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From: "Robert I. Eachus" <rieachus@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: += in ada
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 00:26:35 GMT
Date: 2003-10-17T00:26:35+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <3F8F372D.9040801@comcast.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 1066322883.139702@master.nyc.kbcfp.com

Hyman Rosen wrote:

> In C++, I can say A += B, and then I don't need the temporary. If I say 
> A = B + C, then I do. But Ada forces you to say A = A + b for the first
>  case, and that gives you the temporary that you don't need.

Which makes Ada better for most common CPUs today, right?  In a 
processor with register renaming and OoO execution, which all Pentiums 
since the Pentium Pro and all Celerons, Athlons, and Durons have, 
register pressure can be caused by a lack of register names, but not 
registers.  So in (pseudo)code like
    load R1,A
    add R1,B
    store R1,A
the CPU will actually use a pair of renaming registers to represent R1 
in this code fragment.  And no matter whether you use the "Ada" approach 
or the "C++" approach to defining the sequence, you will still use two 
renaming registers and one register name to implement the code.  (Oh, 
and the time to execute the code will probably be dominated by the time 
to fetch A and B if they are not already in registers or L1 cache.)

Modern CPUs are so far from the finite state machines you may have been 
taught about in some Assembler class that it isn't even funny.  I 
usually say that modern processors have lots of circutry devoted to 
confusing anyone who tries to debug software using a debugger.  The 
problem is not just that the states you see in the debugger don't exist 
when your code is running normally, no states corresponding to the ISA 
exist when the processor is running normally.  In fact, no states at all 
exist when the processor is running.  If you tell the processor to 
create some sort of a state and push it on the stack it will do that. 
Just remember that the state you see was manufactured this way because 
you asked the processor to do so.
-- 
                                        Robert I. Eachus

"Quality is the Buddha. Quality is scientific reality. Quality is the 
goal of Art. It remains to work these concepts into a practical, 
down-to-earth context, and for this there is nothing more practical or 
down-to-earth than what I have been talking about all along...the repair 
of an old motorcycle."  -- from Zen and the Art of Motorcycle 
Maintenance by Robert Pirsig




  reply	other threads:[~2003-10-17  0:26 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 303+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2003-09-25 16:25 += in ada Dmytry Lavrov
2003-10-01  8:35 ` Peter Amey
2003-10-01 12:38   ` Frank J. Lhota
2003-10-03 16:22     ` Isaac Gouy
2003-10-06 20:21       ` Russ
2003-10-06 22:47         ` (see below)
2003-10-04 20:17   ` Craig Carey
2003-10-06  7:36     ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2003-10-06  8:13       ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2003-10-06 22:49       ` Wes Groleau
2003-10-01 14:06 ` Gautier
2003-10-02 12:26   ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2003-10-02 13:03     ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-02 13:36       ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2003-10-02 21:28         ` Keith Thompson
2003-10-07  0:41           ` Russ
2003-10-07 10:05             ` Dmytry Lavrov
2003-10-07 11:56               ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2003-10-07 14:02                 ` (see below)
2003-10-07 22:22                   ` Russ
2003-10-07 23:52                     ` (see below)
2003-10-08  6:08                     ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-09 19:07                       ` Russ
2003-10-09 19:42                         ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
     [not found]                           ` <25oh51-uu2.ln1@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
2003-10-10  7:37                             ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-10 18:56                               ` Russ
2003-10-11  8:10                                 ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-11  8:30                                 ` Samuel Tardieu
2003-10-10 12:09                             ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
2003-10-10  7:34                         ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-12  0:50                           ` Wes Groleau
2003-10-12  8:24                             ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-12 14:57                               ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-12 18:37                                 ` (see below)
2003-10-13  0:42                                   ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-13  8:32                                     ` Dmytry Lavrov
2003-10-13 19:18                                       ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-13 23:36                                     ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2003-10-14  6:14                                       ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
2003-10-14 15:19                                         ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-30 21:43                                     ` ARG process (was += in ada) Randy Brukardt
2003-10-30 23:21                                       ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-10 20:31                         ` += in ada Dmytry Lavrov
2003-10-12  8:23                           ` Dmytry Lavrov
2003-10-14 18:00                           ` Russ
2003-10-14 18:15                             ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
2003-10-15 12:50                             ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-10-15 13:25                               ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-15 14:04                                 ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
2003-10-15 15:19                                   ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-15 18:06                                     ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
2003-10-15 18:53                                       ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-15 19:34                                         ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
2003-10-15 23:09                                         ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2003-10-16  5:05                                     ` Russ
2003-10-16 12:07                                       ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-16 13:43                                       ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-16 23:57                                         ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-17  6:22                                           ` Russ
2003-10-17  6:38                                             ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-17 15:48                                             ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-19  1:15                                               ` Russ
2003-10-19 16:04                                                 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-19 23:59                                                   ` Russ
2003-10-20  5:24                                                     ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-10-20  5:52                                                       ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-20 12:40                                                         ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-20 14:36                                                           ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-21  0:23                                                           ` Wes Groleau
2003-10-21  3:46                                                             ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-21  6:37                                                           ` Russ
2003-10-21 10:10                                                             ` Marius Amado Alves
2003-10-22  5:23                                                               ` Russ
2003-10-20 14:34                                                         ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-21  7:43                                                         ` Russ
2003-10-21 12:45                                                           ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2003-10-22  7:13                                                             ` Russ
2003-10-22  8:48                                                               ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
2003-10-22  9:02                                                               ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2003-10-22 18:21                                                                 ` Russ
2003-10-22 19:10                                                                   ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
2003-10-23  5:24                                                                     ` + " Russ
2003-10-22 19:16                                                                   ` += " sk
2003-10-22 19:13                                                                     ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
2003-10-23  5:16                                                                     ` Russ
2003-10-23  5:45                                                                       ` sk
2003-10-22 21:22                                                                 ` Russ
2003-10-23  2:23                                                                   ` Wes Groleau
2003-10-22  9:46                                                               ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-22  8:01                                                             ` Russ
2003-10-21 13:38                                                           ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-22  7:24                                                             ` Russ
2003-10-22 19:50                                                               ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-23  5:34                                                                 ` Russ
2003-10-23 14:14                                                                   ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-24  9:15                                                                     ` Peter Hermann
2003-10-24 10:11                                                                       ` Marius Amado Alves
2003-10-26  7:35                                                                         ` Pascal Obry
2003-10-24 11:20                                                                       ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-25  3:14                                                                       ` Russ
2003-10-25  5:07                                                                     ` Russ
2003-10-19 23:19                                                 ` Robert A Duff
2003-10-20  6:16                                                   ` Russ
2003-10-20 14:31                                                     ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-20 17:10                                                     ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-20 17:53                                                       ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-20 19:11                                                         ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-20 19:32                                                           ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-20 23:24                                                           ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2003-10-21  0:40                                                     ` Wes Groleau
2003-10-21  3:45                                                       ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-21 12:07                                                         ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-21 12:18                                                           ` Marius Amado Alves
2003-10-21 12:45                                                         ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-21 14:46                                                           ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-21 17:54                                                             ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-10-21 20:23                                                               ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-22  0:18                                                             ` Wes Groleau
2003-10-22  4:07                                                               ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-22 20:41                                                                 ` Wes Groleau
2003-10-22 11:56                                                             ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-22  0:14                                                           ` Wes Groleau
2003-10-22 12:31                                                             ` Early Ada Mistakes (was: Re: += in ada) Marin David Condic
2003-10-22 20:05                                                               ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-23  4:47                                                                 ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-23 14:36                                                                   ` Early Ada Mistakes Hyman Rosen
2003-10-23 19:04                                                                     ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-10-24 13:33                                                                       ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-24 16:59                                                                         ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-23 19:08                                                                     ` Wes Groleau
2003-10-23 22:17                                                                       ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-24 11:26                                                                       ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-23 18:50                                                                   ` Wes Groleau
2003-10-22 21:00                                                               ` Wes Groleau
2003-10-23  4:53                                                                 ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-22  6:56                                                           ` += in ada Russ
2003-10-22  7:26                                                             ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-22 11:27                                                             ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-22 20:12                                                               ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-22 20:52                                                             ` Wes Groleau
     [not found]                                                         ` <emte61-d03.ln1@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
2003-10-21 12:57                                                           ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-21  2:43                                                 ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2003-10-21  9:39                                                   ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-19 22:26                                               ` Wes Groleau
2003-10-16  4:31                                   ` + " Russ
2003-10-16  8:57                                     ` += " Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
2003-10-16 20:56                                     ` + " Georg Bauhaus
2003-10-16  4:04                               ` += " Russ
2003-10-16  8:57                                 ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
2003-10-17  3:03                                 ` Wes Groleau
2003-10-17 11:46                                   ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-17 11:50                                     ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-17 12:40                                       ` sk
2003-10-17 12:48                                         ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-15 14:16                             ` Dmytry Lavrov
2003-10-16  5:40                               ` Russ
2003-10-16 12:45                                 ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2003-10-16 22:07                                   ` Russ
2003-10-17  9:10                                     ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2003-10-16 13:48                                 ` Dmytry Lavrov
2003-10-16 20:46                                 ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-10-17  2:37                                   ` Russ
2003-10-17  3:01                                     ` sk
2003-10-17  5:42                                       ` Russ
2003-10-17 11:26                                         ` sk
2003-10-17 20:24                                           ` Dmytry Lavrov
2003-10-17  3:52                                     ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-10-17  6:32                                     ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-17  8:48                                     ` Dmytry Lavrov
2003-10-16  1:25                             ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-10-19 23:50                               ` Robert A Duff
2003-10-20  5:52                                 ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-10-07 18:28                 ` Alexander Kopilovitch
2003-10-10 19:56                   ` Dmytry Lavrov
2003-10-20  7:41       ` idem (Was: += in ada) Jacob Sparre Andersen
2003-10-20  8:28         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-10-20  8:34         ` (see below)
2003-10-31 22:40         ` Nick Roberts
2003-10-14  9:52   ` += in ada Stuart Palin
2003-10-16  8:49     ` Russ
2003-10-16 12:46       ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2003-10-16 13:46         ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-16 15:42           ` Mark A. Biggar
2003-10-16 16:48             ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-17  0:26               ` Robert I. Eachus [this message]
2003-10-17  1:26                 ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-17  3:59                   ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-10-17 11:54                     ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-17 20:35                       ` Russ
2003-10-19 22:22                     ` Wes Groleau
2003-10-19  1:37                   ` Russ
2003-10-19  3:16                     ` sk
2003-10-19 14:10                     ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-19 14:29                     ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-20  2:47                       ` Russ
2003-10-20  3:03                         ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
2003-10-20  5:47                         ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-10-20 12:56                           ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-20  6:19                         ` Ross Higson
2003-10-21 17:30                           ` Russ
2003-10-21 18:40                             ` sk
2003-10-22  7:35                               ` Russ
2003-10-21 23:28                             ` Ross Higson
2003-10-21 23:55                               ` Jerry Petrey
2003-10-22  7:35                             ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-20 16:30                         ` Martin Dowie
2003-10-20 17:05                           ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-20 17:46                             ` Martin Dowie
2003-10-20 18:01                               ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-21  0:57                           ` Wes Groleau
2003-10-21  1:46                             ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-21  3:38                             ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-21  8:49                             ` Martin Dowie
2003-10-21  9:04                             ` Marius Amado Alves
2003-10-21 13:00                               ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-21 13:37                                 ` Marius Amado Alves
2003-10-21 14:50                                   ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-21 15:01                                     ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-21 15:03                                     ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-21 15:07                                     ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
2003-10-21 15:13                                       ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-21 15:58                                       ` (see below)
2003-10-21 15:24                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-10-21 16:44                                     ` Marius Amado Alves
2003-10-22  7:32                                     ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-22  8:48                                       ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
2003-10-22 20:24                                         ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-27 12:01                                           ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
2003-10-27 17:31                                             ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-21 13:01                               ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-21  4:49                           ` sk
2003-10-21 21:19                             ` Simon Wright
2003-10-22  4:37                               ` sk
2003-10-19 14:40                     ` chris
2003-10-19 15:12                     ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-19 16:26                     ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-20  2:02                       ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-20  6:12                         ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-20 12:50                           ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-20 17:53                             ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-20 18:03                               ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-21  1:35                                 ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-21  3:05                             ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2003-10-21  3:30                               ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-21 13:22                                 ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2003-10-21 15:02                                   ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-19 21:09                     ` Dmytry Lavrov
2003-10-17 14:15                 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-17 14:40                   ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2003-10-17 15:40                     ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-17 15:49                       ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2003-10-17 20:43                         ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-17 16:02                       ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-17 16:06                         ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-19 22:36                         ` Wes Groleau
2003-10-18  0:08                   ` Russ
2003-10-18 10:31                     ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-10-20  5:35                   ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-10-20 13:00                     ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-20 14:27                       ` (see below)
2003-10-20 15:58                         ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-10-16 21:53             ` Russ
2003-10-17  8:20           ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2003-10-17 14:21             ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-17 14:42               ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2003-10-17 15:46                 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-17 15:35               ` Larry Kilgallen
2003-10-17 16:02               ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-17 17:20                 ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-10-16  8:57     ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2003-10-01  8:54 christoph.grein
2003-10-04 12:51 ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-10-13  9:22 christoph.grein
2003-10-13 18:38 ` Wes Groleau
2003-10-13 18:59   ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-16  8:25 + " Lionel.DRAGHI
2003-10-16 13:22 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-16 14:30   ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
2003-10-16 16:13 ` Russ
2003-10-16 21:47   ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-10-17 20:03     ` Russ
2003-10-16 15:55 Lionel.DRAGHI
2003-10-17  8:58 Lionel.DRAGHI
2003-10-20 10:42 += " christoph.grein
2003-10-21  6:16 ` Russ
2003-10-21  8:25   ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2003-10-21  8:40 += in Ada Marius Amado Alves
2003-10-21  8:41 += in ada christoph.grein
2003-10-22  5:00 ` Russ
2003-10-21  8:53 christoph.grein
2003-10-21 13:48 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2003-10-22  7:31   ` Russ
2003-10-22  8:02     ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-22 11:41       ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-22 15:17       ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-10-22 15:47         ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-22 15:07     ` Martin Dowie
2003-10-21 10:03 christoph.grein
     [not found] <1066725615.2801.26.camel@localhost.localdomain>
2003-10-21 11:57 ` += in Ada sk
2003-10-21 12:07 += in ada christoph.grein
2003-10-21 13:51 ` Preben Randhol
     [not found] <3F957DAD.2020801@myob.com>
2003-10-21 21:16 ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
     [not found] ` <nSp8Qb_KxF@vib.usr.pu.ru>
2003-10-21 21:40   ` sk
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