Re: Ada student homework ?

[Marin David Condic <mcondic.nospam@acm.org>]

Randy Brukardt wrote:

> Well, that's the point of Claw: to allow people to develop for Windows
> without needing to know C. (And, I'd expect that various other people
> working on GUI tools would say the same.)
>

From what I've seen of CLAW, it is a very good tool for PC development. As
soon as I can find an appropriate project in which to apply it, I intend to
do so. Mostly the problems have to do with existing software, business
decisions, etc., that make it difficult to split from the MSVC++ environment
currently used.

There's also the issue of it being easier for me to sell Ada internally if I
can argue that the same stuff will run on Unix and on the PC. For an app
with little to no GUI interface (CLI oriented or just a background job) this
is easy to do. However, a lot of the tool opportunities we get are going to
need a GUI.

Like I said, what I know of CLAW indicates it will do well for PC
development, but you've got to consider other platforms. Of course, MSVC++
leaves you quite thoroughly bound to the PC anyway, so in this sense, you're
no worse off. But you're still working against history and as new features
are added to the OS, you'd be lagging behind with tools that come from
places other than Micro$oft. (Unless you do your own bindings - and then
you've got to know C++! :-)

>
> I would say that we've failed if C knowledge is still necessary.
>

Not necessarily. For most basic things, you certainly wouldn't have to know
C. However, if you ever want to read the Micro$oft documentation or
otherwise work to understand what is available in the OS, you've got to have
some C knowledge just because that is where it all comes from.

Now if there was an OS written in Ada and documented accordingly, you'd have
everything native for you. Hmmmmmm....... :-)

>
> (Before someone complains, I would probably agree in some ways that we
> have failed. One of the original pillars for Claw was a Petzold-like
> book with all of the examples in Ada 95 using Claw. But we never found
> anyone capable enough in Ada 95, Windows, and writing to create it. [Two
> out of three isn't enough.] And, if you have to extend beyond the
> boundaries of Claw, you'll end up needing to know C. But certainly such
> knowledge is not necessary for many applications.)
>

Yes, a really good book would be a major advantage. Something that drilled
you through the basic "Hello World" on through using all the complex
features available in Windows. That's one of the reasons it is hard to fight
against C++ here. I can buy MSVC++ and have a CD full of documentation &
examples, all hypertexted out. I can go to Barnes & Noble and buy a bunch of
"Intro to programming Windows" and "Advanced programming with Windows" books
and be able to get up to speed doing the job. CLAW - as good as it may be -
just doesn't have that wealth of educational material available :-(

I recall a few years ago picking up the Aonix compiler and trying to fool
around with the GUI builder, etc. I was very new to the Windows programming
scene. Unfortunately, the experience was very rough. What documentation was
available kept referring to MS documents for the explanation of various
features and, unfortunately, that wasn't available to me at the time. I also
didn't understand things like resource files, the window mechanisms, the
message loop, etc., and all this was presumed knowledge. My ignorance is
certainly not the fault of Aonix, but it would have made it easier to use
their product if it came with good tutorials, books and documentation.
Material was there - it just didn't go far enough.

Maybe it would be productive to find a good book oriented towards
programming with MSVC++ and using that as a model for writing a book on
programming with CLAW? At least that way, you'd have a successful outline to
start from and you'd just have to translate the topics into CLAW/Ada
examples?

MDC
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Marin David Condic - Quadrus Corporation - http://www.quadruscorp.com/
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