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From: "Warren W. Gay VE3WWG" <ve3wwg@home.com>
Subject: Do we need "Mission-Critical" software? Was: What to Do?
Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 17:53:27 GMT
Date: 2001-01-01T17:53:27+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <3A50C371.8B7B871@home.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 92qdnn$jfg$1@news.huji.ac.il

Ehud Lamm wrote:
> Marin David Condic <mcondic.nospam@acm.org> wrote in message
> news:3A50ABDF.3A8F6C0D@acm.org...
> > I'm not sure why you think most of the posters here are amateur
> programmers?
...SNIP...
> In fact, I think one problem Ada had (note past tense) was lack of amateurs.
> As opposed to such "cool" languages like C++ and Java (and in the old day
> Turbo Pascal), most hobbyist never hear of Ada, or hear misleading info (see
> Jargon File).
> I think these days things are changing a bit (I am judging mainly from this
> group,  AdaPower etc.)
> 
> I think that if we succeed in making the Ada community larger, by attracting
> hobbyists, the "real world" situation will improve too.
> (I still haven't found the time to write "Why should Hackers Love Ada?"
> If anyone wnats to write it, feel free...)
> 
> Ehud

First of all, I like the idea of the book. It should be written.

I think that people that truly love to write software, usually enjoy the
satisfaction of doing something well. I believe that Ada makes this possible,
since the compiler is able to eliminate so many mundane, and even stupid
errors that we do not want to expend our free time on. In this way, Ada
allows the computer to work for YOU, instead of the other way round.

The compiler also does this effortlessly at runtime as well (with the
appropriate checks enabled). Finally, the exceptions point to the source
of the problem immediately (in most cases, to the module and line #).

(Advocacy mode on..)

If you subscribe to the Linux, FreeBSD and Windows security advisory 
mailing lists, you will be made painfully aware of how insecure today's 
really software is. As a person with over 20 years of programming experience, 
it just seems to me, that this is not a good sign!  Our industry has not
learned any lessons here, and we continue to build.

This is serious, because we are now building upon several layers of
previously built software. Anyone that builds a tower knows that the
foundation needs to be firm and secure. Yet today, we continue to build
upon faulty foundations. (Consider MOTIF, on Intrinsics, on X11, on the
C libraries, on the kernel, --or-- the instabilities of your 
not-so-favourite Windows platform).

Ada95 it seems, provides a glimmer of hope. Many people claim that we
don't write "mission-critical" software for every day use.

    I beg to disagree!

As soon as you connect your computer to the Internet, you now are very
concerned about the security of your system and it's files (incidentally,
it is now possible for a virus to issue IDE commands to the newer IDE
disk drives that will cause them to destroy themselves: this means that
a hacker now has the ability to destroy some of your hardware as well).

If you don't consider your files, your privacy and your hardware worth
protecting, then I might agree that you don't need mission-critical
software. While people won't die if my site gets hacked, to ME, it is very
imporant that it does not get hacked-- to me, it is mission-critical.

(Although if someone hacks my site, destroys my diskdrive, people
and pets could die from smoke or a fire caused by a damaged disk drive).

I would like to see the Free Software Foundation start developing with Ada95.
The GNU Hurd has been slow to develop, but I would love to see a new
effort started in Ada95 instead, with associated tools written in the
same. The OS would have a "mission-critical" mission as it affects
security.  There was someone that has announced that they
are developing an Ada based kernel, and I wish them luck. However, it
is such an ambitious undertaking, that I wish for the day when the FSF
would take it up (or contribute).

I think if the FSF were to adopt Ada95 for more development, this would
help bring Ada credibility to those that have yet to give it a chance.

Richard Stallman, are you listening?

-- 
Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
http://members.home.net/ve3wwg



  reply	other threads:[~2001-01-01 17:53 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 184+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2000-12-31 16:09 What to Do? Petra Lynn Hofman
2000-12-31 16:58 ` Robert Dewar
2000-12-31 17:41   ` Ted Dennison
2001-01-01 15:24     ` Marin David Condic
2001-01-01 17:18       ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-02 15:05         ` Marin David Condic
2001-01-01 17:54       ` Ted Dennison
2001-01-02 15:14         ` Marin David Condic
2001-01-01 21:22       ` Lao Xiao Hai
2001-01-01 15:15   ` Marin David Condic
2000-12-31 18:06 ` E. Robert Tisdale
2000-12-31 21:07   ` tmoran
2001-01-01 16:10   ` Marin David Condic
2001-01-01 17:08     ` Ehud Lamm
2001-01-01 17:53       ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG [this message]
2001-01-01 18:29         ` Do we need "Mission-Critical" software? Was: " Ted Dennison
2001-01-01 20:25           ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-02 19:03             ` Ted Dennison
2001-01-02 20:22               ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-02 22:23               ` Florian Weimer
2001-01-02 22:27               ` Florian Weimer
2001-01-01 20:26           ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-02 19:05             ` Ted Dennison
2001-01-02 20:24               ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-02 22:53                 ` Ted Dennison
2001-01-03 18:39           ` Georg Bauhaus
2001-01-03 19:22             ` Ted Dennison
2001-01-04  1:18               ` Cesar Scarpini Rabak
2001-01-01 19:28         ` Ehud Lamm
2001-01-02 14:56         ` Cesar Scarpini Rabak
2001-01-03  3:32           ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-01-04  1:02             ` Cesar Scarpini Rabak
2001-01-04  3:53               ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-01-04 12:04               ` Marin David Condic
2001-01-04 13:48                 ` Marc A. Criley
2001-01-06 20:23                   ` Lao Xiao Hai
2001-01-04 17:09                 ` Ted Dennison
2001-01-04 20:30                   ` Kevin Rigotti
2001-01-05  9:15                     ` n_brunot
2001-01-05  9:57                       ` Tarjei T. Jensen
2001-01-05 10:41                         ` n_brunot
2001-01-05 13:41                       ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-05 14:15                         ` n_brunot
2001-01-06 17:17                           ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-08  8:51                             ` n_brunot
2001-01-09  4:00                               ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-09 10:20                                 ` n_brunot
2001-01-09 12:34                                   ` Karel Thoenissen
2001-01-09 14:18                                   ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-09 15:29                                     ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2001-01-09 19:25                                     ` tmoran
2001-01-09 20:11                                     ` Florian Weimer
2001-01-09 14:20                                   ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-10  2:08                                 ` Keith Thompson
     [not found]                               ` <93e2d1$spv$1@ <3A5B054B.3CF03325@hello.nl>
2001-01-09 22:05                                 ` Simon Wright
2001-01-05 15:35                         ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2001-01-05 19:20                           ` Object naming conventions (was: Do we need "Mission-Critical" software?) Kevin Rigotti
2001-01-06 17:30                             ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-06 17:24                           ` Do we need "Mission-Critical" software? Was: What to Do? Robert Dewar
2001-01-08  9:14                             ` n_brunot
2001-01-09  0:28                               ` Cesar Scarpini Rabak
2001-01-09  8:35                                 ` Florian Weimer
2001-01-10  2:21                                 ` mark_lundquist
2001-01-09  2:34                               ` DuckE
2001-01-09  4:12                               ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-09  9:12                                 ` n_brunot
2001-01-09 12:24                                   ` David Gillon
2001-01-09 12:58                                   ` Marc A. Criley
2001-01-09 13:42                                   ` Marin David Condic
2001-01-09 14:00                                     ` Marin David Condic
2001-01-12  0:21                                       ` Larry J. Elmore
2001-01-12  1:24                                         ` Al Christians
2001-01-12  5:19                                         ` Ken Garlington
2001-01-12 18:05                                         ` Marin David Condic
2001-01-09 14:27                                   ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-09 15:15                                     ` n_brunot
2001-01-09 19:41                                       ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-09 20:44                                         ` Florian Weimer
2001-01-10 12:22                                           ` Marin David Condic
2001-01-10 13:49                                             ` Ken Garlington
2001-01-10 20:41                                           ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-09 23:04                                         ` tmoran
2001-01-27 16:58                                           ` Alejandro R. Mosteo
2001-01-10 16:37                                         ` Jerry Petrey
2001-01-10 19:12                                           ` Georg Bauhaus
2001-01-11  1:43                                           ` Frank Manning
2001-01-09 16:12                                     ` n_brunot
2001-01-09 19:48                                       ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-09 20:43                                         ` Britt Snodgrass
2001-01-10 20:43                                           ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-11 13:41                                             ` JOVIAL (was Do we need "Mission-Critical" software?) Ken Garlington
2001-01-12 15:32                                               ` carr_tom
2001-01-12 16:58                                                 ` Ira D. Baxter
2001-01-22 23:18                                                 ` jls
2001-01-13 14:20                                               ` Ken Garlington
2001-01-10 10:41                                         ` Do we need "Mission-Critical" software? Was: What to Do? David Kristola
2001-01-10 13:44                                           ` Ken Garlington
2001-01-10 21:39                                           ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-10 11:47                                         ` n_brunot
2001-01-10 12:25                                           ` Marin David Condic
2001-01-10 21:36                                           ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-11 10:00                                             ` n_brunot
2001-01-12  0:42                                               ` Larry J. Elmore
2001-01-12  1:47                                                 ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-12 16:05                                               ` Georg Bauhaus
2001-01-16 19:52                                               ` Do we need any Dewar-bashing? Wes Groleau
2001-01-09 19:03                                     ` Do we need "Mission-Critical" software? Was: What to Do? dmitry6243
2001-01-09 19:51                                       ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-09 20:46                                         ` Florian Weimer
2001-01-09 21:57                                         ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-01-10  8:55                                         ` dmitry6243
2001-01-10 13:39                                           ` Pascal Obry
2001-01-11  8:58                                             ` dmitry6243
2001-01-11 21:01                                       ` mark_lundquist
2001-01-12 11:41                                         ` dmitry6243
2001-01-12 20:29                                           ` Subprogram types vs. "limited access" (was " mark_lundquist
2001-01-12 21:58                                             ` Randy Brukardt
2001-01-13  1:35                                               ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-13  1:20                                             ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-13 17:29                                             ` dmitry6243
2001-01-15 21:06                                               ` mark_lundquist
2001-01-16  0:32                                                 ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-16  2:57                                                   ` mark_lundquist
2001-01-16  5:47                                                     ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-16 17:47                                                       ` mark_lundquist
2001-01-16  9:12                                                 ` dmitry6243
2001-01-16 20:04                                         ` Wes Groleau
2001-02-02  6:45                                           ` Java packages (was " mark_lundquist
2001-01-15 20:04                                   ` Lao Xiao Hai
2001-01-15 20:28                                     ` Jerry Petrey
2001-01-15 21:05                                       ` tmoran
2001-01-16  0:36                                         ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-16 13:23                                           ` Marin David Condic
2001-01-15 21:44                                     ` Tucker Taft
2001-01-15 22:26                                       ` BSCrawford
2001-01-23  2:19                                       ` Lao Xiao Hai
     [not found]                                         ` <94kkme$amg$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
2001-01-26 20:43                                           ` Lao Xiao Hai
2001-01-27  9:36                                             ` David Kristola
2001-01-27 21:54                                             ` Ken Garlington
2001-01-27 23:09                                               ` Pat Rogers
2001-01-28 22:30                                                 ` Ken Garlington
2001-01-09 13:37                                 ` Marin David Condic
2001-01-12  1:11                                   ` Larry J. Elmore
2001-01-09 14:52                               ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-01-10 10:26                                 ` Florian Weimer
2001-01-10 21:43                                   ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-11 18:51                               ` mark_lundquist
2001-01-11 20:11                     ` mark_lundquist
2001-01-12 11:49                       ` Kevin Rigotti
2001-01-12 19:19                         ` mark_lundquist
2001-01-16 20:20                           ` Wes Groleau
2001-01-04 16:48               ` Ted Dennison
2001-01-05 13:15                 ` Cesar Scarpini Rabak
2001-01-06 20:19               ` Lao Xiao Hai
2001-01-01 21:37       ` Lao Xiao Hai
2001-01-01 21:44         ` Ehud Lamm
2001-01-03  4:00         ` William Starner
2001-01-01 23:44       ` David Kristola
2001-01-02  0:41         ` Brian Rogoff
2001-01-02  3:14           ` tmoran
2001-01-02 20:35             ` David Kristola
2001-01-02 22:56               ` Ted Dennison
2001-01-02  7:38           ` Ehud Lamm
2001-01-02 15:08           ` Ted Dennison
2001-01-02 20:59           ` What to Do? Silly Valley JF Harrison
2001-01-02 23:22             ` William Dale
2001-01-06 20:45               ` Lao Xiao Hai
2001-01-08 18:15                 ` William Dale
2001-01-08 19:00                   ` Florian Weimer
2001-01-08 19:01                   ` Florian Weimer
2000-12-31 21:47 ` What to Do? Robert Love
2001-01-01 21:31   ` Robert Love
2001-01-10 22:06 ` km0762
2001-01-10 22:06 ` km0762
2001-01-11  0:00   ` James Rogers
2001-01-11  1:03     ` Al Christians
2001-01-29 16:09       ` spider_templar2
2001-01-11 13:57     ` John English
2001-01-11 18:00       ` William Dale
2001-01-12  0:27         ` John English
2001-01-12  2:57           ` David Botton
2001-01-13  3:34             ` Petra Lynn Hofman
2001-01-13  6:05               ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-13 13:52               ` Ken Garlington
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