Re: Anybody in US using ADA ? New language competition? (long)

["Warren W. Gay VE3WWG" <ve3wwg@cogeco.ca>]

Marin David Condic wrote:
> We're probably at 99% agreement on most of what you've said. I think I'd
> still differ on this one slightly. If somehow you had "all other things
> being equal" to, for example, MSVC++, you'd still be at a disadvantage.
> Suppose you had MSVAda++ that had the GUI builder, class libraries, etc.,
> all for development on a Windows platform. Your sales pitch is: "All other
> things are equal to MSVC++ ***PLUS*** you get added reliability..." I, as
> the potential customer, go down this line of reasoning: Yes, some added
> reliability and possibly some productivity improvement might be there
> *eventually*, but I've already got some heavy investment in MSVC++. I've got
> my personnel trained and I've got some extensive libraries of my own and
> I've got processes built around MSVC++ and its tools, etc. Am I going to
> realize *enough* improvement in my bottom line (profit) from switching to
> MSVAda++ to make it worth the investment I'll have to make and the learning
> curve I'll be up against (possibly delaying delivery of my next few
> projects) or will the return on my investment be too small to offset that
> cost?
> 
> Typically, I'd guess the answer is going to be "No" because that's what it
> has been for twenty years - even back when compilers *didn't* come with huge
> libraries and development tools. (There was a time when all other things
> *were* equal between Ada and C (in some areas) - except possibly for price
> and had Ada's "reliability" been a big enough concern, that would have
> offset the price issue.)

Well, there is no doubt in my mind, that you are right about the
existing "momentum". I think of this kind of change as reversing
a large ship in the Welland canal system ;-)

Agreed, that where an existing investment in custom libraries and code,
a MSVAda++ as you say, is not likely to change much (although, you
could, with this capability, start to write subroutines that might
inteface still).

However, as programmers in droves are looking at C# and Java for
a "better way" (read "easier way"), I don't think they would be
hostile to the Ada language for new projects (of which, I see many,
which don't start on a big existing framework).  Assuming that
MSVAda++ had equal access to all of that MS kludgey API stuff,
then each new GUI client program is a perfect candidate for trying
something new.

After reliability, if you sell the developer on the nice programer
conveniences of Ada, like A'First, A'Last, for ... A'Range,
discriminated records, easy tasking etc., I think most programmers
would welcome a high level, easier to read on the programmer
tool.

The reason these things don't matter right now, is that Ada does
not enjoy equal API access on neither Windows or UNIX. GNAT, I
believe has gone a long way to make this better, as do other
efforts such as CLAW (though I've not looked at it much yet).
But it is still much less than equal.

Until it enjoys equal or better status, programmers just moan
when you tell them that you have to blaze a few new trails
on their own, writing pragma import statements and the like.

> Now if Ada waltzed in the door with bindings to everything and huge
> libraries to compete with anything the other guys had and development tools
> to make it just as easy to get an app running *AND* threw something else on
> top that cut 50% of the development time for some domain (and then said: "Oh
> yes. By the way. You're apps will be more reliable and cost less over time
> as well.") it would be much more likely to make the sale. I just don't see
> reliability and life cycle cost as having much success in the past, so I
> think we ought to find and push another angle.
> 
> MDC
> --
> ======================================================================
> Marin David Condic

You might be right about this, but reliability doesn't have a chance
when other things are not equal.

But I think we basically agree. You've raised some interesting points.

-- 
Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
http://home.cogeco.ca/~ve3wwg