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From: David Gillon <david.gillon@baesystems.com>
Subject: Re: Beginner's Language?
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 18:15:12 +0100
Date: 2001-05-10T18:15:12+01:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <3AFACCA0.303A79AF@baesystems.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: x58zk6zjv8.fsf@arenal.cyberell.com



Ola Rinta-Koski wrote:
> 
> (let ((foo 0))
>   (dotimes (i 5)
>     (incf foo (read)))
>   foo)
> 
> > Now look at it. Could a neophite with literally *zero*
> > experience in programming computers read it and stand a chance of
> > understanding what it does or how it does it?
> 
>   Not being a neophyte, I'll just have to guess: yes and yes.

Well, I'll admit that despite a CS degree (including a course
specifically aimed at comparing different languages) and fifteen years
in the industry I can't claim to know what this code does, so any
complete neophyte is going to be floundering. I can guess we have a loop
doing something to Foo, but beyond that ...? Sum five (could also be 6)
inputs seems most likely, but that's based on my knowledge of parallel
constructs in other languages and therefore more than a true neophyte
could get.

Despite all the criticisms that can legitimately be levelled at BASIC I
originally taught myself to code from BASIC examples in computer
magazines, I don't believe that would have been true if they had looked
like the example above instead of paralleling natural language. And what
BASIC does better than this Pascal and Ada do better still.

There's also a strong cultural element to be considered beyond the
strict grammar of the language. A language that stays close to natural
language (at least for the anglophone part of the population), which
encourages meaningful variable names and cleanly structured, readable,
well commented code is going to be far easier for someone with limited
knowledge to understand (or maintain). A CS/SE course that teaches good
coding practise rather than just coding is going to produce people
who'll be both more useful to their employers and gain the course a good
reputation

I much prefer the following to the example above and I believe that even
with all comments stripped out it would be inherently easier to
understand for a struggling student:

procedure Sum_Five_Values is

  -- Description : 
  --   Example showing clear coding practice, sums five integer inputs 
  --   and displays result

  -- Input Parameters  : 
  --   None (uses keyboard)
  -- Output Parameters : 
  --   None (uses screen)

  -- Modification History :
  --   10-05-2001, Initial version, DWG
  --   <DD-MM-YYYY>,<Description of change>,<Author>

  Total_Count   : Integer := 0;
  Entered_Value : Integer;

begin

  -- Sum five inputs from the keyboard
  for Loop_Counter := 1 .. 5 do
  begin
    Put_Line ("Enter an integer value and press return");
    Get (Entered_Value);
    Total_Count := Total_Count + Entered_Value;
  end;

  -- report the final result to the screen
  Put("Total Value = ");
  Put_Line(Total_Count);

end Sum_Five_Values;

-- 

David Gillon



  parent reply	other threads:[~2001-05-10 17:15 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 232+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2001-05-04 16:12 Beginner's Language? Faisal Halim
2001-05-04 16:29 ` Marin David Condic
2001-05-04 17:14 ` chris.danx
2001-05-04 22:35 ` Jeffrey Carter
2001-05-05  1:51 ` raj
2001-05-05 14:51   ` Carl E Gundel
2001-05-05 18:12   ` Dodger
2001-05-05 19:06     ` Jochen Schmidt
2001-05-05 22:59       ` Randal L. Schwartz
2001-05-05 23:38         ` Jochen Schmidt
2001-05-08 16:01           ` John English
2001-05-08 18:37             ` Brian Rogoff
2001-05-09 11:31               ` John English
2001-05-09 14:33                 ` Ehud Lamm
2001-05-09 16:40             ` Charles Hixson
2001-05-06  2:19         ` Jeffrey Carter
2001-05-18 23:02       ` glauber
2001-05-05 20:09     ` Jeffrey Carter
2001-05-06  1:50     ` raj
2001-05-06  2:09       ` raj
2001-05-06  2:09       ` raj
2001-05-06 15:49         ` Randal L. Schwartz
2001-05-06 22:37           ` Multiparadigm Languages : (was Beginners Language) raj
2001-05-06 22:50           ` Beginner's Language? raj
2001-05-06 23:13           ` Multiparadigm Languages : (was Beginners Language) raj
2001-05-05 19:49   ` Beginner's Language? Larry Kilgallen
2001-05-05 22:52     ` Reinout Heeck
2001-05-06  0:03       ` Dale Stanbrough
2001-05-06  1:47         ` Reinout Heeck
2001-05-06  3:38           ` Dale Stanbrough
2001-05-06  4:05             ` Reinout Heeck
2001-05-06 10:49               ` SV: " Dan Andersson
2001-05-06 11:42                 ` Reinout Heeck
2001-05-06 13:31                   ` SV: " Dan Andersson
2001-05-06 20:17             ` Dave Harris
2001-05-07 10:41     ` Biep @ http://www.biep.org
2001-05-07 10:57       ` Andrew Cooke
2001-05-09 10:22         ` Biep @ http://www.biep.org/
2001-05-10  5:45           ` Raffael Cavallaro
2001-05-10  9:02           ` Jochen Schmidt
2001-05-07 14:24   ` Marin David Condic
2001-05-07 15:45     ` Friedrich Dominicus
2001-05-09  7:19       ` Espen Vestre
2001-05-09 13:55       ` Marin David Condic
2001-05-09 14:18         ` Ola Rinta-Koski
2001-05-09 15:53           ` Marin David Condic
2001-05-10 17:15           ` David Gillon [this message]
2001-05-10 19:50             ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-05-10 20:15             ` Marie-No�lle Baechler
2001-05-11  5:29             ` Friedrich Dominicus
2001-05-27 12:59               ` Alejandro R. Mosteo
2001-05-27 22:34                 ` Larry Elmore
2001-06-03 21:18                   ` Stefan Skoglund
2001-05-09 14:53         ` Biep @ http://www.biep.org/
2001-05-09 15:39         ` Friedrich Dominicus
2001-05-09 18:24           ` Andreas Krennmair
2001-05-09 23:01             ` Sashank Varma
2001-05-10  0:01               ` David Starner
2001-05-10  6:10                 ` Mark VandeWettering
2001-05-10  8:08                 ` FM
2001-05-10 15:07                 ` Eugene Zaikonnikov
2001-05-10 20:08                 ` David Thornley
2001-05-16 18:00                 ` Robert Posey
2001-05-16 18:19                   ` stephan
2001-05-21  4:15                     ` Lao Xiao Hai
2001-05-21 11:53                       ` raj
2001-05-23 10:33                         ` Liam Devlin
2001-05-21 21:30                       ` Marie-No�lle Baechler
2001-05-27 12:59                     ` Alejandro R. Mosteo
2001-05-30 20:26                     ` Florian Weimer
2001-05-30 21:56                       ` Johan Kullstam
2001-05-31  9:01                         ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2001-05-31 13:29                           ` Raymond Toy
2001-05-31 13:51                             ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2001-05-16 20:44                   ` brlewis
2001-05-21  5:09                   ` vsync
2001-05-10  6:06             ` Mark VandeWettering
2001-05-10  7:57               ` Andrew Bromage
2001-05-10  8:55                 ` Iain McNaughton
2001-05-15  2:02                   ` Rob Warnock
2001-05-15 11:56                     ` Andreas Krennmair
2001-05-15 17:14                       ` FM
2001-05-15 18:08                         ` Andreas Krennmair
2001-05-15 20:37                           ` FM
2001-05-16 17:56                             ` Andreas Krennmair
2001-05-17  3:06                               ` FM
     [not found]                 ` <3AFA5A92.5D4F191C@info.unicaen.fr>
     [not found]                   ` <3AFAD076.C5F31B44@research.bell-labs.com>
     [not found]                     ` <m37kz1utg9.fsf@chaos.resnet.gatech.edu>
2001-06-05 13:03                       ` Biep @ http://www.biep.org/
2001-05-10 13:03               ` John English
2001-05-10 13:44                 ` Michael Livshin
2001-05-16 17:59                   ` Lex Spoon
2001-05-22 14:16                     ` John English
2001-05-22 16:40                       ` Poetry in source code (was: Beginner's Language?) Ted Dennison
2001-05-23 15:24                         ` John English
2001-05-23 17:34                           ` Preben Randhol
2001-05-22 23:31                       ` Beginner's Language? raj
2001-05-23  0:44                       ` Chad R. Meiners
2001-05-28  0:17                       ` Lao Xiao Hai
2001-05-28 19:39                         ` poetry in PL's? (was: Beginner's Language?) Lex Spoon
2001-05-29 13:44                           ` Ted Dennison
2001-05-30 20:34                         ` Beginner's Language? Florian Weimer
2001-05-10  7:28             ` FM
2001-05-10  8:51               ` Jochen Schmidt
2001-05-10 21:32                 ` FM
2001-05-11  0:26                   ` James Rogers
2001-05-12  2:56                 ` FM
2001-05-12 17:06                 ` FM
2001-05-11 15:55               ` Andreas Krennmair
2001-05-11 23:50                 ` [OT] Software Engineering at 14 (was: Re: Beginner's Language?) FM
2001-05-12 11:59                   ` raj
2001-05-12 14:17                     ` Andrew Cooke
2001-05-12 17:09                       ` FM
2001-05-12 14:40                     ` Andreas Krennmair
2001-05-13  1:44                       ` raj
2001-05-13  8:28                         ` [OT] Software Engineering at 14 Markus Mottl
2001-05-13 10:41                           ` Mark Wotton
2001-05-13 12:04                             ` Markus Mottl
2001-05-13 12:48                               ` Mark Wotton
2001-05-13 13:05                                 ` Daniel C. Wang
2001-05-13 22:09                           ` FM
2001-05-13 23:44                             ` Markus Mottl
2001-05-12 19:23                     ` [OT] Software Engineering at 14 (was: Re: Beginner's Language?) Marco Antoniotti
2001-05-12 22:38                     ` [OT] Software Engineering at 14 Markus Mottl
2001-05-13  2:48                     ` [OT] Software Engineering at 14 (was: Re: Beginner's Language?) Jorn W Janneck
2001-05-13  3:00                       ` raj
2001-05-13  8:59                         ` [OT] Software Engineering at 14 Markus Mottl
2001-05-13 11:38                           ` Karel Thönissen
2001-05-13 12:46                             ` Markus Mottl
2001-05-13 14:29                               ` Karel Thönissen
2001-05-13  9:44                         ` [OT] Software Engineering at 14 (was: Re: Beginner's Language?) Andrew Bromage
2001-05-14  7:21                         ` Jorn W Janneck
2001-05-15 22:53                     ` [OT] Software Engineering at 14 Reini Urban
2001-05-15 23:24                       ` FM
2001-05-12 14:33                   ` [OT] Software Engineering at 14 (was: Re: Beginner's Language?) Andreas Krennmair
2001-05-12 20:37                     ` FM
2001-05-12 21:56                       ` Andreas Krennmair
2001-05-12 23:50                         ` FM
2001-05-13  8:02                           ` Andreas Krennmair
2001-05-13 20:55                             ` FM
2001-05-14  9:27                       ` Biep @ http://www.biep.org/
2001-05-13  8:29                     ` thi
2001-05-12 17:20                   ` [OT] Software Engineering at 14 Markus Mottl
2001-05-13 20:15                   ` [OT] Software Engineering at 14 (was: Re: Beginner's Language?) Peter Schuller
2001-05-13 21:54                     ` FM
2001-05-14  4:42                       ` Peter Schuller
2001-05-14  6:21                         ` FM
2001-05-14 18:37                           ` Peter Schuller
2001-05-14 21:18                             ` FM
2001-05-14 22:45                               ` Peter Schuller
2001-05-15  7:49                             ` David Rush
2001-05-15 19:29                               ` Peter Schuller
2001-05-17 15:21                                 ` David Rush
2001-05-17 23:19                                   ` Peter Schuller
2001-05-18  9:50                                     ` Biep @ http://www.biep.org/
2001-05-14  6:30                         ` Peter Schuller
2001-05-14 12:21                         ` James A. Robertson
2001-05-14 10:15                     ` Biep @ http://www.biep.org/
2001-05-15  9:19                 ` Beginner's Language? Siegfried Gonzi
2001-05-15  9:47                   ` Preben Randhol
2001-05-15 12:06                   ` Andreas Krennmair
2001-05-10  8:11             ` Friedrich Dominicus
2001-05-10 11:09             ` Markus Mottl
2001-05-10 14:44             ` Eugene Zaikonnikov
2001-05-10 15:34             ` ssthapa
2001-05-14 19:58             ` Johan Kullstam
2001-05-14 20:14               ` Matthias Blume
2001-05-16 16:16                 ` J�rgen Exner
2001-05-16 20:49                   ` Matthias Blume
2001-05-17  0:22                     ` Boris Smilga
2001-05-17  1:29                     ` a
2001-05-17  3:07                       ` FM
2001-05-17 13:56                       ` Matthias Blume
2001-05-17 17:54                         ` J�rgen Exner
2001-05-09 22:56         ` David Thornley
2001-05-10  9:16           ` Ola Rinta-Koski
2001-05-10 20:17             ` David Thornley
2001-05-10  5:53         ` Mark VandeWettering
2001-05-10  9:22         ` Francis Leboutte
2001-05-10 15:13         ` Georg Bauhaus
2001-05-10 16:49           ` Jochen Schmidt
2001-05-10 17:04             ` Friedrich Dominicus
2001-05-11  7:34           ` Ola Rinta-Koski
2001-05-11 14:47             ` Georg Bauhaus
2001-05-10 15:17         ` brlewis
2001-05-08  0:15     ` Dodger
2001-05-16 16:55       ` Lex Spoon
2001-05-16 17:42         ` Markus Kliegl
2001-05-19 14:24           ` Lex Spoon
2001-05-08  7:11     ` Tarjei T. Jensen
2001-05-08  7:23       ` ronald schroder
2001-05-16 17:53         ` Lex Spoon
2001-05-17  0:54           ` Tim May
2001-05-17  1:15             ` Gary Scott
2001-05-17  7:20               ` Tom Lake
2001-05-19 14:40                 ` Lex Spoon
2001-05-17  8:20           ` Biep @ http://www.biep.org/
2001-05-17 12:43             ` illya
2001-05-08 13:38       ` Marin David Condic
2001-05-08 23:46         ` Beginner's Ide raj
2001-05-09 14:00           ` Marin David Condic
2001-05-09 14:36             ` chris.danx
2001-05-09 19:09               ` Charles Hixson
2001-05-09 19:06           ` Charles Hixson
2001-05-10  6:20             ` Pascal Obry
2001-05-10 15:31               ` Charles Hixson
2001-05-10 16:12                 ` James Rogers
2001-05-10 16:01             ` Stephen Leake
2001-05-11  1:54               ` Retraction : ( Was: Beginner's Ide) raj
2001-05-11 11:44               ` Beginner's Ide Georg Bauhaus
2001-05-11 21:30                 ` Stephen Leake
2001-05-12 17:15                   ` Simon Wright
2001-05-09  5:32     ` Beginner's Language? Simon Wright
2001-05-10 21:50       ` Gary Scott
2001-05-11  2:14       ` raj
2001-05-10  8:02   ` OZ as a beginners' banguage? Biep @ http://www.biep.org/
2001-05-10  8:06     ` Andrew Cooke
2001-05-11 11:13     ` Torbjörn Lager
2001-05-05  6:23 ` Beginner's Language? Gerhard Häring
2001-05-05  9:06   ` David Starner
2001-05-05 11:05     ` chris.danx
2001-05-05 22:12       ` Nacho Robledo
2001-05-06 13:14     ` Florian Weimer
2001-05-06 19:15       ` David Starner
2001-05-06 15:17 ` DuckE
2001-05-06 20:58 ` Frank
2001-05-06 21:12 ` Kenneth Almquist
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2001-05-10  4:35 yamir
2001-05-31  0:41 robin
2001-05-31  4:15 ` Frank A. Adrian
2001-05-31 15:34   ` Wes Groleau
2001-05-31 19:22     ` David Thornley
2001-06-02 13:37   ` Johan Kullstam
2001-06-02 15:46     ` Frank A. Adrian
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