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From: Marin David Condic <nobody@noplace.com>
Subject: Re: Standard Library Interest?
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:55:18 GMT
Date: 2003-10-16T12:55:18+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <3F8E9531.9040209@noplace.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 6lijb.140205$%h1.139381@sccrnsc02

Right. I can see that and anticipat that objection on the part of the 
vendors. But at the end of the day, you are not going to get something 
for nothing. We could jam a whole gigantic library into the standard and 
they'd have to support it or admit they don't have a "Full" Ada 
compiler. (I've already observed why we *don't* want it in the standard, 
but assume for a minute it was there in order to *force* the vendors 
into providing it.) They could each pay the cost of building that huge 
library and each pay the cost of supporting that library and each suffer 
individually.

***OR***

The vendors could work as a team on this and share the expense. Form up 
some sort of organization to take care of the library and support it. It 
comes from a single source and they could relatively easily point any 
customer support issues to that source. Its even conceivable that the 
organization they start could become self-sustaining - generating 
revenue out of their own support contracts or software sales or 
royalties or whatever else they might provide.

Here's the thing: Nobody is going to ge a Conventional Ada Library free. 
*Someone* is going to bear the cost of producing it and maintaining it. 
Even if that "Someone" is a bunch of volunteers. If you want to have 
reasonable control over the library and get it done on a schedule and 
have it meet various expectations, that's going to cost something. 
However, that doesn't mean the cost has to be huge or back-breaking for 
each vendor. Some sort of cooperative effort and creative licensing 
might enable it to get constructed and supported without having to incur 
huge costs.

MDC


Mark A. Biggar wrote:
> 
> 
> The other issue that the vendors will have is the support issue.  If
> they distribute it, then they will have to provide some level of support 
> for it, if only training their support people on how to say "distributed
> as is, we don't support it".  And vendor don't like to do that, as it
> causes "Good Will" problems with their customers.
> 
> So even if you have the best thing sense Turing machines, some vendors
> may not distribute it, because they don't see any benefit in the
> increase in support costs.
> 
> Anything that isn't in the standard can have this problem.
> 


-- 
======================================================================
Marin David Condic
I work for: http://www.belcan.com/
My project is: http://www.jsf.mil/NSFrames.htm

Send Replies To: m c o n d i c @ a c m . o r g

     "All reformers, however strict their social conscience,
      live in houses just as big as they can pay for."

          --Logan Pearsall Smith
======================================================================




  reply	other threads:[~2003-10-16 12:55 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 285+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2003-10-05  0:09 Standard Library Interest? chris
2003-10-05  1:38 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-05 11:44   ` chris
2003-10-05 15:16   ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-05 16:40     ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-05 19:22     ` Martin Dowie
2003-10-06 13:12       ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-06 17:09         ` Martin Dowie
2003-10-06 23:34           ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-07  0:23             ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-07 12:42               ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-07 13:17                 ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-07 17:17                   ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-07 17:42                     ` Larry Hazel
2003-10-07 19:36                       ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-07 20:31                         ` Stephen Leake
2003-10-07 21:56                           ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-08  1:11                             ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-08 16:07                               ` Martin Krischik
2003-10-10  4:38                                 ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-10 14:37                                   ` Stephen Leake
2003-10-10 16:24                                     ` Martin Dowie
2003-10-11 14:16                                       ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-12  1:30                                         ` Martin Dowie
2003-10-12  2:46                                           ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-11 14:07                                     ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-14 14:20                                       ` Stephen Leake
2003-10-14 19:14                                         ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-14 19:27                                           ` Stephen Leake
2003-10-15 12:27                                             ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-15 12:42                                               ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-10 16:46                                   ` Martin Krischik
2003-10-10 18:00                                     ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-12 11:19                                       ` Martin Krischik
2003-10-12 14:48                                         ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-11 14:22                                     ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-09 10:50                               ` Ching Bon Lam
2003-10-09 12:11                                 ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-09 17:16                                   ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-09 18:30                                     ` tmoran
2003-10-10  1:29                                   ` Frank
2003-10-10  8:19                                     ` chris
2003-10-10  2:53                                   ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-08 15:55                             ` Stephen Leake
2003-10-08 16:49                               ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-08 17:18                               ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-10  2:59                                 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-08 19:54                             ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-08 21:40                               ` Stephen Leake
2003-10-09 12:28                               ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-09 15:18                                 ` Stefan Lucks
2003-10-09 16:10                                   ` Stephen Leake
2003-10-09 16:57                                     ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-10  4:58                                     ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-10  9:28                                     ` Stefan Lucks
2003-10-10 14:59                                       ` Stephen Leake
2003-10-10 16:48                                         ` Ed Falis
2003-10-10 16:29                                       ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-11  7:01                                         ` Simon Wright
2003-10-10 15:51                                     ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-10 17:04                                       ` Stephen Leake
2003-10-10  3:02                                 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-10  5:17                                   ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-10 16:38                                     ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-11 14:35                                       ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-15 16:24                                         ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-15 17:57                                           ` Ed Falis
2003-10-15 20:45                                             ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-15 20:44                                           ` Mark A. Biggar
2003-10-16 12:55                                             ` Marin David Condic [this message]
2003-10-16 16:52                                               ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-16 17:53                                                 ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-17 13:25                                                   ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-18 13:50                                                     ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-21 17:14                                                       ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-22 13:04                                                         ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-22 16:46                                                           ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-22 17:13                                                             ` Ed Falis
2003-10-23  5:23                                                               ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-23 13:55                                                                 ` Ed Falis
2003-10-23  5:21                                                             ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-27 17:37                                                               ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-28  1:53                                                                 ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-16 12:38                                           ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-16 17:16                                             ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-16 18:02                                               ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-16 18:23                                                 ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-17  0:36                                                 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-17  1:24                                                   ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-17  1:40                                                   ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-17  2:34                                                     ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-17 12:45                                                       ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-16 18:04                                               ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-17 20:09                                                 ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2003-10-20 17:40                                                   ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-21 20:55                                                     ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-21 22:46                                                     ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-21 21:02                                                 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-10 18:44                                     ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-11 14:42                                       ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-11 15:10                                         ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-11 17:58                                           ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-12  1:01                                             ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-12  0:51                                           ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-12  1:17                                             ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-12  2:10                                               ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-12  5:14                                                 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-12 13:39                                                   ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-12  1:20                                             ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-12  2:32                                               ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-12 11:14                                                 ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-16 13:18                                                   ` aleistad
2003-10-07 22:12                           ` tmoran
2003-10-07 22:37                           ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2003-10-08 16:03                           ` Martin Krischik
2003-10-09 13:28                           ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2003-10-28 11:25                         ` Marius Amado Alves
2003-10-28 12:52                           ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-28 13:28                             ` Marius Amado Alves
2003-10-28 23:20                               ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-28 13:21                           ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-28 16:21                           ` Standard Library Interest? (The Big Player ACT) Stephane Richard
2003-10-28 23:37                             ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-29  1:12                               ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-29 14:35                               ` Marc A. Criley
2003-10-29 23:10                                 ` tmoran
2003-10-29 23:34                                 ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-31 14:42                                   ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-11-01  3:05                                     ` Marin David Condic
2003-11-01  3:50                                       ` Stephane Richard
2003-11-01 13:20                                         ` Marin David Condic
2003-11-02 16:41                                       ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-11-02 19:25                                         ` Marin David Condic
2003-11-01  7:20                                     ` Simon Wright
2003-11-02 17:04                                       ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-11-02 15:09                             ` Standard Library Interest? (The Big Player IRVINE) Stephane Richard
2003-11-02 16:18                               ` Marius Amado Alves
2003-11-02 16:35                                 ` Stephane Richard
2003-11-02 22:41                               ` Marin David Condic
2003-11-03  1:07                                 ` Standard Library Interest? Robert I. Eachus
2003-11-03  1:27                                   ` Stephane Richard
2003-11-03 12:52                                     ` Marin David Condic
2003-11-03  3:58                                   ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2003-11-03  6:28                                     ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-11-03 12:11                                       ` Jeff C,
2003-11-03 17:07                                         ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-11-04 18:07                                       ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2003-11-03  7:54                                     ` Mark A. Biggar
2003-11-03 21:02                                       ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2003-11-04  1:50                                         ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-11-04 18:16                                           ` Jeffrey Carter
2003-11-06  2:07                                           ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2003-11-03 15:14                                     ` Robert Spooner
2003-11-03 15:38                                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-11-03 16:52                                       ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2003-11-03 12:36                                   ` Marin David Condic
     [not found]                         ` <1067340353.3441.18.camel@localhost.localdomain>
2003-10-28 11:30                           ` Marius Amado Alves
2003-10-08  1:07                       ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-08  1:15                         ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-08  1:32                           ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-08 15:58                           ` Stephen Leake
2003-10-08 17:24                             ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-07 18:19                     ` Martin Dowie
2003-10-07 19:29                       ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-07 20:30                         ` Martin Dowie
2003-10-08  1:15                       ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-08 21:56                         ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-08 23:56                           ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-09  0:29                             ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-10 16:47                             ` POSIX File Structure Conventions for Ada (Was: Standard Library Interest?) Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-10 17:17                               ` Ludovic Brenta
2003-10-11 16:25                                 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-09 12:42                           ` Standard Library Interest? Marin David Condic
2003-10-09 13:07                             ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-10  3:15                               ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-10  8:10                                 ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-10 12:49                                   ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-10 13:20                                     ` Jeff C,
2003-10-11 14:48                                       ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-11 15:09                                         ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-10 19:22                                   ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-11 11:30                                     ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-11 12:36                                     ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-11 17:41                                       ` sk
2003-10-11 17:43                                         ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-11 18:08                                       ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-11 18:11                                         ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-12  1:33                                         ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-12  5:16                                           ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-15 16:42                                         ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-15 16:35                                     ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-16 12:59                                       ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-17 19:54                                         ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
     [not found]                   ` <8d6b51-0u3.ln1@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
2003-10-07 23:58                     ` Stephane Richard
     [not found]                       ` <f8nc51-gv2.ln1@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
2003-10-08 12:45                         ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-08 16:00                         ` Stephen Leake
2003-10-08 17:37                           ` Stephane Richard
     [not found]                           ` <hdbf51-523.ln1@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
2003-10-09 14:24                             ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-10 12:06                               ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-10 15:03                                 ` Stephen Leake
2003-10-05 17:41   ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-10-05 17:48     ` chris
2003-10-05 23:57     ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-07  1:44       ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-10-08 20:44         ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-09  2:05           ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2003-10-09  5:39             ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-09  9:06               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-10-05 14:49 ` Martin Krischik
2003-10-05 15:25   ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-05 15:51     ` sk
2003-10-05 18:23       ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-05 19:14         ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-06 13:15           ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-05 19:35         ` Jeffrey Carter
2003-10-06  9:46           ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-06 13:16             ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-06 14:44               ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-06 16:51               ` Martin Krischik
2003-10-06 16:48         ` Martin Krischik
2003-10-06 23:38           ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-06 16:42     ` Martin Krischik
2003-10-06 23:39       ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-05 15:02 ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-05 16:43   ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-05 18:31     ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-07  1:58       ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-07 12:48         ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-08 20:49           ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-05 17:49   ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-10-05 18:43     ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-05 23:26       ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-10-06 13:27         ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-10 16:58           ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-11  9:55             ` Martin Dowie
2003-10-15 16:51               ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-16 12:14                 ` Martin Dowie
2003-10-22 16:48                   ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-05 19:27   ` Martin Dowie
2003-10-06 13:33     ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-06 17:16       ` Martin Dowie
2003-10-06 23:45         ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-06 16:47     ` chris
2003-10-06 19:03       ` sk
2003-10-06 20:18         ` chris
2003-10-06 21:13           ` sk
2003-10-20  3:22             ` Dave Thompson
2003-10-20 10:29               ` sk
2003-10-07  0:30           ` Mark Lorenzen
2003-10-07  2:13     ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-07 22:49       ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-10-08 20:58         ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-09 12:57           ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-10  3:09             ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-06  7:02   ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-06 13:37     ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-06 14:34       ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-06 23:50         ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-07  8:55           ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-07 13:05             ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-06 19:37       ` tmoran
2003-10-06 23:57         ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-08 21:46           ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-09  8:10             ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2003-10-10  2:29               ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-09  9:20             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-10-09 13:09             ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-10 14:44               ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-11 14:57                 ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-11 18:25                   ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-12  1:49                     ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-12  3:52                       ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-06 13:50     ` (see below)
2003-10-06 15:28       ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-06 19:37         ` tmoran
2003-10-07  8:59           ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-05 23:33 ` Robert C. Leif
2003-10-06  9:02 ` Vadim Godunko
2003-10-07  0:48 ` Matthew Heaney
2003-10-07  8:56   ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-07 13:08     ` Marin David Condic
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2003-10-10 13:46 Beard, Frank Randolph CIV
2003-10-11  7:33 ` Martin Krischik
2003-10-11 15:04 ` Marin David Condic
     [not found] <mailman.191.1066918723.25614.comp.lang.ada@ada-france.org>
2003-10-23 14:26 ` Ed Falis
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