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From: "James A. Robertson" <jarober@mail.com>
Subject: Re: Market pressures for more reliable software
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 14:22:56 GMT
Date: 2001-06-16T14:22:56+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <3B2B6D5E.F9AE7CAB@mail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: jK3W6.8329$pb1.316095@www.newsranger.com

Ted Dennison wrote:
> When I capitalize "Free", its to indicate that I'm talking about FSF-style "Free
> Software".
> 

The problem occurs once your software reaches a 'mature' state - then
few are buying new licenses (there's no need), and few buy support (it's
mature and doesn't need it).  This is what is starting to happen with MS
Office, and is also something that has hit the development tools sector.

The answer that seems to work is a subscription model, which you can
find large numbers of people railing against.

The base problem is that over time, people in fact won't pay for support
- especially once the product gets to a state where it doesn't need a
lot of it.

> Nearly all software is already developed as custom software under a system where
> the deveopers are paid for the development. That includes *every* project I've
> ever worked on in my career. Even for most of the "licensed" commercial software
> I deal with, the "support" is the most expensive part. So using Free Software
> models wouldn't even noticably impact the vast majority of the software
> developed.
> 
> Of course this skirts around the issue that the small minority of software left
> actually gets distributed the most. But there are still ways to make money using
> Free Software in that realm. RedHat has shown that. They just won't make nearly
> as *much* money as they would if they could somehow charge a toll on each copy.
> 
> You bring up games. To answer your question directly, yes people *do* pay for
> "support" for games. 900-number "hint lines" for adventure games are not unheard
> of. Also, nearly every game company has some kind of customer support (the money
> to pay for for that obviously comes from game sales, so you can think of it as
> sort of a "support tax").
> 
> I've played computer games avidly for over 20 years (since back when games were
> distributed in compliation books as BASIC source code). So I have thought about
> this a lot. For a computer game, what I'd try to sell is the manual. There's
> already a racket going where the shipped manuals are useless, and anyone who
> wants to know what's really going on buys a "game guide". They might as well
> make it official. I also collect the boxes, and on one glorious occasion, got
> one autographed by the heads of the development team (Sid Meyer, Brian Reynolds,
> et al). So I'm quite confident that people would still pay for an official
> "hard" copy (perhaps even more for a hand-autographed one).
> 
> >Now there might be something to the notion of software developed under the
> >Ada Developer's Cooperative License (or similar) in that the guys who build
> >the code only get paid if the code gets used and sold. The only way for that
> 
> That might work out OK in a world of mass-produced shrink-wrapped software. But
> remember paragraph 1: the vast majority of software *developed* does not fit
> that mold. In the world in which I work, I can't use any nifty routine that's
> going to add to the system's costs, because *I* don't get to make those kinds of
> decisions. The folks that do are my managager's manager, who's already obsessing
> about overruns, and the paper-pushers off in accounting, who require all sorts
> of paperwork and market research and competitive sourcing and several weeks to
> make any kind of decision (You should see us trying to buy a PC video card
> before it goes obsolete. Its sad, really). Unless we are talking some pretty
> significant functionality, its far easier for me to just rewrite it all myself
> (and what a shameful waste of human effort that is!).
> 
> So that license might get some lucky package shipped in lots of software copies.
> But for the vast majority of *developers*, its just going to render the package
> useless.
> 
> ---
> T.E.D.    homepage   - http://www.telepath.com/dennison/Ted/TED.html
>           home email - mailto:dennison@telepath.com

-- 
James A. Robertson
Product Manager (Smalltalk), Cincom
jarober@mail.com
<Talk Small and Carry a Big Class Library>



  parent reply	other threads:[~2001-06-16 14:22 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 497+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2001-05-25  2:02 Long names are doom ? 00001111
2001-05-25  2:25 ` Chris Smith
2001-05-25  3:37   ` Jan Schaumann
2001-05-25  5:18     ` (null)
2001-05-25  6:12       ` Patricia Shanahan
2001-05-25 11:41     ` Charles Demas
2001-05-25  2:55 ` Larry Elmore
2001-05-25  3:21 ` Patricia Shanahan
2001-05-25  3:24   ` Roedy Green
2001-05-25  6:19   ` Jim Monty
2001-05-25  7:32     ` Jon Skeet
2001-05-25 12:23     ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-06-06 10:40     ` John
2001-06-08  3:24       ` Larry Elmore
2001-05-25 15:46   ` Everett M. Greene
2001-05-26 22:25   ` AG
2001-05-27 16:52     ` Shankar Unni
2001-05-27 19:02       ` Gary Scott
2001-05-27 19:36         ` Jon Skeet
2001-05-27 21:36           ` Gary Scott
2001-05-28  3:22         ` Roedy Green
2001-05-29 21:17     ` Wes Groleau
2001-05-30 12:04       ` Chris Smith
2001-06-01 11:39         ` Alvaro Segura
2001-06-01 13:50           ` Rev. Bob 'Bob' Crispen
2001-06-01 14:20             ` Marco Schmidt
2001-06-01 14:22             ` Choosing proper object names (was: Long names are doom ?) Ted Dennison
2001-06-04 16:32               ` Ray Blaak
2001-06-01 15:09             ` Long names are doom ? Marin David Condic
2001-06-01 18:54               ` Roedy Green
2001-06-01 19:38                 ` Marin David Condic
2001-06-01 21:08                   ` Pete Thompson
2001-06-02  5:29                     ` AG
2001-06-05 19:27                       ` Pete Thompson
2001-06-05 22:22                         ` Chris Uzdavinis
2001-06-06  0:13                           ` Pete Thompson
2001-06-06  9:33                             ` John English
2001-06-08  3:26                               ` Larry Elmore
2001-06-08 17:48                                 ` Wes Groleau
2001-06-08 22:47                                   ` Larry Elmore
2001-06-09  2:30                                     ` Patricia Shanahan
2001-06-09  2:08                                   ` Adam Beneschan
2001-06-08 13:20                               ` James Kanze
2001-06-08 13:38                                 ` John English
2001-06-08 17:07                                   ` Chris Uzdavinis
2001-06-08 13:16                         ` James Kanze
2001-06-02  5:51                     ` Simon Wright
2001-06-04 15:05                     ` Ted Dennison
2001-06-04 15:46                       ` Marin David Condic
2001-06-04 22:26                         ` Roedy Green
2001-06-05 11:42                           ` John English
2001-06-05 13:25                           ` Ted Dennison
2001-06-05 20:59                             ` Roedy Green
2001-06-05 21:15                             ` Roedy Green
2001-06-06 13:25                               ` Ted Dennison
2001-06-06 13:44                               ` Wes Groleau
2001-06-06 14:12                                 ` Marin David Condic
2001-06-06 21:01                                 ` Roedy Green
2001-06-06 22:16                                   ` Gary Scott
2001-06-07  2:32                               ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
2001-06-08 13:27                                 ` James Kanze
2001-06-08 14:37                                   ` Gary Scott
2001-06-13 12:31                                   ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
2001-06-05 19:44                           ` Dirk Bosmans
2001-06-05 21:47                             ` Roedy Green
2001-06-08 13:29                               ` James Kanze
2001-06-13 12:33                                 ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
2001-06-13 20:38                                   ` Roedy Green
2001-06-14  0:00                                     ` Jerry Petrey
2001-06-14 13:03                                     ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
2001-06-14 19:23                                       ` Conrad Schneiker
2001-06-05  0:40                         ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-06-05  1:53                           ` Roedy Green
2001-06-05  1:55                           ` Roedy Green
2001-06-05  9:17                             ` Blaikie
2001-06-05 17:24                             ` Gary Scott
2001-06-05  3:27                           ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-06-05  7:13                             ` Roedy Green
2001-06-05  9:20                               ` Blaikie
2001-06-05  9:35                                 ` Jon Skeet
2001-06-05  9:40                                   ` Blaikie
2001-06-05  9:57                                     ` Jon Skeet
2001-06-05 10:29                                       ` Blaikie
2001-06-05 13:46                                 ` Ted Dennison
2001-06-05 11:44                               ` John English
2001-06-05 14:28                               ` Marin David Condic
2001-06-05 15:56                             ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-06-05 15:58                             ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-06-05 17:03                               ` Jon Skeet
     [not found]                             ` <q81pht43ib89sjop0Organization <+FWVg+noA0yk@eisner.encompasserve.org>
2001-06-05 20:27                               ` Steve Bellenot
2001-06-05 21:55                                 ` Blaikie
2001-06-06  6:37                                   ` Jon Skeet
2001-06-06  8:18                                     ` Blaikie
2001-06-06  8:31                                       ` Jon Skeet
2001-06-06  8:58                                         ` Blaikie
2001-06-06 21:05                                       ` Roedy Green
2001-06-07 10:16                                         ` Jonathan Revusky
2001-06-08 14:06                                           ` James Kanze
2001-06-08 14:01                                     ` James Kanze
2001-06-05  3:32                           ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-06-05  4:13                           ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-06-05 19:59                         ` Pete Thompson
2001-06-05 20:47                           ` Marin David Condic
2001-06-05 23:08                             ` Pete Thompson
2001-06-06  9:14                               ` John English
2001-06-06 13:30                                 ` Creative? (was: Long names ....) Wes Groleau
2001-06-06 21:08                                 ` Long names are doom ? Pete Thompson
2001-06-06 11:30                               ` David Gillon
2001-06-06 15:26                                 ` Gary Scott
2001-06-06 21:17                                   ` Roedy Green
2001-06-07  8:10                                   ` John English
2001-06-07 21:58                                     ` Commenting code Roedy Green
2001-06-07 22:07                                       ` Jane Williams
2001-06-08  3:37                                         ` Larry Elmore
2001-06-08 13:27                                         ` Marin David Condic
2001-06-07 23:25                                       ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-06-07 23:17                                         ` Roedy Green
2001-06-08 14:17                                           ` James Kanze
2001-06-08  1:44                                       ` John English
2001-06-08  2:00                                         ` John English
2001-06-08  3:10                                         ` Roedy Green
2001-06-08  5:56                                           ` Roedy Green
2001-06-08 11:50                                           ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-06-08 13:45                                           ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
2001-06-08 14:24                                           ` James Kanze
2001-06-08 18:57                                             ` Wes Groleau
2001-06-11 10:38                                               ` James Kanze
2001-06-11 17:41                                                 ` Roedy Green
2001-06-13 12:44                                                 ` Alvaro Segura
2001-06-13 13:46                                                   ` Ted Dennison
2001-06-13 15:20                                                     ` Bill
2001-06-13 15:35                                                       ` Ted Dennison
2001-06-15 15:37                                                         ` John English
2001-06-15 19:59                                                           ` Karl Schmidt
2001-06-15  9:06                                                   ` tt
2001-06-08 15:42                                         ` Ted Dennison
2001-06-11 10:41                                           ` James Kanze
2001-06-11 13:18                                             ` Ted Dennison
2001-06-12  8:36                                               ` James Kanze
2001-06-08 18:47                                         ` Off-Topic "football" Wes Groleau
2001-06-08 13:42                                       ` Commenting code Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
2001-06-08 15:22                                         ` Donald L. Dobbs
2001-06-11 21:30                                           ` Wes Groleau
2001-06-11 21:53                                             ` Commenting code (a plea) Dave Thomas
2001-06-13 12:03                                           ` Commenting code Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
2001-06-13 18:13                                             ` Donald L. Dobbs
2001-06-14 12:43                                               ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
2001-06-14 16:22                                                 ` Donald L. Dobbs
2001-06-14 19:20                                                   ` Conrad Schneiker
2001-06-14 21:43                                                     ` Roedy Green
2001-06-14 22:48                                                       ` Michael Mauch
2001-06-15 16:36                                                       ` Charles Hixson
2001-06-17  2:09                                                     ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
2001-06-08 16:18                                       ` Ray Blaak
2001-06-08 16:45                                         ` Jon Skeet
2001-06-09  0:37                                           ` Ray Blaak
2001-06-08 23:18                                         ` Roedy Green
2001-06-06 21:19                                 ` Long names are doom ? Pete Thompson
2001-06-07 11:39                                   ` David Gillon
2001-06-07  2:46                                 ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
2001-06-06 15:25                               ` Marin David Condic
2001-06-06 22:53                                 ` Pete Thompson
2001-06-07 11:36                                   ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
2001-06-07 22:01                                     ` Roedy Green
2001-06-07 22:20                                       ` Jon Skeet
2001-06-08 14:20                                       ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
2001-06-07 13:58                                   ` Ted Dennison
2001-06-07 16:22                                     ` Marin David Condic
2001-06-07 18:14                                     ` Pete Thompson
2001-06-07 18:59                                       ` Ted Dennison
2001-06-07 20:30                                       ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-06-07 19:46                                         ` Marin David Condic
2001-06-07 20:20                                           ` Benjamin.Altman
2001-06-07 21:52                                             ` Blaikie
2001-06-07 22:35                                               ` Roedy Green
2001-06-07 22:04                                             ` Marin David Condic
2001-06-07 23:06                                               ` Eric The Read
2001-06-08 13:43                                                 ` Off Topic: Hot Coffee (was Re: Long names are doom ?) Marin David Condic
2001-06-11 20:51                                                   ` Re(ally): " Paul Graham
2001-06-12 19:43                                                     ` Marin David Condic
2001-06-07 23:14                                               ` Long names are doom ? Dan Mercer
2001-06-08  0:08                                               ` Roedy Green
2001-06-09  6:10                                               ` Dale King
2001-06-11 16:28                                                 ` software suits, was " tmoran
2001-06-11 19:13                                                   ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-06-11 18:47                                                     ` Marin David Condic
2001-06-12  5:31                                                       ` Robert C. Leif, Ph.D.
2001-06-12 13:40                                                         ` Marin David Condic
2001-06-12 13:34                                                       ` Dale King
2001-06-12 20:23                                                         ` Wes Groleau
2001-06-12 21:28                                                           ` Marin David Condic
2001-06-13  8:18                                                             ` James Kanze
2001-06-13 14:26                                                               ` Ted Dennison
2001-06-13 15:14                                                             ` Wes Groleau
2001-06-13 16:30                                                               ` Marin David Condic
2001-06-15  5:05                                                             ` Dale King
2001-06-12 21:09                                                         ` Marin David Condic
2001-06-13  1:38                                                         ` software lawsuits Roedy Green
2001-06-13  2:29                                                           ` Otis Bricker
2001-06-12 13:20                                                   ` software suits, was Re: Long names are doom ? Dale King
2001-06-13  8:28                                                     ` James Kanze
2001-06-15  5:09                                                       ` Dale King
2001-06-12  8:42                                                 ` James Kanze
2001-06-12 14:12                                                   ` Shrink-wrap licenses (was: Long names are doom ?) Ted Dennison
2001-06-12 15:01                                                   ` Long names are doom ? Dan Mercer
2001-06-12 17:16                                                     ` Marin David Condic
2001-06-12 21:21                                                       ` Dan Mercer
2001-06-12 22:07                                                         ` Off Topic: Legal Issues In Software - was " Marin David Condic
2001-06-13  3:54                                                         ` Roedy Green
2001-06-13 11:14                                                           ` Philip Anderson
2001-06-13 11:35                                                           ` Software Licensing (was: Long names are doom) Larry Kilgallen
2001-06-13 13:48                                                           ` Long names are doom ? Marin David Condic
2001-06-13 14:57                                                             ` Ted Dennison
2001-06-13 16:22                                                               ` Marin David Condic
2001-06-13 19:48                                                                 ` Market pressures for more reliable software Roedy Green
2001-06-13 20:42                                                                   ` Ted Dennison
2001-06-13 21:27                                                                     ` Marin David Condic
2001-06-14  5:09                                                                       ` Robert C. Leif, Ph.D.
2001-06-14 14:15                                                                         ` Ada Developer's Cooperative License (was) " Marin David Condic
2001-06-14 18:51                                                                           ` Robert C. Leif, Ph.D.
2001-06-14 21:09                                                                             ` Marin David Condic
2001-06-15  3:56                                                                               ` Robert C. Leif, Ph.D.
2001-06-15 13:55                                                                                 ` Marin David Condic
2001-06-21  7:11                                                                             ` Colin Paul Gloster
2001-06-22 15:32                                                                               ` Robert C. Leif, Ph.D.
2001-06-14 14:19                                                                       ` Ted Dennison
2001-06-14 14:53                                                                         ` Marin David Condic
2001-06-14 15:55                                                                           ` Ted Dennison
2001-06-15 15:21                                                                           ` Gautier
2001-06-15 15:36                                                                             ` Marin David Condic
2001-06-18 16:26                                                                           ` Wes Groleau
2001-06-14 15:30                                                                         ` Ed Jensen
2001-06-14 16:11                                                                           ` Marin David Condic
2001-06-14 17:32                                                                             ` Ted Dennison
2001-06-14 17:55                                                                               ` Charles Hixson
2001-06-14 20:10                                                                                 ` Roedy Green
2001-06-16 23:48                                                                                   ` Larry Elmore
2001-06-14 20:09                                                                               ` Roedy Green
2001-06-14 21:43                                                                                 ` Ted Dennison
2001-06-16  2:41                                                                                   ` Roedy Green
2001-06-16 23:08                                                                                     ` Joseph T. Adams
2001-06-18 14:23                                                                                     ` Ted Dennison
2001-06-15  3:44                                                                                 ` Robert C. Leif, Ph.D.
2001-06-18 16:53                                                                                   ` Wes Groleau
2001-08-07  1:08                                                                                 ` The Ghost In The Machine
2001-08-07  2:38                                                                                   ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
2001-08-13 14:14                                                                                     ` The Ghost In The Machine
2001-06-15  6:59                                                                               ` Joseph T. Adams
2001-06-15 15:43                                                                               ` Ed Jensen
2001-06-16  2:45                                                                                 ` Roedy Green
2001-06-16  2:45                                                                                 ` Roedy Green
2001-06-16 14:25                                                                                   ` James A. Robertson
2001-06-16 17:48                                                                                     ` Roedy Green
2001-06-16 19:16                                                                                       ` James A. Robertson
2001-06-18 14:49                                                                                   ` Ted Dennison
2001-06-18 15:46                                                                                     ` Al Christians
2001-06-18 16:16                                                                                       ` Ted Dennison
2001-06-18 17:09                                                                                       ` Marin David Condic
2001-06-18 18:02                                                                                         ` Ted Dennison
2001-06-18 18:04                                                                                         ` Al Christians
2001-06-18 20:06                                                                                           ` Marin David Condic
2001-06-18 21:43                                                                                         ` tmoran
2001-06-18 21:29                                                                                       ` Charles Hixson
2001-06-18 22:23                                                                                         ` Al Christians
2001-06-20 15:49                                                                                           ` Charles Hixson
2001-06-19 12:18                                                                                         ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
2001-06-16 22:30                                                                               ` Florian Weimer
2001-06-14 17:56                                                                         ` David Chase
2001-06-16 14:22                                                                         ` James A. Robertson [this message]
2001-06-16 23:23                                                                           ` Al Christians
2001-06-17  1:38                                                                             ` tmoran
2001-06-18 13:59                                                                             ` Marin David Condic
2001-06-18 13:49                                                                           ` Marin David Condic
2001-06-19 12:09                                                                             ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
2001-06-19 14:23                                                                               ` Marin David Condic
2001-06-20  4:33                                                                                 ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
2001-06-20 15:55                                                                                 ` Charles Hixson
2001-06-20 16:55                                                                                   ` Marin David Condic
2001-06-20 23:55                                                                                     ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
2001-06-20 18:38                                                                                 ` Roedy Green
     [not found]                                                                         ` <tM4W6.14397$Dd5.34 <3B28FAD5.5FFB643F@world.std.com>
2001-06-17  2:38                                                                           ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
2001-06-13 22:42                                                                     ` tmoran
2001-06-13 22:44                                                                   ` Larry Elmore
2001-06-14 16:57                                                                     ` Charles Hixson
2001-06-14 13:09                                                                   ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
2001-06-14 14:28                                                                     ` Ted Dennison
2001-06-14 20:25                                                                     ` Roedy Green
2001-06-17  2:43                                                                       ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
2001-06-13 22:02                                                                 ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-06-14 14:47                                                                 ` Long names are doom ? Wes Groleau
2001-06-21  1:41                                                                 ` Market pressures for more reliable software Larry Kilgallen
2001-06-21  1:38                                                             ` Larry Kilgallen
     [not found]                                                             ` <kbLV6.6795$pb1.259296@www.nOrganization: LJK Software <aPN5ieyHFSfT@eisner.encompasserve.org>
2001-06-21 14:20                                                               ` Marin David Condic
2001-06-24 22:31                                                               ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
2001-06-25  0:01                                                                 ` Ken Garlington
2001-06-25 12:50                                                                   ` Ken Garlington
2001-06-26 11:52                                                                     ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
2001-06-27  9:41                                                                       ` Gary Labowitz
2001-06-27 21:09                                                                         ` Roedy Green
2001-06-28  0:31                                                                           ` tmoran
2001-06-28 11:45                                                                         ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
2001-06-25  8:09                                                                 ` Gary Labowitz
2001-06-25 14:13                                                                   ` Marin David Condic
2001-06-25 15:35                                                                     ` David C. Hoos
2001-06-25 16:50                                                                       ` Marin David Condic
2001-06-25 17:08                                                                       ` Wes Groleau
2001-06-25 21:32                                                                         ` Al Christians
2001-07-02  4:49                                                                         ` David Thompson
2001-06-26 12:02                                                                     ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
2001-06-26 12:48                                                                       ` David C. Hoos
2001-06-26 14:08                                                                       ` Al Christians
2001-06-26 15:00                                                                         ` Marin David Condic
2001-06-26 15:41                                                                           ` Wes Groleau
2001-06-27  3:33                                                                           ` Robert C. Leif, Ph.D.
2001-06-27 13:31                                                                             ` Marin David Condic
2001-06-26 17:39                                                                         ` tmoran
2001-06-26 16:26                                                                       ` Roedy Green
2001-06-28 11:50                                                                         ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
2001-06-28 21:32                                                                           ` Roedy Green
2001-06-28 12:20                                                                         ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
2001-07-01  0:50                                                                       ` Lao Xiao Hai
2001-07-02 11:41                                                                         ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
2001-07-03  6:43                                                                           ` Lao Xiao Hai
2001-07-04 14:40                                                                             ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
2001-07-04 21:00                                                                               ` Phil Robyn
2001-07-05 11:12                                                                                 ` Gary Labowitz
2001-07-05 17:00                                                                                   ` Phil Robyn
2001-07-05 11:10                                                                               ` Gary Labowitz
2001-07-05 13:27                                                                                 ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-06  2:47                                                                                   ` Ken Garlington
2001-07-06 23:24                                                                                     ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
2001-07-07 17:45                                                                                       ` Ken Garlington
2001-07-08  2:54                                                                                         ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
     [not found]                                                                                         ` <3B47CB75.234C0543@acm.or g>
2001-07-16  0:56                                                                                           ` Ken Garlington
2001-07-16 12:03                                                                                             ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
2001-07-16 17:37                                                                                               ` Ken Garlington
2001-07-17  0:18                                                                                                 ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
2001-07-20 15:48                                                                                                   ` Ken Garlington
2001-07-22 15:37                                                                                                     ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
2001-07-23  2:44                                                                                                       ` Ken Garlington
2001-07-23 10:09                                                                                                         ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
2001-07-23 11:35                                                                                                           ` [OT] " Ken Garlington
2001-07-24  0:56                                                                                                             ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
2001-07-24 12:02                                                                                                               ` Ken Garlington
2001-07-06 23:15                                                                                   ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
2001-07-06 23:11                                                                                 ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
2001-06-13 15:22                                                         ` Long names are doom ? Wes Groleau
2001-06-14 12:51                                                       ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
2001-06-14 13:49                                                         ` Marin David Condic
2001-06-17  2:28                                                           ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
2001-06-13  8:39                                                     ` James Kanze
2001-06-13  9:51                                                       ` Blaikie
2001-06-13 15:41                                                         ` Wes Groleau
2001-06-13 17:35                                                           ` Ted Dennison
2001-06-13 20:19                                                           ` Roedy Green
2001-06-13 22:04                                                             ` Software Lawsuits (was: LOng names are doom ?) Larry Kilgallen
2001-06-14 13:56                                                               ` Marin David Condic
2001-06-15 15:50                                                             ` Long names are doom ? John English
2001-06-14 12:53                                                     ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
2001-06-08  3:54                                           ` Larry Elmore
2001-06-08  4:50                                             ` Gary Labowitz
2001-06-12 22:57                                               ` Larry Elmore
2001-06-08  5:59                                             ` Roedy Green
2001-06-08 17:06                                               ` Eric The Read
2001-06-08 23:20                                                 ` Roedy Green
2001-06-08 22:55                                               ` Larry Elmore
2001-06-08 13:52                                             ` Off Topic: Stupid Bureaucrats (was Re: Long names are doom ?) Marin David Condic
2001-06-08 14:45                                               ` Philip Anderson
2001-06-08 16:51                                                 ` Earl R Coker
2001-06-09  1:23                                                 ` Blaikie
2001-06-08 16:26                                               ` Chris Smith
2001-06-08 16:41                                                 ` Long Threads are doom? " Benjamin.Altman
2001-06-08 23:57                                                 ` Off Topic: Stupid Bureaucrats " Roedy Green
2001-06-08 23:52                                               ` mismatch between actual threat and perceived threat Roedy Green
2001-06-11 13:25                                                 ` Ted Dennison
2001-06-11 17:46                                                   ` Roedy Green
     [not found]                                               ` <vcn2itcjoscsqfppcmrabm2441uuvblfoa@4ax.c <wF3V6.3766$pb1.137507@www.newsranger.com>
2001-06-11 13:46                                                 ` mismatch between actual relevant newsgroups and perceived relevant newsgroups Kenny McCormack
2001-06-17  0:34                                                   ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
2001-06-11 13:54                                               ` Off Topic: Stupid Bureaucrats (was Re: Long names are doom ?) Leif Roar Moldskred
2001-06-07 19:44                                     ` Long names are doom ? tmoran
2001-06-07 17:37                                   ` Wes Groleau
2001-06-08 14:31                                   ` James Kanze
2001-06-08 18:19                                     ` Pete Thompson
2001-06-09  1:15                                       ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-06-11 10:52                                         ` James Kanze
2001-06-13 12:37                                         ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
2001-06-09  3:51                                     ` Patricia Shanahan
2001-06-11 10:56                                       ` James Kanze
2001-06-09 12:06                                 ` Memory Allocation without pointer arithmetic ? (was: Long names...) Larry Kilgallen
     [not found]                                 ` <vj7tht0jkrkoivki4lsadlivgghdr0Organization <9BiaJoj4VeFk@eisner.encompasserve.org>
2001-06-09 14:58                                   ` Kenny McCormack
2001-06-09 21:46                                     ` Jane Williams
     [not found]                                 ` <vj7tht0jkrkoivki4lsadlivgghdr0Organization: LJK Software <9BiaJoj4VeFk@eisner.encompasserve.org>
2001-06-09 12:34                                   ` Patricia Shanahan
2001-06-10  6:56                                   ` Mark Yudkin
2001-06-10 14:04                                 ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-06-10 14:15                                 ` Larry Kilgallen
     [not found]                                 ` <vj7tht0jkrkoivki4lsadlivgghdr0Organization <$l53AZgRoQvs@eisner.encompasserve.org>
2001-06-10 14:17                                   ` Kenny McCormack
     [not found]                                 ` <vj7tht0jkrkoivki4lsadlivgghdr0Organization: LJK Software <uR1t+dk$wTpD@eisner.encompasserve.org>
2001-06-10 18:24                                   ` Chris Smith
2001-06-06 21:10                               ` Long names are doom ? Roedy Green
2001-06-07  2:20                               ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
2001-06-07 18:27                                 ` Pete Thompson
2001-06-08 14:12                                   ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
     [not found]                         ` <pb2ohtgs64jhssmmohpq5qr7nmcsq6119c@4a <Bh0r7ajFbl7x@eisner.encompasserve.org>
2001-06-05 20:35                           ` Simon Wright
2001-06-05 19:56                       ` Pete Thompson
2001-06-05 20:46                         ` Simon Wright
2001-06-07  2:11                         ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
2001-06-07 15:34                           ` Dale King
2001-06-08  4:38                             ` Donald L. Dobbs
     [not found]                               ` <GELwCw.K0r@approve.se>
2001-06-09  9:23                                 ` AG
     [not found]                                   ` <GEnxK3.3n8@approve.se>
2001-06-09 21:01                                     ` AG
2001-06-13 12:23                               ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
2001-06-13 12:17                             ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
2001-06-15 15:53                               ` John English
2001-06-07 18:26                           ` Pete Thompson
2001-06-08 14:09                             ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
2001-06-17 12:41                           ` HarryO
2001-06-05 11:24                     ` John English
2001-06-05 13:53                       ` Ted Dennison
2001-06-05 14:10                         ` Jon Skeet
2001-06-05 16:02                         ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-06-08 14:47                         ` James Kanze
2001-06-08 17:43                           ` tmoran
2001-06-10  1:26                             ` AG
2001-06-05 12:53                     ` Philip Anderson
2001-06-05 14:29                     ` James Kanze
2001-06-05 14:52                       ` Marin David Condic
2001-06-05 16:05                         ` Philip Anderson
2001-06-05 16:41                           ` Marin David Condic
2001-06-06  4:28                             ` Dale King
2001-06-06  9:07                             ` Philip Anderson
2001-06-06  9:21                             ` John English
2001-06-06 13:46                               ` Ted Dennison
2001-06-06 15:29                                 ` Marin David Condic
2001-06-06 11:37                           ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-06-05 19:52                         ` Matthew Woodcraft
2001-06-07 10:26                         ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2001-06-07 16:07                           ` Marin David Condic
2001-06-08  9:45                             ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2001-06-08 14:52                             ` James Kanze
     [not found]                           ` <9fo8sb$qrc$1@n <3B20E6C9.562E8BE6@dresdner-bank.com>
2001-06-09  6:00                             ` Simon Wright
2001-06-05 16:04                       ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-06-05 14:26                 ` James Kanze
2001-06-05 14:45                   ` Jon Skeet
2001-06-08 14:55                     ` James Kanze
2001-06-01 20:32               ` Wes Groleau
2001-06-02  4:27               ` AG
2001-06-01 17:33             ` Wes Groleau
2001-06-02  6:19               ` Simon Wright
2001-06-04 14:22                 ` Marin David Condic
2001-06-01 18:48             ` Roedy Green
2001-06-02 20:28               ` Edward Rosten
2001-06-05 14:23             ` James Kanze
2001-06-01 14:18           ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-06-01 15:35           ` Wes Groleau
2001-06-01 15:41             ` Jon Skeet
2001-06-01 20:44               ` Wes Groleau
2001-06-02 17:31                 ` Jon Skeet
2001-06-05 11:52                   ` Georg Bauhaus
2001-06-05 12:13                     ` Jon Skeet
2001-06-05 11:52         ` John English
2001-05-30 14:14       ` Marin David Condic
2001-05-30 20:50         ` Roedy Green
2001-06-04  0:37         ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
2001-06-04 14:41           ` Marin David Condic
2001-06-04 22:33             ` Roedy Green
2001-06-05 14:40               ` Marin David Condic
2001-06-05 14:49             ` James Kanze
2001-05-25  5:42 ` Steve Bellenot
2001-05-25 11:39   ` Peter Fitzgibbons
2001-05-25 13:34   ` Marin David Condic
2001-05-25 19:31     ` Roedy Green
2001-05-25 20:23       ` Larry Hazel
2001-05-26  0:39       ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-05-29  9:41       ` John English
2001-05-29 19:32         ` Roedy Green
2001-05-29 20:35           ` Marin David Condic
2001-05-29 14:55       ` Marin David Condic
2001-06-09  9:15         ` Kent Dahl
2001-05-29 21:25       ` Wes Groleau
2001-05-25  5:46 ` tmoran
2001-05-25  6:12 ` Patrick Logan
2001-05-25 11:25 ` Florian Weimer
2001-05-25 12:11 ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-05-25 13:17 ` Marin David Condic
2001-05-25 17:35 ` tmoran
2001-05-25 19:17   ` Marin David Condic
2001-05-25 21:23   ` Jon Skeet
2001-05-26 21:28 ` Tom Spilman
2001-05-27 13:53   ` Gary Scott
2001-06-01 23:11 ` 00001111
2001-06-07 11:33 ` Phil K
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2001-06-28  4:01 Market pressures for more reliable software robin
2001-06-28  7:30 ` Roedy Green
2001-06-28 16:12   ` Dale King
2001-06-28 12:16 ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
2001-06-29 12:14 ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
2001-07-01 13:55 robin
2001-07-06  0:09 R. Vowels
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