Re: gtkada/glade info needed

[Marin David Condic <mcondic.nospam@acm.org>]

Ted Dennison wrote:

> Clearly you didn't try it from the command line. By default it doesn't add the
> environment variables you need compile from the command line. It takes a serious
> documentation spelunking adventure to find out how to get them added.

You can run it from the command line??? :-) Kids these days with their GUI interfaces
and fancy-pants install shields and all that. Why when I was a kid, we didn't even have
a command line. All we had were punch cards and paper tape. And we were damned glad whe
had 'em too! :-)

O.K. Like I said - MSVC++ isn't perfect. My experience was very painless. Of course one
of the other guys was here to lean over my shoulder and explain stuff to me, so that
always helps, but I still had very little trouble just getting it to start up and work.
(In-depth usage is a whole other story!) I've had similar experiences with lots of
other software I've installed (and written!) for Windows. Then there are apps that are
difficult to install and get working and they get annoying. Early versions of Gnat for
Windows had you fooling with the registry and other mucking about that I thought was
painful. Of course, now it comes with an install shield and pretty much seems to run
nicely out of the box. Very easy and painless - the ACT guys should be proud of that.

>
> So you must have done it from the GUI. I *still* haven't figured out how to do that
> (but I suppose I haven't tried very hard either).

I guess I really don't want to linger too much on the "painless install" part since
that is only one part of the problem. What I think are its more important advantages
are things like how everything hangs together and you get adequate documentation with
the installation that - even if it may be big and cumbersome - provides a source from
which to find answers. We're all fond of saying "Hey pal! RTFM!!!!" but you can't
"RTFM" if there is no "FM"! :-)

If you use the tool much, there are certain things to like about it. I like how (after
waiting several minutes for it to load everything!) you get a "Class View" of your
project. You see all the classes you have in a tree form and can open them to see the
methods and member variables that go with them. Double click on it and you're right
there in the source. You make changes to the Class View and it shows up in your source.
You make changes to the source and there it is in the Class View. It has an amazingly
nice debugger - which for C++ you need a heck of a lot more than in other languages!
Simple to run your program in debug mode, set breakpoints, etc. Want to see what's in a
variable? Hang the cursor over it in the source you are editing. You can make changes
to the source *while you are running* and automagically its just there. The GUI builder
is accessible from the Resource View and I like how it shows you just the pieces you
need for a given feature and how it builds code for you to hang the features together.
(O.K. its crappy code and you really need to understand the Windows model if you hope
to succeed - but a lot of that is inescapable. They made a a valiant effort to try to
polish up the Windows model, but no matter how much time you spend polishing it, you
are still just polishing a turd. :-)

Now AdaGide and Gnat with GDB built in comes a long way in the right direction. I've
not used GDB much - partly because with Ada I have a *lot* less need for a debugger and
partly because there's no help file for it from the menu. (If it ain't right there, you
tend not to think about it.) The debugger seems to have its own view of the source so
you're not working from the same source view as what you are editing. It would be nice
to point AdaGide at a directory and have it show you all the files in a tree-like
structure where you could, for example, click on a package and see a summary of the
elements within it - click on them and go to the source. And of course there's no GUI
builder integrated with it that you might use to generate code and resources and just
kind of have it all show up right there. (The GUI builder would have to sort of propose
a model for building an app so you knew exactly where to go to hang your app code from
the GUI code. And naturally, once you modify the GUI code, regeneration shouldn't mess
it up.) Also, until you actually get the code to compile, there isn't a lot of help in
navigating around the various source files. Unfortunately, the time you often need that
kind of navigation the most is when you're struggling to find all the problems that are
keeping it from compiling.

Don't get me wrong - I think AdaGide with GDB and Gnat are a very nice toolset in many
respects and they have come a long way. Its just not as seamless and complete as what
you'll find with other Windows development kits. One day, it may get there and I
certainly hope that happens. In the mean time, I guess I'll just continue to be a nudzh
to those who develop toolkits. :-)

MDC
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Marin David Condic - Quadrus Corporation - http://www.quadruscorp.com/
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