From: Marin David Condic <nobody@noplace.com>
Subject: Software vs Hardware productivity (was: Re: Clause "with and use")
Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 13:49:25 GMT
Date: 2003-11-02T13:49:25+00:00 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <3FA50B5D.9040504@noplace.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: Bn7pb.37215$294.8471@nwrdny03.gnilink.net
Well, that's just a matter of "features" if you will. Building a larger
"device" - whatever that device may be - is always going to be more time
consuming than building a smaller one. Microprocessors have become
bigger and that probably means they take more time to design than
smaller ones. But if you say "Last month, there was a chip with 100_000
transistors on it and this month the same team built one with 1_000_000
transistors on it..." does that make the design team 10 times more
"productive"? Not necessarily. Did they have to design each of those
transistors individually, or did they just redesign *one* transistor to
make it smaller, then wire up ten times as many of them into a bigger
device?
To be fair, a parallel might be that you write a subroutine that is
called in a loop 100_000 times and this is as much work as it can do in
the alloted time span. Then you do some redesign of the subroutine to
chop out some instructions and suddenly, you can execute it 1_000_000
times in the same time span. Or your program had an array that held
100_000 elements and, because you got a bigger box, you tweaked a
constant and in a cocaine heartbeat you got 1_000_000 elements into the
array. Were you suddenly 10x more productive than the first time?
Probably not.
There just is no fair comparison of software design to hardware design
if you're looking at the amount of features on a chip versus the amount
of features in a software system. The chip designer can *design* one
feature and duplicate it a million times - creating a million features.
The software designer has to design each individual feature - otherwise
its just a generic or a subroutine - which isn't counted the same way as
a NAND gate or a barrel shifter or an adder or a memory cell is in the
silicon world.
Actually, I suspect that if software designers could take credit for
"features" in the same way that hardware designers do, we'd end up
showing similar, if not way more productivity gains. When I pop a window
up on a screen, can I take credit for the number of pixels I've just
disturbed? That's no different than a memory chip designer taking credit
for the number of memory cells he created in his design. Programs I
build years ago used to occupy less than 64k of memory and because of
improvements in technology, etc., I can now build a program that exceeds
a megabyte without hardly breaking a sweat. Isn't that more "productive"
in the same sort of units a hardware designer might get measured?
MDC
Stephane Richard wrote:
>
> I hear ya. If you take that to the programming world, the easier you want
> an application to be for it's user the more design (and cosequently
> programming) it needs. Plain and simple. :-)
>
--
======================================================================
Marin David Condic
I work for: http://www.belcan.com/
My project is: http://www.jsf.mil/NSFrames.htm
Send Replies To: m o d c @ a m o g
c n i c . r
"So if I understand 'The Matrix Reloaded' correctly, the Matrix is
basically a Microsoft operating system - it runs for a while and
then crashes and reboots. By design, no less. Neo is just a
memory leak that's too hard to fix, so they left him in... The
users don't complain because they're packed in slush and kept
sedated"
-- Marin D. Condic
======================================================================
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2003-11-02 13:49 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 382+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2003-10-31 21:02 Clause "with and use" Gautier Write-only
2003-10-31 21:51 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-31 22:29 ` Randy Brukardt
2003-11-01 13:39 ` Gautier Write-only
2003-11-01 14:32 ` Marius Amado Alves
2003-11-01 16:23 ` Gautier Write-only
2003-11-01 19:59 ` Marius Amado Alves
2003-11-01 3:39 ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2003-11-02 12:03 ` Stephane Richard
2003-11-03 2:26 ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2003-11-01 4:07 ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2003-11-03 8:22 ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2003-11-03 17:37 ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2003-11-01 7:09 ` Russ
2003-11-01 10:29 ` Pascal Obry
2003-11-01 11:57 ` Marius Amado Alves
2003-11-01 13:24 ` Gautier Write-only
2003-11-01 22:12 ` Pascal Obry
2003-11-02 10:45 ` Stephane Richard
2003-11-02 11:34 ` Preben Randhol
2003-11-02 12:04 ` Stephane Richard
2003-11-02 13:03 ` Marin David Condic
2003-11-02 13:10 ` Stephane Richard
2003-11-02 13:49 ` Marin David Condic [this message]
[not found] ` <pn4g71-ned.ln1@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
2003-11-02 22:25 ` Marin David Condic
2003-11-04 17:25 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-11-03 14:36 ` Preben Randhol
2003-11-04 9:57 ` Marin David Condic
2003-11-04 11:22 ` Preben Randhol
2003-11-04 12:45 ` Marin David Condic
2003-11-04 15:46 ` Wes Groleau
2003-11-04 16:08 ` Marius Amado Alves
2003-11-06 10:10 ` Preben Randhol
2003-11-18 0:07 ` Brian Gaffney
2003-11-18 1:25 ` Stephane Richard
2003-11-18 8:50 ` Marius Amado Alves
2003-11-18 10:43 ` Preben Randhol
2003-11-18 10:58 ` Marius Amado Alves
2003-11-18 11:33 ` Preben Randhol
2003-11-18 12:11 ` Marius Amado Alves
2003-11-18 13:46 ` Preben Randhol
2003-11-20 3:53 ` Brian Gaffney
2003-11-20 9:20 ` Preben Randhol
2003-11-18 12:33 ` Stephane Richard
2003-11-04 17:37 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-11-05 19:08 ` Russ
2003-11-05 21:11 ` Mark Lorenzen
2003-11-06 3:10 ` Russ
2003-11-06 8:26 ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
2003-11-06 18:52 ` Russ
2003-11-06 20:03 ` Martin Dowie
2003-11-07 0:22 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-11-07 7:02 ` Martin Dowie
2003-11-07 19:04 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-11-07 19:23 ` Martin Dowie
2003-11-07 19:38 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-11-07 22:46 ` Martin Dowie
2003-11-09 6:49 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-11-07 5:04 ` Russ
2003-11-07 20:31 ` Russ
2003-11-07 22:59 ` Martin Dowie
2003-11-07 23:33 ` Martin Dowie
2003-11-08 8:22 ` Russ
2003-11-08 9:04 ` Martin Dowie
2003-11-09 6:59 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-11-09 14:27 ` Martin Dowie
2003-11-10 7:47 ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
2003-11-06 11:53 ` Stephane Richard
2003-11-06 13:36 ` Marin David Condic
2003-11-07 1:15 ` Stephane Richard
2003-11-07 0:09 ` Mark Lorenzen
2003-11-05 21:20 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-11-05 21:48 ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2003-11-03 5:59 ` Russ
2003-11-03 14:32 ` Preben Randhol
2003-11-03 22:11 ` Gautier Write-only
2003-11-04 10:58 ` Preben Randhol
2003-11-04 13:16 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-11-04 15:09 ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
2003-11-04 15:49 ` Wes Groleau
2003-11-06 10:55 ` Preben Randhol
2003-11-06 13:03 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-11-06 15:35 ` Preben Randhol
2003-11-06 17:26 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-11-06 20:38 ` Gautier Write-only
2003-11-06 21:12 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-11-07 7:08 ` Russ
2003-11-07 8:48 ` Preben Randhol
2003-11-08 10:56 ` Gautier Write-only
2003-11-08 11:35 ` Preben Randhol
2003-11-11 22:28 ` Gautier Write-only
2003-11-12 12:42 ` Preben Randhol
2003-11-08 19:40 ` Russ
2003-11-10 7:38 ` Preben Randhol
2003-11-10 13:03 ` Marin David Condic
2003-11-10 13:19 ` Preben Randhol
2003-11-10 13:38 ` Marin David Condic
2003-11-11 7:20 ` Russ
2003-11-11 8:12 ` Preben Randhol
2003-11-11 19:43 ` Russ
2003-11-12 12:35 ` Preben Randhol
2003-11-11 8:31 ` Preben Randhol
2003-11-11 8:57 ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
2003-11-11 10:10 ` Marin David Condic
2003-11-11 10:49 ` Stephane Richard
2003-11-11 14:17 ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
2003-11-11 15:36 ` Wes Groleau
2003-11-11 16:08 ` Preben Randhol
2003-11-11 16:24 ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
2003-11-12 12:01 ` Marin David Condic
2003-11-12 13:07 ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
2003-11-13 12:12 ` Marin David Condic
2003-11-13 17:49 ` Re-Marketing Ada (was "With and use") Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-11-14 5:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-11-17 2:31 ` Russ
2003-11-17 3:04 ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-11-17 12:06 ` Marin David Condic
2003-11-17 12:49 ` Marius Amado Alves
2003-11-17 12:56 ` Stephane Richard
2003-11-17 13:14 ` Marius Amado Alves
2003-11-17 17:31 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-11-18 11:52 ` Marin David Condic
2003-11-17 20:17 ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-11-18 12:31 ` Marin David Condic
2003-11-18 13:19 ` Stephane Richard
2003-11-18 17:38 ` Marin David Condic
2003-11-18 17:11 ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-11-18 17:58 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-11-18 20:00 ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-11-20 2:07 ` Warren Gay
2003-11-18 21:20 ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2003-11-19 17:12 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-11-18 22:42 ` Stephane Richard
2003-11-19 2:25 ` Wes Groleau
2003-11-19 2:38 ` tmoran
2003-11-19 2:53 ` Stephane Richard
2003-11-19 17:18 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-11-19 12:42 ` Marin David Condic
2003-11-19 13:05 ` Stephane Richard
2003-11-20 12:40 ` Marin David Condic
2003-11-20 13:09 ` Stephane Richard
2003-11-20 13:37 ` Marin David Condic
2003-11-19 17:28 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-11-19 21:57 ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-11-20 2:12 ` Warren Gay
2003-11-20 18:27 ` Stephen Leake
2003-11-20 1:39 ` Wes Groleau
2003-11-20 12:57 ` Marin David Condic
2003-11-20 17:47 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-11-21 12:53 ` Marin David Condic
2003-11-21 17:21 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-11-21 19:06 ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-11-22 4:20 ` Warren Gay
2003-11-22 17:06 ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-11-23 2:17 ` Warren Gay
2003-11-25 0:06 ` Re-Marketing Ada (was "With and use") A new project for generating thin bindings Chad R. Meiners
[not found] ` <3FBF774C.2050108@shore.net>
2003-11-21 17:42 ` Re-Marketing Ada (was "With and use") Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-11-19 21:07 ` Wes Groleau
2003-11-20 9:31 ` Preben Randhol
2003-11-19 17:15 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-11-19 17:52 ` Stephen Leake
2003-11-19 18:15 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-11-20 3:03 ` Warren Gay
2003-11-20 12:19 ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2003-11-20 18:01 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-11-21 10:55 ` Generic thinbinding toolkit for C Lutz Donnerhacke
2003-11-21 18:02 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-11-22 4:25 ` Warren Gay
2003-11-22 5:12 ` Warren Gay
2003-11-24 10:20 ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2003-11-17 17:29 ` OT: Nuclear Waste (Was Re-Marketing Ada) Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-11-17 18:01 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-11-20 12:14 ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-11-20 15:14 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-11-20 15:41 ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
2003-11-20 16:40 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-11-20 17:03 ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
2003-11-20 18:59 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-11-21 8:37 ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
2003-11-20 19:26 ` Preben Randhol
2003-11-20 22:55 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-11-21 0:00 ` Jeffrey Carter
2003-11-21 13:25 ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
2003-11-21 16:03 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-11-21 16:31 ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
2003-11-20 16:27 ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-11-20 19:25 ` Preben Randhol
2003-11-20 23:54 ` Larry Elmore
2003-11-21 9:25 ` Preben Randhol
2003-11-21 16:13 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-11-17 18:45 ` Jeffrey Carter
2003-11-17 19:58 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-11-17 21:22 ` Stephane Richard
2003-11-18 18:00 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-11-18 20:02 ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2003-11-19 17:30 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-11-19 20:48 ` Dmytry Lavrov
2003-11-19 21:10 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-11-20 1:34 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-11-20 10:21 ` Dmytry Lavrov
2003-11-20 13:40 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-11-20 18:00 ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2003-11-20 23:47 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-11-21 2:51 ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2003-11-21 9:22 ` Preben Randhol
2003-11-21 16:24 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-11-29 23:22 ` Dmytry Lavrov
2003-11-30 2:33 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-11-30 17:40 ` OT: Relativity ,super-luminal communications and time travel (Was OT: Nuclear Waste (Was Re-Marketing Ada)) Dmytry Lavrov
2003-12-01 3:40 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-12-01 13:02 ` Dmytry Lavrov
2003-12-02 4:38 ` Alexander Kopilovitch
2003-11-20 15:49 ` OT: Nuclear Waste (Was Re-Marketing Ada) Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2003-11-21 12:59 ` Marin David Condic
2003-11-21 15:29 ` Frank J. Lhota
2003-11-24 17:15 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-11-22 12:33 ` Dmytry Lavrov
2003-11-20 6:31 ` Russ
2003-11-20 11:35 ` Dmytry Lavrov
2003-11-20 18:04 ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-11-20 12:49 ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-11-20 13:02 ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
2003-11-20 14:10 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-11-20 16:12 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-11-20 16:11 ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
2003-11-20 18:16 ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-11-21 8:47 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-11-21 9:28 ` Preben Randhol
2003-11-21 12:57 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-11-21 13:25 ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
2003-11-21 14:10 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-11-21 14:24 ` Preben Randhol
2003-11-21 14:36 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-11-21 14:53 ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
2003-11-21 13:57 ` Preben Randhol
2003-11-21 14:00 ` Preben Randhol
2003-11-21 14:27 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-11-20 16:33 ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-11-21 9:05 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-11-21 16:36 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-11-21 17:05 ` Stephane Richard
2003-11-22 10:45 ` Dmytry Lavrov
2003-11-22 10:41 ` Dmytry Lavrov
2003-11-17 23:33 ` Dmytry Lavrov
2003-11-18 0:31 ` Ludovic Brenta
2003-11-18 11:49 ` Dmytry Lavrov
2003-11-18 18:06 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-11-18 7:38 ` Preben Randhol
2003-11-18 7:42 ` Preben Randhol
2003-11-18 7:53 ` Preben Randhol
2003-11-18 16:06 ` Dmytry Lavrov
2003-11-17 22:32 ` Russ
2003-11-18 16:38 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-11-19 5:36 ` Russ
2003-11-19 15:28 ` Dmytry Lavrov
2003-11-19 20:01 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-11-20 9:30 ` Preben Randhol
2003-11-20 14:43 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-11-20 14:55 ` Preben Randhol
2003-11-20 15:24 ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
2003-11-20 19:30 ` Preben Randhol
2003-11-19 15:41 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-11-18 18:12 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-11-18 18:47 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-11-19 0:44 ` Russ
2003-11-19 17:33 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-11-13 22:04 ` Clause "with and use" Wes Groleau
2003-11-14 4:16 ` Marin David Condic
2003-11-12 11:55 ` Marin David Condic
2003-11-12 13:10 ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
2003-11-11 19:49 ` Russ
2003-11-11 20:35 ` Russ
2003-11-11 22:06 ` Mark Lorenzen
2003-11-11 22:08 ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
2003-11-11 22:20 ` Gautier Write-only
2003-11-11 22:38 ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
2003-11-12 12:46 ` Preben Randhol
2003-11-13 7:26 ` Russ
2003-11-13 19:59 ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-11-14 5:09 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-11-14 6:47 ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-11-14 5:45 ` Russ
2003-11-14 7:51 ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-11-14 7:51 ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-11-14 23:23 ` Russ
2003-11-15 4:39 ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-11-15 11:35 ` Stephane Richard
2003-11-15 12:53 ` Marin David Condic
2003-11-16 0:36 ` Russ
2003-11-16 2:38 ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-11-16 0:19 ` Russ
2003-11-16 1:41 ` Stephane Richard
2003-11-16 2:11 ` Frank J. Lhota
2003-11-16 2:28 ` Stephane Richard
2003-11-16 14:04 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-11-16 6:15 ` Russ
2003-11-16 14:00 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-11-16 13:56 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-11-15 22:12 ` Russ
2003-11-16 2:29 ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-11-16 7:01 ` Russ
2003-11-16 20:02 ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-11-17 2:34 ` Way off topic was: " Robert I. Eachus
2003-11-17 21:12 ` Russ
2003-11-17 21:29 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-11-17 23:28 ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2003-11-17 23:19 ` Wes Groleau
2003-11-15 15:19 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-11-15 16:15 ` Gautier Write-only
2003-11-15 19:44 ` Frank J. Lhota
2003-11-16 0:02 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-11-16 10:41 ` Gautier Write-only
2003-11-17 9:04 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-11-17 14:38 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-11-17 19:40 ` Russ
2003-11-18 17:01 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-11-18 8:35 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-11-16 5:55 ` Russ
2003-11-16 19:31 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-11-17 1:34 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-11-15 16:40 ` Gautier Write-only
2003-11-16 0:25 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-11-16 1:20 ` Wes Groleau
2003-11-16 14:59 ` Gautier Write-only
2003-11-16 19:39 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-11-16 21:04 ` Wes Groleau
2003-11-16 10:19 ` Gautier Write-only
2003-11-14 7:51 ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-11-11 22:30 ` Stephane Richard
2003-11-11 22:54 ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
2003-11-11 14:35 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-11-11 15:04 ` Preben Randhol
2003-11-11 20:01 ` Russ
2003-11-12 12:41 ` Preben Randhol
2003-11-13 6:27 ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-11-13 7:32 ` Anders Wirzenius
2003-11-13 12:29 ` Marin David Condic
2003-11-13 17:51 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-11-14 8:32 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-11-14 14:51 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-11-17 9:22 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-11-17 16:42 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-11-18 8:49 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-11-19 17:46 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-11-20 8:26 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-11-14 20:44 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-11-14 9:05 ` Anders Wirzenius
2003-11-14 12:37 ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-11-14 15:18 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-11-15 13:04 ` Marin David Condic
2003-11-18 22:45 ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-11-11 15:36 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-11-11 19:46 ` Eachus' Measure of Goodness (was: Clause "with and use") Jeffrey Carter
2003-11-12 16:08 ` Eachus' Measure of Goodness Robert I. Eachus
2003-11-12 17:24 ` Stephane Richard
2003-11-12 17:37 ` tmoran
2003-11-13 3:04 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-11-13 5:17 ` Jeffrey Carter
2003-11-13 6:28 ` Mark A. Biggar
2003-11-13 9:53 ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2003-11-13 6:37 ` Clause "with and use" Chad R. Meiners
2003-11-13 19:11 ` tmoran
2003-11-14 4:57 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-11-14 7:05 ` tmoran
2003-11-14 15:06 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-11-14 15:15 ` Robert Spooner
2003-11-14 15:54 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-11-11 16:24 ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
2003-11-11 17:36 ` Stephane Richard
2003-11-08 20:08 ` Russ
2003-11-09 4:23 ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2003-11-07 15:54 ` Frank J. Lhota
2003-11-06 22:42 ` Dale Stanbrough
2003-11-03 15:35 ` Stephane Richard
2003-11-03 16:26 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-11-04 7:28 ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
2003-11-03 22:04 ` Gautier Write-only
2003-11-03 10:47 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-11-03 16:30 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-11-03 22:07 ` Gautier Write-only
2003-11-04 7:28 ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
2003-11-06 20:12 ` Gautier Write-only
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