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From: Jerry Petrey <"jdpetrey<NOSPAM>"@raytheon.com>
Subject: Re: Ada in Iraq
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 09:15:38 -0700
Date: 2003-04-29T09:15:38-07:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <3EAEA52A.585211BF@raytheon.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 1051623300.735620@master.nyc.kbcfp.com

Hyman Rosen wrote:

> Preben Randhol wrote:
> > C++
>
> I don't why you keep harping on C++. I'm not talking
> about C++, I'm talking about whether you can take
> programmers who don't know Ada and have them produce
> a well-designed system in Ada before they acquire a
> deep and thorough understanding of the language.

Hyman,

I understand your point.  I think some of the worst code I have ever seen has
been Ada written by people who still think in their old language (Fortran, C,
etc.) and who have not taken (or been given) the time to learn Ada properly.
Companies rarely devote much to training their people in a new language and
unfortunately, many software engineers also don�t devote much to this effort.
The attitude is that if you know how to program in one language, you can learn
how to use another with little effort.  While this may be true, I contend that
you won�t be writing the best (and most maintainable) code unless to devote
some serious effort in learning to �think� in the new language.  This is true
in any language, I believe, which is probably what Preben was trying to say
when he challenged you about your question.  That said, I still feel that Ada
offers a great advantage over most other languages in that even code written
by under trained newcomers is still more maintainable and the strong typing
and compiler checking helps these programmers to become more proficient.

Some of the things that would make a huge improvement in software quality,
safety and maintainability would be:

1. Companies would allow developers to expend the extensive effort required to
become true craftsmen in the language chosen.
2. Managers would manage.  Experienced developers would have more control over
the project.
3. A good process would be followed without exceptions.
4. Thorough testing would be done.
5. The first attempt on a new application (especially by a team inexperienced
with the language) would be treated as a learning experience, discarded and
rewritten.
6. The proper tools would be acquired and kept up to date.

Since these things are rarely done, I think the advantages of Ada gives it an
edge in the software development process and we need every bit of help
possible because most projects are so poorly managed and have time and budget
constraints.

Jerry
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-- Jerry Petrey
-- Senior Principal Systems Engineer - Navigation (GPS/INS), Guidance, &
Control
-- Raytheon Missile Systems          - Member Team Ada & Team Forth
-- NOTE: please remove <NOSPAM> in email address to reply
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------






  parent reply	other threads:[~2003-04-29 16:15 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 107+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2003-04-23  7:06 Ada in Iraq Russ
2003-04-23 10:52 ` Preben Randhol
2003-04-23 10:59   ` Samuel Tardieu
2003-04-23 11:08     ` Preben Randhol
2003-04-23 17:18       ` tmoran
2003-04-23 17:51       ` Russ
2003-04-23 18:07         ` Bill Findlay
2003-04-24  5:51         ` Stefan Scholl
2003-04-24 11:32           ` Vinzent Hoefler
2003-04-24 14:03             ` Wesley Groleau
2003-04-29 16:50               ` Colin Paul Gloster
2003-04-29 17:43               ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-04-30  3:22                 ` Wesley Groleau
2003-04-30 13:37                   ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-04-30 15:13                     ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2003-04-25  1:12         ` Russ
2003-04-25  5:34           ` John R. Strohm
2003-04-26  3:25             ` Wesley Groleau
2003-04-25  5:55           ` Stefan Scholl
2003-04-25  8:20           ` John McCabe
2003-04-25  8:33           ` Anders Wirzenius
2003-05-12 12:01             ` Wesley Parish
2003-04-25 15:01           ` Hyman Rosen
2003-04-25 15:13             ` Samuel Tardieu
2003-04-25 15:46               ` Hyman Rosen
2003-04-28  8:17                 ` John McCabe
2003-04-29 17:43                   ` Colin Paul Gloster
2003-04-25 19:42             ` John R. Strohm
2003-04-25 20:42               ` Hyman Rosen
2003-04-25 23:57                 ` Larry Kilgallen
2003-04-26  6:48                 ` John R. Strohm
2003-04-26 22:24                   ` Frode Tennebø
2003-04-27  3:11                     ` John R. Strohm
2003-04-28  8:20                     ` John McCabe
2003-04-28 21:16                       ` Frode Tennebø
2003-04-29  8:16                         ` John McCabe
2003-04-26  3:38               ` AG
2003-04-27 19:57                 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-04-27 20:32                   ` Preben Randhol
2003-04-26  3:29             ` Wesley Groleau
2003-04-27 20:07               ` Hyman Rosen
2003-04-27 20:37                 ` Preben Randhol
2003-04-27 22:00                   ` Wesley Groleau
2003-04-27 23:19                 ` John R. Strohm
2003-04-28 16:45                   ` Hyman Rosen
2003-04-28 17:33                     ` Preben Randhol
2003-04-28 20:46                       ` Hyman Rosen
2003-04-29  6:21                         ` Preben Randhol
2003-04-29 13:35                           ` Hyman Rosen
2003-04-29 13:57                             ` Steve
2003-04-29 14:02                             ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2003-04-29 14:12                             ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2003-04-29 16:15                             ` Jerry Petrey [this message]
2003-04-30  8:02                               ` John McCabe
2003-04-30 18:20                                 ` Wesley Groleau
2003-04-30 20:14                                 ` Marc A. Criley
2003-04-29 18:40                             ` Wesley Groleau
2003-04-25 17:46           ` Mike Silva
2003-04-25 19:52             ` John R. Strohm
2003-04-26  3:33             ` Wesley Groleau
2003-04-27 20:00               ` Hyman Rosen
2003-04-27 21:55                 ` Wesley Groleau
2003-04-28 17:33                 ` Mike Silva
2003-04-28 17:34                   ` Preben Randhol
2003-04-26 16:18           ` Richard Riehle
2003-04-28  8:29             ` John McCabe
2003-04-28 13:36               ` Steve
2003-04-29 18:33           ` Colin Paul Gloster
2003-04-30  8:09             ` John McCabe
2003-04-30 22:55               ` Colin Paul Gloster
2003-04-25 20:00         ` Simon Wright
2003-04-23 15:51   ` Robert C. Leif
2003-04-23 18:52     ` Bernd Specht
2003-04-23 19:06     ` Preben Randhol
2003-04-24  5:27       ` Robert C. Leif
2003-04-23 20:28     ` Stefan Scholl
2003-04-24  0:39       ` Preben Randhol
2003-04-24  5:27         ` Robert C. Leif
2003-04-24 15:21           ` Preben Randhol
2003-04-24 17:19             ` Jerry Petrey
2003-04-25  8:28               ` John McCabe
2003-04-29 17:08                 ` Colin Paul Gloster
2003-04-30  8:19                   ` John McCabe
2003-04-30 22:59                     ` Colin Paul Gloster
2003-05-01  8:17                       ` John McCabe
2003-04-25 12:38               ` Preben Randhol
2003-04-24  1:36       ` Russ
2003-04-24  5:27       ` Robert C. Leif
2003-04-24  5:55         ` Stefan Scholl
2003-04-24 10:40     ` John McCabe
2003-04-24 14:06       ` Wesley Groleau
2003-04-24 15:24         ` Preben Randhol
2003-04-24 18:17           ` Wesley Groleau
2003-04-25  5:58         ` Stefan Scholl
2003-04-29 17:01           ` [OT derived from] " Colin Paul Gloster
2003-04-23 16:16 ` Marc A. Criley
2003-04-24  2:18 ` BurnsedBW
2003-04-24 15:38   ` Jerry Petrey
     [not found] ` <eb7kn-i6c.ln1@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
2003-04-24 13:47   ` Wesley Groleau
2003-04-25  0:18 ` Richard Riehle
2003-04-25  5:37   ` John R. Strohm
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2003-04-24  2:37 Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2003-04-24 19:45 ` W D Tate
2003-04-25  6:25   ` AG
2003-04-25 16:21 Beard, Frank Randolph CIV
2003-04-25 17:43 Lionel.DRAGHI
2003-04-25 18:53 ` Chad R. Meiners
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