From: "Donald L. Dobbs" <donaldldobbs@cox.net>
Subject: Re: status of PL/I as a viable language
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 18:34:18 GMT
Date: 2003-02-23T18:34:18+00:00 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <3E59147C.9000908@cox.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 1CY5a.280$oY6.106@nwrdny03.gnilink.net
Hyman Rosen wrote:
> Donald L. Dobbs wrote:
>
>> the S.A. wrote an air-tight spec that the coder was to rigorously
>> implement.
>
>
> I've rarely seen domain experts who are capable of producing air-tight
> specs.
> They have several problems. They speak in the language of their domain,
> which
> is not the language of the programmer. They know their domain so well that
> they fail to explain the things which are obvious to them. And because they
> do not think like programmers, their specs rarely cover the
> corner-cases, so
> that they leak badly rather than being air-tight. In fact, they often
> have no
> answer for what to do in these cases, because they have never seen them!
>
You have obviously never worked on a really huge software development
project. Also, you are assuming that no further discourse takes place
between analyst and programmer and that there are no reviews and
checkpoints along the way.
If you have a subject matter expert and an excellent programmer both
assigned to a project you get the best of both worlds. When you try to
find some one individual who purports to be both you end up with
mediocre subject matter expertise compromised by the conflict of
interest because the programmer hat is telling the subject matter hat to
go easy on certain legitimate requirements.
There is tons of crap in the marketplace today that tries to pass itself
off as software. It is usually incomplete from a domain standpoint and
is poorly coded to boot. It takes a beta release and several version
upgrades before the product really becomes useful. The manufacturer is
letting the customer (the subject matter expert in this case) do his
homework for him -- both in design and debugging. We just didn't have
those situations with the products I was associated with.
I've observed both approaches, been involved in both approaches and
experienced both approaches. I merely report my observations and remain
unmoved by your response.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2003-02-23 18:34 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 135+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
[not found] <mHZ0a.42983$jM5.108891@newsfeeds.bigpond.com>
[not found] ` <nRg1a.190899$HG.32437469@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>
[not found] ` <3E51908E.9CCA3412@adaworks.com>
[not found] ` <8Gh4a.7455$_c6.743959@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
[not found] ` <3E51ABCE.5491B9A2@adaworks.com>
[not found] ` <b2spe6$p23$1@helle.btinternet.com>
[not found] ` <3E5273DE.2050206@cox.net>
[not found] ` <3E531E6F.BDFB2599@adaworks.com>
[not found] ` <3E546C45.4010406@cox.net>
2003-02-20 15:49 ` status of PL/I as a viable language Richard Riehle
2003-02-20 16:26 ` Donald L. Dobbs
2003-02-20 17:15 ` Preben Randhol
2003-02-21 6:24 ` Anders Wirzenius
2003-02-21 18:44 ` John R. Strohm
2003-02-20 17:58 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-02-20 18:44 ` John R. Strohm
2003-02-20 19:09 ` Larry Kilgallen
2003-02-20 19:27 ` John R. Strohm
2003-02-20 19:48 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-02-20 21:12 ` John R. Strohm
2003-02-20 21:39 ` Bobby D. Bryant
2003-02-21 20:36 ` Randy Brukardt
2003-02-21 8:33 ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2003-02-20 19:34 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-02-20 19:52 ` Vinzent Hoefler
2003-02-20 20:14 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-02-20 21:20 ` Vinzent Hoefler
2003-02-21 8:14 ` Ondřej Tučný
2003-02-21 14:54 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-02-21 15:05 ` Vinzent Hoefler
2003-02-21 15:55 ` Preben Randhol
2003-02-21 16:45 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-02-21 17:40 ` Preben Randhol
2003-02-21 17:44 ` Preben Randhol
2003-02-21 18:10 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-02-21 18:38 ` Preben Randhol
2003-02-21 18:40 ` Preben Randhol
2003-02-21 18:52 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-02-21 19:24 ` Vinzent Hoefler
2003-02-21 19:57 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-02-21 20:37 ` Vinzent Hoefler
2003-02-21 20:55 ` Randy Brukardt
2003-02-21 18:42 ` Vinzent Hoefler
2003-02-21 18:48 ` John R. Strohm
2003-02-21 20:22 ` Richard Riehle
2003-02-21 20:51 ` Randy Brukardt
2003-02-21 21:29 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-02-21 21:44 ` Vinzent Hoefler
2003-02-23 5:05 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-02-24 16:29 ` Vinzent Hoefler
2003-02-22 11:06 ` Preben Randhol
2003-02-23 22:04 ` tmoran
2003-02-24 9:32 ` Preben Randhol
2003-03-02 2:37 ` AG
2003-03-01 13:46 ` Preben Randhol
2003-03-03 0:57 ` AG
2003-03-02 12:40 ` Preben Randhol
2003-03-02 16:52 ` John R. Strohm
2003-03-03 0:19 ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-03-03 3:03 ` John R. Strohm
2003-03-04 12:11 ` Faust
2003-03-04 15:51 ` OT: Crime Frank J. Lhota
2003-03-03 8:01 ` status of PL/I as a viable language Preben Randhol
2003-02-24 20:15 ` Randy Brukardt
2003-02-25 10:00 ` Preben Randhol
2003-02-26 1:10 ` Randy Brukardt
2003-02-26 18:49 ` Stephen Leake
2003-02-27 12:09 ` Preben Randhol
2003-03-01 18:16 ` Richard Riehle
2003-03-02 1:56 ` AG
[not found] ` <iqeli-c2d.ln1@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
2003-02-23 5:13 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-02-28 10:32 ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2003-02-28 18:52 ` Vinzent Hoefler
2003-02-23 19:19 ` Berend de Boer
2003-02-24 6:19 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-02-20 22:10 ` Peter Flass
2003-02-20 22:26 ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-02-21 9:13 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-02-21 14:56 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-02-21 16:04 ` Preben Randhol
2003-02-21 19:41 ` Mike Silva
2003-02-21 20:41 ` Richard Riehle
2003-02-21 21:46 ` Donald L. Dobbs
2003-02-23 2:23 ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
2003-02-23 5:02 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-02-23 18:34 ` Donald L. Dobbs [this message]
2003-02-24 6:22 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-02-21 19:16 ` John R. Strohm
2003-02-21 19:49 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-02-21 20:32 ` Frank J. Lhota
2003-02-21 20:40 ` John R. Strohm
2003-02-25 10:31 ` Quality (Re: status of PL/I as a viable language) Anders Wirzenius
2003-02-25 13:10 ` Marin David Condic
2003-02-26 6:22 ` Anders Wirzenius
2003-02-26 11:47 ` Larry Kilgallen
2003-02-26 12:40 ` Larry Kilgallen
2003-02-26 13:43 ` Marin David Condic
2003-02-27 7:05 ` Anders Wirzenius
2003-03-01 22:28 ` AG
2003-03-01 12:56 ` Peter Flass
2003-03-01 19:17 ` Frank Clarke
2003-03-01 13:51 ` Anders Wirzenius
2003-03-01 13:54 ` Anders Wirzenius
2003-03-02 18:51 ` AG
2003-03-02 9:55 ` Anders Wirzenius
2003-02-21 20:35 ` status of PL/I as a viable language John R. Strohm
2003-02-21 21:40 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-02-21 22:25 ` John R. Strohm
2003-02-22 10:56 ` Preben Randhol
2003-02-22 19:55 ` Everett M. Greene
2003-02-23 11:15 ` Preben Randhol
2003-02-22 19:55 ` Everett M. Greene
2003-02-22 20:03 ` John R. Strohm
2003-02-22 22:38 ` Larry Kilgallen
2003-02-21 21:44 ` Pointless Harlows
2003-02-22 4:51 ` John W. Kennedy
2003-02-23 0:13 ` James J. Weinkam
2003-02-23 2:28 ` John W. Kennedy
2003-02-22 13:04 ` IEFBR14, was " Peter Flass
2003-02-22 19:08 ` Robert Munck
2003-02-23 9:53 ` Pointless Harlows
2003-02-22 19:31 ` John W. Kennedy
2003-02-23 2:12 ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
2003-02-20 21:45 ` Larry Kilgallen
2003-02-20 22:06 ` Peter Flass
2003-02-20 23:30 ` John R. Strohm
2003-02-21 13:46 ` Peter Flass
2003-02-21 20:33 ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
2003-02-21 20:26 ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
2003-02-20 22:34 ` Larry Kilgallen
[not found] ` <1lagi-b33.ln1@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
2003-02-21 16:09 ` Preben Randhol
2003-02-21 18:10 ` Larry Kilgallen
2003-02-24 12:00 ` Larry Kilgallen
2003-02-21 20:16 ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
2003-02-22 12:57 ` Peter Flass
2003-02-23 2:27 ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
2003-02-21 20:49 ` Donald's F-22 Question Richard Riehle
2003-02-21 22:37 ` Jerry Petrey
2003-02-20 23:00 status of PL/I as a viable language David C. Hoos, Sr.
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2003-02-21 18:17 Lionel.DRAGHI
2003-02-21 18:44 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-02-22 13:26 David C. Hoos, Sr.
2003-02-26 20:55 David C. Hoos
2003-02-27 12:12 ` Preben Randhol
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