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From: Richard Riehle <richard@adaworks.com>
Subject: Re: Ariane5 FAQ
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 21:43:45 -0700
Date: 2003-07-29T04:41:11+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <3F25FB81.A81694FA@adaworks.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 3F248CEE.5050709@attbi.com

"Robert I. Eachus" wrote:

> Berend de Boer wrote:
>
> > Except requirements it seems. And I think you should have a look at
> > Design By Contract and in particular Eiffel.
>
> No.  And that is what all the sound and fury has been about.  The
> mapping from requirements to actual code was perfectly done.  The
> problem was that the requirements which were perfectly filled were for
> the Ariane 4, not the Ariane 5.

I suspect Berend was referring to the concept of including the requirements
as assertions in the code.   DbC is a technique for doing this.  However,
there are other approaches to DbC that are more effective for safety-critical

systems than that found in Eiffel.  I am thinking here of SPARK.

In general, the safety-critical community does not like the Eiffel model
because it relies on assertion-errors at run-time.   While this is just
fine for non-safety-critical software, it is not appropriate for a system
such as Ariane V, or any other similar system.

Also, assertions themselves require that someone declare the appropriate
assertions.  In the case of Ariane V, if anyone had felt the need to do that,

even thought about it, they would also have made the same mistake they
made in Ada because the assumptions were wrong from the start.

I favor the DbC model and admire the work done by Bertrand Meyer in
refining this idea.  However, it is all too easily over-simplify this kind of

thing after the fact and suggest that, "If you had simply done things my way,

you would not have had this problem."    DbC and Eiffel would not have
made a whit of difference in this engineering problem, articles and arguments

to the contrary notwithstanding.    Ada use correctly would have been OK.
C++ used wisely would have been OK.  Eiffel and DbC   used carefully
would have been OK.  Java, of course, would not have been OK under
any circumstances.

In the final analysis, Arianne V was not a function of programming language,
or design method, or development tools.  It was an engineering mistake that
began with poor management making incorrect assumptions.   That same
engineering mistake would have occurred regardless of tools, languages,
and systems.

Richard Riehle




  parent reply	other threads:[~2003-07-29  4:43 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 158+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2003-07-21  2:10 Ariane5 FAQ Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2003-07-21 14:52 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-07-21 15:54   ` Vinzent Hoefler
2003-07-21 18:01     ` Hyman Rosen
2003-07-21 18:10       ` Vinzent Hoefler
2003-07-21 18:49         ` Hyman Rosen
2003-07-21 19:13           ` Vinzent Hoefler
2003-07-21 19:43             ` Hyman Rosen
2003-07-21 20:46               ` Vinzent Hoefler
2003-07-22  2:04                 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-07-22  5:12                   ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-07-22 19:09                     ` Hyman Rosen
2003-07-22  8:03                   ` Leif Roar Moldskred
2003-07-22  9:00                   ` Vinzent Hoefler
2003-07-23  0:13                     ` Hyman Rosen
2003-07-23  0:31                       ` Bobby D. Bryant
2003-07-23 13:53                         ` Hyman Rosen
2003-07-24 16:35                           ` Richard Riehle
2003-07-25  1:21                             ` Alexander Kopilovitch
2003-07-25  4:26                               ` Richard Riehle
2003-07-25 12:35                               ` Hyman Rosen
2003-07-25 15:47                                 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-07-25 16:51                                   ` Hyman Rosen
2003-07-25 18:44                                     ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-07-25 21:08                                       ` Simon Wright
2003-07-26  1:02                                         ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-07-26  2:44                                     ` Alexander Kopilovitch
2003-07-27 17:05                                       ` Hyman Rosen
2003-07-27 22:19                                         ` Alexander Kopilovitch
2003-07-28  1:17                                           ` Berend de Boer
2003-07-28  2:39                                             ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-07-28  3:16                                               ` Hyman Rosen
2003-07-28 17:34                                                 ` Mike Silva
2003-07-28 18:03                                                   ` Hyman Rosen
2003-07-29  0:41                                               ` Alexander Kopilovitch
2003-07-29 16:24                                                 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-07-30  0:53                                                   ` Alexander Kopilovitch
2003-07-31 21:41                                                     ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-08-01 20:19                                                       ` Alexander Kopilovitch
2003-07-29  4:43                                               ` Richard Riehle [this message]
2003-07-29  6:06                                                 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-07-29  8:06                                                   ` Vinzent Hoefler
2003-07-29 19:42                                                     ` Berend de Boer
2003-07-29 21:14                                                       ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-07-30  1:13                                                         ` Berend de Boer
2003-07-30 12:58                                                   ` Richard Riehle
2003-07-30 15:04                                                     ` Hyman Rosen
2003-07-29 19:46                                                 ` Berend de Boer
2003-07-30  6:19                                                   ` Richard Riehle
2003-07-30  7:31                                                     ` Hyman Rosen
2003-07-30 13:03                                                       ` Richard Riehle
2003-07-30 13:16                                                         ` Vinzent Hoefler
2003-07-30 15:06                                                           ` Hyman Rosen
2003-07-30 15:15                                                             ` Vinzent Hoefler
2003-07-30 16:46                                                               ` Hyman Rosen
2003-07-30 16:54                                                                 ` Vinzent Hoefler
2003-07-31  8:28                                                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-07-31  9:36                                                                     ` Vinzent Hoefler
2003-07-31 16:28                                                                     ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-07-29 19:34                                               ` Berend de Boer
2003-07-29 20:49                                                 ` Simon Wright
2003-07-29 21:52                                                 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-07-28 18:01                                             ` Non-philosophical definition of Eiffel? (was: Re: Ariane5 FAQ) Alexander Kopilovitch
2003-07-28 18:18                                               ` Non-philosophical definition of Eiffel? Hyman Rosen
2003-07-29  8:43                                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-07-29 13:43                                                   ` Hyman Rosen
2003-07-29 14:56                                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-07-29 16:35                                                       ` Hyman Rosen
2003-07-29 21:39                                                         ` Jim Rogers
2003-07-29 22:33                                                           ` Hyman Rosen
2003-07-30  8:48                                                             ` Pascal Obry
2003-07-30 15:19                                                               ` Hyman Rosen
2003-07-30 18:47                                                                 ` Frank J. Lhota
2003-07-30 19:24                                                                   ` Hyman Rosen
2003-08-04 18:15                                                                   ` Robert Spooner
2003-07-29 22:02                                                         ` Matthew Woodcraft
2003-07-30  9:19                                                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-07-30 16:38                                                           ` Hyman Rosen
2003-07-31  9:58                                                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-07-31 15:49                                                               ` Hyman Rosen
2003-08-01  7:57                                                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-08-01 13:31                                                                   ` Hyman Rosen
2003-07-29 19:58                                                 ` Berend de Boer
2003-07-29 20:33                                                   ` Hyman Rosen
2003-07-30  1:20                                                     ` Berend de Boer
2003-07-30  1:49                                                       ` Hyman Rosen
2003-07-30  2:52                                                         ` Berend de Boer
2003-07-30  4:33                                                           ` Hyman Rosen
2003-07-30  4:40                                                           ` Hyman Rosen
2003-07-30 13:16                                                           ` Matthew Heaney
2003-07-30 20:08                                                             ` Berend de Boer
2003-07-30  3:03                                                         ` Berend de Boer
2003-07-30  4:31                                                           ` Hyman Rosen
2003-07-30 20:20                                                             ` Berend de Boer
2003-07-30 21:05                                                               ` Hyman Rosen
2003-07-29 19:51                                               ` Berend de Boer
2003-07-28  2:11                                           ` Ariane5 FAQ Hyman Rosen
2003-07-25 17:39                                 ` Mike Silva
2003-07-25 21:53                                 ` John R. Strohm
2003-07-22 18:29                   ` Mike Silva
2003-07-22 18:50                     ` Hyman Rosen
2003-07-22 19:00                       ` Bobby D. Bryant
2003-07-22 20:47                       ` Mike Silva
2003-07-22 21:11                         ` Hyman Rosen
2003-07-22 21:38                           ` Bobby D. Bryant
2003-07-23 13:56                             ` Hyman Rosen
2003-07-22 21:52                   ` Larry Elmore
2003-07-23 14:11                     ` Hyman Rosen
2003-07-23 15:08                       ` Vinzent Hoefler
2003-07-23 17:48                         ` Hyman Rosen
2003-07-23 18:42                           ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-07-23 20:18                             ` Hyman Rosen
2003-07-23 22:58                               ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-07-24  1:42                                 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-07-24  5:24                                   ` Mike Silva
2003-07-24  9:57                           ` Vinzent Hoefler
2003-07-24 13:52                             ` Hyman Rosen
2003-07-24 15:00                               ` Vinzent Hoefler
2003-07-23 20:33                       ` Mike Silva
2003-07-23 21:35                         ` Hyman Rosen
2003-07-23 23:10                           ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-07-24  5:16                           ` Mike Silva
2003-07-22  4:57                 ` Richard Riehle
2003-07-22  9:00                   ` Vinzent Hoefler
2003-07-22  9:03                   ` John McCabe
2003-07-22 12:28                   ` Marin David Condic
2003-07-23 19:40               ` Simon Wright
2003-07-22  3:11             ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-07-22  9:05               ` John McCabe
2003-07-22  9:38                 ` Bobby D. Bryant
2003-07-22 16:38               ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-07-21 22:03           ` Bobby D. Bryant
2003-07-22  1:57             ` Hyman Rosen
2003-07-21 18:56         ` Francisco Malpartida
2003-07-22  2:22           ` Hyman Rosen
2003-07-22  7:19             ` Tarjei T. Jensen
2003-07-22 19:06               ` Hyman Rosen
2003-07-22 21:24                 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-07-23 11:55                   ` Tarjei T. Jensen
2003-07-23 19:24                     ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-07-24  0:36                       ` Bobby D. Bryant
2003-07-21 22:00       ` Bobby D. Bryant
2003-07-22  1:59         ` Hyman Rosen
2003-07-22  9:07           ` John McCabe
2003-07-22 13:25             ` Hyman Rosen
2003-07-22  0:16       ` Alexander Kopilovitch
2003-07-22  1:45         ` Hyman Rosen
2003-07-22  7:21           ` Tarjei T. Jensen
2003-07-21 23:24   ` Alexander Kopilovitch
2003-07-22  1:53     ` Hyman Rosen
2003-07-22 16:35       ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-07-22 18:36       ` Mike Silva
2003-07-22 19:23         ` Hyman Rosen
2003-07-22 21:50           ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-07-23 14:21             ` Hyman Rosen
2003-07-23 19:56               ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-07-23 20:26                 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-07-23 23:14                   ` Robert I. Eachus
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