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From: Richard Riehle <richard@adaworks.com>
Subject: Re: Is strong typing worth the cost?
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 21:01:42 -0700
Date: 2002-05-01T03:59:51+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <3CCF68A6.F984E649@adaworks.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: Xns9200929868B11derekknosofcouk@62.253.162.107

dmjones wrote:

> The real problem with the discussion so far is that it has
> only mentioned the benefits.  What about the costs?

When developing software with a significant dependability requirement
you may want to believe you cannot afford type safety.   However, in the
words of an insurance agent, when told by a prospect he cannot afford to
buy a particular kind of insurance, "Mr. Jones, you can't afford not to buy

this policy."     What level of insurance do you want to offset the risk
when
delivering a reliable system on-time and within budget?   Perhaps, when
assessing cost, we might say, "Mr. Jones, you can't afford not to use
type safety."

It is not clear what costs you mean.   It is also not clear
what you mean by "strong typing."    A type is characterized by:

               A type name
               A set of values
               A set of operations
               A set of rules relative to objects of other types

Nearly every language has types.   Therefore, nearly every
language has some level of type safety.  I think what you mean
by strong typing is the rigor of type safety.  Even COBOL has
a certain amount of type safety.  For example, one cannot
add a PICTURE XX to a PICTURE 99.

Is there a cost associated with type safety?  Is there a corresponding
cost associated with lack of type safety?    In Ada, type safety begins
earlier in the development process than in most languages.   For small,
programs, extensive reliance on type safety is probably overkill.   As
an application gets larger,  type safety tends to scale nicely with the
demands and complexity of that larger set of code.   The cost of resorting
to the debugger, examining lots of cross-reference listings, and prowling
through hexadecimal dumps can be expensive on large-scale software.

So the cost of type safety, if there is a cost,  on small, relatively easy
programs may not not offset the ease of invoking debugging tools. But
as that program grows, and as more programmers work on modules that
must interface with each other, the cost of type safety tends to be
cancelled out by the cost of debugging efforts.

Richard Riehle





  parent reply	other threads:[~2002-05-01  4:01 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 166+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2002-04-28 17:07 Is strong typing worth the cost? dmjones
2002-04-29 15:22 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-29 15:53   ` Pat Rogers
2002-04-29 18:37   ` dmjones
2002-04-29 18:50     ` Pat Rogers
2002-04-29 19:00     ` Darren New
2002-04-30 11:50     ` Marc A. Criley
2002-04-30 13:24       ` dmjones
2002-04-30 15:03         ` Jim Rogers
2002-04-30 16:48           ` dmjones
2002-04-30 17:45             ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-01 21:36               ` Brian Gaffney
2002-04-30 18:20             ` tmoran
2002-04-30 19:00               ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-01 15:20                 ` dmjones
2002-05-01 16:07                   ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-02  5:00                     ` Simon Wright
2002-05-02  7:55                   ` Martin Dowie
2002-05-01 16:51                 ` Darren New
2002-05-01 17:25                   ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-02 16:09                     ` Darren New
2002-05-03 13:46                       ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-03 22:54                         ` Darren New
2002-05-01 18:22                 ` tmoran
2002-05-01 18:50                   ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-01 20:30                   ` Dan Andreatta
2002-05-01 21:47                     ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-05-02 15:43                     ` Wes Groleau
2002-04-30 19:01             ` Preben Randhol
2002-04-30 19:28               ` Preben Randhol
2002-04-30 20:20                 ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-01  8:36                   ` Pascal Obry
2002-05-01 11:50                     ` Gary Scott
2002-05-01 13:39                       ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-02  2:24                         ` Darren New
2002-05-02 15:47                           ` Wes Groleau
2002-05-02 16:37                             ` Darren New
2002-05-02 19:59                               ` Chad R. Meiners
2002-05-02 21:48                                 ` Darren New
2002-05-02 22:16                                   ` Wes Groleau
2002-05-02 23:52                                     ` Darren New
2002-05-03  0:17                                       ` Aidan Skinner
2002-05-03  0:31                                         ` Aidan Skinner
2002-05-03 15:10                                       ` Wes Groleau
2002-05-03 16:06                                         ` Darren New
2002-05-06 16:37                                           ` Wes Groleau
2002-05-06 17:40                                             ` Darren New
2002-05-07  2:06                                               ` tmoran
2002-05-07 15:21                                                 ` Darren New
2002-05-07 19:11                                                   ` Preben Randhol
2002-05-03 15:31                                       ` Wes Groleau
2002-05-03 16:21                                         ` Darren New
2002-05-06 15:33                                           ` Wes Groleau
2002-05-06 16:30                                             ` Darren New
2002-05-03 15:38                                       ` Wes Groleau
2002-05-03 16:07                                         ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-03 19:51                                       ` Randy Brukardt
2002-05-03 20:55                                         ` Ed Falis
2002-05-04 16:34                                           ` Brian Rogoff
2002-05-03  0:22                                   ` Chad R. Meiners
2002-05-03  0:48                                     ` Darren New
2002-05-03 12:11                                       ` Chad R. Meiners
2002-05-03 14:27                                         ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-04  0:23                                           ` Darren New
2002-05-06 17:54                                             ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-07 15:28                                               ` Darren New
2002-05-07 17:54                                                 ` Chad R. Meiners
2002-05-03 14:01                           ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-03 23:41                             ` Gary Scott
2002-05-06 18:05                               ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-01 14:19                       ` Pascal Obry
2002-05-01 13:27                     ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-01 14:28                     ` Wes Groleau
2002-05-01 15:25                       ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-02 15:51                       ` Wes Groleau
2002-05-02 16:47                         ` Gary Scott
2002-05-02 18:24                           ` Preben Randhol
2002-05-02 18:48                             ` Dan Nagle
2002-05-03  8:44                               ` Preben Randhol
2002-05-03 10:17                                 ` Gary Scott
2002-05-03 10:48                                   ` Preben Randhol
2002-05-03 13:13                                     ` Gary Scott
2002-05-03 14:40                                       ` Preben Randhol
2002-05-03 14:32                                 ` Dan Nagle
2002-05-02 17:26                         ` Larry Hazel
2002-05-02 18:12                           ` Wes Groleau
2002-05-02 18:40                             ` Preben Randhol
2002-05-02 21:54                               ` Wes Groleau
2002-05-02 18:54                           ` Gary Scott
2002-05-02 21:56                             ` Wes Groleau
2002-05-26 17:56                           ` Robert I. Eachus
2002-05-26 22:04                             ` Brian Rogoff
2002-05-27 23:26                               ` Robert I. Eachus
2002-05-28 15:26                             ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-02 11:30                     ` Larry Kilgallen
     [not found]                     ` <3CCFD76A.A60BB9Organization: LJK Software <Sb8D81Zz$HcE@eisner.encompasserve.org>
2002-05-02 16:12                       ` Darren New
2002-04-30 21:17             ` Jim Rogers
2002-04-30 21:30               ` Darren New
2002-05-07 12:17           ` Colin Paul Gloster
2002-05-07 22:11             ` Hyman Rosen
2002-04-30 15:39         ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-01 14:39           ` Wes Groleau
2002-05-01 15:42             ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-02 20:17               ` Jeffrey Carter
2002-05-03 14:40                 ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-26 16:51               ` Robert I. Eachus
2002-05-28 15:16                 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-30 17:02         ` Chad R. Meiners
2002-04-30 17:27           ` Darren New
2002-04-30 20:15             ` Chad R. Meiners
2002-04-30 20:42               ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-02 12:00                 ` Marc A. Criley
2002-05-02 15:20                   ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-05-02 16:19                   ` Darren New
2002-05-03 14:44                   ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-30 21:40               ` Darren New
2002-04-30 21:43             ` tmoran
2002-04-30 22:38               ` Darren New
2002-04-30 18:04           ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-30 17:27         ` Jeffrey Carter
2002-04-30 17:35         ` Marc A. Criley
2002-05-01  4:01         ` Richard Riehle [this message]
2002-04-29 16:02 ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-01  0:31 ` dmjones
2002-05-01  8:05   ` Preben Randhol
2002-05-01  8:07   ` Preben Randhol
2002-05-01 14:32   ` Mike Silva
2002-05-01 15:52     ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-02 16:17     ` Wes Groleau
2002-05-02 18:53       ` tmoran
2002-05-02 18:58         ` Pat Rogers
2002-05-01 15:35   ` Jim Rogers
2002-05-01 16:17     ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-01 18:42     ` dmjones
2002-05-01 20:12       ` Dan Andreatta
2002-05-01 20:19       ` Darren New
2002-05-01 22:17         ` Jeffrey Carter
2002-05-02 16:18           ` Wes Groleau
2002-05-01 21:46       ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-05-01 22:21       ` Jeffrey Carter
2002-05-02 11:28         ` John English
2002-05-02 16:18           ` Darren New
2002-05-02 16:41             ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-05-02 18:28               ` Preben Randhol
2002-05-02 19:53                 ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-05-03 12:12                 ` Andrzej Filip
2002-05-03 10:14             ` Georg Bauhaus
2002-05-26 22:46               ` Robert I. Eachus
2002-05-27  8:10           ` Florian Weimer
2002-05-01 22:47       ` Jim Rogers
2002-05-01 16:32   ` Jeffrey Carter
2002-05-01 17:59     ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-01 19:08     ` Wes Groleau
2002-05-01 21:10   ` Brian Gaffney
2002-05-03  2:45 ` dmjones
2002-05-03  7:59   ` Martin Dowie
2002-05-03  8:43     ` Preben Randhol
2002-05-03  8:55       ` Martin Dowie
2002-05-03  8:51   ` Preben Randhol
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2002-04-29 19:21 Beard, Frank [Contractor]
2002-04-29 20:15 ` dmjones
2002-04-29 23:26 Beard, Frank [Contractor]
2002-04-30 18:08 Beard, Frank [Contractor]
2002-05-01 11:07 ` David Gillon
2002-04-30 20:32 Beard, Frank [Contractor]
2002-04-30 21:34 Gralia, Mars  J.
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