From: Ted Dennison <dennison@telepath.com>
Subject: Re: Grace and Maps (was Re: Development process in the Ada community)
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 02:18:46 GMT
Date: 2002-04-23T02:18:46+00:00 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <3CC4C4DC.2090405@telepath.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 3CC45A0A.20406@snafu.de
Michael Erdmann wrote:
> Working in a group on an exsiting reference implementation (which
> might be even a bad solution) is more open source style working then
> trying to get some kind of consensus in such a loosly connected
> community as comp.lang.ada is!
ESR's theory about "OpenSource" development mostly talks about just
that: development. Before development you have to do some kind of
design, and before that you have to do some kind of requirements
analysis. ESR does mention that most OpenSource projects have it fairly
easy in the RA department, either because their requirements are "clone
*this* BSD Unix command", or because they start life as one person's
personal playtoy and grow organicly from there.
We don't have either of those advantages here, so we must do real
requriements analysis. We can do it by actually trying to achieve
consensus up front, or by fighting in circles around differing
implementations created from differing philosophies. The former method
is ususally much quicker.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2002-04-23 2:18 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 425+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2002-04-10 16:33 Development process in the Ada community Michael Erdmann
2002-04-10 23:28 ` Randy Brukardt
2002-04-11 4:53 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-11 7:34 ` Petter Fryklund
2002-04-11 16:39 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-11 8:37 ` Eric G. Miller
2002-04-11 13:27 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-12 12:33 ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-04-12 12:56 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-12 23:59 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-11 17:26 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-11 10:41 ` Martin Dowie
2002-04-11 16:50 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-11 18:21 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-12 4:43 ` tmoran
2002-04-12 11:13 ` Claw thick bindings to sockets (was: Development process in the Ada..) Larry Kilgallen
2002-04-12 17:22 ` tmoran
2002-04-12 21:24 ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-04-12 23:18 ` tmoran
2002-04-12 23:19 ` Development process in the Ada community tony
2002-04-12 23:52 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-15 14:35 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-11 20:26 ` Randy Brukardt
2002-04-11 12:38 ` Jim Rogers
2002-04-11 16:48 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-11 18:09 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-11 18:26 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-11 21:05 ` Randy Brukardt
2002-04-11 22:26 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-12 13:13 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-15 14:28 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-15 17:53 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-12 8:35 ` Ingo Marks
2002-04-12 14:37 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-12 15:44 ` Georg Bauhaus
2002-04-11 21:14 ` Rant! (was) " Kent Paul Dolan
2002-04-11 23:20 ` tony
2002-04-12 0:55 ` Chad R. Meiners
2002-04-12 1:21 ` Pat Rogers
2002-04-12 15:57 ` Georg Bauhaus
2002-04-12 22:20 ` Chad R. Meiners
2002-04-12 21:02 ` --off topic " tony
2002-04-12 23:52 ` Chad R. Meiners
2002-04-14 10:57 ` Georg Bauhaus
2002-04-14 22:17 ` Chad R. Meiners
2002-04-12 14:57 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-12 23:12 ` tony
2002-04-12 10:10 ` Ingo Marks
2002-04-12 11:11 ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-04-12 23:18 ` tmoran
2002-04-12 17:22 ` Florian Weimer
2002-04-12 17:38 ` Mário Amado Alves
2002-04-12 18:29 ` Kent Paul Dolan
2002-04-13 3:30 ` Robert Dewar
2002-04-13 10:12 ` martin.m.dowie
2002-04-13 13:21 ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-04-13 13:39 ` martin.m.dowie
2002-04-13 14:12 ` Gary Scott
2002-04-13 14:20 ` Robert Dewar
2002-04-13 16:03 ` martin.m.dowie
2002-04-15 15:03 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-16 8:30 ` Frank
2002-04-21 11:35 ` Michal Nowak
2002-04-16 15:43 ` martin.m.dowie
2002-04-16 16:53 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-17 6:16 ` martin.m.dowie
2002-04-17 12:55 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-17 7:50 ` Ingo Marks
2002-04-17 12:01 ` Gary Scott
2002-04-17 13:29 ` Robert Dewar
2002-04-17 18:40 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-18 15:02 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-18 15:28 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-17 13:29 ` Robert Dewar
2002-04-17 19:31 ` Chad R. Meiners
2002-04-18 14:15 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-18 18:35 ` Paranoia about .NET (still): " Kent Paul Dolan
2002-04-18 21:43 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-19 11:49 ` Robert Dewar
2002-04-19 23:34 ` Kent Paul Dolan
2002-04-19 23:14 ` rc211v
2002-04-20 3:00 ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-04-23 17:27 ` Wish List : Ada95 to FOX Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2002-04-23 19:24 ` Stephen Leake
2002-04-23 19:30 ` Randy Brukardt
2002-04-26 22:06 ` rc211v
2002-04-24 0:00 ` Jeffrey Carter
[not found] ` <3CC5997E.4 <3CC5F5B0.DBC6A6B8@boeing.com>
2002-04-24 8:47 ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2002-04-24 15:15 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-16 1:41 ` Rant! (was) Development process in the Ada community Richard Riehle
2002-04-16 19:40 ` [OT] MS vs Linux vs who in the student heart? (still mostly): " Kent Paul Dolan
2002-04-17 2:09 ` Adrian Hoe
2002-04-12 21:17 ` Wes Groleau
2002-04-13 0:23 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-13 22:07 ` Kent Paul Dolan
2002-04-14 8:01 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-14 10:24 ` Ingo Marks
2002-04-14 10:26 ` Ingo Marks
2002-04-14 11:41 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-14 12:48 ` Ingo Marks
2002-04-14 13:42 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-17 3:13 ` Richard Riehle
2002-04-17 13:19 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-14 14:44 ` Gary Scott
2002-04-14 15:44 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-14 15:54 ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-04-14 16:33 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-14 21:46 ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-04-15 15:39 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-16 16:34 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-16 17:28 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-17 17:02 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-17 21:09 ` Kent Paul Dolan
2002-04-17 21:25 ` Darren New
2002-04-17 23:14 ` Kent Paul Dolan
2002-04-17 23:24 ` Darren New
2002-04-18 4:34 ` Eric G. Miller
2002-04-18 14:08 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-18 18:34 ` Al Reynolds
2002-04-18 19:15 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-18 20:03 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-18 20:45 ` Ingo Marks
2002-04-18 4:42 ` Kent Paul Dolan
2002-04-18 13:16 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-18 13:54 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-18 18:25 ` Kent Paul Dolan
2002-04-18 19:05 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-18 21:41 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-18 17:12 ` Pascal Obry
2002-04-15 15:11 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-15 15:28 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-16 16:53 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-16 17:49 ` Ingo Marks
2002-04-16 17:57 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-18 14:04 ` Bill Tate
2002-04-18 14:45 ` Gary Scott
2002-04-18 20:12 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-18 20:09 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-13 0:59 ` Robert Dewar
2002-04-13 7:38 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-13 7:46 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-13 13:24 ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-04-13 16:01 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-13 17:18 ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-04-13 19:02 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-13 21:34 ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-04-14 8:28 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-14 16:00 ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-04-13 22:24 ` Kent Paul Dolan
2002-04-14 0:00 ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-04-15 3:03 ` Kent Paul Dolan
2002-04-14 3:04 ` Gary Scott
2002-04-15 3:00 ` Kent Paul Dolan
2002-04-16 2:37 ` Gary Scott
2002-04-14 8:51 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-14 9:52 ` Georg Bauhaus
2002-04-14 10:37 ` Ingo Marks
2002-04-14 11:50 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-14 20:41 ` tmoran
2002-04-15 14:45 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-15 15:59 ` Kent Paul Dolan
2002-04-15 19:45 ` Randy Brukardt
2002-04-17 16:29 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-17 22:30 ` Randy Brukardt
2002-04-21 5:56 ` David Botton
2002-04-21 7:13 ` tmoran
2002-04-21 21:14 ` David Botton
2002-04-22 21:46 ` Randy Brukardt
2002-04-23 4:47 ` GPL and the big picture (was Re: Development process in the Ada community) David Botton
2002-04-23 5:11 ` David Botton
2002-04-24 19:52 ` Randy Brukardt
2002-04-21 11:02 ` Development process in the Ada community Adrian Hoe
2002-04-21 21:21 ` David Botton
2002-04-15 22:02 ` tmoran
2002-04-17 16:55 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-17 17:15 ` Stephen Leake
2002-04-17 18:01 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-18 19:22 ` Stephen Leake
2002-04-21 5:35 ` David Botton
2002-04-21 5:34 ` David Botton
2002-04-18 5:12 ` Eric G. Miller
2002-04-18 13:31 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-19 2:50 ` Eric G. Miller
2002-04-21 5:33 ` David Botton
2002-04-17 3:25 ` Richard Riehle
2002-04-17 5:07 ` Open Source: in conflict with the development process in the Ada community? Kent Paul Dolan
2002-04-17 10:14 ` Hyman Rosen
2002-04-17 13:20 ` Robert Dewar
2002-04-17 14:06 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-19 14:20 ` Robert Dewar
2002-04-19 16:04 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-22 13:44 ` Robert Dewar
2002-04-19 23:48 ` How Open Source software developers pay the bills, from within a successful such operation (was): " Kent Paul Dolan
2002-04-20 16:41 ` Robert Dewar
2002-04-20 18:08 ` Florian Weimer
2002-04-21 0:38 ` Robert Dewar
2002-04-21 1:44 ` Robert Dewar
2002-04-22 16:06 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-23 12:44 ` Robert Dewar
2002-04-23 20:48 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-23 23:50 ` Jeffrey Carter
2002-04-20 6:28 ` tmoran
2002-04-20 6:53 ` Florian Weimer
2002-04-20 11:53 ` Frank J. Lhota
2002-04-20 13:14 ` Florian Weimer
2002-04-20 14:50 ` Frank J. Lhota
2002-04-21 11:13 ` Ingo Marks
2002-04-21 21:23 ` Darren New
2002-04-22 13:42 ` Robert Dewar
2002-04-22 16:11 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-20 16:07 ` Robert Dewar
2002-04-17 13:53 ` Development process in the Ada community Marin David Condic
2002-04-18 14:50 ` Stephen Leake
2002-04-18 15:43 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-19 5:23 ` Simon Wright
2002-04-22 15:41 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-17 17:58 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-17 20:39 ` Stephen Leake
2002-04-17 20:54 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-18 15:43 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-17 22:18 ` Randy Brukardt
2002-04-18 15:39 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-19 3:16 ` Randy Brukardt
2002-04-20 5:56 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-20 16:30 ` Robert Dewar
2002-04-20 18:31 ` tmoran
2002-04-20 21:32 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-22 0:30 ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-04-22 13:40 ` Robert Dewar
2002-04-22 14:27 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-22 17:40 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-22 17:48 ` Robert Dewar
2002-04-21 0:57 ` Robert Dewar
2002-04-21 5:23 ` tmoran
2002-04-21 15:59 ` Robert Dewar
2002-04-21 17:47 ` tmoran
2002-04-21 1:03 ` Robert Dewar
2002-04-21 9:07 ` Florian Weimer
2002-04-22 15:11 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-23 15:38 ` Hyman Rosen
2002-04-23 16:03 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-20 19:41 ` tmoran
2002-04-21 0:28 ` Richard Riehle
2002-04-21 0:33 ` Jason King
2002-04-22 15:22 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-23 4:09 ` Randy Brukardt
2002-04-23 5:30 ` Simon Wright
2002-04-26 18:25 ` Randy Brukardt
2002-04-29 14:44 ` Shared generics Hyman Rosen
2002-04-29 19:47 ` Randy Brukardt
2002-04-23 13:28 ` Development process in the Ada community Marin David Condic
2002-04-20 21:16 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-15 17:19 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-17 18:09 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-17 20:42 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-16 8:29 ` Georg Bauhaus
2002-04-16 13:31 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-16 17:46 ` tmoran
2002-04-17 3:34 ` Richard Riehle
2002-04-17 12:11 ` John English
2002-04-15 16:29 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-16 11:28 ` Martin Dowie
2002-04-16 13:38 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-17 18:36 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-17 20:14 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-18 16:00 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-18 17:32 ` Hyman Rosen
2002-04-18 17:48 ` Grace and Maps (was Re: Development process in the Ada community) Marin David Condic
2002-04-19 13:29 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-19 14:23 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-20 13:42 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-20 19:54 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-22 13:21 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-20 19:12 ` Jeffrey Carter
2002-04-22 13:40 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-20 19:49 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-21 1:33 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-21 5:49 ` Simon Wright
2002-04-21 8:55 ` Hyman Rosen
2002-04-21 18:49 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-21 20:17 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-22 0:36 ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-04-22 5:20 ` Simon Wright
2002-04-22 13:34 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-22 16:16 ` Darren New
2002-04-22 22:31 ` Jeffrey Carter
[not found] ` <4519e058.0204220534.2eb33730@posting.go <3CC48F34.5A474E0F@boeing.com>
2002-04-22 23:26 ` Darren New
2002-04-23 2:15 ` Jeffrey Carter
2002-04-23 4:57 ` Darren New
2002-04-23 7:10 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2002-04-23 14:52 ` Stephen Leake
2002-04-23 19:08 ` Darren New
2002-04-24 12:22 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2002-04-24 13:53 ` Darren New
2002-04-24 15:02 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2002-04-24 15:25 ` Darren New
2002-04-24 15:39 ` Darren New
2002-04-24 19:32 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2002-04-24 19:58 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2002-04-24 19:14 ` Randy Brukardt
2002-04-24 20:01 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2002-04-24 20:09 ` Darren New
2002-04-23 12:49 ` Alan Reynolds
2002-04-23 16:46 ` Darren New
2002-04-23 18:55 ` Alan Reynolds
2002-04-23 6:26 ` Kent Paul Dolan
2002-04-23 2:38 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-23 18:57 ` Anders Gidenstam
2002-04-23 2:32 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-23 23:46 ` Jeffrey Carter
2002-04-24 15:01 ` Darren New
[not found] ` <4519e058.0204220534.2eb33730@posting.go <3CC4E9DA.E02BE0DA@san.rr.com>
2002-04-23 5:21 ` Simon Wright
2002-04-23 7:37 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2002-04-23 22:33 ` David Bolen
2002-04-24 6:42 ` Jean-Marc Bourguet
2002-04-24 18:18 ` David Bolen
2002-04-25 7:40 ` Jean-Marc Bourguet
2002-04-25 22:23 ` David Bolen
2002-04-24 17:25 ` Jeffrey Carter
[not found] ` <4519e058.0204220534.2eb33730@posting.go <3CC6EA85.CA2735B2@boeing.com>
2002-04-24 17:48 ` Darren New
2002-04-24 23:12 ` Jeffrey Carter
2002-04-25 0:11 ` Darren New
2002-04-24 19:51 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
[not found] ` <4519e058.0204220534.2eb33730@posting.go <3CC5B161.C719C5D8@san.rr.com>
2002-04-26 5:27 ` Simon Wright
2002-04-22 13:31 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-22 14:15 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2002-04-22 23:59 ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-04-22 14:37 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-22 18:44 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-23 2:18 ` Ted Dennison [this message]
2002-04-23 14:46 ` Stephen Leake
2002-04-23 17:50 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2002-04-23 18:27 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-24 14:20 ` John English
2002-04-24 15:05 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-26 5:41 ` Simon Wright
2002-04-23 18:59 ` Stephen Leake
2002-04-23 19:13 ` Darren New
2002-04-23 19:26 ` Stephen Leake
2002-04-23 19:44 ` Darren New
2002-04-24 16:49 ` Stephen Leake
2002-04-24 17:10 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-25 12:30 ` Georg Bauhaus
2002-04-25 13:35 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-27 8:57 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2002-04-29 14:57 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-29 15:07 ` Hyman Rosen
2002-04-29 15:10 ` Darren New
2002-04-25 16:44 ` Darren New
2002-04-25 17:05 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-26 16:31 ` Stephen Leake
2002-04-29 15:06 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-30 17:16 ` Stephen Leake
2002-04-30 18:31 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-26 17:16 ` Darren New
2002-04-26 17:53 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-28 0:09 ` Darren New
2002-04-25 17:44 ` Stephen Leake
[not found] ` <aa8ssi$qjr$1 <3CCD6197.9070905@mail.com>
2002-04-30 4:49 ` Simon Wright
2002-04-30 14:05 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-30 14:32 ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-02 15:52 ` Ted Dennison
2002-05-01 22:17 ` Simon Wright
2002-04-24 17:25 ` Darren New
2002-04-24 19:36 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2002-04-24 19:38 ` David Bolen
2002-04-24 21:57 ` Stephen Leake
[not found] ` <uznzumd1p.fsf@gsfc.nasa.gov <aac468$3hh$1@nh.pace.co.uk>
2002-04-27 5:29 ` Simon Wright
2002-04-29 15:16 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-27 14:37 ` Larry Kilgallen
[not found] ` <uznzumd1p.fsf@gsfc.nasa.govOrganization: LJK Software <tW4Tz4KHL8Bt@eisner.encompasserve.org>
2002-04-29 15:26 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-21 5:46 ` Simon Wright
2002-04-21 18:44 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-22 14:31 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-25 2:29 ` Brian Gaffney
2002-04-25 14:06 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-20 0:42 ` David Bolen
2002-04-22 2:57 ` Robert Dewar
2002-04-22 22:58 ` David Bolen
2002-04-18 18:50 ` [OT] Focusing on tools you know in programming libraries. (was): Development process in the Ada community Kent Paul Dolan
2002-04-18 18:57 ` Data!, was " tmoran
2002-04-18 20:51 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-18 21:28 ` Gary Scott
2002-04-18 22:10 ` Pascal Obry
2002-04-18 23:08 ` Darren New
2002-04-19 13:29 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-20 3:04 ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-04-18 22:28 ` Jeffrey Carter
2002-04-19 10:07 ` Georg Bauhaus
2002-04-19 10:13 ` Georg Bauhaus
2002-04-20 5:12 ` Simon Wright
2002-04-19 11:00 ` John English
2002-04-19 16:45 ` Ingo Marks
2002-04-18 20:28 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-17 23:31 ` martin.m.dowie
2002-04-17 18:04 ` Outside view (still): " Kent Paul Dolan
2002-04-17 19:10 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-17 22:15 ` Robert Dewar
2002-04-17 23:20 ` Kent Paul Dolan
2002-04-18 1:19 ` Pat Rogers
2002-04-18 4:53 ` Kent Paul Dolan
2002-04-18 5:40 ` Simon Wright
2002-04-19 13:22 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-18 8:25 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2002-04-18 2:12 ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-04-18 5:03 ` Kent Paul Dolan
2002-04-18 12:50 ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-04-18 14:34 ` Gary Scott
2002-04-18 13:43 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-18 4:21 ` Richard Riehle
2002-04-18 4:59 ` Kent Paul Dolan
2002-04-18 14:44 ` new Ada language features needed? Stephen Leake
2002-04-18 14:07 ` Outside view (still): Development process in the Ada community Marin David Condic
2002-04-19 17:39 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-19 18:58 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-20 17:35 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-22 17:57 ` Robert Dewar
2002-04-22 19:46 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-22 20:24 ` Florian Weimer
2002-04-23 4:54 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-23 20:37 ` Florian Weimer
2002-04-25 17:29 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-27 8:26 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-27 23:54 ` Robert Dewar
2002-04-28 14:18 ` Michael Erdmann
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