From: Marin David Condic <nobody@noplace.com>
Subject: Re: Boeing and Dreamliner
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 07:50:53 -0400
Date: 2003-06-25T11:50:54+00:00 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <3EF98C9D.8000201@noplace.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 20619edc.0306241001.14dbc0e@posting.google.com
Precisely. The designers had looked at the range of possible inputs and
concluded that if an input were to get beyond some point, this would
indicate a sensor failure because the flight envelope could never
contain that as valid data. That is the Failure Detection part. They
further designed the unit to shut down the channel that had the presumed
bad sensor. That was the accommodation part. It worked *exactly* as it
was designed to work doing *precisely* what it was supposed to do. The
software didn't fail. It didn't have a bug. It worked 100% according to
plan. The problem was that in a different set of circumstances, this was
not the desired behavior and nobody bothered to check.
Its a little like these lawsuits against gun manufacturers when
criminals use their products to kill someone. The argument from the gun
manufacturer ought to be "Look, you pointed the thing at someone,
squeezed the trigger and that person died. It worked exactly as designed
and there was no manufacturing flaw. What's your problem???" :-)
MDC
Mike Silva wrote:
>
>
> The difference is that the Ariane 4 software behaved *exactly* as
> designed and intended for *all* ranges of inputs, for the Ariane 4.
> Raising an exception was not "failing catasrophically" but was the
> correct behavior, triggering the correct shutdown of the unit, for the
> data in question. What data limitation is there to document, when the
> software performs correctly for all data?
>
> Then the Ariane 5 people came along, and they had an unstated, and
> apparently even unrecognized, requirement for *different* behavior
> over a certain range of data. That certainly does not mean there was
> a bug in the Ariane 4 software.
>
> Mike
--
======================================================================
Marin David Condic
I work for: http://www.belcan.com/
My project is: http://www.jast.mil/
Send Replies To: m c o n d i c @ a c m . o r g
"In general the art of government consists in taking as
much money as possible from one class of citizens to give
to the other."
-- Voltaire
======================================================================
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2003-06-25 11:50 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 130+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2003-06-20 3:18 Boeing and Dreamliner Robert Love
2003-06-20 10:29 ` Larry Kilgallen
2003-06-21 2:20 ` Mark A. Biggar
2003-06-23 10:45 ` Robert Kaiser
2003-06-23 11:43 ` Larry Kilgallen
2003-06-23 12:21 ` Martin Dowie
2003-06-23 12:23 ` Larry Kilgallen
2003-06-23 13:02 ` Martin Dowie
2003-06-23 13:02 ` Robert Kaiser
2003-06-20 14:44 ` Matt Brenneke
2003-06-20 17:23 ` Wojtek Narczynski
2003-06-21 4:28 ` rleif
2003-06-22 3:56 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-06-22 9:15 ` Preben Randhol
2003-06-23 18:00 ` Mike Silva
2003-06-22 11:51 ` Larry Kilgallen
2003-06-22 13:37 ` Marin David Condic
2003-06-22 15:06 ` James Rogers
2003-06-22 15:52 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-06-22 18:18 ` Tino Goertemoeller
2003-06-23 3:26 ` John R. Strohm
2003-06-23 5:54 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-06-23 10:12 ` Understanding and Teaching: Who may teach Ada? Georg Bauhaus
2003-06-24 1:34 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-06-24 12:13 ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-06-25 2:59 ` John R. Strohm
2003-06-25 4:44 ` Wesley Groleau
2003-06-25 5:55 ` Anders Wirzenius
2003-06-25 14:03 ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-06-23 21:08 ` Boeing and Dreamliner Alexander Kopilovitch
2003-06-24 3:16 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-06-23 15:40 ` Wesley Groleau
2003-06-23 5:04 ` rleif
2003-06-22 18:07 ` Frank J. Lhota
2003-06-23 9:32 ` AG
2003-06-23 11:12 ` Larry Kilgallen
2003-06-27 16:30 ` Richard Riehle
2003-06-22 15:10 ` Vinzent Hoefler
2003-06-22 18:22 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-06-23 18:24 ` Mike Silva
2003-06-24 2:13 ` Alexander Kopilovitch
2003-06-24 2:35 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-06-24 5:22 ` Mike Silva
2003-06-24 6:14 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-06-24 6:38 ` tmoran
2003-06-24 13:08 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-06-24 17:59 ` tmoran
2003-06-24 18:01 ` Mike Silva
2003-06-25 11:50 ` Marin David Condic [this message]
2003-06-24 10:56 ` Preben Randhol
2003-06-24 13:04 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-06-24 20:54 ` Pascal Obry
2003-06-24 12:06 ` Marin David Condic
2003-06-24 13:12 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-06-24 14:20 ` Larry Kilgallen
2003-06-24 14:33 ` Vinzent Hoefler
2003-06-24 20:37 ` Alexander Kopilovitch
2003-06-25 11:58 ` Marin David Condic
2003-06-24 7:10 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-06-24 7:35 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-06-24 17:29 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-06-27 17:15 ` Richard Riehle
2003-06-27 17:31 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-06-28 1:27 ` Wesley Groleau
2003-06-28 6:32 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-06-27 17:38 ` Preben Randhol
2003-06-28 2:18 ` Alexander Kopilovitch
2003-06-24 16:35 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-06-24 10:48 ` Preben Randhol
2003-06-24 13:16 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-06-24 14:49 ` Preben Randhol
2003-06-24 22:48 ` Wesley Groleau
2003-06-25 0:41 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-06-25 10:28 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-06-25 21:15 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-06-26 2:30 ` Alexander Kopilovitch
2003-06-27 17:19 ` Richard Riehle
2003-06-25 18:00 ` Mike Silva
2003-06-24 6:22 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-06-24 13:21 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-06-24 16:38 `
2003-06-24 18:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-06-26 2:00 ` Alexander Kopilovitch
2003-06-26 19:12 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-06-27 2:21 ` Alexander Kopilovitch
[not found] ` <ts6hs-vk4.ln1@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
2003-06-22 18:59 ` Simon Wright
2003-06-23 18:20 ` Pascal Obry
2003-06-25 8:08 ` Thierry Lelegard
2003-06-27 16:24 ` Richard Riehle
2003-06-27 16:31 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-06-27 18:08 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-06-27 19:00 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-06-28 0:33 ` Alexander Kopilovitch
2003-06-29 6:54 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-06-29 8:30 ` AG
2003-06-29 16:06 ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-06-29 20:20 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-06-30 13:50 ` Alexander Kopilovitch
[not found] ` <t9i7t-0i3.ln1@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
2003-07-01 11:55 ` Marin David Condic
2003-07-02 15:02 ` rleif
2003-07-03 7:38 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-06-29 16:56 ` Alexander Kopilovitch
2003-06-29 20:22 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-06-29 21:09 ` Larry Kilgallen
2003-06-29 21:19 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-06-29 21:31 ` Larry Kilgallen
2003-06-29 21:39 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-06-30 0:07 ` Berend de Boer
2003-06-29 18:26 ` Richard Riehle
2003-06-29 20:45 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-06-30 15:55 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-07-04 0:21 ` Dave Thompson
2003-07-04 16:42 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-07-01 1:08 ` Alexander Kopilovitch
2003-07-03 16:43 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-07-01 1:14 ` Richard Riehle
2003-07-01 5:31 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-07-01 7:30 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-07-01 12:57 ` John R. Strohm
2003-07-04 3:56 ` Wesley Groleau
2003-07-04 5:05 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-06-21 12:55 ` Pascal Obry
2003-06-20 19:59 ` Jeffrey Carter
2003-06-20 22:40 ` Mark Lorenzen
2003-06-20 21:21 ` Jeffrey Carter
2003-06-21 4:28 ` rleif
2003-06-21 8:05 ` Preben Randhol
2003-06-21 10:32 ` Bobby D. Bryant
2003-06-21 10:44 ` Preben Randhol
2003-06-23 16:57 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
replies disabled
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox