Re: How to make Ada a dominant language

[Scott Ingram <scott@silver.jhuapl.edu>]

Russ wrote:
> 
> Well, I guess I touched some raw nerves with my proposal to clean up
> Ada's syntax. I certainly appreciate the feedback.
> 

I appreciate your enthusiasm for popularizing Ada, and I don't think
you touched any "raw nerves."  Most of your respondents in this thread
have been using Ada for some time, and understand the rationale behind
the syntax that Ada employs.  There are some very interesting and
valid criticisms that can be made with regard to the language, but
the syntax is way below the radar screen for most of us.

(snip)

> 
> However, I still stand by the other items in my proposal. I think
> semicolons should be essentially eliminated, and I think "=" should be
> used for assignment and named association. I also still think the
> declaration syntax should be reversed. By the way, someone correctly
> pointed out that what I am proposing has a lot in common with Fortran
> 95.

I personally find these suggestions abhorrent.  I find the current
syntax
a relief after working with other imperative languages.  It doesn't 
happen often, but I have used conditional tests that are sufficiently
complex that they are easier to read if broken into several lines, and
the semicolon marking the end of the statement is very handy for marking
the end of a collection of thoughts.  As for the declaration order and
assignment operator--they happen to match the way I think very closely,
changing them would twist my brain in knots! (Which is the state its in
most of the time...)

> 
> Furthermore, I think the idea of having another "dialect" of Ada is an
> innovative concept with real potential. If you reject it out hand, you
> simply have a closed mind.

There are two other "dialects" of Ada that have proven very successful
in their targeted markets. PL/SQL as an adjunct to Oracle in the
database market, and VHDL in programmable logic devices.  What's weird
is how many people fail to connect these with Ada.

> 
> Most of the replies I received on this thread were very reasonable. A
> recurring theme, however, was that syntax is trivial and not worth
> discussing. I understand that the syntax is not the most important
> aspect of a language, but that doesn't mean it is not worth discussing
> or improving.

Agreed, but this actually is not the proper forum.  As might be expected
for such a formal language, there are working groups and committees who
evaluate such proposals for inclusion in the standard.

> 
> I have a colleague who started programming in Fortran way back in the
> sixties (maybe even the fifties). He is a master algorithm developer and
> programmer. His code is meticulously correct, efficient, and minimal.
> When I introduced him to C and C++ several years ago, he was amazed that
> he had to clutter his code with all those semicolons and constantly put
> up with the compiler's nagging when one is left out. He adapted, of
> course, but his initial reaction was right. All those semicolons are
> nothing more than a lot of noise. They are litter in your code, and if
> you never minded them at all, then your code is probably filled with
> lots of other litter too. If so, I hope it is not being used in any
> safety-critical systems.
> 
> Russ Paielli

Major difference of opinion here:  those semicolons are not "litter,"
but rather like the firestops in the wall of your house they provide
an added margin of safety by compartmentalizing thoughts as the
firestops compartmentalize the spaces in the structure.

As far as Ada's "popularity" goes, I think it fair to argue that it
is more popular now than at any time in its history.  Although some
shops have moved away from its use now the dreaded mandate has been
rescinded, there is a lot more traffic on c.l.a from new users who
don't carry baggage from that era.

-- 
Scott Ingram
Vice-Chair, Baltimore SIGAda
System Development and Operational Support Group
Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory