From: tony <tonygair@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Rant! (was) Development process in the Ada community
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 23:20:50 +0000 (UTC)
Date: 2002-04-11T23:20:50+00:00 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <3CB61A78.271280C1@btinternet.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: dfc3a9eb805c5538c8b1d19eb9c9aff3.48257@mygate.mailgate.org
I was a student in 1987 when there was no ada open source.
Ada in the military is a waste of Ada. A mix of a clearly understandable
language with clearly understandable perverse human objectives.
Open source with Ada however is a mixing of both write once and use
around the world components.
The amount of ada software now being produced open source amongst a
community with no set objectives, no set one way of thinking, no hidden
agenda, no management I think is astounding.
Doomed to the horse calvalry is just a bad analogy I think because,
Ada is doing very well in the open source community (against all odds)
which is the true test.
The true test of technology is in the open source community and not in
the temporary distraction of the US military which appears to define the
success of its technology in how many third world people you can murder
or subjugate by pressing or not pressing a button.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2002-04-11 23:20 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 425+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2002-04-10 16:33 Development process in the Ada community Michael Erdmann
2002-04-10 23:28 ` Randy Brukardt
2002-04-11 4:53 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-11 7:34 ` Petter Fryklund
2002-04-11 16:39 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-11 8:37 ` Eric G. Miller
2002-04-11 13:27 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-12 12:33 ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-04-12 12:56 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-12 23:59 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-11 17:26 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-11 10:41 ` Martin Dowie
2002-04-11 16:50 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-11 18:21 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-12 4:43 ` tmoran
2002-04-12 11:13 ` Claw thick bindings to sockets (was: Development process in the Ada..) Larry Kilgallen
2002-04-12 17:22 ` tmoran
2002-04-12 21:24 ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-04-12 23:18 ` tmoran
2002-04-12 23:19 ` Development process in the Ada community tony
2002-04-12 23:52 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-15 14:35 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-11 20:26 ` Randy Brukardt
2002-04-11 12:38 ` Jim Rogers
2002-04-11 16:48 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-11 18:09 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-11 18:26 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-11 21:05 ` Randy Brukardt
2002-04-11 22:26 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-12 13:13 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-15 14:28 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-15 17:53 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-12 8:35 ` Ingo Marks
2002-04-12 14:37 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-12 15:44 ` Georg Bauhaus
2002-04-11 21:14 ` Rant! (was) " Kent Paul Dolan
2002-04-11 23:20 ` tony [this message]
2002-04-12 0:55 ` Chad R. Meiners
2002-04-12 1:21 ` Pat Rogers
2002-04-12 15:57 ` Georg Bauhaus
2002-04-12 22:20 ` Chad R. Meiners
2002-04-12 21:02 ` --off topic " tony
2002-04-12 23:52 ` Chad R. Meiners
2002-04-14 10:57 ` Georg Bauhaus
2002-04-14 22:17 ` Chad R. Meiners
2002-04-12 14:57 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-12 23:12 ` tony
2002-04-12 10:10 ` Ingo Marks
2002-04-12 11:11 ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-04-12 23:18 ` tmoran
2002-04-12 17:22 ` Florian Weimer
2002-04-12 17:38 ` Mário Amado Alves
2002-04-12 18:29 ` Kent Paul Dolan
2002-04-13 3:30 ` Robert Dewar
2002-04-13 10:12 ` martin.m.dowie
2002-04-13 13:21 ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-04-13 13:39 ` martin.m.dowie
2002-04-13 14:12 ` Gary Scott
2002-04-13 14:20 ` Robert Dewar
2002-04-13 16:03 ` martin.m.dowie
2002-04-15 15:03 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-16 8:30 ` Frank
2002-04-21 11:35 ` Michal Nowak
2002-04-16 15:43 ` martin.m.dowie
2002-04-16 16:53 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-17 6:16 ` martin.m.dowie
2002-04-17 12:55 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-17 7:50 ` Ingo Marks
2002-04-17 12:01 ` Gary Scott
2002-04-17 13:29 ` Robert Dewar
2002-04-17 18:40 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-18 15:02 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-18 15:28 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-17 13:29 ` Robert Dewar
2002-04-17 19:31 ` Chad R. Meiners
2002-04-18 14:15 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-18 18:35 ` Paranoia about .NET (still): " Kent Paul Dolan
2002-04-18 21:43 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-19 11:49 ` Robert Dewar
2002-04-19 23:34 ` Kent Paul Dolan
2002-04-19 23:14 ` rc211v
2002-04-20 3:00 ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-04-23 17:27 ` Wish List : Ada95 to FOX Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2002-04-23 19:24 ` Stephen Leake
2002-04-23 19:30 ` Randy Brukardt
2002-04-26 22:06 ` rc211v
2002-04-24 0:00 ` Jeffrey Carter
[not found] ` <3CC5997E.4 <3CC5F5B0.DBC6A6B8@boeing.com>
2002-04-24 8:47 ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2002-04-24 15:15 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-16 1:41 ` Rant! (was) Development process in the Ada community Richard Riehle
2002-04-16 19:40 ` [OT] MS vs Linux vs who in the student heart? (still mostly): " Kent Paul Dolan
2002-04-17 2:09 ` Adrian Hoe
2002-04-12 21:17 ` Wes Groleau
2002-04-13 0:23 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-13 22:07 ` Kent Paul Dolan
2002-04-14 8:01 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-14 10:24 ` Ingo Marks
2002-04-14 10:26 ` Ingo Marks
2002-04-14 11:41 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-14 12:48 ` Ingo Marks
2002-04-14 13:42 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-17 3:13 ` Richard Riehle
2002-04-17 13:19 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-14 14:44 ` Gary Scott
2002-04-14 15:44 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-14 15:54 ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-04-14 16:33 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-14 21:46 ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-04-15 15:39 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-16 16:34 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-16 17:28 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-17 17:02 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-17 21:09 ` Kent Paul Dolan
2002-04-17 21:25 ` Darren New
2002-04-17 23:14 ` Kent Paul Dolan
2002-04-17 23:24 ` Darren New
2002-04-18 4:34 ` Eric G. Miller
2002-04-18 14:08 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-18 18:34 ` Al Reynolds
2002-04-18 19:15 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-18 20:03 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-18 20:45 ` Ingo Marks
2002-04-18 4:42 ` Kent Paul Dolan
2002-04-18 13:16 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-18 13:54 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-18 18:25 ` Kent Paul Dolan
2002-04-18 19:05 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-18 21:41 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-18 17:12 ` Pascal Obry
2002-04-15 15:11 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-15 15:28 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-16 16:53 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-16 17:49 ` Ingo Marks
2002-04-16 17:57 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-18 14:04 ` Bill Tate
2002-04-18 14:45 ` Gary Scott
2002-04-18 20:12 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-18 20:09 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-13 0:59 ` Robert Dewar
2002-04-13 7:38 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-13 7:46 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-13 13:24 ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-04-13 16:01 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-13 17:18 ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-04-13 19:02 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-13 21:34 ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-04-14 8:28 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-14 16:00 ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-04-13 22:24 ` Kent Paul Dolan
2002-04-14 0:00 ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-04-15 3:03 ` Kent Paul Dolan
2002-04-14 3:04 ` Gary Scott
2002-04-15 3:00 ` Kent Paul Dolan
2002-04-16 2:37 ` Gary Scott
2002-04-14 8:51 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-14 9:52 ` Georg Bauhaus
2002-04-14 10:37 ` Ingo Marks
2002-04-14 11:50 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-14 20:41 ` tmoran
2002-04-15 14:45 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-15 15:59 ` Kent Paul Dolan
2002-04-15 19:45 ` Randy Brukardt
2002-04-17 16:29 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-17 22:30 ` Randy Brukardt
2002-04-21 5:56 ` David Botton
2002-04-21 7:13 ` tmoran
2002-04-21 21:14 ` David Botton
2002-04-22 21:46 ` Randy Brukardt
2002-04-23 4:47 ` GPL and the big picture (was Re: Development process in the Ada community) David Botton
2002-04-23 5:11 ` David Botton
2002-04-24 19:52 ` Randy Brukardt
2002-04-21 11:02 ` Development process in the Ada community Adrian Hoe
2002-04-21 21:21 ` David Botton
2002-04-15 22:02 ` tmoran
2002-04-17 16:55 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-17 17:15 ` Stephen Leake
2002-04-17 18:01 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-18 19:22 ` Stephen Leake
2002-04-21 5:35 ` David Botton
2002-04-21 5:34 ` David Botton
2002-04-18 5:12 ` Eric G. Miller
2002-04-18 13:31 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-19 2:50 ` Eric G. Miller
2002-04-21 5:33 ` David Botton
2002-04-17 3:25 ` Richard Riehle
2002-04-17 5:07 ` Open Source: in conflict with the development process in the Ada community? Kent Paul Dolan
2002-04-17 10:14 ` Hyman Rosen
2002-04-17 13:20 ` Robert Dewar
2002-04-17 14:06 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-19 14:20 ` Robert Dewar
2002-04-19 16:04 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-22 13:44 ` Robert Dewar
2002-04-19 23:48 ` How Open Source software developers pay the bills, from within a successful such operation (was): " Kent Paul Dolan
2002-04-20 16:41 ` Robert Dewar
2002-04-20 18:08 ` Florian Weimer
2002-04-21 0:38 ` Robert Dewar
2002-04-21 1:44 ` Robert Dewar
2002-04-22 16:06 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-23 12:44 ` Robert Dewar
2002-04-23 20:48 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-23 23:50 ` Jeffrey Carter
2002-04-20 6:28 ` tmoran
2002-04-20 6:53 ` Florian Weimer
2002-04-20 11:53 ` Frank J. Lhota
2002-04-20 13:14 ` Florian Weimer
2002-04-20 14:50 ` Frank J. Lhota
2002-04-21 11:13 ` Ingo Marks
2002-04-21 21:23 ` Darren New
2002-04-22 13:42 ` Robert Dewar
2002-04-22 16:11 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-20 16:07 ` Robert Dewar
2002-04-17 13:53 ` Development process in the Ada community Marin David Condic
2002-04-18 14:50 ` Stephen Leake
2002-04-18 15:43 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-19 5:23 ` Simon Wright
2002-04-22 15:41 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-17 17:58 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-17 20:39 ` Stephen Leake
2002-04-17 20:54 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-18 15:43 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-17 22:18 ` Randy Brukardt
2002-04-18 15:39 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-19 3:16 ` Randy Brukardt
2002-04-20 5:56 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-20 16:30 ` Robert Dewar
2002-04-20 18:31 ` tmoran
2002-04-20 21:32 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-22 0:30 ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-04-22 13:40 ` Robert Dewar
2002-04-22 14:27 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-22 17:40 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-22 17:48 ` Robert Dewar
2002-04-21 0:57 ` Robert Dewar
2002-04-21 5:23 ` tmoran
2002-04-21 15:59 ` Robert Dewar
2002-04-21 17:47 ` tmoran
2002-04-21 1:03 ` Robert Dewar
2002-04-21 9:07 ` Florian Weimer
2002-04-22 15:11 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-23 15:38 ` Hyman Rosen
2002-04-23 16:03 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-20 19:41 ` tmoran
2002-04-21 0:28 ` Richard Riehle
2002-04-21 0:33 ` Jason King
2002-04-22 15:22 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-23 4:09 ` Randy Brukardt
2002-04-23 5:30 ` Simon Wright
2002-04-26 18:25 ` Randy Brukardt
2002-04-29 14:44 ` Shared generics Hyman Rosen
2002-04-29 19:47 ` Randy Brukardt
2002-04-23 13:28 ` Development process in the Ada community Marin David Condic
2002-04-20 21:16 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-15 17:19 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-17 18:09 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-17 20:42 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-16 8:29 ` Georg Bauhaus
2002-04-16 13:31 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-16 17:46 ` tmoran
2002-04-17 3:34 ` Richard Riehle
2002-04-17 12:11 ` John English
2002-04-15 16:29 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-16 11:28 ` Martin Dowie
2002-04-16 13:38 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-17 18:36 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-17 20:14 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-18 16:00 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-18 17:32 ` Hyman Rosen
2002-04-18 17:48 ` Grace and Maps (was Re: Development process in the Ada community) Marin David Condic
2002-04-19 13:29 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-19 14:23 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-20 13:42 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-20 19:54 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-22 13:21 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-20 19:12 ` Jeffrey Carter
2002-04-22 13:40 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-20 19:49 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-21 1:33 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-21 5:49 ` Simon Wright
2002-04-21 8:55 ` Hyman Rosen
2002-04-21 18:49 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-21 20:17 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-22 0:36 ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-04-22 5:20 ` Simon Wright
2002-04-22 13:34 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-22 16:16 ` Darren New
2002-04-22 22:31 ` Jeffrey Carter
[not found] ` <4519e058.0204220534.2eb33730@posting.go <3CC48F34.5A474E0F@boeing.com>
2002-04-22 23:26 ` Darren New
2002-04-23 2:15 ` Jeffrey Carter
2002-04-23 4:57 ` Darren New
2002-04-23 7:10 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2002-04-23 14:52 ` Stephen Leake
2002-04-23 19:08 ` Darren New
2002-04-24 12:22 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2002-04-24 13:53 ` Darren New
2002-04-24 15:02 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2002-04-24 15:25 ` Darren New
2002-04-24 15:39 ` Darren New
2002-04-24 19:32 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2002-04-24 19:58 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2002-04-24 19:14 ` Randy Brukardt
2002-04-24 20:01 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2002-04-24 20:09 ` Darren New
2002-04-23 12:49 ` Alan Reynolds
2002-04-23 16:46 ` Darren New
2002-04-23 18:55 ` Alan Reynolds
2002-04-23 6:26 ` Kent Paul Dolan
2002-04-23 2:38 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-23 18:57 ` Anders Gidenstam
2002-04-23 2:32 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-23 23:46 ` Jeffrey Carter
2002-04-24 15:01 ` Darren New
[not found] ` <4519e058.0204220534.2eb33730@posting.go <3CC4E9DA.E02BE0DA@san.rr.com>
2002-04-23 5:21 ` Simon Wright
2002-04-23 7:37 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2002-04-23 22:33 ` David Bolen
2002-04-24 6:42 ` Jean-Marc Bourguet
2002-04-24 18:18 ` David Bolen
2002-04-25 7:40 ` Jean-Marc Bourguet
2002-04-25 22:23 ` David Bolen
2002-04-24 17:25 ` Jeffrey Carter
[not found] ` <4519e058.0204220534.2eb33730@posting.go <3CC6EA85.CA2735B2@boeing.com>
2002-04-24 17:48 ` Darren New
2002-04-24 23:12 ` Jeffrey Carter
2002-04-25 0:11 ` Darren New
2002-04-24 19:51 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
[not found] ` <4519e058.0204220534.2eb33730@posting.go <3CC5B161.C719C5D8@san.rr.com>
2002-04-26 5:27 ` Simon Wright
2002-04-22 13:31 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-22 14:15 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2002-04-22 23:59 ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-04-22 14:37 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-22 18:44 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-23 2:18 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-23 14:46 ` Stephen Leake
2002-04-23 17:50 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2002-04-23 18:27 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-24 14:20 ` John English
2002-04-24 15:05 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-26 5:41 ` Simon Wright
2002-04-23 18:59 ` Stephen Leake
2002-04-23 19:13 ` Darren New
2002-04-23 19:26 ` Stephen Leake
2002-04-23 19:44 ` Darren New
2002-04-24 16:49 ` Stephen Leake
2002-04-24 17:10 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-25 12:30 ` Georg Bauhaus
2002-04-25 13:35 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-27 8:57 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2002-04-29 14:57 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-29 15:07 ` Hyman Rosen
2002-04-29 15:10 ` Darren New
2002-04-25 16:44 ` Darren New
2002-04-25 17:05 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-26 16:31 ` Stephen Leake
2002-04-29 15:06 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-30 17:16 ` Stephen Leake
2002-04-30 18:31 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-26 17:16 ` Darren New
2002-04-26 17:53 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-28 0:09 ` Darren New
2002-04-25 17:44 ` Stephen Leake
[not found] ` <aa8ssi$qjr$1 <3CCD6197.9070905@mail.com>
2002-04-30 4:49 ` Simon Wright
2002-04-30 14:05 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-30 14:32 ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-02 15:52 ` Ted Dennison
2002-05-01 22:17 ` Simon Wright
2002-04-24 17:25 ` Darren New
2002-04-24 19:36 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2002-04-24 19:38 ` David Bolen
2002-04-24 21:57 ` Stephen Leake
[not found] ` <uznzumd1p.fsf@gsfc.nasa.gov <aac468$3hh$1@nh.pace.co.uk>
2002-04-27 5:29 ` Simon Wright
2002-04-29 15:16 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-27 14:37 ` Larry Kilgallen
[not found] ` <uznzumd1p.fsf@gsfc.nasa.govOrganization: LJK Software <tW4Tz4KHL8Bt@eisner.encompasserve.org>
2002-04-29 15:26 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-21 5:46 ` Simon Wright
2002-04-21 18:44 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-22 14:31 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-25 2:29 ` Brian Gaffney
2002-04-25 14:06 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-20 0:42 ` David Bolen
2002-04-22 2:57 ` Robert Dewar
2002-04-22 22:58 ` David Bolen
2002-04-18 18:50 ` [OT] Focusing on tools you know in programming libraries. (was): Development process in the Ada community Kent Paul Dolan
2002-04-18 18:57 ` Data!, was " tmoran
2002-04-18 20:51 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-18 21:28 ` Gary Scott
2002-04-18 22:10 ` Pascal Obry
2002-04-18 23:08 ` Darren New
2002-04-19 13:29 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-20 3:04 ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-04-18 22:28 ` Jeffrey Carter
2002-04-19 10:07 ` Georg Bauhaus
2002-04-19 10:13 ` Georg Bauhaus
2002-04-20 5:12 ` Simon Wright
2002-04-19 11:00 ` John English
2002-04-19 16:45 ` Ingo Marks
2002-04-18 20:28 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-17 23:31 ` martin.m.dowie
2002-04-17 18:04 ` Outside view (still): " Kent Paul Dolan
2002-04-17 19:10 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-17 22:15 ` Robert Dewar
2002-04-17 23:20 ` Kent Paul Dolan
2002-04-18 1:19 ` Pat Rogers
2002-04-18 4:53 ` Kent Paul Dolan
2002-04-18 5:40 ` Simon Wright
2002-04-19 13:22 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-18 8:25 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2002-04-18 2:12 ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-04-18 5:03 ` Kent Paul Dolan
2002-04-18 12:50 ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-04-18 14:34 ` Gary Scott
2002-04-18 13:43 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-18 4:21 ` Richard Riehle
2002-04-18 4:59 ` Kent Paul Dolan
2002-04-18 14:44 ` new Ada language features needed? Stephen Leake
2002-04-18 14:07 ` Outside view (still): Development process in the Ada community Marin David Condic
2002-04-19 17:39 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-19 18:58 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-20 17:35 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-22 17:57 ` Robert Dewar
2002-04-22 19:46 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-22 20:24 ` Florian Weimer
2002-04-23 4:54 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-23 20:37 ` Florian Weimer
2002-04-25 17:29 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-27 8:26 ` Michael Erdmann
2002-04-27 23:54 ` Robert Dewar
2002-04-28 14:18 ` Michael Erdmann
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