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From: Marin David Condic <nobody@noplace.com>
Subject: Re: += in ada
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 01:35:28 GMT
Date: 2003-10-21T01:35:28+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <3F948D58.8090605@noplace.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 1066673017.140846@master.nyc.kbcfp.com

Sometimes it is neccessary - either you do a hand optimization or you 
drop the project. (Been there. Done that. Same processor as the Ariane 
5, BTW)

But the point ought to be that in the overwhelming bulk of applications, 
this is not necessary. Most of the time, what the compiler does is 
*better* and one should leave it alone. Once in a great while, you are 
so bound by time, you *must* turn off all checks, struggle for every 
optimization, etc. This is just extremely rare and should not be 
undertaken lightly.

Also, it was never clear to me that leaving in the checks would have 
saved the Ariane 5. After all, the software did exactly what it was 
designed to do. It detected a fault, presumed it was a hardware failure 
and shut down the channel. Had the overflow been trapped by an exception 
handler instead of the hardware interrupt, the decision would have been 
the same. The FDA was correct for the Ariane 4. Just that in the Ariane 
5, it wasn't a "Failure" so the "Detection" and "Accommodation" was the 
wrong thing.

MDC



Hyman Rosen wrote:
> 
> Then the Ariane 4 people counted the cycles.
> You were claiming that Ada people believe that this sort
> of micro-efficiency is in the domain of the compiler, and
> I am pointing you at a prominent real-life project where
> this was not the case.
> 


-- 
======================================================================
Marin David Condic
I work for: http://www.belcan.com/
My project is: http://www.jsf.mil/NSFrames.htm

Send Replies To: m c o n d i c @ a c m . o r g

     "All reformers, however strict their social conscience,
      live in houses just as big as they can pay for."

          --Logan Pearsall Smith
======================================================================




  reply	other threads:[~2003-10-21  1:35 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 303+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2003-09-25 16:25 += in ada Dmytry Lavrov
2003-10-01  8:35 ` Peter Amey
2003-10-01 12:38   ` Frank J. Lhota
2003-10-03 16:22     ` Isaac Gouy
2003-10-06 20:21       ` Russ
2003-10-06 22:47         ` (see below)
2003-10-04 20:17   ` Craig Carey
2003-10-06  7:36     ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2003-10-06  8:13       ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2003-10-06 22:49       ` Wes Groleau
2003-10-01 14:06 ` Gautier
2003-10-02 12:26   ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2003-10-02 13:03     ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-02 13:36       ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2003-10-02 21:28         ` Keith Thompson
2003-10-07  0:41           ` Russ
2003-10-07 10:05             ` Dmytry Lavrov
2003-10-07 11:56               ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2003-10-07 14:02                 ` (see below)
2003-10-07 22:22                   ` Russ
2003-10-07 23:52                     ` (see below)
2003-10-08  6:08                     ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-09 19:07                       ` Russ
2003-10-09 19:42                         ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
     [not found]                           ` <25oh51-uu2.ln1@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
2003-10-10  7:37                             ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-10 18:56                               ` Russ
2003-10-11  8:10                                 ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-11  8:30                                 ` Samuel Tardieu
2003-10-10 12:09                             ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
2003-10-10  7:34                         ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-12  0:50                           ` Wes Groleau
2003-10-12  8:24                             ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-12 14:57                               ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-12 18:37                                 ` (see below)
2003-10-13  0:42                                   ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-13  8:32                                     ` Dmytry Lavrov
2003-10-13 19:18                                       ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-13 23:36                                     ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2003-10-14  6:14                                       ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
2003-10-14 15:19                                         ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-30 21:43                                     ` ARG process (was += in ada) Randy Brukardt
2003-10-30 23:21                                       ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-10 20:31                         ` += in ada Dmytry Lavrov
2003-10-12  8:23                           ` Dmytry Lavrov
2003-10-14 18:00                           ` Russ
2003-10-14 18:15                             ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
2003-10-15 12:50                             ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-10-15 13:25                               ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-15 14:04                                 ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
2003-10-15 15:19                                   ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-15 18:06                                     ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
2003-10-15 18:53                                       ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-15 19:34                                         ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
2003-10-15 23:09                                         ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2003-10-16  5:05                                     ` Russ
2003-10-16 12:07                                       ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-16 13:43                                       ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-16 23:57                                         ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-17  6:22                                           ` Russ
2003-10-17  6:38                                             ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-17 15:48                                             ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-19  1:15                                               ` Russ
2003-10-19 16:04                                                 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-19 23:59                                                   ` Russ
2003-10-20  5:24                                                     ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-10-20  5:52                                                       ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-20 12:40                                                         ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-20 14:36                                                           ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-21  0:23                                                           ` Wes Groleau
2003-10-21  3:46                                                             ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-21  6:37                                                           ` Russ
2003-10-21 10:10                                                             ` Marius Amado Alves
2003-10-22  5:23                                                               ` Russ
2003-10-20 14:34                                                         ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-21  7:43                                                         ` Russ
2003-10-21 12:45                                                           ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2003-10-22  7:13                                                             ` Russ
2003-10-22  8:48                                                               ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
2003-10-22  9:02                                                               ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2003-10-22 18:21                                                                 ` Russ
2003-10-22 19:10                                                                   ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
2003-10-23  5:24                                                                     ` + " Russ
2003-10-22 19:16                                                                   ` += " sk
2003-10-22 19:13                                                                     ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
2003-10-23  5:16                                                                     ` Russ
2003-10-23  5:45                                                                       ` sk
2003-10-22 21:22                                                                 ` Russ
2003-10-23  2:23                                                                   ` Wes Groleau
2003-10-22  9:46                                                               ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-22  8:01                                                             ` Russ
2003-10-21 13:38                                                           ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-22  7:24                                                             ` Russ
2003-10-22 19:50                                                               ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-23  5:34                                                                 ` Russ
2003-10-23 14:14                                                                   ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-24  9:15                                                                     ` Peter Hermann
2003-10-24 10:11                                                                       ` Marius Amado Alves
2003-10-26  7:35                                                                         ` Pascal Obry
2003-10-24 11:20                                                                       ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-25  3:14                                                                       ` Russ
2003-10-25  5:07                                                                     ` Russ
2003-10-19 23:19                                                 ` Robert A Duff
2003-10-20  6:16                                                   ` Russ
2003-10-20 14:31                                                     ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-20 17:10                                                     ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-20 17:53                                                       ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-20 19:11                                                         ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-20 19:32                                                           ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-20 23:24                                                           ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2003-10-21  0:40                                                     ` Wes Groleau
2003-10-21  3:45                                                       ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-21 12:07                                                         ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-21 12:18                                                           ` Marius Amado Alves
2003-10-21 12:45                                                         ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-21 14:46                                                           ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-21 17:54                                                             ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-10-21 20:23                                                               ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-22  0:18                                                             ` Wes Groleau
2003-10-22  4:07                                                               ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-22 20:41                                                                 ` Wes Groleau
2003-10-22 11:56                                                             ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-22  0:14                                                           ` Wes Groleau
2003-10-22 12:31                                                             ` Early Ada Mistakes (was: Re: += in ada) Marin David Condic
2003-10-22 20:05                                                               ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-23  4:47                                                                 ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-23 14:36                                                                   ` Early Ada Mistakes Hyman Rosen
2003-10-23 19:04                                                                     ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-10-24 13:33                                                                       ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-24 16:59                                                                         ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-23 19:08                                                                     ` Wes Groleau
2003-10-23 22:17                                                                       ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-24 11:26                                                                       ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-23 18:50                                                                   ` Wes Groleau
2003-10-22 21:00                                                               ` Wes Groleau
2003-10-23  4:53                                                                 ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-22  6:56                                                           ` += in ada Russ
2003-10-22  7:26                                                             ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-22 11:27                                                             ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-22 20:12                                                               ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-22 20:52                                                             ` Wes Groleau
     [not found]                                                         ` <emte61-d03.ln1@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
2003-10-21 12:57                                                           ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-21  2:43                                                 ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2003-10-21  9:39                                                   ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-19 22:26                                               ` Wes Groleau
2003-10-16  4:31                                   ` + " Russ
2003-10-16  8:57                                     ` += " Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
2003-10-16 20:56                                     ` + " Georg Bauhaus
2003-10-16  4:04                               ` += " Russ
2003-10-16  8:57                                 ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
2003-10-17  3:03                                 ` Wes Groleau
2003-10-17 11:46                                   ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-17 11:50                                     ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-17 12:40                                       ` sk
2003-10-17 12:48                                         ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-15 14:16                             ` Dmytry Lavrov
2003-10-16  5:40                               ` Russ
2003-10-16 12:45                                 ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2003-10-16 22:07                                   ` Russ
2003-10-17  9:10                                     ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2003-10-16 13:48                                 ` Dmytry Lavrov
2003-10-16 20:46                                 ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-10-17  2:37                                   ` Russ
2003-10-17  3:01                                     ` sk
2003-10-17  5:42                                       ` Russ
2003-10-17 11:26                                         ` sk
2003-10-17 20:24                                           ` Dmytry Lavrov
2003-10-17  3:52                                     ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-10-17  6:32                                     ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-17  8:48                                     ` Dmytry Lavrov
2003-10-16  1:25                             ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-10-19 23:50                               ` Robert A Duff
2003-10-20  5:52                                 ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-10-07 18:28                 ` Alexander Kopilovitch
2003-10-10 19:56                   ` Dmytry Lavrov
2003-10-20  7:41       ` idem (Was: += in ada) Jacob Sparre Andersen
2003-10-20  8:28         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-10-20  8:34         ` (see below)
2003-10-31 22:40         ` Nick Roberts
2003-10-14  9:52   ` += in ada Stuart Palin
2003-10-16  8:49     ` Russ
2003-10-16 12:46       ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2003-10-16 13:46         ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-16 15:42           ` Mark A. Biggar
2003-10-16 16:48             ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-17  0:26               ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-17  1:26                 ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-17  3:59                   ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-10-17 11:54                     ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-17 20:35                       ` Russ
2003-10-19 22:22                     ` Wes Groleau
2003-10-19  1:37                   ` Russ
2003-10-19  3:16                     ` sk
2003-10-19 14:10                     ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-19 14:29                     ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-20  2:47                       ` Russ
2003-10-20  3:03                         ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
2003-10-20  5:47                         ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-10-20 12:56                           ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-20  6:19                         ` Ross Higson
2003-10-21 17:30                           ` Russ
2003-10-21 18:40                             ` sk
2003-10-22  7:35                               ` Russ
2003-10-21 23:28                             ` Ross Higson
2003-10-21 23:55                               ` Jerry Petrey
2003-10-22  7:35                             ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-20 16:30                         ` Martin Dowie
2003-10-20 17:05                           ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-20 17:46                             ` Martin Dowie
2003-10-20 18:01                               ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-21  0:57                           ` Wes Groleau
2003-10-21  1:46                             ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-21  3:38                             ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-21  8:49                             ` Martin Dowie
2003-10-21  9:04                             ` Marius Amado Alves
2003-10-21 13:00                               ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-21 13:37                                 ` Marius Amado Alves
2003-10-21 14:50                                   ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-21 15:01                                     ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-21 15:03                                     ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-21 15:07                                     ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
2003-10-21 15:13                                       ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-21 15:58                                       ` (see below)
2003-10-21 15:24                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-10-21 16:44                                     ` Marius Amado Alves
2003-10-22  7:32                                     ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-22  8:48                                       ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
2003-10-22 20:24                                         ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-27 12:01                                           ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
2003-10-27 17:31                                             ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-21 13:01                               ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-21  4:49                           ` sk
2003-10-21 21:19                             ` Simon Wright
2003-10-22  4:37                               ` sk
2003-10-19 14:40                     ` chris
2003-10-19 15:12                     ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-19 16:26                     ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-20  2:02                       ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-20  6:12                         ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-20 12:50                           ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-20 17:53                             ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-20 18:03                               ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-21  1:35                                 ` Marin David Condic [this message]
2003-10-21  3:05                             ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2003-10-21  3:30                               ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-21 13:22                                 ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2003-10-21 15:02                                   ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-19 21:09                     ` Dmytry Lavrov
2003-10-17 14:15                 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-17 14:40                   ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2003-10-17 15:40                     ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-17 15:49                       ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2003-10-17 20:43                         ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-17 16:02                       ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-17 16:06                         ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-19 22:36                         ` Wes Groleau
2003-10-18  0:08                   ` Russ
2003-10-18 10:31                     ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-10-20  5:35                   ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-10-20 13:00                     ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-20 14:27                       ` (see below)
2003-10-20 15:58                         ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-10-16 21:53             ` Russ
2003-10-17  8:20           ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2003-10-17 14:21             ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-17 14:42               ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2003-10-17 15:46                 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-17 15:35               ` Larry Kilgallen
2003-10-17 16:02               ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-17 17:20                 ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-10-16  8:57     ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2003-10-01  8:54 christoph.grein
2003-10-04 12:51 ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-10-13  9:22 christoph.grein
2003-10-13 18:38 ` Wes Groleau
2003-10-13 18:59   ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-16  8:25 + " Lionel.DRAGHI
2003-10-16 13:22 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-16 14:30   ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
2003-10-16 16:13 ` Russ
2003-10-16 21:47   ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-10-17 20:03     ` Russ
2003-10-16 15:55 Lionel.DRAGHI
2003-10-17  8:58 Lionel.DRAGHI
2003-10-20 10:42 += " christoph.grein
2003-10-21  6:16 ` Russ
2003-10-21  8:25   ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2003-10-21  8:40 += in Ada Marius Amado Alves
2003-10-21  8:41 += in ada christoph.grein
2003-10-22  5:00 ` Russ
2003-10-21  8:53 christoph.grein
2003-10-21 13:48 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2003-10-22  7:31   ` Russ
2003-10-22  8:02     ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-22 11:41       ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-22 15:17       ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-10-22 15:47         ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-22 15:07     ` Martin Dowie
2003-10-21 10:03 christoph.grein
     [not found] <1066725615.2801.26.camel@localhost.localdomain>
2003-10-21 11:57 ` += in Ada sk
2003-10-21 12:07 += in ada christoph.grein
2003-10-21 13:51 ` Preben Randhol
     [not found] <3F957DAD.2020801@myob.com>
2003-10-21 21:16 ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
     [not found] ` <nSp8Qb_KxF@vib.usr.pu.ru>
2003-10-21 21:40   ` sk
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