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From: "Marc A. Criley" <mcqada@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Ada The Best Language?
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 12:04:39 GMT
Date: 2001-07-18T12:04:39+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <3B556EDE.18308230@earthlink.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 9j298c$hvq$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk

JP wrote:
> 
> Just for information. I have been told by "agency" guy that some companies
> program Ada in way that means performance is not met, i.e. 4 or more layers
> for an essentailly driver app. Meanwhile the same company will program in C
> and make it fit the performance constraints, i.e. 1-2 layers. Reason - I
> assume it the the God of OOD and OSI.. By the way, these are embedded
> systems with tight CPU requirements.

So it's dictated that when writing Ada, multiple layered abstractions
_must_ be utilized.  Regardless of that design approach's suitability to
the problem domain.  And it must therefore be forbidden from meeting the
performance requirements.

But when using C, one can use a suitable design paradigm and
subsequently meet requirements.

As a strong advocate of object oriented development, with over 15 years
experience with it, I'm allowed to say this:  Take your OO zealots out
and shoot them.  I've run into this mentality before, and there's no
arguing with them.

Good design first off means using an _appropriate_ design.


My OO zealotry horror story:  The group I was in at a former employer
inherited a system that was written in Ada 83 and it had been dictated
that it be fully object-oriented.  The conventional definition of
"object oriented" defines it as utilizing encapsulation, inheritance,
and polymorphism.  While Ada 83 supported encapsulation quite well, its
support for the other concepts was quite limited, with derived types
providing the what little support there was.

Still, to be OO, the system _had_ to have inheritance and polymorphism,
and by God it did.  Through the use of derived types, pointers, type
conversions, 'address-es of derived procedures, ad nauseum, this system
had all three components of an object oriented system.

It took weeks to fully grasp the design concept of the system, many
aspects of which were conceptual and had to be understood and respected
by the developer, rather than being implemented and enforced by the
compiler.  It was easy to make mistakes, and very difficult to track
down what was happening in this convoluted morass.

The only real way out of this mess would've been to rewrite the system.

Which we did.  And which reduced its SLOC count by a third.

Marc A. Criley
Senior Staff Engineer
Quadrus Corporation
www.quadruscorp.com



  reply	other threads:[~2001-07-18 12:04 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 243+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2001-07-17 16:38 Ada The Best Language? codesavvy
2001-07-17 17:16 ` chris.danx
2001-07-17 21:35   ` JP
2001-07-18 12:04     ` Marc A. Criley [this message]
2001-07-18 13:13       ` Colin Paul Gloster
2001-07-18 15:03         ` OO Zealotry horror stories (was Re: Ada the Best Language) Marc A. Criley
2001-07-17 17:53 ` Ada The Best Language? Larry Kilgallen
2001-07-17 18:01 ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-18  2:10   ` codesavvy
2001-07-18 10:43     ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-07-18 14:27     ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-18 20:37       ` codesavvy
2001-07-18 21:11         ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-19 21:45           ` codesavvy
2001-07-18 22:02         ` Ed Falis
2001-07-19 21:50           ` codesavvy
2001-07-18 23:00         ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-07-19 21:55           ` codesavvy
2001-07-21  8:39             ` Martin Dowie
2001-07-22 14:18             ` John R. Strohm
2001-07-23  6:13               ` 
2001-07-23 11:16                 ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2001-07-23 12:27                 ` Marc A. Criley
2001-07-24  2:07                 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-20  4:12         ` Adrian Hoe
2001-07-18 17:26     ` Darren New
2001-07-18 18:03       ` Pascal Obry
2001-07-18 20:51       ` codesavvy
2001-07-18 21:03         ` David C. Hoos
2001-07-20  4:00           ` Adrian Hoe
2001-07-18 21:22         ` Darren New
2001-07-19  4:12         ` James Rogers
2001-07-19  8:59           ` Michal Nowak
2001-07-19 10:40           ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-07-19 12:20           ` codesavvy
2001-07-21 18:20         ` Lao Xiao Hai
2001-07-22  3:55           ` Robert C. Leif, Ph.D.
2001-07-18 21:08     ` Tucker Taft
2001-07-17 20:12 ` Jeffrey Carter
2001-07-17 21:15   ` Gerhard Häring
2001-07-17 21:38   ` Paul Storm
2001-07-18  2:03 ` Tomasz Wegrzanowski
2001-07-18  9:28   ` Gary Lisyansky
2001-07-18 10:42   ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-07-18  2:40 ` Beau
2001-07-18 10:35   ` codesavvy
2001-07-18 11:27     ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2001-07-18 18:28       ` Brian Rogoff
2001-07-18 21:00         ` codesavvy
2001-07-19 17:31           ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-19 21:36             ` codesavvy
2001-07-24  3:22               ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-25  0:11                 ` David Bolen
2001-07-25  3:09                   ` Recent Ada Information (was: zhttp://www.aceshardware.com/Spades/r Larry Kilgallen
2001-07-25  3:32                     ` David Bolen
2001-07-25  4:53                     ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-07-25 10:50                   ` Ada The Best Language? codesavvy
2001-07-25 16:04                     ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-25 21:49                       ` codesavvy
2001-07-26 17:24                         ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-26 18:48                           ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-26 20:21                             ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-26 20:52                               ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-26 17:26                         ` Pascal Obry
2001-07-25 19:39                     ` tmoran
2001-07-27  0:35                       ` David Bolen
2001-07-27  1:50                         ` Gary Scott
2001-07-27 14:05                         ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-28  6:42                         ` tmoran
2001-07-28 12:53                           ` When correct software meets illegal data (was: Ada The Best...) Larry Kilgallen
2001-07-28 18:42                             ` tmoran
2001-07-28 20:52                               ` Al Christians
2001-07-28 21:42                                 ` tmoran
2001-07-30  1:53                                 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-28  5:32                       ` Ada The Best Language? JM
2001-07-28  6:49                         ` Gerhard Häring
2001-07-28 12:04                           ` Matthew Woodcraft
2001-07-28 19:46                           ` tmoran
2001-07-29  1:01                             ` Gerhard Häring
2001-07-31  2:59                           ` Tom Moran
2001-07-31  9:40                             ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-07-31 10:10                               ` Preben Randhol
2001-07-26 13:22                   ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-20 11:20             ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-20 12:56               ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-20 13:18               ` Dmitry Kazakov
2001-07-20 17:27               ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-20 18:14                 ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-20 19:10                   ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-20 20:12                     ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-20 20:48                       ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-23 11:09                       ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2001-07-20 19:38                   ` David C. Hoos
2001-07-22 13:13                     ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-22 20:35                       ` David C. Hoos, Sr.
2001-07-22 21:12                         ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-22 22:34                           ` David C. Hoos, Sr.
2001-07-23  7:41                           ` Dmitry Kazakov
2001-07-23  8:27                             ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-23 11:51                               ` Dmitry Kazakov
2001-07-23 12:06                                 ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-24  1:57                                   ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-26 22:31                                   ` Larry Elmore
2001-07-24 14:08                           ` Pat Rogers
2001-07-24 14:29                             ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-24 14:49                               ` Pat Rogers
2001-07-24  1:51                   ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-18 18:29       ` codesavvy
2001-07-18 21:48         ` Hambut
2001-07-18 22:00           ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-19 21:43           ` codesavvy
2001-07-19  7:45         ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2001-07-18 11:55     ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-07-18 15:49     ` Alfred Hilscher
2001-07-18 20:48       ` codesavvy
2001-07-18 22:12         ` Pascal Obry
2001-07-18 23:22         ` chris.danx
2001-07-20 11:26           ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-20 12:11             ` chris.danx
2001-07-20 12:43               ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-20 17:37                 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-24 16:52                   ` Ted Dennison
2001-07-24 16:59                     ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2001-07-24 18:25                       ` Ted Dennison
2001-07-25 10:19                         ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2001-07-25 18:53                           ` Teergrubing (was: Ada The Best Language?) Ted Dennison
2001-07-24 20:14                     ` Ada The Best Language? Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-24 21:11                     ` Florian Weimer
2001-07-24 22:52                       ` tmoran
2001-07-25  7:08                         ` Florian Weimer
2001-07-25  7:45                           ` tmoran
2001-07-25 15:44                       ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-25 20:39                         ` Florian Weimer
2001-07-26 17:13                           ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-26 21:08                             ` Florian Weimer
2001-07-25  4:03                     ` Tomasz Wegrzanowski
2001-07-24 17:23                 ` Ted Dennison
2001-07-20 12:14             ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2001-07-20 12:32               ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-20 12:39                 ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2001-07-20 13:28                   ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-20 14:19                     ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2001-07-20 15:39                       ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-20 15:47                         ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2001-07-20 16:55                           ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-23 11:05                             ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2001-07-23 19:42             ` Lao Xiao Hai
2001-07-19 10:43         ` Alfred Hilscher
2001-07-19 12:47         ` Marc A. Criley
2001-07-19 17:01           ` codesavvy
2001-07-21 12:53             ` Marc A. Criley
2001-07-23 19:26         ` Lao Xiao Hai
2001-07-18 15:05 ` McDoobie
2001-07-18 20:42   ` codesavvy
2001-07-21 15:38   ` Device drivers in Ada (was Re: Ada The Best Language?) Mark Lundquist
2001-07-21 19:09     ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-07-21 15:31 ` Ada The Best Language? Mark Lundquist
2001-07-23  4:15   ` codesavvy
2001-07-23  7:26     ` Martin Dowie
2001-07-23 14:18   ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-24  2:13   ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2001-07-18  8:32 Vinzent Hoefler
2001-07-18 12:25 ` Marc A. Criley
2001-07-19  1:03   ` Mike Silva
2001-07-20 11:30   ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-20 12:58     ` Marc A. Criley
2001-07-20 13:48       ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-20 14:56         ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-20 16:41           ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-20 17:47           ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-20 19:33             ` David C. Hoos
2001-07-20 17:19         ` Marc A. Criley
2001-07-20 18:18           ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-08-06  8:13   ` stoog
2001-07-19 17:10 ` Tomasz Wegrzanowski
2001-07-20 13:31   ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2001-07-20 16:46     ` Tomasz Wegrzanowski
2001-07-20 17:00       ` David C. Hoos
2001-08-04  6:04         ` David Thompson
2001-08-05  2:22           ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-23 10:12       ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2001-07-18  8:43 Vinzent Hoefler
2001-07-18  9:22 ` Gerhard Häring
2001-07-18  8:58   ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2001-07-18 14:06 ` codesavvy
2001-07-18 15:27   ` Marc A. Criley
2001-07-18 20:31     ` codesavvy
2001-07-18 21:29       ` Darren New
2001-07-18 21:56         ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-19  3:37           ` Larry Hazel
2001-07-19 18:19             ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-21 15:33             ` Mark Lundquist
2001-07-23 13:50               ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-24  4:52                 ` Robert C. Leif, Ph.D.
2001-07-24  6:47                   ` tmoran
2001-07-24 11:47                   ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-07-24 14:10                   ` Ted Dennison
2001-07-27 11:29                     ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2001-07-19 21:47         ` codesavvy
2001-07-21  2:51           ` DuckE
2001-07-21  3:46           ` Darren New
2001-07-26  1:39           ` Lao Xiao Hai
2001-07-19 13:12       ` Marc A. Criley
2001-07-19 17:11         ` codesavvy
2001-07-21 14:10           ` Marc A. Criley
2001-07-19 14:12       ` Leif Roar Moldskred
2001-07-19 16:58         ` codesavvy
2001-07-19 18:29         ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-19 17:11 ` Tomasz Wegrzanowski
2001-07-19 18:33   ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-19 20:49     ` Tomasz Wegrzanowski
2001-07-19 21:01       ` Darren New
2001-07-19 21:20       ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-19 22:31         ` Tomasz Wegrzanowski
2001-07-19 23:04           ` Darren New
2001-07-19 23:36             ` Tomasz Wegrzanowski
2001-07-20 16:14             ` Ted Dennison
2001-07-20 17:51               ` Darren New
2001-07-20 17:54               ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-20 20:16                 ` Ted Dennison
2001-07-25  9:01           ` Colin Paul Gloster
2001-07-19 22:31       ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-07-18 14:40 Re[2]: " ANH_VO
2001-07-26  1:53 ` Lao Xiao Hai
2001-07-19  0:15 Beard, Frank
2001-07-19 12:24 ` codesavvy
2001-07-19  5:42 Vinzent Hoefler
2001-07-19  6:32 Vinzent Hoefler
2001-07-19  6:35 Vinzent Hoefler
2001-07-19 11:34 Vinzent Hoefler
2001-07-19 15:24 ` Alfred Hilscher
2001-07-19 15:38   ` nicolas
2001-07-19 17:28 ` Ted Dennison
2001-07-24 13:53   ` Colin Paul Gloster
2001-07-19 16:10 Vinzent Hoefler
2001-07-20  6:05 Vinzent Hoefler
2001-07-20  6:08 Vinzent Hoefler
2001-07-20 17:31 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-21 16:27   ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2001-07-24  2:02     ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-20  6:23 Vinzent Hoefler
2001-07-20  6:56 Vinzent Hoefler
2001-07-27 20:22 Beard, Frank
2001-07-27 21:28 ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-30  2:23 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-27 22:46 Beard, Frank
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