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From: James Rogers <jimmaureenrogers@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: is ada dead?
Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 01:48:38 GMT
Date: 2001-07-09T01:48:38+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <3B490E02.E50A409E@worldnet.att.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 3b48d27d_4@news3.prserv.net



Andrzej Lewandowski wrote:
> 
> "Michal Nowak" <vinnie@inetia.pl> wrote in message news:mailman.994589409.11874.comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org...
> > On 01-07-07, at 17:37, Andrzej Lewandowski  wrote:
>  >
> > Can be true, can be false. Program lifecycle is not only coding. There is also
> > maintnace, new versions developent. These phases are less money-consuming in
> > Ada than in other mentioned languages. One important thing - you buy compiler
> > one time and use it for long period. It is used for writting many programs.
> > So I think, that good compiler is worthy investing.
> >
> 
> I am sufficiektly familiar with the industry and business to respond
> just with single word: NONSENSE.

Not entirely. Ada is not always the cheapest compiler purchase.
Sometimes it is very competitive in compiler costs. With many other
languages you also must invest in a suite of enabling tools and
libraries to complete your work and your process. Many of these
expenses can be avoided for Ada. The overall cost of Ada development
environments is actually reasonably competitive with C, or C++.

With Java cost is quite variable. Do you use a free compiler, with
no support? You can do this with Ada, if you choose. Do you 
buy a compiler, and a set of JVM implementations for all your
host platforms? Do you buy a develpment tool such as Visual Age?

Most professional development environments require some kind of
professional tool support. Support costs money. With Java you have
the need for ongoing training to keep up with changes in the 
API from release to release. How well do third party compilers track
the Sun API changes? 

Java has a number of attractive features. Unfortunately, language
stability is not yet one of them. New Java versions are mostly
compatible with old versions. How much testing do you need to
perform to determine if your code has problems with the new version
of Java? What costs are related to that testing? 

The truth in industry and business is that most companies have no
idea what software costs. They employ software development and
maintenance staff. They purchase training and tools. They invest
in process development. They still run at CMM level 1. Most of their
software "knowledge" is no more than urban myth. Software projects
in most companies are traditionally over budget and behind
schedule. It is not unheard of for projects to take years to build,
with dozens of software developers, software analysts, software
testers, and software mangers, only to be cancelled. How do the
costs of any one technology, including compilers, languages, or
tools, begin to compare with the cost of uncontrolled software
projects? In fact, one of the biggest cost improvements for some
companies is to find a tool that makes the failure of the project
obvious at an earlier date, saving wasted money.

Changing languages should not be done without a good combination
of technical and financial reasons. Any fundamental technology
change increases the apparent risk of project failure because it 
adds uncertainty. Managers in many companies are working hard to
try to reduce software costs. Many of them actually fear software.
They are willing to try anything to make their bottom line look
better. They are also aware that it is possible to make things
even worse. The result is that they chase technology fads.
When they hear that their peers in some other company have switched
technologies, and they hear a lot of sales hyperbole about how
this new technology will fix their problems, they make the change.
This process is not logical. It is driven by fear and desperation.

Jim Rogers
Colorado Springs, Colorado USA



  reply	other threads:[~2001-07-09  1:48 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 169+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2001-07-05 21:56 is ada dead? tyler spivey
2001-07-05 23:11 ` James Rogers
2001-07-06  0:21 ` Gerhard Häring
2001-07-06  2:31 ` wzm
2001-07-06  7:47 ` Pascal Obry
2001-07-06 12:12 ` Martin Dowie
2001-07-06 21:33   ` Bobby D. Bryant
2001-07-06 14:04 ` Marin David Condic
     [not found]   ` <3B45E0E9.E3E7BB55@nokia.com>
2001-07-06 16:45     ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-06 18:28 ` Robert Dewar
2001-07-06 19:12 ` Lao Xiao Hai
2001-07-07  1:57   ` Adrian Hoe
2001-07-06 21:36     ` Bobby D. Bryant
2001-07-07 10:53       ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-07-07 18:44         ` James Rogers
2001-07-07 21:19           ` String support (was: is Ada dead?) Larry Kilgallen
2001-07-08  3:15           ` is ada dead? Stephen J. Bevan
2001-07-08  3:46             ` James Rogers
2001-07-08  5:29               ` Stephen J. Bevan
2001-07-09 14:27                 ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-08 11:07             ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-07-08 14:57               ` Stephen J. Bevan
2001-07-08 13:34       ` Me
2001-07-07 18:33     ` James Rogers
2001-07-07 22:41       ` Andrzej Lewandowski
2001-07-08  0:58         ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-07-09  1:33           ` Florian Weimer
2001-07-08  1:45         ` Jeffrey Carter
2001-07-08 17:19           ` Robert C. Leif, Ph.D.
2001-07-08 21:28             ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-07-09  2:46               ` Robert C. Leif, Ph.D.
2001-07-09 10:36                 ` Mandating code quality (was: is Ada dead?) Larry Kilgallen
2001-07-08 10:52         ` is ada dead? Michal Nowak
2001-07-08 22:38           ` Andrzej Lewandowski
2001-07-09  1:20             ` James Rogers
2001-07-09 14:45               ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-09 15:54                 ` Ted Dennison
2001-07-09 20:27                   ` Jerry Petrey
2001-07-09 21:08                     ` Ted Dennison
2001-07-14 16:49                     ` Stefan Skoglund
2001-07-10 23:59                   ` Why " raj
2001-07-14 16:53                     ` Stefan Skoglund
2001-07-14 23:14                       ` James Rogers
2001-07-15 22:57                         ` Stefan Skoglund
2001-07-16 14:00                         ` Trains in the US (was: Why is ada dead?) Ted Dennison
2001-07-10 23:56                 ` Why is ada dead? raj
2001-07-11  2:59                   ` James Rogers
2001-07-09 16:50             ` Michal Nowak
2001-07-15 18:14             ` Lao Xiao Hai
2001-07-16 15:38               ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-16 17:32                 ` Mark Lundquist
2001-07-16 22:18                   ` tmoran
2001-08-01 18:53                     ` "first-mover (dis)advantage" (was Re: is ada dead?) Mark Lundquist
2001-08-02 15:44                       ` Ted Dennison
2001-07-21 16:30                   ` is ada dead? Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-16 18:19                 ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-07-16 18:21                   ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-16 20:14                     ` Gary Scott
2001-07-16 18:26                   ` Mark Lundquist
2001-07-16 21:21               ` Michal Nowak
2001-07-10 23:31         ` raj
2001-07-10 23:32         ` raj
2001-07-10 23:46         ` "garbage dumps are full of superior solutions" raj
2001-07-10 23:47         ` Managers believe that Ada programmers are hard to find raj
2001-07-11  9:38           ` Martin Dowie
2001-07-11 12:39           ` Marc A. Criley
2001-07-11 17:32           ` Jeffrey Carter
2001-07-11 19:05             ` Pat Rogers
2001-07-07 22:37     ` is ada dead? Andrzej Lewandowski
2001-07-08  1:10       ` James Rogers
2001-07-08  1:47       ` Jeffrey Carter
2001-07-08  9:01       ` Pascal Obry
2001-07-08 10:52       ` Michal Nowak
2001-07-08 22:40         ` Andrzej Lewandowski
2001-07-09  1:48           ` James Rogers [this message]
2001-07-09 15:11           ` Jerry Petrey
2001-07-09 16:14             ` Al Christians
2001-07-09 19:35               ` Death by analogy Part 1 (was Re: is ada dead?) Michael P. Card
2001-07-09 19:52               ` Death by analogy Part 2 " Michael P. Card
2001-07-09 22:07                 ` Al Christians
2001-07-10  3:38                   ` Michael P. Card
2001-07-10  4:54                     ` Al Christians
2001-07-10 10:54                       ` Robert C. Leif, Ph.D.
2001-07-10 16:58                         ` Al Christians
2001-07-10 17:58                           ` William Dale
2001-07-10 18:39                           ` Michael P. Card
2001-07-10 20:10                             ` Ed Falis
2001-07-10 20:46                               ` Ted Dennison
2001-07-10 20:54                                 ` Ed Falis
2001-07-10 21:15                                   ` Ted Dennison
2001-07-10 21:29                                     ` Ed Falis
2001-07-10 21:10                               ` Al Christians
2001-07-10 21:26                                 ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-10 21:26                                 ` Ed Falis
2001-07-10 21:48                                   ` Ted Dennison
2001-07-10 21:56                                   ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-11  1:59                                     ` Ed Falis
2001-07-11  2:38                               ` DuckE
2001-07-11 21:00                                 ` Ed Falis
2001-07-12  1:42                                   ` DuckE
2001-07-12 10:54                                   ` UML for Ada raj
2001-07-12  8:03                                 ` Death by analogy Part 2 (was Re: is ada dead?) David Humphris
2001-07-13  2:43                                   ` DuckE
2001-07-23 21:53                                     ` Greg Bek
2001-07-20  7:49                                   ` Lao Xiao Hai
2001-07-10 20:26                             ` Ted Dennison
2001-07-10 20:39                             ` Al Christians
2001-07-10 20:42                               ` Ed Falis
2001-07-10 20:53                                 ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-10 21:11                               ` Michael P. Card
2001-07-11  5:25                                 ` Ada and UML raj
2001-07-11  9:40                                   ` David C. Hoos, Sr.
2001-07-13 19:00                                   ` Nick Williams
2001-07-13 19:46                                     ` Ted Dennison
2001-07-17  8:25                                       ` David Humphris
2001-07-16  0:56                                     ` Ken Garlington
2001-07-16  1:57                                       ` Ada and UML - Rational dropping Ada? Jeff Creem
2001-07-16 17:37                                         ` Ken Garlington
2001-07-17 18:59                                       ` Ada and UML Simon Wright
2001-07-23 14:38                                         ` John Kern
2001-08-04  6:29                                           ` Simon Wright
2001-07-11  0:25                             ` Sure FIRM is lost, but really, who cares raj
2001-07-11  0:33                             ` Death by analogy Part 2 (was Re: is ada dead?) Robert C. Leif, Ph.D.
2001-07-10 12:58                     ` John Kern
2001-07-10 13:59                   ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-10  1:21               ` is ada dead? Pat Rogers
2001-07-10  2:29                 ` Al Christians
2001-07-09  1:44       ` Florian Weimer
2001-07-08 21:05         ` Bobby D. Bryant
2001-07-09 10:43           ` One True Language (was: is Ada dead?) Larry Kilgallen
2001-07-09 15:09           ` is ada dead? Ted Dennison
2001-07-14 18:40           ` Stefan Skoglund
2001-07-09  2:37       ` Adrian Hoe
2001-07-07 23:03 ` chris.danx
2001-07-09 15:22   ` Ted Dennison
2001-07-09 16:13     ` chris.danx
2001-07-10  9:02     ` Emmanuel Briot
2001-07-10 10:29       ` Contributing patches to GPL Ada projects (was: Is Ada dead?) Larry Kilgallen
2001-07-10 12:44         ` Emmanuel Briot
2001-07-10 15:24           ` Ted Dennison
2001-07-10 22:33             ` Robert Dewar
2001-07-11  7:46               ` Florian Weimer
2001-07-11 13:07               ` Marc A. Criley
2001-07-11 16:26                 ` Robert Dewar
2001-07-11 13:41               ` Ted Dennison
2001-07-11 16:30                 ` Robert Dewar
2001-07-11 17:45                   ` Ted Dennison
2001-07-14 14:05                     ` Robert Dewar
2001-07-16 15:38                       ` Ted Dennison
2001-07-16 17:37                         ` Ken Garlington
2001-07-11 12:35           ` McDoobie
2001-07-12  8:16             ` Emmanuel Briot
2001-07-14 19:48               ` Stefan Skoglund
2001-07-15  0:16                 ` McDoobie
2001-07-18 16:17                 ` Stephen Leake
2001-07-18 17:55                   ` Pascal Obry
2001-07-19 23:13                   ` Stefan Skoglund
2001-07-20 17:05                     ` Stephen Leake
2001-07-10 13:58       ` is ada dead? Ted Dennison
2001-07-10 17:04       ` Pascal Obry
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2001-07-06  6:19 Vinzent Hoefler
2001-07-08 12:07 Gautier Write-only-address
2001-07-09  7:39 Vinzent Hoefler
2001-07-09 12:06 ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2001-07-09  7:40 Vinzent Hoefler
2001-07-09 13:23 Vinzent Hoefler
2001-07-09 13:24 Vinzent Hoefler
2001-07-09 16:20 Vinzent Hoefler
2001-07-10 14:02 Vinzent Hoefler
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