Ada research survey

Ada research survey

[cal]

VDC is conducting the first comprehensive market study of the Ada
language.  As part of this research we are looking for developers to
complete a short survey about their experiences with Ada.  Your
opinions will help tools vendors to design better tools and understand
your needs.

There will be a prize drawing at the end of the research.

The survey is at www.vdc-corp.com/testada

Thanks for your help.

Re: Ada research survey (NOT !)

[Larry Kilgallen]

In article <35035799.0202060951.43d785d9@posting.google.com>, clanfear@yahoo.com (cal) writes:
> VDC is conducting the first comprehensive market study of the Ada
> language.

Untrue.  The specified web page deals only with embedded use of Ada.

> language.  As part of this research we are looking for developers to
> complete a short survey about their experiences with Ada.  Your
> opinions will help tools vendors to design better tools and understand
> your needs.

But the survey page says you cannot complete the survey unless you
provide an email address, so they may contact you in case you win a
prize.  Since the prize was not central to the post here in the
newsgroup, this seems to me just an attempt to collect a mailing
address for spam purposes.

Re: Ada research survey (NOT !)

[cal]

Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in message news:<vHsW7qanJj$0@eisner.encompasserve.org>...
> In article <35035799.0202060951.43d785d9@posting.google.com>, clanfear@yahoo.com (cal) writes:
> > VDC is conducting the first comprehensive market study of the Ada
> > language.
> 
> Untrue.  The specified web page deals only with embedded use of Ada.

Show me a market study on the Ada Language...


> 
> > language.  As part of this research we are looking for developers to
> > complete a short survey about their experiences with Ada.  Your
> > opinions will help tools vendors to design better tools and understand
> > your needs.
> 
> But the survey page says you cannot complete the survey unless you
> provide an email address, so they may contact you in case you win a
> prize.  Since the prize was not central to the post here in the
> newsgroup, this seems to me just an attempt to collect a mailing
> address for spam purposes.

If you do not want to recieve the prizes put in a bogus email.   I do
not care.  Last year we gave out 11 Palms VIIs, 15 DVDs and 15 gift
certificates to developers and end users who filled out surveys.

Re: Ada research survey (NOT !)

[Larry Kilgallen]

In article <35035799.0202070823.2556cf9d@posting.google.com>, clanfear@yahoo.com (cal) writes:
> Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in message news:<vHsW7qanJj$0@eisner.encompasserve.org>...
>> In article <35035799.0202060951.43d785d9@posting.google.com>, clanfear@yahoo.com (cal) writes:
>> > VDC is conducting the first comprehensive market study of the Ada
>> > language.
>> 
>> Untrue.  The specified web page deals only with embedded use of Ada.
> 
> Show me a market study on the Ada Language...

You are the one in the survey business.  I have been using Ada for
14 years, never embedded.

>> > language.  As part of this research we are looking for developers to
>> > complete a short survey about their experiences with Ada.  Your
>> > opinions will help tools vendors to design better tools and understand
>> > your needs.
>> 
>> But the survey page says you cannot complete the survey unless you
>> provide an email address, so they may contact you in case you win a
>> prize.  Since the prize was not central to the post here in the
>> newsgroup, this seems to me just an attempt to collect a mailing
>> address for spam purposes.
> 
> If you do not want to recieve the prizes put in a bogus email.   I do
> not care.  Last year we gave out 11 Palms VIIs, 15 DVDs and 15 gift
> certificates to developers and end users who filled out surveys.

No, I don't lie on surveys.

And those "prizes" are not of interest to me.

Re: Ada research survey (NOT !)

[Pascal Obry]

Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:

> In article <35035799.0202070823.2556cf9d@posting.google.com>, clanfear@yahoo.com (cal) writes:
> > Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in message news:<vHsW7qanJj$0@eisner.encompasserve.org>...
> >> In article <35035799.0202060951.43d785d9@posting.google.com>, clanfear@yahoo.com (cal) writes:
> >> > VDC is conducting the first comprehensive market study of the Ada
> >> > language.
> >> 
> >> Untrue.  The specified web page deals only with embedded use of Ada.
> > 
> > Show me a market study on the Ada Language...
> 
> You are the one in the survey business.  I have been using Ada for
> 14 years, never embedded.


Idem, 10 years never embedded but information systems. It seems that most
peoples think that Ada is used only on embbede, high critical
applications. Java, C#, J2E whatever buzz words on the information systems
domain are just... well buzz words, when you want the job to be done Ada
is as good as any other languages...

Just my 2 cents,
Pascal.

-- 

--|------------------------------------------------------
--| Pascal Obry                           Team-Ada Member
--| 45, rue Gabriel Peri - 78114 Magny Les Hameaux FRANCE
--|------------------------------------------------------
--|         http://perso.wanadoo.fr/pascal.obry
--|
--| "The best way to travel is by means of imagination"

Re: Ada research survey (NOT !)

[cal]

Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in message news:<6I0+NCnyxpwl@eisner.encompasserve.org>...
> In article <35035799.0202070823.2556cf9d@posting.google.com>, clanfear@yahoo.com (cal) writes:
> > Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in message news:<vHsW7qanJj$0@eisner.encompasserve.org>...
> >> In article <35035799.0202060951.43d785d9@posting.google.com>, clanfear@yahoo.com (cal) writes:
> >> > VDC is conducting the first comprehensive market study of the Ada
> >> > language.
> >> 
> >> Untrue.  The specified web page deals only with embedded use of Ada.
> > 
> > Show me a market study on the Ada Language...
> 
> You are the one in the survey business.  I have been using Ada for
> 14 years, never embedded.

So you say that this is not the first study, but you can not tell me
about another one.



> 
> >> > language.  As part of this research we are looking for developers to
> >> > complete a short survey about their experiences with Ada.  Your
> >> > opinions will help tools vendors to design better tools and understand
> >> > your needs.
> >> 
> >> But the survey page says you cannot complete the survey unless you
> >> provide an email address, so they may contact you in case you win a
> >> prize.  Since the prize was not central to the post here in the
> >> newsgroup, this seems to me just an attempt to collect a mailing
> >> address for spam purposes.
> > 
> > If you do not want to recieve the prizes put in a bogus email.   I do
> > not care.  Last year we gave out 11 Palms VIIs, 15 DVDs and 15 gift
> > certificates to developers and end users who filled out surveys.
> 
> No, I don't lie on surveys.
> 
> And those "prizes" are not of interest to me.

Don't fill it out then...

Re: Ada research survey (NOT !)

[Larry Kilgallen]

In article <35035799.0202080732.372376b3@posting.google.com>, clanfear@yahoo.com (cal) writes:
> Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in message news:<6I0+NCnyxpwl@eisner.encompasserve.org>...
>> In article <35035799.0202070823.2556cf9d@posting.google.com>, clanfear@yahoo.com (cal) writes:
>> > Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in message news:<vHsW7qanJj$0@eisner.encompasserve.org>...
>> >> In article <35035799.0202060951.43d785d9@posting.google.com>, clanfear@yahoo.com (cal) writes:
>> >> > VDC is conducting the first comprehensive market study of the Ada
>> >> > language.
>> >> 
>> >> Untrue.  The specified web page deals only with embedded use of Ada.
>> > 
>> > Show me a market study on the Ada Language...
>> 
>> You are the one in the survey business.  I have been using Ada for
>> 14 years, never embedded.
> 
> So you say that this is not the first study, but you can not tell me
> about another one.

Where did I say this is not the first survey (of some sort) ?

I said this was not a comprehensive market study of the Ada language.

Any survey that considers only embedded usage is not a comprehensive
market study of the Ada language.

>> > If you do not want to recieve the prizes put in a bogus email.   I do
>> > not care.  Last year we gave out 11 Palms VIIs, 15 DVDs and 15 gift
>> > certificates to developers and end users who filled out surveys.
>> 
>> No, I don't lie on surveys.
>> 
>> And those "prizes" are not of interest to me.
> 
> Don't fill it out then...

You do not allow me to fill it out, because the survey say if one does not
program in the embedded arena one should not fill it out.

Re: Ada research survey

[Samuel Tardieu]

On  6/02, cal wrote:

| Your opinions will help tools vendors to design better tools and understand
| your needs.

Do you mean here that the survey data will be public?

Re: Ada research survey

[cal]

Samuel Tardieu <sam@rfc1149.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.1013029921.27470.comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org>...
> On  6/02, cal wrote:
> 
> | Your opinions will help tools vendors to design better tools and understand
> | your needs.
> 
> Do you mean here that the survey data will be public?

The survey data will be used in research report which is being
subscribe to by leading tools vendors.  VDC regularly publishes white
papers on top embedded websites and in print publications that contain
research highlights.

I would even publish the white paper here if enough folks helped us
out.  The white paper would be of interest to many people on this
list.

Ada is an under covered topic and the more input the better.

The folks on this list care about Ada so help me tell the tools
vendors what you want and need.

Thanks

Re: Ada research survey

[Larry Kilgallen]

In article <35035799.0202070818.52400545@posting.google.com>, clanfear@yahoo.com (cal) writes:

> I would even publish the white paper here if enough folks helped us
> out.  The white paper would be of interest to many people on this
> list.

Apparently only to those who do embedded work.

> The folks on this list care about Ada so help me tell the tools
> vendors what you want and need.

You will find you get more people willing to give opinions if you
structure things so they don't have to give an email address.

Re: Ada research survey

[Marin David Condic]

I've said elsewhere that Ada could benefit from some serious market
research, so I'm not against this - even if it is not made public. If some
tool vendor(s) want some market research to better structure their products
and are willing to pay for the results, that still is beneficial to Ada.

That said, I'd agree that anonymous answers would get more web
participation. There are entirely too many SPAM artists out there who will
stoop to very underhanded ways of obtaining valid e-mail addresses - and we
have no way of distinguishing them from legitimate researchers. Many
marketing firms will ask for a variety of research data (which I am willing
to supply) along with a variety of personal contact data (which I am not
willing to supply) and not offer an option to opt-out of it. I may be
willing to answer a survey, but not if it invites SPAM from companies I have
no desire to communicate with or generates a variety of sales calls or
increases my load of junk mail.

(Note: I make it a policy to *NEVER* buy anything from anyone rude enough to
SPAM me or telephone-market me, so be advised that this is a WASTE OF YOUR
TIME to attempt to do so. Junk mail ends up shredded and on my compost heap,
so save the postage. When the heap gets too big I may start putting the junk
mail from one envelope into the business-reply envelope of another junk mail
just to make this even less cost effective. :-)

Market researchers would do well to listen to these gripes and possibly
conclude that the value of the personal contact information is not as
important as the loss of goodwill they will experience by
collecting/using/selling it. If the web page asking for the data becomes
anonymous, I'm willing to fill it out.

MDC
--
Marin David Condic
Senior Software Engineer
Pace Micro Technology Americas    www.pacemicro.com
Enabling the digital revolution
e-Mail:    marin.condic@pacemicro.com
Web:      http://www.mcondic.com/


"Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message
news:IcFV4hm4VsRm@eisner.encompasserve.org...
>
> You will find you get more people willing to give opinions if you
> structure things so they don't have to give an email address.

Re: Ada research survey

[Larry Kilgallen]

In article <a3ugaq$dfh$1@nh.pace.co.uk>, "Marin David Condic" <dont.bother.mcondic.auntie.spam@[acm.org> writes:

> (Note: I make it a policy to *NEVER* buy anything from anyone rude enough to
> SPAM me or telephone-market me, so be advised that this is a WASTE OF YOUR
> TIME to attempt to do so. Junk mail ends up shredded and on my compost heap,
> so save the postage. When the heap gets too big I may start putting the junk
> mail from one envelope into the business-reply envelope of another junk mail
> just to make this even less cost effective. :-)

Or, as film reviewer Roger Ebert put it:

==============================================================================
The Boulder Pledge: "Under no circumstances will I ever purchase anything
     offered to me as the result of an unsolicited email message. Nor will
     I forward chain letters, petitions, mass mailings, or virus warnings
     to large numbers of others. This is my contribution to the survival
     of the online community."
==============================================================================

Re: Ada research survey

[AG]

"Marin David Condic" <dont.bother.mcondic.auntie.spam@[acm.org> wrote in
message news:a3ugaq$dfh$1@nh.pace.co.uk...

> (Note: I make it a policy to *NEVER* buy anything from anyone rude enough
to
> SPAM me or telephone-market me, so be advised that this is a WASTE OF YOUR
> TIME to attempt to do so. Junk mail ends up shredded and on my compost
heap,
> so save the postage. When the heap gets too big I may start putting the
junk
> mail from one envelope into the business-reply envelope of another junk
mail
> just to make this even less cost effective. :-)
>

Why wait so long though? (Unless you want the stuff to well and truly
compost
before you send it back:). Just use any reply envelope from the junk mail to
send
back any other junk mail. Makes even more fun if both the junk mail envelope
and
the contents you put in happen to come from the same company. Or you could
put
another reply envelope in there :)

OFF TOPIC Re: Ada research survey

[Marin David Condic]

That was kind of what I was implying - send Company X the junk mail from
Company Y using their own return envelope. While it would be immensely
satisfying to do so, I'm lead to wonder about the possible legalities that
may come into play. I have no idea if that doesn't violate some postal
regulation somewhere & would never want to encourage anyone to do anything
that might violate a law. But if someone *were* to do that on their own
initiative, I would not exactly start shedding tears over the plight of the
poor junk-mailing companies. :-) (Although my citrus trees seem to be doing
very well on the junk-mail compost I feed them! :-)

MDC
--
Marin David Condic
Senior Software Engineer
Pace Micro Technology Americas    www.pacemicro.com
Enabling the digital revolution
e-Mail:    marin.condic@pacemicro.com
Web:      http://www.mcondic.com/


"AG" <nospam@nowhere.co.nz> wrote in message
news:G1198.9381$Lv.1128200@news.xtra.co.nz...
>
> Why wait so long though? (Unless you want the stuff to well and truly
> compost
> before you send it back:). Just use any reply envelope from the junk mail
to
> send
> back any other junk mail. Makes even more fun if both the junk mail
envelope
> and
> the contents you put in happen to come from the same company. Or you could
> put
> another reply envelope in there :)
>
>

Re: OFF TOPIC Re: Ada research survey

[Wes Groleau]

> That was kind of what I was implying - send Company X the junk mail from
> Company Y using their own return envelope. While it would be immensely
> satisfying to do so, I'm lead to wonder about the possible legalities that

I write NO! in humongous letters on the reply form, and
send it back WITH all the advertising it came with.
They have to pay to retrieve it from the post office,
and it's THEIR stuff, so they can't claim it's unsolicited.

-- 
Wes Groleau
http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~wgroleau