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From: Al Christians <achrist@easystreet.com>
Subject: Re: "is ada dead?" A challenge for all of us?
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 11:00:24 -0700
Date: 2001-07-11T11:00:24-07:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <3B4C9438.9443D810@easystreet.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 9ihvff$l7i$1@nh.pace.co.uk

Marin David Condic wrote:
> if all the gold lies burried that deep, I'd blame the tool for 
> that - not me. If what it has is so spiffy, howcum it isn't 
> immediately  visible?
> 

If you want to produce a product that stands tall in comparison to 
products produced by <big software company, but I won't mention any
names>,  realize that they have human factors experts who help them
reduce (or increase) the dumbth of their user interfaces to match
user expectations and increase user satisfaction (no fooling).  I
don't want to complain about emacs or any other particular piece of
open software, because it is extraordinary that such wonderful things
are freely available, but I somehow get the idea that maybe emacs, 
etc, weren't designed with human factors suited to the average person 
according to the experts foremost.      

There are many more things besides programming language that determine 
whether or not software meets its objectives.  One of these is human 
factors of the UI.  If you are not an expert in this area, you probably 
can't estimate accurately the percent of otherwise users lost on 
account of the UI if you build and  emacs-like interface --  0%, 1%, 
10%, 50%, or 99%? I surely DK. 

Presumably, with good software, this is all user-configurable.  But
it is daunting to a new user to try to reconfigure emacs, and this is
not something that a product that is aimed at drawing new users should
count on.  To gain a big number of new users, I'd guess you've got to 
have a standard Windows look and feel either standard or not more than 
2.5 clicks away from the default set up. I have seen an emacs setup 
that actually has hot keys on the pull down menus and responds to the 
Windows standard control keys for cut and paste, etc.  Could one 
combine that kind of setup into the Ada mode for emacs? 

If someone could write a program that would get all the emacs haters
to like emacs,  I'd nominate them for the Nobel Peace Prize.


Al



  reply	other threads:[~2001-07-11 18:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 108+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <200107091850350230.005FE13B@smtp-po.inetia.pl>
2001-07-10  2:30 ` "is ada dead?" A challenge for all of us? Robert C. Leif, Ph.D.
2001-07-10 10:41   ` Michael Erdmann
2001-07-11  6:42     ` McDoobie
2001-07-11 14:53       ` chris.danx
2001-07-11 15:36         ` Marc A. Criley
2001-07-11 16:01           ` chris.danx
2001-07-11 16:39             ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-11 18:00               ` Al Christians [this message]
2001-07-16 11:18                 ` Stefan Skoglund
2001-07-19 21:50                   ` Kjell Mesch
2001-07-11 18:08               ` Marc A. Criley
     [not found]               ` <XN037.15614$Kf3.190690@www.newsranger.com>
     [not found]                 ` <9ikab1$fo2$1@nh.pace.co.uk>
     [not found]                   ` <3B4DB934.78DE7575@earthlink.net>
2001-07-13  2:08                     ` GLIDE Jeffrey Carter
2001-07-13 12:58                       ` GLIDE Marc A. Criley
2001-07-13 15:26                       ` GLIDE file13
2001-07-14  2:47                         ` GLIDE Jeffrey Carter
2001-07-14 13:53                           ` GLIDE Robert Dewar
2001-07-14 15:40                             ` GLIDE Jeffrey Carter
     [not found]                       ` <28d8936a.0107130726.1351ffbb@postin <3B4FB2BA.8DDFBDC4@acm.org>
2001-07-15  6:34                         ` GLIDE Simon Wright
2001-07-15 23:44                           ` GLIDE Robert B. Love 
2001-07-17 16:14                           ` GLIDE David C. Hoos
     [not found]                 ` <9ikprr$fku$1@bob.news.rcn.net>
     [not found]                   ` <Cym37.16986$Kf3.220382@www.newsranger.com>
     [not found]                     ` <un164o8w6.fsf@gsfc.nasa.gov>
     [not found]                       ` <cnX47.22238$Kf3.282845@www.newsranger.com>
     [not found]                         ` <uk8169hkf.fsf@gsfc.nasa.gov>
     [not found]                           ` <tBm57.24076$Kf3.326822@www.newsranger.com>
     [not found]                             ` <u4rs7k5v9.fsf@gsfc.nasa.gov>
     [not found]                               ` <TtY57.944$ar1.4224@www.newsranger.com>
2001-07-23 13:00                                 ` emacs Else and ada-mode Stephen Leake
2001-07-23 16:51                                   ` Marc A. Criley
2001-07-11 16:28           ` "is ada dead?" A challenge for all of us? Al Christians
2001-07-11 19:58             ` chris.danx
2001-07-11 20:56               ` McDoobie
2001-07-11 20:29         ` McDoobie
2001-07-13 12:46           ` chris.danx
2001-07-13 23:35             ` McDoobie
2001-07-11 22:04         ` Larry Kilgallen
     [not found]         ` <Qn_27.15449$Kf3.182453@www.newsranger.com>
     [not found]           ` <8P_27.27381$B56.4722193@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com>
     [not found]             ` <bp037.15593$Kf3.189375@www.newsranger.com>
     [not found]               ` <3B4C98E3.D3E66562@easystreet.com>
     [not found]                 ` <Jt137.15658$Kf3.192645@www.newsranger.com>
     [not found]                   ` <3B4CBA12.7F752364@easystreet.com>
     [not found]                     ` <Po337.15801$Kf3.197989@www.newsranger.com>
     [not found]                       ` <3B4CD02D.D6E3E53C@easystreet.com>
2001-07-12  2:54                         ` Emacs vs. the World Ted Dennison
     [not found]           ` <md837.333699$p33.6738979@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com>
     [not found]             ` <f49tktghbv140bg63a292jul1h940pj5pt@4ax.com>
     [not found]               ` <3B4F4BAC.D53B9555@PublicPropertySoftware.com>
     [not found]                 ` <9inlsv$m7l$1@nh.pace.co.uk>
     [not found]                   ` <bmK37.18791$Kf3.247815@www.newsranger.com>
2001-07-13 22:55                     ` About private types and reusability? Didier Utheza
2001-07-13 23:06                       ` Ed Falis
2001-07-14 21:02                         ` Didier Utheza
2001-07-13 23:28               ` An Ada IDE and discussions chris.danx
2001-07-14  7:08                 ` Michael Erdmann
2001-07-14 12:52                   ` chris.danx
2001-07-15  3:46                     ` Robert C. Leif, Ph.D.
2001-07-16 11:12                     ` Stefan Skoglund
2001-07-17 13:29                       ` chris.danx
2001-07-17 14:21                         ` Ted Dennison
2001-07-17 15:55                           ` chris.danx
2001-07-17 16:58                             ` Firstish Impressions of Gtk+(GtkAda): was " chris.danx
2001-07-19 20:38                             ` Ted Dennison
2001-07-18 19:27                           ` chris.danx
2001-07-16 15:05                     ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-17  7:50                       ` Emmanuel Briot
2001-07-17 10:09                         ` nicolas
2001-07-17 13:26                           ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-17 15:06                             ` nicolas
2001-07-17 15:49                               ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-17 22:42                                 ` Stefan Skoglund
2001-07-18  8:13                                   ` nicolas
2001-07-17 17:58                             ` Pascal Obry
2001-07-17 18:58                               ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-17 22:52                                 ` Stefan Skoglund
2001-07-18  6:41                                 ` Pascal Obry
2001-07-18 14:12                                   ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-18 16:33                                     ` Pascal Obry
2001-07-18 17:12                                       ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-18 18:35                                         ` Ted Dennison
2001-07-18 19:30                                           ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-20 15:41                                             ` Ted Dennison
2001-07-20 17:40                                               ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-20 20:18                                                 ` Ted Dennison
2001-07-18 19:20                                         ` Pascal Obry
2001-07-18 16:59                                     ` Making money from free software [was Re: An Ada IDE and discussions] Matthias Benkmann
2001-07-18 20:50                                       ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-19 17:08                                         ` Ted Dennison
2001-07-19 23:27                                     ` An Ada IDE and discussions Stefan Skoglund
2001-07-17 22:33                       ` Stefan Skoglund
2001-07-18 14:17                         ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-16 17:00                     ` Ted Dennison
2001-07-16 18:17                       ` Al Christians
2001-07-16 18:42                         ` Ed Falis
2001-07-16 18:28                       ` Mark Lundquist
2001-07-17  7:42                       ` Emmanuel Briot
2001-07-17 14:36                         ` Robert C. Leif, Ph.D.
2001-07-17  7:54                       ` Tor Fredrik Aas
2001-07-17 13:33                         ` Ted Dennison
2001-07-17 17:51                           ` Ted Dennison
2001-07-17 23:00                             ` Stefan Skoglund
2001-07-17 22:55                       ` Stefan Skoglund
2001-07-17 22:56                       ` Stefan Skoglund
2001-07-18 16:10                       ` McDoobie
2001-07-19 23:41                         ` Stefan Skoglund
2001-07-16 16:52                 ` Ted Dennison
2001-07-18 12:15         ` "is ada dead?" A challenge for all of us? Mats Karlssohn
2001-07-12  2:54       ` DuckE
2001-07-11  9:01   ` Dmitry Kazakov
2001-07-11 17:27     ` Michal Nowak
2001-07-11 19:14       ` tmoran
2001-07-11 20:15         ` McDoobie
2001-07-12  2:20         ` Jeffrey Carter
2001-07-13 23:34           ` Bobby D. Bryant
2001-07-21 17:48     ` GianLuigi Piacentini
2001-07-16  8:40 Vinzent Hoefler
2001-07-23  0:47 ` Barry Kelly
2001-07-27 16:50   ` Vinzent Hoefler
2001-07-28 10:47     ` Barry Kelly
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2001-07-09 19:49 Michael Erdmann
2001-07-08 15:33 Michael Erdmann
2001-07-08 20:44 ` Bobby D. Bryant
2001-07-09  1:53 ` McDoobie
2001-07-09 16:50   ` Michal Nowak
2001-07-10  2:24   ` DuckE
2001-07-10 10:19     ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-07-10 22:39 ` Paul Storm
2001-07-11 20:15 ` James Squire
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