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From: Bjorn Reese <breese@mail1.stofanet.dk>
Subject: Re: Quality systems (Was: Using Ada for device drivers? (Was: the Ada mandate, and why it collapsed and died))
Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 15:28:37 +0000
Date: 2003-05-17T15:28:37+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <3EC65525.186A7BB7@mail1.stofanet.dk> (raw)
In-Reply-To: fZQwa.855043$F1.107665@sccrnsc04

Shayne Wissler wrote:

> I think what it indicates is that the development methods used are
> brittle--which leads to the brittle code. If you see the secondary bug to
> primary bug ratio consistently rising, the first thing to do is ask
> questions about who is managing the project, not about the software itself.
> Even the best software will have bad ratios if the people working on it are
> sloppy.
[...]
> A lot of software does deserve to be completely rewritten. But that should 
> be apparent by how slow you have to go when adding features, not by 
> ever-cascading bugs. On the contrary, if you see bugs spiraling out of 
> control, that's evidence that you don't want that particular team and/or 
> its management to undertake rewriting the system.

While sloppiness, or similar human traits, may be a contributing factor,
I think that it is too simplistic to attribute cascading defects to this
single factor. Nor do I believe that the situation will improve in general
by replacing the people.

The major factor, in my experience, to cascading defects is increasing
cognitive complexity of the system, usually combined with insufficient
staffing. The problem is that no matter how clever your staff is, they
will eventually reach a break-even point where the cognitive complexity
of the system exceeds their mental capabilies. Blaming or replacing the
staff will not decrease cognitive complexity.

If you replace the staff, you also risk that the new people will simply
make the same mistakes that the old staff did. Assuming that at least
some from the old staff is capable of learning from their errors, they
may be in a better position to rewrite the system. They also have a
broader understanding of the required domain knowledge.



  parent reply	other threads:[~2003-05-17 15:28 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 666+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <mvul4v00ftbai2g6duuh0r38jpii2qvpjl@4ax.com>
     [not found] ` <PuF2a.34145$rq4.2589125@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
     [not found]   ` <HA8sq6.6AL@bath.ac.uk>
     [not found]     ` <a3eaa964.0302132057.7568b83d@posting.google.com>
     [not found]       ` <slrnb4qo0n.q3u.mbkennelSPAMBEGONE@lyapunov.ucsd.edu>
     [not found]         ` <a3eaa964.0302141953.16f72dfe@posting.google.com>
     [not found]           ` <3E4E8F8C.9C096985@adaworks.com>
     [not found]             ` <9fa75d42.0302250710.5549baaf@posting.google.com>
     [not found]               ` <3E5C7033.BD5DC462@adaworks.com>
     [not found]                 ` <9fa75d42.0302260618.7506cba7@posting.google.com>
     [not found]                   ` <3E5CF5C6.84822F57@adaworks.com>
2003-02-26 22:22                     ` Ada versus language-X and "getting real work done" (was): 64 bit addressing and OOP Kent Paul Dolan
2003-02-26 22:50                       ` Hyman Rosen
     [not found]                         ` <1quq5v0sb922r76rbpmcs2pe19dr4i5a2r@4ax.com>
2003-02-27  3:35                           ` Steve
2003-02-27  7:17                             ` Kent Paul Dolan
2003-02-27  4:38                           ` Hyman Rosen
2003-02-27  6:47                             ` Karel Miklav
2003-04-16 20:33                             ` Tom Welsh
2003-04-23 17:56                               ` Tor Iver Wilhelmsen
2003-02-27 22:06                           ` Dr Chaos
2003-02-27 23:49                             ` JXStern
2003-02-28  0:45                               ` Dr Chaos
2003-02-28  1:08                                 ` JXStern
2003-03-07 16:14                           ` Grant Wagner
2003-04-16 20:36                             ` Tom Welsh
2003-03-07 18:59                           ` John R. Strohm
2003-03-10 15:22                             ` soft-eng
2003-03-10 18:13                               ` John R. Strohm
2003-02-27  7:09                         ` Kent Paul Dolan
2003-02-27 15:32                           ` Hyman Rosen
2003-02-28  0:05                             ` Kent Paul Dolan
2003-02-27 12:35                       ` Marin David Condic
2003-02-27 23:57                         ` Kent Paul Dolan
2003-02-28 11:52                           ` Marin David Condic
2003-02-28  0:13                         ` Karen
2003-02-27 14:30                       ` Colin Paul Gloster
2003-02-27 15:26                       ` soft-eng
2003-02-27 20:27                         ` Mark Thornton
2003-02-27 23:52                         ` Kent Paul Dolan
2003-02-28 14:15                           ` soft-eng
2003-03-01 22:08                             ` AG
     [not found]                               ` <gf906vsc9rt677tusubo3btsjmn1ev1sgm@4ax.com>
2003-03-02 20:55                                 ` AG
2003-03-02 23:38                               ` soft-eng
2003-03-03 12:33                                 ` Lloyd Bonafide
2003-03-03 13:58                             ` soft-eng
2003-02-27 20:18                       ` Mark Thornton
2003-02-27 18:13                         ` CJT
2003-02-26 22:48                     ` the Ada mandate, and why it collapsed and died " Kent Paul Dolan
2003-02-27  0:38                       ` Robert C. Leif
2003-02-27 12:28                         ` Preben Randhol
2003-02-28  3:51                           ` the Ada mandate, and why it collapsed and died Richard Riehle
2003-02-28 12:24                             ` Marin David Condic
2003-02-28 12:48                               ` Marin David Condic
2003-03-01  1:42                                 ` Robert C. Leif
2003-03-01  2:56                                 ` Richard Riehle
2003-03-01 13:13                                   ` Marin David Condic
2003-03-02  0:39                                     ` Robert C. Leif
2003-03-02 16:27                                     ` John R. Strohm
2003-03-02 20:03                                       ` Robert A Duff
2003-03-03  1:21                                         ` Hide or reveal ? (Re: the Ada mandate, and why it collapsed and died) Faust
2003-03-03  8:05                                           ` Preben Randhol
2003-03-03  9:04                                             ` Faust
2003-03-03 18:04                                       ` the Ada mandate, and why it collapsed and died Marin David Condic
2003-04-16 20:48                       ` the Ada mandate, and why it collapsed and died (was): 64 bit addressing and OOP Tom Welsh
2003-04-17  6:16                         ` Kent Paul Dolan
2003-04-17 11:15                           ` Tom Welsh
2003-04-18 18:55                           ` Richard Riehle
2003-04-22 19:26                             ` soft-eng
2003-04-22 22:40                               ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-04-22 23:23                                 ` Wesley Groleau
2003-04-22 23:30                                 ` Robert A Duff
2003-04-23  1:05                                   ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-04-27 16:11                                     ` Robert A Duff
2003-04-28  9:31                                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-04-28 23:17                                         ` Robert A Duff
2003-04-29  7:53                                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-04-28 18:16                                       ` Randy Brukardt
2003-04-23  1:41                                   ` Dr Chaos
2003-04-27 16:21                                     ` Robert A Duff
2003-04-23  5:14                                   ` Wesley Groleau
2003-04-27 16:22                                     ` Robert A Duff
2003-04-27 21:34                                       ` Wesley Groleau
2003-04-28  9:33                                       ` AG
2003-04-23 23:06                                   ` Kent Paul Dolan
2003-04-24  0:43                                     ` Dr Chaos
2003-04-27 16:29                                     ` Robert A Duff
2003-04-23 12:39                                 ` soft-eng
2003-04-23 13:50                                   ` Stephen Leake
2003-04-23 16:55                                     ` soft-eng
2003-04-23 17:10                                   ` P S Norby
2003-04-23 17:57                                   ` Bill Findlay
2003-04-23 18:38                                   ` Dr Chaos
2003-04-24 13:03                                     ` soft-eng
2003-04-24 14:12                                       ` Wesley Groleau
2003-04-24 20:27                                         ` Kent Paul Dolan
2003-04-24 17:53                                       ` Mike Silva
2003-04-25 12:48                                         ` soft-eng
2003-04-26  5:16                                           ` Mike Silva
2003-04-26 14:49                                             ` soft-eng
2003-04-26 21:34                                               ` AG
2003-04-26 23:06                                                 ` Wesley Groleau
2003-05-01  9:33                                                   ` Tom Welsh
2003-04-27  2:03                                                 ` Mike Silva
2003-04-27  5:36                                                   ` AG
2003-04-27 20:35                                                     ` Eric G. Miller
2003-04-27 21:40                                                     ` Wesley Groleau
2003-04-28 21:42                                                       ` The Ghost In The Machine
2003-04-29  3:44                                                         ` Wesley Groleau
2003-04-28 17:42                                                     ` Mike Silva
2003-04-27  2:00                                               ` Frank J. Lhota
2003-04-27  2:27                                                 ` Vinzent Hoefler
2003-04-27  6:24                                               ` Kent Paul Dolan
2003-04-28 12:51                                                 ` soft-eng
2003-04-28 20:25                                                   ` Kent Paul Dolan
2003-04-30 14:48                                                     ` soft-eng
2003-04-30 19:30                                                       ` Rod Davison
2003-04-24 22:09                                       ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-04-25 17:37                                         ` soft-eng
2003-04-25 18:48                                           ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-04-26  2:27                                             ` AG
2003-04-26 14:54                                             ` soft-eng
2003-04-26  1:15                                           ` the Ada mandate, and why it collapsed and died (was): 64 bit addressing a Dave Harris
2003-04-27 20:12                                             ` Hyman Rosen
2003-04-24 23:25                                       ` the Ada mandate, and why it collapsed and died (was): 64 bit addressing and OOP Richard Riehle
2003-04-25 17:28                                         ` soft-eng
2003-04-25  1:51                                       ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-04-26 15:17                                         ` soft-eng
2003-04-25  6:44                                       ` Tom Welsh
2003-04-25  6:58                                         ` AG
2003-04-25 12:43                                           ` soft-eng
2003-04-25 18:04                                             ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-04-26  3:38                                               ` Wesley Groleau
2003-04-26  3:52                                                 ` AG
2003-04-26 12:00                                                 ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-04-25 12:37                                         ` soft-eng
2003-04-25 18:23                                           ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-04-26  1:32                                           ` Richard Riehle
2003-04-26 14:59                                             ` soft-eng
2003-04-30  2:26                                               ` Richard Riehle
2003-04-30 12:12                                                 ` soft-eng
2003-04-30 14:21                                                   ` John R. Strohm
2003-05-01 14:45                                                     ` soft-eng
2003-05-02  1:12                                                       ` Richard Riehle
2003-05-02 13:20                                                         ` soft-eng
2003-05-02 14:45                                                           ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-05-02 14:58                                                           ` Martin Dowie
2003-05-02 17:10                                                           ` Richard Riehle
2003-05-02 15:20                                                         ` Kevin Cline
2003-05-02 15:42                                                           ` Graham Perkins
2003-05-03  4:24                                                             ` Wesley Groleau
2003-05-04 18:20                                                               ` Hyman Rosen
2003-05-06 11:57                                                               ` The Ghost In The Machine
2003-05-07  1:28                                                                 ` Wesley Groleau
2003-05-08 12:41                                                                   ` The Ghost In The Machine
2003-05-08 15:21                                                                     ` Frank J. Lhota
2003-05-10 23:23                                                                       ` The Ghost In The Machine
2003-05-08 21:57                                                             ` Kevin Cline
2003-05-09  6:32                                                               ` apm
2003-04-28  9:05                                             ` Peter Hermann
2003-04-23 13:08                                 ` Larry Kilgallen
2003-04-23  5:57                               ` Richard Riehle
2003-04-23 10:51                                 ` Volkert
2003-04-23 12:24                                 ` soft-eng
2003-04-23 16:31                                   ` Marc A. Criley
2003-04-23 17:18                                   ` tmoran
2003-04-24 12:46                                     ` soft-eng
2003-04-24 13:04                                       ` Using Ada for device drivers? (Was: the Ada mandate, and why it collapsed and died) Jacob Sparre Andersen
2003-04-24 17:50                                         ` soft-eng
2003-04-24 18:37                                           ` tmoran
2003-04-24 19:11                                           ` Robert Spooner
2003-04-25 13:01                                             ` soft-eng
2003-04-25 14:02                                               ` Larry Kilgallen
2003-04-24 20:10                                           ` Larry Kilgallen
2003-04-25 17:22                                             ` soft-eng
2003-04-25 18:24                                               ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-04-24 23:23                                           ` Using Ada for device drivers? Vinzent Hoefler
2003-04-24 23:30                                           ` Using Ada for device drivers? (Was: the Ada mandate, and why it collapsed and died) Kaz Kylheku
2003-04-25 14:11                                             ` Using Ada for device drivers? Georg Bauhaus
2003-04-26 23:23                                               ` Kent Paul Dolan
2003-04-27  1:53                                             ` Using Ada for device drivers? (Was: the Ada mandate, and why it collapsed and died) Frank J. Lhota
2003-04-25  7:46                                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-04-30  3:09                                           ` Will
2003-04-30  6:13                                             ` John R. Strohm
2003-04-30 12:31                                               ` Will
2003-04-30 17:17                                                 ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-05-01  3:37                                                   ` Will
2003-05-01  3:56                                                     ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-05-01 12:21                                                     ` Marin David Condic
2003-05-01 15:16                                                       ` Wesley Groleau
2003-05-02  4:15                                                       ` Will
2003-05-02 13:57                                                         ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-05-02 16:15                                                           ` Mark
2003-05-03  3:13                                                           ` Will
2003-05-03  4:24                                                             ` Chad R. Meiners
     [not found]                                                 ` <fhm6o-3u2.ln1@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
2003-05-01 15:53                                                   ` Robert A Duff
2003-05-02  1:17                                                 ` Richard Riehle
2003-04-30 16:35                                               ` Kaz Kylheku
2003-04-30 17:22                                                 ` Frank J. Lhota
2003-05-01 19:03                                                   ` Kaz Kylheku
2003-05-02  8:26                                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-05-02 18:43                                                     ` Using Ada for device drivers? Georg Bauhaus
2003-04-30 20:15                                                 ` Using Ada for device drivers? (Was: the Ada mandate, and why it collapsed and died) John R. Strohm
2003-05-01 14:21                                                   ` soft-eng
2003-05-01 15:22                                                     ` Wesley Groleau
2003-05-01 15:56                                                       ` Hyman Rosen
2003-05-02  3:15                                                         ` James S. Rogers
2003-05-02  3:24                                                         ` Wesley Groleau
2003-05-11 18:52                                                           ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-05-11 20:11                                                             ` Hyman Rosen
2003-05-11 21:09                                                               ` John R. Strohm
2003-05-11 23:43                                                                 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-05-11 23:54                                                                   ` Bill Findlay
2003-05-12 17:23                                                                   ` Mike Silva
2003-05-12 18:20                                                                     ` Stephen Leake
2003-05-13 11:42                                                                     ` Marin David Condic
2003-05-15 18:18                                                                       ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-05-12 18:28                                                                   ` Larry Kilgallen
2003-05-11 21:57                                                               ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-05-12  0:06                                                                 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-05-12  1:04                                                                   ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-05-12  3:53                                                                   ` Wesley Groleau
2003-05-11 23:33                                                               ` Wesley Groleau
2003-05-11 23:51                                                                 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-05-12  8:40                                                                   ` Preben Randhol
     [not found]                                                                 ` <bqj3p-t23.ln1@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
2003-05-12  5:04                                                                   ` Wesley Groleau
2003-05-12 14:03                                                                     ` OT: Card Shuffling Frank J. Lhota
2003-05-11 23:50                                                               ` Using Ada for device drivers? (Was: the Ada mandate, and why it collapsed and died) Bill Findlay
2003-05-12  8:18                                                               ` Preben Randhol
2003-05-11 21:07                                                             ` John R. Strohm
2003-05-12  0:49                                                               ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-05-12 18:23                                                                 ` Stephen Leake
2003-05-14  5:00                                                                   ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-05-13  2:19                                                                 ` John R. Strohm
2003-05-13  3:21                                                             ` Dr Chaos
2003-05-01 18:35                                                     ` Marc A. Criley
2003-05-01 20:49                                                       ` Robert A Duff
2003-05-02  1:27                                                       ` soft-eng
2003-05-02  3:05                                                         ` John R. Strohm
2003-05-02 13:07                                                           ` soft-eng
2003-05-02 13:14                                                             ` Martin Dowie
2003-05-02 14:23                                                             ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-05-02 17:27                                                             ` Richard Riehle
2003-05-02 21:20                                                             ` Tom Welsh
2003-05-04 13:09                                                               ` Bill Findlay
2003-05-03  4:09                                                             ` Dr Chaos
2003-05-02  3:30                                                         ` James S. Rogers
2003-05-02 13:16                                                           ` soft-eng
2003-05-02 14:28                                                             ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-05-02 17:35                                                             ` Richard Riehle
2003-05-02 21:23                                                             ` Tom Welsh
2003-05-02 22:18                                                             ` Jim Rogers
2003-05-03  4:07                                                               ` Dr Chaos
2003-05-06 13:21                                                               ` soft-eng
2003-05-06 19:03                                                                 ` Jim Rogers
2003-05-07 13:04                                                                   ` soft-eng
2003-05-07 14:05                                                                     ` Preben Randhol
2003-05-07 17:29                                                                       ` soft-eng
2003-05-07 19:37                                                                         ` Mark Thornton
2003-05-08 13:48                                                                           ` soft-eng
2003-05-08 15:46                                                                             ` Thant Tessman
2003-05-09  3:37                                                                               ` Wesley Groleau
2003-05-09  7:23                                                                                 ` Marshall Spight
2003-05-09 13:14                                                                                   ` soft-eng
2003-05-09 12:31                                                                                 ` soft-eng
2003-05-10  4:57                                                                                   ` Tim Ottinger
2003-05-11 19:24                                                                                     ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-05-12  9:51                                                                                     ` Leif Roar Moldskred
2003-05-09 15:09                                                                                 ` Thant Tessman
2003-05-07 22:58                                                                         ` Dr Chaos
2003-05-08 14:06                                                                           ` soft-eng
2003-05-08 17:57                                                                             ` Dr Chaos
2003-05-08 18:20                                                                             ` tmoran
2003-05-09 13:22                                                                               ` soft-eng
2003-05-11 20:12                                                                                 ` Richard Riehle
2003-05-11 20:24                                                                                   ` Hyman Rosen
2003-05-13  1:39                                                                                     ` Using Ada for device drivers? (Was: the Ada mandate, and whyit " Richard Riehle
2003-05-08 23:16                                                                             ` Using Ada for device drivers? (Was: the Ada mandate, and why it " John R. Strohm
2003-05-09 12:24                                                                               ` soft-eng
2003-05-09 16:03                                                                                 ` John R. Strohm
2003-05-09 16:28                                                                                   ` John R. Strohm
2003-05-09 23:45                                                                                     ` soft-eng
2003-05-10  2:32                                                                                       ` John R. Strohm
2003-05-10  4:24                                                                                     ` Jim Weirich
2003-05-08 12:29                                                                         ` Marin David Condic
2003-05-08 20:22                                                                           ` soft-eng
2003-05-08 21:33                                                                             ` Robert A Duff
2003-05-08 23:21                                                                             ` John R. Strohm
2003-05-09  8:30                                                                             ` Tom Welsh
2003-05-09 13:18                                                                               ` soft-eng
2003-05-09 15:01                                                                                 ` Tom Welsh
2003-05-09 23:41                                                                               ` Dr Chaos
2003-05-12 13:43                                                                                 ` soft-eng
2003-05-13  3:25                                                                                   ` Dr Chaos
2003-05-13 17:30                                                                                     ` soft-eng
2003-05-13 22:19                                                                                       ` Dr Chaos
2003-05-14 12:53                                                                                         ` soft-eng
2003-05-14 14:55                                                                                           ` Preben Randhol
2003-05-14 22:56                                                                                             ` Thant Tessman
2003-05-13 10:36                                                                                 ` Larry Kilgallen
     [not found]                                                                                 ` <9fa75d42.03051205Followup-To: comp.lang.ada <zhA3ybPlX6cW@eisner.encompasserve.org>
2003-05-13 20:53                                                                                   ` Simon Wright
2003-05-08 14:34                                                                         ` Preben Randhol
2003-05-08 17:58                                                                           ` Dr Chaos
2003-05-07 16:33                                                                     ` Wesley Groleau
2003-05-07 18:48                                                                     ` Jim Rogers
2003-05-07 19:09                                                                     ` Gautier
2003-05-07 22:45                                                                     ` Dr Chaos
2003-05-02 12:57                                                         ` Marc A. Criley
2003-05-02 18:55                                                           ` Hyman Rosen
2003-05-09 14:57                                                             ` soft-eng
2003-05-09 15:44                                                               ` Hyman Rosen
2003-05-10 17:17                                                                 ` soft-eng
2003-05-12  8:06                                                                   ` Preben Randhol
2003-05-12 13:48                                                                     ` soft-eng
2003-05-12 14:33                                                                       ` Preben Randhol
2003-05-08  5:14                                                         ` Gautier
2003-05-09 14:12                                                           ` soft-eng
2003-05-09 14:33                                                             ` Vinzent Hoefler
2003-05-09 14:38                                                             ` Frank J. Lhota
2003-05-09 16:09                                                             ` John R. Strohm
2003-05-09 23:49                                                               ` soft-eng
2003-05-10  2:44                                                                 ` John R. Strohm
2003-05-11 20:59                                                                   ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-05-11 22:24                                                                     ` Shayne Wissler
2003-05-13  3:15                                                                   ` Dr Chaos
2003-05-13 14:29                                                                     ` Robert Spooner
2003-05-13 14:46                                                                       ` James S. Rogers
2003-05-10 10:49                                                                 ` Dale Stanbrough
2003-05-12  5:36                                                                   ` Quality systems (Was: Using Ada for device drivers? (Was: the Ada mandate, and why it collapsed and died)) Anders Wirzenius
2003-05-13  0:29                                                                     ` Willard Thompson
2003-05-13  2:16                                                                       ` John R. Strohm
2003-05-13 13:53                                                                         ` Kent Paul Dolan
2003-05-13  6:36                                                                       ` Anders Wirzenius
2003-05-13 13:43                                                                         ` soft-eng
2003-05-13 13:49                                                                           ` Preben Randhol
2003-05-13 14:28                                                                             ` Robert Spooner
2003-05-13 17:17                                                                               ` Vinzent Hoefler
2003-05-14 14:35                                                                               ` The Ghost In The Machine
2003-05-14 12:27                                                                             ` Marin David Condic
2003-05-14 15:16                                                                               ` Preben Randhol
2003-05-14 16:50                                                                                 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-05-14 18:45                                                                                   ` Vinzent Hoefler
2003-05-15 16:32                                                                                     ` Stephen Leake
2003-05-15 17:18                                                                                       ` Quality systems Vinzent Hoefler
2003-05-15 17:48                                                                                     ` Quality systems (Was: Using Ada for device drivers? (Was: the Ada mandate, and why it collapsed and died)) Jim Rogers
2003-05-16 12:53                                                                               ` soft-eng
2003-05-16 13:36                                                                                 ` Steve O'Neill
2003-05-16 13:44                                                                                 ` Preben Randhol
2003-05-17  8:34                                                                                 ` Martin Dowie
2003-05-17 16:30                                                                                   ` Wesley Groleau
2003-05-17  9:10                                                                                 ` Larry Kilgallen
2003-05-17 14:45                                                                                 ` Marin David Condic
2003-05-14  7:36                                                                           ` Anders Wirzenius
2003-05-14 14:30                                                                             ` Robert Spooner
2003-05-14 17:10                                                                             ` Wesley Groleau
2003-05-15 14:00                                                                             ` soft-eng
2003-05-16  6:12                                                                               ` Anders Wirzenius
2003-05-16 14:25                                                                                 ` soft-eng
2003-05-16 22:20                                                                                   ` Quality systems Georg Bauhaus
2003-05-14 13:49                                                                           ` Quality systems (Was: Using Ada for device drivers? (Was: the Ada mandate, and why it collapsed and died)) Marc A. Criley
2003-05-15  1:47                                                                             ` soft-eng
2003-05-15  6:43                                                                               ` tmoran
2003-05-15 14:29                                                                                 ` achrist
2003-05-15 14:34                                                                                   ` David Lightstone
2003-05-15 15:20                                                                                     ` Vinzent Hoefler
2003-05-16  5:17                                                                                     ` Richard Riehle
2003-05-21 20:11                                                                                     ` Brian Gaffney
2003-05-21 21:51                                                                                       ` David Lightstone
2003-05-22  2:37                                                                                       ` achrist
2003-05-22 20:34                                                                                         ` Randy Brukardt
2003-05-28 22:56                                                                                         ` David Lightstone
2003-05-22 20:29                                                                                       ` Randy Brukardt
2003-05-23  6:15                                                                                         ` Richard Riehle
2003-05-23 10:37                                                                                           ` Dale Stanbrough
2003-05-15 14:38                                                                                   ` Quality systems (Was: Using Ada for device drivers? (Was: theAda " David C. Hoos
2003-05-15 15:20                                                                                     ` Vinzent Hoefler
2003-05-15 16:34                                                                                     ` tmoran
2003-05-15 15:20                                                                                   ` Quality systems (Was: Using Ada for device drivers? (Was: the Ada " Vinzent Hoefler
2003-05-15 23:00                                                                                     ` achrist
2003-05-16  3:22                                                                                       ` Ada for tiny machines ? Wesley Groleau
2003-05-16  4:40                                                                                       ` Quality systems (Was: Using Ada for device drivers? (Was: the Ada tmoran
2003-05-16 14:31                                                                                         ` achrist
2003-05-17  5:11                                                                                           ` tmoran
2003-05-17 18:33                                                                                             ` achrist
2003-05-18  3:19                                                                                               ` tmoran
2003-05-15 15:04                                                                                 ` Quality systems (Was: Using Ada for device drivers? (Was: the Ada mandate, and why it collapsed and died)) Wesley Groleau
2003-05-16 12:31                                                                                   ` soft-eng
2003-05-16 13:47                                                                                     ` Preben Randhol
2003-05-16 18:20                                                                                     ` Wesley Groleau
2003-05-16 14:04                                                                                 ` soft-eng
2003-05-16 17:42                                                                                   ` Steve O'Neill
2003-05-15  8:13                                                                               ` Preben Randhol
2003-05-15 18:07                                                                                 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-05-15 18:26                                                                                   ` Shayne Wissler
2003-05-16 15:40                                                                                     ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-05-16 17:24                                                                                     ` soft-eng
2003-05-16 18:54                                                                                       ` Linnea
2003-05-17  0:43                                                                                         ` soft-eng
2003-05-16 19:20                                                                                       ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-05-16 20:57                                                                                         ` Larry Hazel
2003-05-17  0:42                                                                                         ` Alexander Kopilovitch
2003-05-17  0:47                                                                                         ` soft-eng
2003-05-17  1:55                                                                                         ` soft-eng
2003-05-17 15:28                                                                                     ` Bjorn Reese [this message]
2003-05-17 17:28                                                                                       ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-05-15 19:48                                                                                   ` Robert Spooner
2003-05-16  2:47                                                                                     ` John R. Strohm
2003-05-16  4:03                                                                                       ` Dr Chaos
2003-05-15 19:39                                                                                 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-05-16  6:23                                                                                   ` Preben Randhol
2003-05-16  9:56                                                                                     ` Tarjei T. Jensen
2003-05-16 17:30                                                                                       ` Logic Errors and Ada (Was: A big hairy thread on Ada, Quality, and Drivers) Marc A. Criley
2003-05-18 23:02                                                                                         ` soft-eng
2003-05-19  1:37                                                                                           ` James S. Rogers
2003-05-19  3:13                                                                                             ` Wesley Groleau
2003-05-19  5:44                                                                                             ` Anders Wirzenius
2003-05-20  0:55                                                                                               ` James S. Rogers
2003-05-19  2:00                                                                                           ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-05-20 10:28                                                                                             ` Logic Errors and Ada Peter Hermann
2003-05-21  3:05                                                                                               ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-05-19 11:11                                                                                           ` Logic Errors and Ada (Was: A big hairy thread on Ada, Quality, and Drivers) Martin Dowie
2003-05-19 19:42                                                                                             ` Simon Wright
2003-05-19 20:30                                                                                               ` Dr Chaos
2003-05-19 22:10                                                                                                 ` Preben Randhol
2003-05-20 13:36                                                                                                   ` Stephen Leake
2003-05-20  7:34                                                                                               ` Martin Dowie
2003-05-20 13:04                                                                                                 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-05-20 21:19                                                                                                   ` Martin Dowie
2003-05-21  7:19                                                                                                     ` Martin Dowie
2003-05-19 16:30                                                                                           ` Marc A. Criley
2003-05-19 21:57                                                                                           ` Gautier Write-only
2003-05-20 16:21                                                                                             ` soft-eng
2003-05-20 20:45                                                                                               ` Gautier Write-only
2003-05-20 20:52                                                                                               ` Tom Welsh
2003-05-16 17:43                                                                                       ` Quality systems (Was: Using Ada for device drivers? (Was: the Ada mandate, and why it collapsed and died)) Chad R. Meiners
2003-05-16  9:39                                                                               ` Tarjei T. Jensen
2003-05-16 22:32                                                                                 ` AG
2003-05-17  1:48                                                                                   ` soft-eng
2003-05-17  3:20                                                                                     ` AG
2003-05-17  3:47                                                                                     ` James S. Rogers
2003-05-19  1:57                                                                                       ` Hyman Rosen
2003-05-19  6:30                                                                                         ` Vinzent Hoefler
2003-05-19  7:42                                                                                           ` Hyman Rosen
2003-05-19  8:21                                                                                             ` Vinzent Hoefler
2003-05-19 14:07                                                                                               ` Hyman Rosen
2003-05-19 14:31                                                                                                 ` Vinzent Hoefler
2003-05-19 15:00                                                                                                   ` Hyman Rosen
2003-05-19 15:21                                                                                                     ` Vinzent Hoefler
2003-05-20 16:10                                                                                                   ` Robert A Duff
2003-05-20 19:23                                                                                                     ` Vinzent Hoefler
2003-05-20 19:54                                                                                                       ` Robert A Duff
2003-05-22 21:15                                                                                                         ` Randy Brukardt
2003-05-23  0:48                                                                                                           ` Hyman Rosen
2003-05-23 18:38                                                                                                             ` Randy Brukardt
2003-05-24 22:42                                                                                                               ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-05-25 10:53                                                                                                                 ` Matthew Woodcraft
2003-05-25 21:12                                                                                                                   ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-05-25 12:33                                                                                                                 ` Marin David Condic
2003-05-25 19:47                                                                                                                   ` Hyman Rosen
2003-05-26 12:32                                                                                                                     ` Marin David Condic
2003-05-26 15:57                                                                                                                       ` Hyman Rosen
2003-05-27 12:02                                                                                                                         ` Marin David Condic
2003-05-27 12:26                                                                                                                           ` Dale Stanbrough
2003-05-28 11:25                                                                                                                             ` Marin David Condic
2003-05-28  6:56                                                                                                                           ` AG
2003-05-28 11:34                                                                                                                             ` Marin David Condic
2003-05-28  8:24                                                                                                                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-05-28 11:38                                                                                                                             ` Marin David Condic
2003-05-29  9:17                                                                                                                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-05-29 10:55                                                                                                                                 ` Marin David Condic
2003-05-28  9:13                                                                                                                           ` Vinzent Hoefler
2003-05-28 11:53                                                                                                                             ` Saturated Math (was: " Marin David Condic
2003-05-28 13:02                                                                                                                               ` Saturated Math Vinzent Hoefler
2003-05-28 18:56                                                                                                                                 ` Randy Brukardt
2003-05-28 20:06                                                                                                                                   ` Robert A Duff
2003-05-29  9:17                                                                                                                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-05-28 21:19                                                                                                                                   ` Dale Stanbrough
2003-05-28 21:45                                                                                                                                   ` Robert C. Leif
2003-05-29 11:02                                                                                                                                   ` Marin David Condic
2003-05-30  8:42                                                                                                                                     ` Dale Stanbrough
2003-05-30  9:22                                                                                                                                       ` AG
2003-05-30 10:54                                                                                                                                         ` Dale Stanbrough
2003-05-30 11:11                                                                                                                                           ` AG
2003-05-30 13:46                                                                                                                                             ` Dale Stanbrough
2003-05-30 18:55                                                                                                                                               ` Randy Brukardt
2003-05-30 19:31                                                                                                                                                 ` Robert A Duff
2003-05-31  7:25                                                                                                                                               ` AG
2003-05-31 12:12                                                                                                                                                 ` Dale Stanbrough
2003-05-30 11:41                                                                                                                                       ` Marin David Condic
2003-05-30 19:10                                                                                                                                         ` Randy Brukardt
2003-05-30 20:33                                                                                                                                         ` tmoran
2003-05-31  3:13                                                                                                                                           ` Marin David Condic
2003-05-31 13:31                                                                                                                                             ` Simon Wright
2003-05-30 22:50                                                                                                                                         ` John Griffiths
2003-05-31  9:30                                                                                                                                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-05-31  9:30                                                                                                                                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-05-31 12:37                                                                                                                                           ` Marin David Condic
2003-05-30 18:49                                                                                                                                       ` Randy Brukardt
2003-05-30 19:46                                                                                                                                         ` Vinzent Hoefler
2003-05-29  0:23                                                                                                                                 ` Robert A Duff
2003-05-29  3:13                                                                                                                                   ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-05-29 11:08                                                                                                                                   ` Marin David Condic
2003-05-29 17:08                                                                                                                                     ` tmoran
2003-05-30  1:33                                                                                                                                       ` Robert C. Leif
2003-05-30 11:32                                                                                                                                       ` Marin David Condic
2003-05-29 17:13                                                                                                                                     ` Mike Silva
2003-06-01 17:17                                                                                                                                       ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-05-30 14:12                                                                                                                                   ` Vinzent Hoefler
2003-05-30 14:23                                                                                                                                     ` Robert A Duff
2003-05-30 14:45                                                                                                                                       ` Vinzent Hoefler
2003-05-30 16:03                                                                                                                                         ` Robert A Duff
2003-05-30 11:47                                                                                                                   ` Quality systems (Was: Using Ada for device drivers? (Was: the Ada mandate, and why it collapsed and died)) Mark Lorenzen
2003-05-30 11:50                                                                                                                     ` Marin David Condic
2003-05-31  9:30                                                                                                                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-05-31 12:45                                                                                                                         ` Marin David Condic
2003-05-31 17:19                                                                                                                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-05-27 21:08                                                                                                                 ` Randy Brukardt
2003-05-23  7:27                                                                                                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-05-23 21:21                                                                                                             ` Robert A Duff
2003-05-24  7:33                                                                                                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-05-25  5:50                                                                                                             ` Hyman Rosen
2003-05-25  9:13                                                                                                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-05-25 20:46                                                                                                               ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-05-23 14:28                                                                                                           ` Quality systems (Was: Using Ada for device drivers? (Was: theAda " Robert C. Leif
2003-05-25 15:38                                                                                                             ` Quality systems (Was: Using Ada for device drivers? (Was: theAdamandate, " Tarjei T. Jensen
2003-05-20 20:59                                                                                                     ` Quality systems (Was: Using Ada for device drivers? (Was: the Ada mandate, " tmoran
2003-05-21 15:11                                                                                                       ` Robert A Duff
2003-05-21 15:47                                                                                                         ` Quality systems Peter Hermann
2003-05-21 16:24                                                                                                         ` Quality systems (Was: Using Ada for device drivers? (Was: the Ada mandate, and why it collapsed and died)) tmoran
2003-05-21 11:42                                                                                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-05-21 15:29                                                                                                       ` Robert A Duff
2003-05-22  7:29                                                                                                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-05-22 12:27                                                                                                           ` Quality systems Peter Hermann
2003-05-22 17:21                                                                                                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-05-21 18:28                                                                                                       ` Quality systems (Was: Using Ada for device drivers? (Was: the Ada mandate, and why it collapsed and died)) John R. Strohm
2003-05-22  7:09                                                                                                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-05-28 11:35                                                                                                     ` Quality systems (Was: Using Ada for device drivers? (Was: the Larry Kilgallen
     [not found]                                                                                                     ` <badvd5$raumj$1@ID-175126.newOrganization: LJK Software <QImmYdcyN2$d@eisner.encompasserve.org>
2003-05-28 12:29                                                                                                       ` Marin David Condic
2003-05-30 10:09                                                                                                     ` Quality systems (Was: Using Ada for device drivers? (Was: the Ada mandate, and why it collapsed and died)) Larry Kilgallen
2003-05-20  3:03                                                                                                 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-05-23  6:21                                                                                                 ` Quality systems (Was: Using Ada for device drivers? (Was: theAda " Richard Riehle
2003-05-19  7:57                                                                                         ` Quality systems (Was: Using Ada for device drivers? (Was: the Ada " Preben Randhol
2003-05-19 19:04                                                                                         ` Overflow checking in GNAT (Was: Quality systems) Jacob Sparre Andersen
2003-05-16 12:25                                                                               ` Quality systems (Was: Using Ada for device drivers? (Was: the Ada mandate, and why it collapsed and died)) Marc A. Criley
2003-05-16 13:21                                                                                 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-05-16 19:07                                                                                   ` Dr Chaos
2003-05-19  7:35                                                                                   ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2003-05-19  7:39                                                                                     ` Hyman Rosen
2003-05-19  8:46                                                                                       ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2003-05-19 14:01                                                                                         ` Hyman Rosen
2003-05-19 20:38                                                                                           ` Dr Chaos
2003-05-20  7:51                                                                                           ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2003-05-20  5:52                                                                                         ` The Ghost In The Machine
2003-05-20 13:18                                                                                           ` Hyman Rosen
2003-05-21 13:57                                                                                             ` The Ghost In The Machine
2003-05-21 14:22                                                                                               ` Hyman Rosen
2003-05-23  5:18                                                                                                 ` The Ghost In The Machine
2003-05-25  5:54                                                                                                   ` Hyman Rosen
2003-05-25  6:28                                                                                                     ` Dale Stanbrough
2003-05-25  6:35                                                                                                       ` Hyman Rosen
2003-05-16 18:14                                                                                 ` Wesley Groleau
2003-05-19 14:43                                                                                 ` Quality systems (Was: Using Ada for device drivers? (Was: the Larry Kilgallen
2003-05-19 15:04                                                                                   ` Hyman Rosen
2003-05-13 14:43                                                                         ` Quality systems (Was: Using Ada for device drivers? (Was: the Ada mandate, and why it collapsed and died)) soft-eng
2003-05-13 21:01                                                                           ` Wesley Groleau
2003-05-14 12:36                                                                             ` soft-eng
2003-05-15 13:55                                                                               ` Graham Perkins
2003-05-16 12:40                                                                                 ` soft-eng
2003-05-16 14:59                                                                                   ` Tom Welsh
2003-05-16 15:52                                                                                   ` Preben Randhol
2003-05-17 14:34                                                                                     ` Tarjei T. Jensen
2003-05-17 16:59                                                                                       ` Preben Randhol
2003-05-17 18:01                                                                                         ` WinGuru
2003-05-17 18:08                                                                                           ` Preben Randhol
2003-05-17 21:58                                                                                           ` AG
2003-05-18  8:12                                                                                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-05-18  7:50                                                                                         ` Tarjei T. Jensen
2003-05-18  9:07                                                                                           ` Preben Randhol
2003-05-18  9:10                                                                                             ` Preben Randhol
2003-05-18  9:27                                                                                             ` Tarjei T. Jensen
2003-05-18  9:56                                                                                               ` Preben Randhol
2003-05-18 13:39                                                                                               ` Marin David Condic
2003-05-22 10:16                                                                                                 ` Tarjei T. Jensen
2003-05-22 11:43                                                                                                   ` Marin David Condic
2003-05-22 11:50                                                                                                     ` Vinzent Hoefler
2003-05-22 12:52                                                                                                     ` Larry Kilgallen
2003-05-18  0:52                                                                                       ` tmoran
2003-05-18  7:54                                                                                         ` Tarjei T. Jensen
2003-05-18  9:04                                                                                           ` Preben Randhol
2003-05-18  9:25                                                                                             ` Tarjei T. Jensen
2003-05-18  9:55                                                                                               ` Preben Randhol
2003-05-18 10:50                                                                                                 ` Pascal Obry
2003-05-19  7:52                                                                                                   ` Preben Randhol
2003-05-18 10:16                                                                                               ` Dale Stanbrough
2003-05-18 11:06                                                                                                 ` Tarjei T. Jensen
2003-05-18 11:10                                                                                                   ` Tarjei T. Jensen
2003-05-18 11:37                                                                                                     ` Dale Stanbrough
2003-05-19  7:50                                                                                                       ` Preben Randhol
2003-05-19  8:23                                                                                                         ` Dale Stanbrough
2003-05-19 15:12                                                                                                         ` Wesley Groleau
2003-05-18 11:41                                                                                                     ` Dale Stanbrough
2003-05-19  7:47                                                                                                   ` Preben Randhol
2003-05-19 15:11                                                                                                     ` [off-topic] fruit inspection Wesley Groleau
2003-05-19 19:00                                                                                                       ` Preben Randhol
2003-05-22 11:00                                                                                 ` Quality systems (Was: Using Ada for device drivers? (Was: the Ada mandate, and why it collapsed and died)) Larry Kilgallen
     [not found]                                                                                 ` <9fa75d42.0305160440.7846d1Organization: LJK Software <bNuxBNMk4BSq@eisner.encompasserve.org>
2003-05-22 13:12                                                                                   ` Tarjei T. Jensen
2003-05-22 14:17                                                                                 ` Larry Kilgallen
     [not found]                                                                             ` <9fa75d42.0305140436.5 <ba067m$iph$1@south.jnrs.ja.net>
2003-05-15 14:18                                                                               ` Roy Smith
2003-05-15 16:44                                                                                 ` Quality systems Dave Aronson
2003-05-16  0:40                                                                                   ` Willard Thompson
2003-05-13 14:48                                                                         ` Quality systems (Was: Using Ada for device drivers? (Was: the Ada mandate, and why it collapsed and died)) Willard Thompson
2003-05-13 16:03                                                                     ` Kaz Kylheku
2003-05-09 16:23                                                             ` Using Ada for device drivers? (Was: the Ada mandate, and why it collapsed and died) Wesley Groleau
2003-05-09 18:52                                                             ` Jim Rogers
2003-05-12  0:47                                                               ` Dave Thompson
2003-05-14  3:25                                                                 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-05-14  5:19                                                                   ` Preben Randhol
2003-05-22  6:30                                                                   ` Dave Thompson
2003-05-09 19:27                                                             ` Marc A. Criley
2003-05-10 14:09                                                               ` Marin David Condic
2003-05-10 17:37                                                                 ` soft-eng
2003-05-10 18:00                                                                   ` Vinzent Hoefler
2003-05-09 22:32                                                             ` Gautier
2003-05-01 19:29                                                     ` Gautier
2003-05-09 13:36                                                       ` soft-eng
2003-05-09 16:14                                                         ` John R. Strohm
2003-05-09 17:46                                                         ` soft-eng
2003-05-10  8:40                                                           ` Preben Randhol
2003-05-10  8:30                                                         ` Preben Randhol
2003-05-10 17:35                                                           ` soft-eng
2003-05-12  8:16                                                             ` Preben Randhol
2003-05-01 19:44                                                     ` Dr Chaos
2003-05-02 12:29                                                     ` Marin David Condic
2003-05-09 17:37                                                       ` soft-eng
2003-05-10  6:56                                                         ` Tom Welsh
2003-05-10 14:51                                                           ` Marin David Condic
2003-05-10 17:27                                                           ` soft-eng
2003-05-11  1:36                                                             ` John R. Strohm
2003-05-11 22:13                                                             ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-05-12 13:51                                                               ` soft-eng
2003-05-13 12:12                                                                 ` Using Ada for device drivers? Georg Bauhaus
2003-05-15  1:32                                                                   ` soft-eng
2003-05-15 17:54                                                                     ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-05-10 14:36                                                         ` Using Ada for device drivers? (Was: the Ada mandate, and why it collapsed and died) Marin David Condic
2003-05-02 18:21                                                 ` Using Ada for device drivers? Georg Bauhaus
2003-05-02 18:37                                                   ` Robert A Duff
2003-05-04 18:33                                                   ` Hyman Rosen
2003-05-05 12:30                                                     ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-05-05 13:12                                                       ` Hyman Rosen
2003-05-06 14:47                                                         ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-05-06 17:37                                                           ` Hyman Rosen
2003-05-06 21:02                                                             ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-05-06  9:15                                                     ` Peter Hermann
2003-05-06 19:40                                                     ` Jim Rogers
2003-05-06 20:13                                                       ` Hyman Rosen
2003-05-06 20:13                                                     ` Larry Kilgallen
2003-04-24 13:05                                       ` the Ada mandate, and why it collapsed and died (was): 64 bit addressing and OOP Larry Kilgallen
2003-04-24 13:33                                       ` Vinzent Hoefler
2003-04-24 14:09                                       ` John R. Strohm
2003-04-24 20:37                                       ` Kaz Kylheku
2003-05-01  1:32                                       ` Adam Ruth
2003-04-23 18:31                                   ` Simon Wright
2003-04-23 18:40                                   ` Samuel Tardieu
2003-04-22 19:33                             ` Larry Kilgallen
2003-04-23  4:28                             ` Larry Kilgallen
     [not found]                             ` <9fa75d42.0304221126.7112b7d5@posting.gOrganization: LJK Software <d3xFAUvBYizb@eisner.encompasserve.org>
2003-04-22 21:50                               ` Robert A Duff
2003-04-23  0:01                                 ` Dale Stanbrough
2003-04-26 14:44                                   ` soft-eng
2003-04-27  4:55                                     ` Steve
2003-04-27 21:48                                       ` [off-topic] electronic mismatch Wesley Groleau
2003-04-23 13:15                               ` the Ada mandate, and why it collapsed and died (was): 64 bit addressing and OOP soft-eng
2003-04-23 18:40                                 ` Dr Chaos
2003-05-01  1:39                                 ` Adam Ruth
2003-04-23 13:54                               ` Larry Kilgallen
     [not found]                               ` <9fa75d42.030423Organization: LJK Software <kKoVGF55fYtj@eisner.encompasserve.org>
2003-04-23 15:47                                 ` H. S. Lahman
2003-04-25 19:38                                 ` soft-eng
2003-04-23 16:24                             ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-04-25  0:15                               ` Richard Riehle
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