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From: Richard Riehle <richard@adaworks.com>
Subject: Re: IBM Acquires Rational Ada
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 22:06:22 -0800
Date: 2002-12-13T05:58:19+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <3DF978DE.B4C2A2C1@adaworks.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 3DF8D8BF.9020606@cogeco.ca

"Warren W. Gay VE3WWG" wrote:

> But consider the challenges of a Windows programmer that wants to write his
> application in Ada:
>
>   - A user interface beyond tty (console) mode is required (text or GUI)
>   - Database access is required (very few serious applications can do
>     without this).
>   - O/S interfaces (e.g. printing and registry)
>   - Network APIs

Some of this list is easily dealt with.   I believe a serious Windows
developer would use CLAW for the GUI.    However, the database
issue is more serious.

We once had AdaSage for good database support, but that has vanished
from the landscape.   There was a company in Santa Clara, CA that
once developed a full relational database in Ada for Ada, but that has
also vanished.   Oracle seems to have de-escalated support for Ada,
and I'm not sure of the status of other database bindings that once
existed.

So, if someone were to create a database product in Ada for Ada, would
there be a market for it?  Oh, I see.  We distribute it via the FSF under the
GPL.  Who can afford the time to do that.  Most Ada programmers I know
are working full-time jobs and don't have the luxury of creating free
software.   OK.  Will someone fund such development?   Well, there's
no one left in the Ada industry with enough money to do this kind of
thing.

Randy and Tom are struggling to keep CLAW going as a viable
commercial venture.   Compiler publishers are stuggling to keep
the cash flow flowing.   There is no one in the DoD willing to
break free money for anything related to Ada these days.

We lost the opportunity when we had it.   So much focus on embedded
systems and little on database systems.   Well, the compiler companies
had no interest in commercial sales of Ada (or the compilers would
have been priced more reasonably).  As long as the DoD was a captive
customer, there was no incentive for competitive product pricing.

ACT has done great things for democratizing Ada.  We can hope it
is not too late.  Just today, one of my international students delivered
a presentation for his final project in my software risk management
class comparing the risks of Ada to the risks of C++.   As a language,
absent all other issues, Ada still wins over C++.  When one considers
the above list given by Mr. Gay, the situation is much gloomier.

What can we do to fix this?   How can we take a superior language
technology, one for which compilers are now in the affordable
range, and make available the necessary tools, at reasonable
prices, to make it a more attractive alternative?

Richard Riehle




  parent reply	other threads:[~2002-12-13  6:06 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 182+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2002-12-07  2:47 IBM Acquires Rational Ada Richard Riehle
2002-12-07  8:24 ` achrist
2002-12-08  1:46   ` Richard Riehle
2002-12-08 14:45     ` Steven Deller
2002-12-08 20:20       ` Richard Riehle
2002-12-09 14:26       ` Wes Groleau
2002-12-11 18:25       ` achrist
2002-12-11 19:29         ` Martin Dowie
2002-12-22  2:07           ` faust
2002-12-21 18:08       ` faust
2002-12-08 17:18     ` steve_H
2002-12-08 20:11       ` Steven Deller
2002-12-09 14:24         ` Wes Groleau
2002-12-09 15:23           ` John McCabe
2002-12-09 16:55             ` Wes Groleau
2002-12-08 23:31       ` Christopher Browne
2002-12-09 10:30       ` John McCabe
2002-12-09 14:11         ` Georg Bauhaus
2002-12-09 14:32           ` Pat Rogers
2002-12-09 15:42         ` Simon Wright
2002-12-12 14:41           ` Alvery Grazebrook
2002-12-12 21:13             ` Martin Dowie
2002-12-16 13:24               ` UML to Ada Mapping Alvery Grazebrook
2002-12-17  8:27             ` IBM Acquires Rational Ada Simon Wright
2002-12-10 22:43       ` Andreas Almroth
2002-12-09 13:09     ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-09 22:45       ` steve_H
2002-12-10 13:50         ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-10 17:47           ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2002-12-10 20:21             ` Wes Groleau
2002-12-10 22:05               ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2002-12-11  2:50                 ` steve_H
2002-12-11  8:51                   ` OT: Word processing (was: Re: IBM Acquires Rational Ada) Anders Wirzenius
2002-12-11 13:45                   ` IBM Acquires Rational Ada Marin David Condic
2002-12-11 14:46                     ` Wes Groleau
2002-12-12 13:07                       ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-12 18:19                         ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2002-12-12 19:12                           ` Wes Groleau
2002-12-13 12:25                           ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-13 17:41                             ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2002-12-13 18:20                               ` Wes Groleau
2002-12-13 21:49                                 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
     [not found]                                   ` <KIkL9.2260$c6.2599@bos-service2.ext.raytheon.com>
2002-12-16 18:12                                     ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2002-12-17 21:25                                       ` Wes Groleau
2002-12-16 18:54                                     ` John R. Strohm
2002-12-16 22:23                             ` Randy Brukardt
2002-12-17 14:47                               ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-17 20:17                                 ` Randy Brukardt
2002-12-16 10:11                           ` calenday (was " Peter Hermann
2002-12-16 18:38                             ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2002-12-16 19:04                               ` Bill Findlay
2002-12-16 20:25                                 ` David C. Hoos
2002-12-16 20:37                                   ` Bill Findlay
2002-12-16 21:41                                     ` David C. Hoos
2002-12-16 22:11                                       ` Bill Findlay
2002-12-17 15:47                                         ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2002-12-17 16:26                                           ` Peter Hermann
2002-12-17 16:37                                             ` Bill Findlay
2002-12-16 22:32                                   ` tmoran
2002-12-16 22:21                               ` Hyman Rosen
2002-12-17  8:07                               ` Simon Wright
2002-12-19 12:23                             ` Frank Piron
2002-12-19 12:33                               ` Karel Miklav
2002-12-19 13:24                               ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-17 14:46                           ` Robert A Duff
2002-12-17 19:08                             ` tmoran
2002-12-17 19:15                               ` Bill Findlay
2002-12-17 20:00                               ` Hyman Rosen
2002-12-17 19:48                                 ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-12-17 20:08                               ` David C. Hoos
2002-12-17 20:52                               ` Dennis Lee Bieber
2002-12-17 21:43                               ` Steven Murdoch
2002-12-17 16:39                           ` Robert A Duff
     [not found]                           ` <atk8s0$7dm$1@news.uni <wccn0n4oazy.fsf@shell01.TheWorld.com>
2002-12-18 13:20                             ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-18 15:17                               ` Robert A Duff
2002-12-18 17:58                                 ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-19  8:48                                   ` tmoran
2002-12-19 13:18                                     ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-19 20:46                                       ` Randy Brukardt
2002-12-20 12:23                                         ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-12-20 21:35                                           ` Randy Brukardt
2002-12-20 13:15                                         ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-20 12:19                                           ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-12-21 15:48                                             ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-21 14:54                                               ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-12-20 18:49                                           ` Hyman Rosen
2002-12-20 19:48                                             ` Frank J. Lhota
2002-12-20 21:29                                               ` Randy Brukardt
2002-12-23  2:05                                                 ` AG
2002-12-27 20:43                                                   ` Randy Brukardt
2002-12-21 15:59                                               ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-20 21:49                                           ` Randy Brukardt
2002-12-18 18:57                           ` Robert A Duff
     [not found]                           ` <atk8s0$7dm$1@news.uni <wcc4r9b40ka.fsf@shell01.TheWorld.com>
2002-12-18 19:16                             ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2002-12-18 22:03                               ` Randy Brukardt
2002-12-18 22:00                             ` Randy Brukardt
2002-12-18 22:39                               ` Robert A Duff
2002-12-19  2:41                             ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-19 11:47                           ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-12-13 14:18                       ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-12-13 17:07                       ` Larry Kilgallen
     [not found]                       ` <ata1n7$g5g$1@slb4.atlOrganization: LJK Software <uaDr7xp1zlGD@eisner.encompasserve.org>
2002-12-13 21:52                         ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2002-12-14 14:01                         ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-14 20:01                           ` tmoran
2002-12-16 18:48                           ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2002-12-16 23:01                             ` Ed Cogburn
2002-12-11 14:59                     ` Hyman Rosen
2002-12-11 18:33                       ` Wes Groleau
2002-12-11 20:51                       ` steve_H
2002-12-11 21:40                         ` Hyman Rosen
2002-12-12 18:24                         ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2002-12-24  4:16                           ` David Thompson
2002-12-11 21:54                       ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-12-11 23:22                       ` Robert A Duff
2002-12-12 16:44                         ` Hyman Rosen
2002-12-12 17:14                           ` Fraser Wilson
2002-12-12 18:33                             ` Hyman Rosen
2002-12-12 19:16                               ` Wes Groleau
2002-12-13 21:26                                 ` Programmer Dude
2002-12-16 19:27                               ` John R. Strohm
2002-12-16 20:08                                 ` Hyman Rosen
     [not found]                       ` <8db3d6c8.0212111251.1ecca62e@po <wccel8of8dv.fsf@shell01.TheWorld.com>
2002-12-12 10:07                         ` John English
2002-12-13  0:53                           ` Zaphod
2002-12-12 13:20                       ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-11 19:04                     ` tmoran
2002-12-11 19:20                     ` Jeffrey Carter
2002-12-12 13:34                       ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-12 17:04                         ` Hyman Rosen
2002-12-12 18:17                           ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-13  9:17                             ` Peter Amey
2002-12-13 12:43                               ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-13 15:46                                 ` Robert Spooner
2002-12-14 14:15                                   ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-15 10:30                                     ` Ingo Marks
2002-12-15 13:54                                       ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-15 19:20                                         ` tmoran
2002-12-16 13:20                                           ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-17 15:41                                             ` steve_H
2002-12-18 13:11                                               ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-16 13:43                                           ` Wes Groleau
2002-12-11 13:33             ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-12 18:43               ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2002-12-12 19:53                 ` tmoran
2002-12-13  6:06                 ` Richard Riehle [this message]
2002-12-13 10:22                   ` Ed Cogburn
2002-12-13 13:07                   ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-13 14:16                     ` Wes Groleau
2002-12-13 21:27                       ` Jeffrey Carter
2002-12-13 21:27                       ` Jeffrey Carter
2002-12-14 14:25                       ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-16 13:56                         ` Wes Groleau
2002-12-17 15:04                           ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-17 21:29                             ` Wes Groleau
2002-12-18 13:31                               ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-22  2:41                       ` faust
2002-12-13 14:13                   ` Wes Groleau
2002-12-22  2:47                     ` faust
2002-12-13 17:55                   ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2002-12-13 21:55                     ` Dennis Lee Bieber
2002-12-16 13:58                       ` Wes Groleau
2002-12-14  0:14                     ` steve_H
2002-12-16 19:00                       ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2002-12-14 12:58                     ` Tarjei T. Jensen
2002-12-19  9:53                     ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2002-12-19 16:17                       ` Tarjei T. Jensen
2002-12-19 17:27                         ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2002-12-19 22:51                       ` Michael Bode
2002-12-13 12:51                 ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-14 19:51               ` GianLuigi Piacentini
2002-12-14 20:35                 ` Dennis Lee Bieber
2002-12-21 17:41     ` faust
2002-12-21 17:40 ` IBM , the kiss of death ( Re: IBM Acquires Rational Ada) faust
2003-01-06 22:24 ` IBM Acquires Rational Ada Don Westermeyer
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2002-12-12 12:56 Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2002-12-13  6:43 Grein, Christoph
2002-12-16  5:15 ` Hyman Rosen
2002-12-16  7:19   ` Richard Riehle
2002-12-17 22:51     ` Kevin Cline
2002-12-18 18:28       ` Wes Groleau
2002-12-18 18:48         ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2002-12-20  5:11           ` Kevin Cline
2002-12-22  2:39             ` faust
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