* gtkada/glade info needed @ 2000-09-30 0:00 Marin David Condic 2000-09-30 0:00 ` Ted Dennison ` (3 more replies) 0 siblings, 4 replies; 26+ messages in thread From: Marin David Condic @ 2000-09-30 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Does anybody know where there might exist some documentation about using Glade to build GUIs for use with GtkAda? I'm looking for a sort of tutorial that walks you through all the steps of constructing some sort of reasonably simple app that shows how to use the various features to create a nice looking window. Despite claims to the contrary, the tool is *not* intuitively obvious to even the most casual observer. Also, I'm having trouble with getting Glade to generate source code because of apparent problems with something called Gate wanting to create various directories and getting permission denied. Could be the scripts weren't designed to deal with Win2k, but a quick look at the directory properties indicates there aren't any obvious privilege violations. (Its trying to build directories/files under c:\GtkAda-1.3.8\bin. Why is unclear.) And how exactly does one go about getting OpenGL and installing it such that one can compile/link the testgtk application? Why it isn't there I do not know, but the link fails for lack of a bunch of routines that appear to have something to do with OpenGL. Is it time to once again observe that one reason more people don't develop Windows apps in Ada is because there isn't a complete, well-integrated, well-documented set of tools with which to work? C++ may be a poor excuse for a programming language, but MSVC++ installs from a single disk, configures everything it needs to and runs properly right out of the box. No net surfing for all the bits and pieces. No setting paths, environment variables, system configurations, etc. No fussing to get the compiler, editor, GUI builder, debugger, etc., to work together. No need to scour around to collect up manuals from a dozen different sources in order to understand how to use all the bits and pieces. You just fire it up and go. Newbies aren't frustrated with failing tools and serious developers aren't wasting their time pulling together all the pieces. Ada would do well to learn from that example. I like the notion of being able to develop a GUI based app in Ada using a tool that will let me take the code between Windows and Unix unchanged. GtkAda may do that. It may gain more popularity if it works a bit more seamlessly. MDC -- ====================================================================== Marin David Condic - Quadrus Corporation - http://www.quadruscorp.com/ Send Replies To: m c o n d i c @ q u a d r u s c o r p . c o m Visit my web site at: http://www.mcondic.com/ "Giving money and power to Government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys." -- P. J. O'Rourke ====================================================================== ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: gtkada/glade info needed 2000-09-30 0:00 gtkada/glade info needed Marin David Condic @ 2000-09-30 0:00 ` Ted Dennison 2000-09-30 0:00 ` Marin David Condic 2000-10-01 0:00 ` Preben Randhol ` (2 subsequent siblings) 3 siblings, 1 reply; 26+ messages in thread From: Ted Dennison @ 2000-09-30 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Marin David Condic wrote: > Does anybody know where there might exist some documentation about using > Glade to build GUIs for use with GtkAda? I'm looking for a sort of > tutorial that walks you through all the steps of constructing some sort > of reasonably simple app that shows how to use the various features to > create a nice looking window. Despite claims to the contrary, the tool > is *not* intuitively obvious to even the most casual observer. I used it at work to build a little app for showing our application's varaible values using vxWorks' WTX (debugger) protocol. It was very slow going at first. It struck me that Glade would be very tough to figure out for anyone who isn't fairly familar with how Gtk or Motif GUI building works. The main trip up would probably be in figuring out what widgets you have to use as your base (window). Only certian ones are allowed. You can't just create a GUI with one pushbutton. It also has some rather annoying crash bugs on Windows (NT at least). But since Windows isn't its primary port, this is probably to be expected. > Also, I'm having trouble with getting Glade to generate source code > because of apparent problems with something called Gate wanting to > create various directories and getting permission denied. Could be the > scripts weren't designed to deal with Win2k, but a quick look at the I had problems with that too. For one thing, I think there was a file that has to be deleted before you save (after the first time). I kind of liked this, as it prevented me from accidentally wiping out my old GUI before I was ready. But I did have to write a script to backup my GUI package bodies and delete that file. Then another script I wrote restored my GUI package bodies after gate was run. I'm working from memory here, so I can't be much more specific for certain. If no one else responds before I go back in on Monday, I'll take a better look at what I did. > Is it time to once again observe that one reason more people don't > develop Windows apps in Ada is because there isn't a complete, > well-integrated, well-documented set of tools with which to work? C++ Actually, I believe ObjectAda does more or less what you are asking for, it just isn't free. :-) As for doing something free, C++ doesn't really have such a system (on Windows) either. What would such a set of tools include? Should the GUI be Windows with ActiveX support and all that jazz, or should it be TK, or should it be Java, or should it be Gtk+? How about 3D libraries? There are 3 popular ones on Windows right now, OpenGL, Direct3D, and GLIDE (do we have enough GL*DE acronyms yet?). Even Sockets support is in a similar situation. Any choice you make is not going to satisfy everyone. > may be a poor excuse for a programming language, but MSVC++ installs > from a single disk, configures everything it needs to and runs properly > right out of the box. No net surfing for all the bits and pieces. No > setting paths, environment variables, system configurations, etc. No > fussing to get the compiler, editor, GUI builder, debugger, etc., to > work together. No need to scour around to collect up manuals from a > That's because they give you no choices! Your GUI will be Windows (with ActiveX support and DirectX). Your 3D will be Direct3D. Your sockets will be WinSock. > I like the notion of being able to develop a GUI based app in Ada using > a tool that will let me take the code between Windows and Unix > unchanged. GtkAda may do that. It may gain more popularity if it works a > bit more seamlessly. I'd agree here, particularly with the first sentence. I don't even think "like" is strong enough. Perhaps GtkAda does need a bit more polish. Certianly GLADE on Windows needs a bit more polish. But what they have done so far in such a short time is very impressive. -- T.E.D. Home - mailto:dennison@telepath.com Work - mailto:dennison@ssd.fsi.com WWW - http://www.telepath.com/dennison/Ted/TED.html ICQ - 10545591 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: gtkada/glade info needed 2000-09-30 0:00 ` Ted Dennison @ 2000-09-30 0:00 ` Marin David Condic 0 siblings, 0 replies; 26+ messages in thread From: Marin David Condic @ 2000-09-30 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Ted Dennison wrote: > I used it at work to build a little app for showing our application's > varaible values using vxWorks' WTX (debugger) protocol. It was very slow > going at first. It struck me that Glade would be very tough to figure out > for anyone who isn't fairly familar with how Gtk or Motif GUI building > works. The main trip up would probably be in figuring out what widgets you > have to use as your base (window). Only certian ones are allowed. You can't > just create a GUI with one pushbutton. > Well after a bunch of bashing around, I kind of figured out how to get a few simple things into a window so I could try to make some code. It still looked like fewmets. I couldn't quite figure out how to make buttons that were the same size or get good control of where things appeared. I understand that this allows for automatic resizing, but there must be some tricks for how to make a window that doesn't simply have everything scattered over God's Green Acres. This is where some version of a "How To" manual would come in really handy. > > It also has some rather annoying crash bugs on Windows (NT at least). But > since Windows isn't its primary port, this is probably to be expected. > Didn't succeed in killing Glade under Win2k. Of course I didn't try everything yet. :-) What I *did* kill was the code generation. > I had problems with that too. For one thing, I think there was a file that > has to be deleted before you save (after the first time). I kind of liked > this, as it prevented me from accidentally wiping out my old GUI before I > was ready. But I did have to write a script to backup my GUI package bodies > and delete that file. Then another script I wrote restored my GUI package > bodies after gate was run. I'm working from memory here, so I can't be much > more specific for certain. If no one else responds before I go back in on > Monday, I'll take a better look at what I did. > When looking at the CLI window, I was able to see errors that had to do with trying to create directories that didn't exist. I could probably post the *specific* error messages, but I just didn't save them the last time around. > Actually, I believe ObjectAda does more or less what you are asking for, it > just isn't free. :-) > I had ObjectAda a few years ago. It was O.K., but I thought there was a bit of a derth of documentation. Too much was assumed about what you knew of Windows programming. Sort of like saying: "Well, first go out and buy MSVC++ and learn how to use that. Then you'll understand how to use this." Of course it has probably improved in the last couple of years and perhaps its time to take another look at it. I don't mind paying as long as I think I can get what I need and the $$$ stay expressible in three digits. :-) Naturally, this does limit you to Windows programming (as does VC++) and I rather thought I'd be able to sell the concept of doing the next project in Ada if I could show the capacity to port easily to more than just Windows. > > As for doing something free, C++ doesn't really have such a system (on > Windows) either. What would such a set of tools include? Should the GUI be > Windows with ActiveX support and all that jazz, or should it be TK, or > should it be Java, or should it be Gtk+? How about 3D libraries? There are 3 > popular ones on Windows right now, OpenGL, Direct3D, and GLIDE (do we have > enough GL*DE acronyms yet?). Even Sockets support is in a similar situation. > Any choice you make is not going to satisfy everyone. > Please don't mistake me for a C++ advocate. Its just that after working with MSVC++ I can see that the *toolkit* is done rather well and I had not seen such a complete and well integrated toolkit for Ada. Its the same sort of thing you get when looking at kits for doing embedded work on small computers. Lots and lots of well integrated development tools that use a C compiler and not much to say for Ada. As for trying to please everyone, I understand you can't do that. But its almost as if just picking some set of tools and pulling them together nicely, might be enough to create a de facto standard. Pick a set of GUI tools you can expand on and can make work on a variety of platforms. Pick a debugger. Pick whatever you like. Put it in a bundle that is easy to install, works together smoothly, doesn't crash and is well documented and I think you'd have something there. > That's because they give you no choices! Your GUI will be Windows (with > ActiveX support and DirectX). Your 3D will be Direct3D. Your sockets will be > WinSock. > Freedom of choice is what I've got. Freedom *from* choice is what I want. :-) You can push choice too far sometimes. For example, assembler on a bare machine lets you do *anything* that is possible to do with that machine. Your choices are limitless. The instant you throw an OS on the machine, you have, by definition, limited your choices. With Windows, ActiveX, DirectX and whatever, I can pretty much build an app that will work "Good Enough". And as we know "Good Enough" is not nearly so wonderful a thing as "Perfect". But its "Good Enough!" :-) I'd still like to get portability out of the deal since that is one of Ada's strong suits. With the right tools in place, it would be a *very* good selling point to show developers how they could build it on Windows and run it on Unix (or OS/2 or VMS or Lord knows what else!) Its a big project potentially, but I think its one that would make Ada a force to be contended with. > > I'd agree here, particularly with the first sentence. I don't even think > "like" is strong enough. Perhaps GtkAda does need a bit more polish. > Certianly GLADE on Windows needs a bit more polish. But what they have done > so far in such a short time is very impressive. Oh, I may complain, but I do have to respect the effort that has gone into it. From what I have seen, it has a lot of potential and could easily expand into something extremely powerful. I guess what frustrates me is that I am hoping to push for the next big project to go with Ada, GtkAda, etc., on the grounds of portability. But for me to do that, I've got to have enough confidence in the toolset to believe we can get the job done and that getting the rest of the crew up to speed using it isn't going to be an impossible burden. With a limited amount of documentation and uncertainties about quality, its hard to make the case. I was building a toy application here with the hope that I could take it around and say "See? It runs on Windows and looks pretty good, eh? What do you say we glom onto a Sun and see if it works just as well there?" I'm just not there yet. :-( MDC -- ====================================================================== Marin David Condic - Quadrus Corporation - http://www.quadruscorp.com/ Send Replies To: m c o n d i c @ q u a d r u s c o r p . c o m Visit my web site at: http://www.mcondic.com/ "Giving money and power to Government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys." -- P. J. O'Rourke ====================================================================== ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: gtkada/glade info needed 2000-09-30 0:00 gtkada/glade info needed Marin David Condic 2000-09-30 0:00 ` Ted Dennison @ 2000-10-01 0:00 ` Preben Randhol 2000-10-01 0:00 ` Marin David Condic 2000-10-01 3:07 ` Robert Dewar 2000-10-01 3:36 ` DuckE 3 siblings, 1 reply; 26+ messages in thread From: Preben Randhol @ 2000-10-01 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) On Sat, 30 Sep 2000 17:43:49 -0400, Marin David Condic wrote: >Does anybody know where there might exist some documentation about using >Glade to build GUIs for use with GtkAda? I'm looking for a sort of >tutorial that walks you through all the steps of constructing some sort >of reasonably simple app that shows how to use the various features to >create a nice looking window. Despite claims to the contrary, the tool >is *not* intuitively obvious to even the most casual observer. First principle is that when you make GUI with GtkAda (GTK+) you should not do it the way Delphi projects do. That is put buttons etc in fixed positions. GTK+ uses horisontal and vertical boxes to pack buttons etc... so that when you scale your application the layout looks good. I recommend that you look at these links, even though the examples are in C it is easy to translate into Ada 95 using GtkAda: GTK+ / Gnome Application Development by Havoc Pennington : on packing widgets: http://developer.gnome.org/doc/GGAD/cha-gtk.html the whole book can be found here: http://developer.gnome.org/doc/GGAD/ GTK+ Tutorial by Tony Gale, Ian Main on packing widgets: http://www.gtk.org/tutorial/gtk_tut-4.html the whole tutorial http://www.gtk.org/tutorial/ And of course the GtkAda documentation. http://gtkada.eu.org/gtkada_ug.html http://gtkada.eu.org/gtkada_rm_toc.html >Is it time to once again observe that one reason more people don't >develop Windows apps in Ada is because there isn't a complete, >well-integrated, well-documented set of tools with which to work? C++ I dunno, I use Linux as I find that Windows suck. >may be a poor excuse for a programming language, but MSVC++ installs >from a single disk, configures everything it needs to and runs properly >right out of the box. No net surfing for all the bits and pieces. No And how many $ do you have to pay up for the public version of GNAT + GtkAda + Glade compared to MSVC++? :-) >I like the notion of being able to develop a GUI based app in Ada using >a tool that will let me take the code between Windows and Unix >unchanged. GtkAda may do that. It may gain more popularity if it works a >bit more seamlessly. The Linux version works nicely at least and I'm very impressed with the work put in by the GtkAda developers. -- Preben Randhol - randhol@pvv.org - http://www.pvv.org/~randhol/ ._. Debian 2.2 |"Don't think about domination, think about freedom, / _,\ Potato | it doesn't dominate." - Richard M. Stallman | (_./ GNU/Linux | To learn more visit => http://www.debian.org/ \, ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: gtkada/glade info needed 2000-10-01 0:00 ` Preben Randhol @ 2000-10-01 0:00 ` Marin David Condic 2000-10-01 0:00 ` Preben Randhol 2000-10-02 3:45 ` Robert Dewar 0 siblings, 2 replies; 26+ messages in thread From: Marin David Condic @ 2000-10-01 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Preben Randhol wrote: > First principle is that when you make GUI with GtkAda (GTK+) you should > not do it the way Delphi projects do. That is put buttons etc in fixed > positions. GTK+ uses horisontal and vertical boxes to pack buttons > etc... so that when you scale your application the layout looks good. > Kind of figured out that part for myself - eventually. I can learn to work with whatever model they want to propose, but I'm just not a mindreader. I'm hoping to find some info on how to drive the Glade thingie around, how to setp-by-step get the various things into the window & make them look good, etc. As I said previously, I managed to get some buttons and text boxes and stuff like that onto the window, but it looks like defication. And I'm sure I've violated every single intention of the designers in how to build a GUI. But nobody wrote down: "Here's how you go about it: First you lay down a window, then you pop one of these thingies on it, then you edit such-and-such and..." One walk-through example that showed you how to put basic features onto the screen in the order they belong (the layer thing is confusing to me because its different than the usual Windows GUI-builder idea of simply positioning elements on a pasteboard.) would go a long way to making the tool easier to use. Something just a bit bigger than "Hello World" but not by much. Demonstration of buttons, menus, text strings, text blocks, popups and dialogs ought to about do it. But it needs to suggest *how* to get the things onto the screen in an attractive form as well as simply the mechanics of getting the things on the screen. > > I recommend that you look at these links, even though the examples are > in C it is easy to translate into Ada 95 using GtkAda: > Thanks for the links. I'll look them over. However, my problem isn't so much GTK as it is the GUI builder and getting the code generation to work. > > I dunno, I use Linux as I find that Windows suck. > If you're looking for an argument about the relative suckage of Windows, you're talking to the wrong guy. But of course, a fundamental point of philosophy would be that just because Windows = Sucks, does not imply that (not Windows) = Cool. IMHO, any form of Unix also sucks, but for a lot longer. > And how many $ do you have to pay up for the public version of GNAT + > GtkAda + Glade compared to MSVC++? :-) > Hey, I understand the price is right. That certainly is an attraction. But if you go to a restaurant and the waitress comes by and says "They burnt your french fries so they gave you more of them and there's no charge" do you still eat the fries? I like freebies, but if it doesn't work, it doesn't do me much good. It also discourages usage of Ada in general if a newbie is confronted with too many problems getting tools to work. > The Linux version works nicely at least and I'm very impressed with the > work put in by the GtkAda developers. I'll agree that they put a lot of work into it and they have some very nice things there. Maybe its just not stabilized enough on the Windows side. MDC -- ====================================================================== Marin David Condic - Quadrus Corporation - http://www.quadruscorp.com/ Send Replies To: m c o n d i c @ q u a d r u s c o r p . c o m Visit my web site at: http://www.mcondic.com/ "Giving money and power to Government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys." -- P. J. O'Rourke ====================================================================== ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: gtkada/glade info needed 2000-10-01 0:00 ` Marin David Condic @ 2000-10-01 0:00 ` Preben Randhol 2000-10-02 3:45 ` Robert Dewar 1 sibling, 0 replies; 26+ messages in thread From: Preben Randhol @ 2000-10-01 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) On Sun, 01 Oct 2000 12:06:27 -0400, Marin David Condic wrote: >Thanks for the links. I'll look them over. However, my problem isn't so much >GTK as it is the GUI builder and getting the code generation to work. Well read the links and I think you'll understand things more clearly. Once you understand GTK+, Glade is easy to use. >But of course, a fundamental point of philosophy would be that just >because Windows = Sucks, does not imply that (not Windows) = Cool. No and I haven't said that either. Linux is good on it's own meirts. >Hey, I understand the price is right. That certainly is an attraction. >But if you go to a restaurant and the waitress comes by and says "They >burnt your french fries so they gave you more of them and there's no >charge" do you still eat the fries? I like freebies, but if it doesn't >work, it doesn't do me much good. It also discourages usage of Ada in >general if a newbie is confronted with too many problems getting tools >to work. If you want to make the food yourself expect having to do the dishes afterwards, if you go to a resturant expect to pay for not having to. :-) >I'll agree that they put a lot of work into it and they have some very >nice things there. Maybe its just not stabilized enough on the Windows >side. Well as GTK+ isn't a Windows project you should perhaps look on the Unix side? :-) -- Preben Randhol - Ph.D Student - http://www.pvv.org/~randhol/ ._. Debian 2.2 |"Don't think about domination, think about freedom, / _,\ Potato | it doesn't dominate." - Richard M. Stallman | (_./ GNU/Linux | To learn more visit => http://www.debian.org/ \, ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: gtkada/glade info needed 2000-10-01 0:00 ` Marin David Condic 2000-10-01 0:00 ` Preben Randhol @ 2000-10-02 3:45 ` Robert Dewar 2000-10-02 0:00 ` Gautier 1 sibling, 1 reply; 26+ messages in thread From: Robert Dewar @ 2000-10-02 3:45 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <39D76103.1D3E5503@acm.org>, Marin David Condic <mcondic.nospam@acm.org> wrote: > Kind of figured out that part for myself - eventually. I can > learn to work with whatever model they want to propose, but > I'm just not a mindreader. We have in general found that people can make good progress using this technology if they work through things in the logical order, and read the documentation carefully. You need of course to completely familiarize yourself with Gtk+ first, that's the first step, then follow through the GtkAda examples. Also, one thing you *certainly* should have got from the documentation is the proper mailing list on which to discuss these issues, namely gtkada@gtkada.eu.org. I would suggest that if you post polite informed technical questions there, you may well get help (rants and raves comparing the technology to burnt french fries may be less successful). If indeed you perceive that some more elementary tutorial information would be useful beyond what is there in the documentation now, a constructive thing would be to try to supply this missing documentation. It's nice to contribute as well as to receive when it comes to projects like this :-) Of course making full use of a technology like this is not a simple matter, and we have found for example that customers attending our one day training class on GtkAda find it very useful. We also find that this is definitely an area in which it is useful to have support from knowledgable folks. Nevertheless, if you take the effort to work through the documentation, and use the right mailing list to ask questions, you should definitely be able to make more progress :-) Robert Dewar Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: gtkada/glade info needed 2000-10-02 3:45 ` Robert Dewar @ 2000-10-02 0:00 ` Gautier 2000-10-02 0:00 ` Preben Randhol 2000-10-02 0:00 ` Marin David Condic 0 siblings, 2 replies; 26+ messages in thread From: Gautier @ 2000-10-02 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Robert Dewar: > We have in general found that people can make good progress > using this technology if they work through things in the logical > order, and read the documentation carefully. You need of course > to completely familiarize yourself with Gtk+ first, that's the > first step, then follow through the GtkAda examples. Maybe for a GUI building software the approach is not the same as for a compiler itself. The logical steps may seem more logical for the people who develop (and already know) it and, if you have to read a long documentation just to make the whole work together and finally realize that a basic aspect of the software is not stable or finished enough for your needs - just a theoretical hypothesis, not related to Gtk or any other - it could be a bit frustrating. Imagine also you want to convince a company to use Ada and that *their* people will succeed to use a GUI building software, it could be hard to do without a perfectly working "out of the CD" demo version. Simply - IHMO - because a non user-friendly, software meant to build user-friendly software can appear suspicious... Maybe the current version of ObjectAda has a convenient solution ? ______________________________________________________ Gautier -- http://members.nbci.com/gdemont/gsoft.htm ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: gtkada/glade info needed 2000-10-02 0:00 ` Gautier @ 2000-10-02 0:00 ` Preben Randhol 2000-10-02 0:00 ` Ted Dennison 2000-10-02 0:00 ` Marin David Condic 1 sibling, 1 reply; 26+ messages in thread From: Preben Randhol @ 2000-10-02 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) On Mon, 02 Oct 2000 13:22:18 +0200, Gautier wrote: >Maybe for a GUI building software the approach is not the same >as for a compiler itself. The logical steps may seem more >logical for the people who develop (and already know) it and, >if you have to read a long documentation just to make the whole work >together and finally realize that a basic aspect of the software is >not stable or finished enough for your needs - just a theoretical >hypothesis, not related to Gtk or any other - it could be a bit >frustrating. Sound like one has to have Glade to develop a GUI. One do not. Glade is not produced by ACT and has the version number 0.5.10 (latest) meaning it hasn't reached 1.0 yet. But there is no problem coding without using Glade. I do this. That is I use Glade to design the layout and then I take the code it generates and cut & paste it into where I want it in my source code. I can of course understand that one wants to use the GUI builder. But one way or the other you need to know GtkAda and some at least of GTK+ to be able to use it to its fullest. -- Preben Randhol - Ph.D Student - http://www.pvv.org/~randhol/ ._. Debian 2.2 |"Don't think about domination, think about freedom, / _,\ Potato | it doesn't dominate." - Richard M. Stallman | (_./ GNU/Linux | To learn more visit => http://www.debian.org/ \, ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: gtkada/glade info needed 2000-10-02 0:00 ` Preben Randhol @ 2000-10-02 0:00 ` Ted Dennison 0 siblings, 0 replies; 26+ messages in thread From: Ted Dennison @ 2000-10-02 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <slrn8thb66.17p.randhol+abuse@kiuk0156.chembio.ntnu.no>, randhol+abuse@pvv.org (Preben Randhol) wrote: > On Mon, 02 Oct 2000 13:22:18 +0200, Gautier wrote: > Glade is not produced by ACT and has the version number 0.5.10 > (latest) meaning it hasn't reached 1.0 yet. A good point. > cut & paste it into where I want it in my source code. I can of course > understand that one wants to use the GUI builder. But one way or the > other you need to know GtkAda and some at least of GTK+ to be able to > use it to its fullest. Not using a GUI builder for a toy or hobby project might be an option. But for a serious non-trivial GUI you should nearly always use a builder. Its like the difference between using assembler and a high level language. That being said, I should mention that I didn't find Glade significanly worse than the various Motif-based GUI builders I'm used to. With those you also need to at least know some basics about Motif widgets and how they can be put together. But I don't know how it compares to the Windows-based GUI builders, which I think was the comparison being drawn. I haven't used any of them. Perhaps they are far easier. Of course this entire discussion is really a Glade issue, not an Ada one. -- T.E.D. http://www.telepath.com/~dennison/Ted/TED.html Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: gtkada/glade info needed 2000-10-02 0:00 ` Gautier 2000-10-02 0:00 ` Preben Randhol @ 2000-10-02 0:00 ` Marin David Condic 2000-10-02 0:00 ` Preben Randhol 1 sibling, 1 reply; 26+ messages in thread From: Marin David Condic @ 2000-10-02 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Gautier wrote: > Maybe for a GUI building software the approach is not the same > as for a compiler itself. The logical steps may seem more > logical for the people who develop (and already know) it and, > if you have to read a long documentation just to make the whole work > together and finally realize that a basic aspect of the software is > not stable or finished enough for your needs - just a theoretical > hypothesis, not related to Gtk or any other - it could be a bit > frustrating. Imagine also you want to convince a company to > use Ada and that *their* people will succeed to use a > GUI building software, it could be hard to do without a perfectly > working "out of the CD" demo version. Simply - IHMO - because > a non user-friendly, software meant to build user-friendly > software can appear suspicious... That sounds a little more like my point. I can't sell this as a technology to use for a serious software development effort if I can't demonstrate that your garden variety developer is going to have a relatively easy job of learning how to use it. Imagine pitching this (or any other product) to a Senior Bozo and having to show them a demo of how you go about using it and training other developers to use it. If it appears to the Senior Bozo that this is going to consume some significant part of his budget on ramp-up time, the answer is going to be "No". The people who control the money don't like to take risks. If it looks like a particular technology is uncertain in any way, they will fall back to the tried and true. Maybe your average hobbyist can play around with bits and pieces of a given technology and maybe even add value to it for others. But when Serious Dollars are at stake, this isn't likely to happen. MDC -- ====================================================================== Marin David Condic - Quadrus Corporation - http://www.quadruscorp.com/ Send Replies To: m c o n d i c @ q u a d r u s c o r p . c o m Visit my web site at: http://www.mcondic.com/ "Giving money and power to Government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys." -- P. J. O'Rourke ====================================================================== ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: gtkada/glade info needed 2000-10-02 0:00 ` Marin David Condic @ 2000-10-02 0:00 ` Preben Randhol 0 siblings, 0 replies; 26+ messages in thread From: Preben Randhol @ 2000-10-02 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) On Mon, 02 Oct 2000 09:13:30 -0400, Marin David Condic wrote: >Maybe your average hobbyist can play around with bits and pieces of a >given technology and maybe even add value to it for others. Just because something doesn't _cost_ money, doesn't mean it isn't good! Just as because something that do _cost_ a lot of money, do not need to be any good. I have a very good example, but I guess you already know. I'm not sure IBM is your average hobbyist. That said, of course people will use something that they don't have to pay $ 800 out of their own pocket to use on their own time. -- Preben Randhol - Ph.D Student - http://www.pvv.org/~randhol/ ._. Debian 2.2 |"Don't think about domination, think about freedom, / _,\ Potato | it doesn't dominate." - Richard M. Stallman | (_./ GNU/Linux | To learn more visit => http://www.debian.org/ \, ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: gtkada/glade info needed 2000-09-30 0:00 gtkada/glade info needed Marin David Condic 2000-09-30 0:00 ` Ted Dennison 2000-10-01 0:00 ` Preben Randhol @ 2000-10-01 3:07 ` Robert Dewar 2000-10-01 3:36 ` DuckE 3 siblings, 0 replies; 26+ messages in thread From: Robert Dewar @ 2000-10-01 3:07 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <39D65E94.DD8563E@acm.org>, Marin David Condic <mcondic.nospam@acm.org> wrote: > Does anybody know where there might exist some documentation about using > Glade to build GUIs for use with GtkAda? You might want to try out the public mailing list gtkada@gtkada.eu.org. for discussions on the use of GtkAda. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: gtkada/glade info needed 2000-09-30 0:00 gtkada/glade info needed Marin David Condic ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2000-10-01 3:07 ` Robert Dewar @ 2000-10-01 3:36 ` DuckE 2000-10-01 0:00 ` Marin David Condic 3 siblings, 1 reply; 26+ messages in thread From: DuckE @ 2000-10-01 3:36 UTC (permalink / raw) [snip] > may be a poor excuse for a programming language, but MSVC++ installs > from a single disk, configures everything it needs to and runs properly > right out of the box. No net surfing for all the bits and pieces... Excuse me... but I installed MSVC++ 6.0 and decided to give it a try. I diligently typed in the code for the sample "scribble" application. Guess what. It didn't run. I had to download a service pack off the net to get it to work. I think they're up to SP4 now in MSVC++ 6.0. I didn't find MSVC++ easy to understand, nor did I find building applications using the Wizards to be intuitive or easy. Now if you want ot make a case for VB or Delphi, I'll go along with that. SteveD [snip] > > MDC > -- > ====================================================================== > Marin David Condic - Quadrus Corporation - http://www.quadruscorp.com/ > Send Replies To: m c o n d i c @ q u a d r u s c o r p . c o m > Visit my web site at: http://www.mcondic.com/ > > "Giving money and power to Government is like giving whiskey > and car keys to teenage boys." > > -- P. J. O'Rourke > ====================================================================== > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: gtkada/glade info needed 2000-10-01 3:36 ` DuckE @ 2000-10-01 0:00 ` Marin David Condic 2000-10-01 0:00 ` Ted Dennison 0 siblings, 1 reply; 26+ messages in thread From: Marin David Condic @ 2000-10-01 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) DuckE wrote: > Excuse me... but I installed MSVC++ 6.0 and decided to give it a try. I > diligently typed in the code for the sample "scribble" application. Guess > what. It didn't run. > > I had to download a service pack off the net to get it to work. I think > they're up to SP4 now in MSVC++ 6.0. > > I didn't find MSVC++ easy to understand, nor did I find building > applications using the Wizards to be intuitive or easy. Now if you want ot > make a case for VB or Delphi, I'll go along with that. > O.K. Your experience with it runs contrary to mine. When I installed it, I fired it up, pointed it at a body of C++ code we had around here and told it to get started compiling. It did. Maybe the release you got was buggy. It certainly doesn't speak well of *any* application if the "demo" stuff doesn't work. Also, please observe that I did not say that MSVC++ was intuitively obvious to even the most casual observer. It is not. Nor is Windows programming in general. However, it *is* well documented and I did not encounter any statements in the documentation claiming that it *was* easy to intuit your way through it. If you like VB or Delphi better - fine. I am not trying to make the case that MSVC++ is the greatest of all possible development kits. I can certainly imagine better ones - maybe someone else has done the same. My case is *only* that it comes as a complete suite of stuff that all works together and all from a single source. There are some very nice tools out there for Ada. There are some very good compilers and GUI development suites and all that stuff like that there. And often the price is a lot more attractive than that of MSVC++. You'll just have to visit a dozen different web pages to get them all and they won't all just run nicely with each other from the same root window and you'll probably have to visit a dozen other web sites to find documentation that explains what all the stuff is about and how to use it. (Some of this comes from the fact that many of the tools are offshoots or bindings to other tools. X is a binding to Y which was built on top of Z and X just refers you to the documentation for Y which refers you to Z and if you weren't born knowing Z, you're SOL. Did that make sense? :-) As a consumer of development tools, I'm merely expressing what I'd like to see in the way of an Ada development kit. It is the wise and successful capitalist that tries to give the customer what he wants. :-) I'd be more than happy to talk to any vendors about what I like in MSVC++ and what I don't like about it. Send me a marketing survey. MDC -- ====================================================================== Marin David Condic - Quadrus Corporation - http://www.quadruscorp.com/ Send Replies To: m c o n d i c @ q u a d r u s c o r p . c o m Visit my web site at: http://www.mcondic.com/ "Giving money and power to Government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys." -- P. J. O'Rourke ====================================================================== ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: gtkada/glade info needed 2000-10-01 0:00 ` Marin David Condic @ 2000-10-01 0:00 ` Ted Dennison 2000-10-01 0:00 ` Marin David Condic 0 siblings, 1 reply; 26+ messages in thread From: Ted Dennison @ 2000-10-01 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Marin David Condic wrote: > DuckE wrote: > > > I didn't find MSVC++ easy to understand, nor did I find building > > applications using the Wizards to be intuitive or easy. Now if you want ot > > make a case for VB or Delphi, I'll go along with that. > > > > O.K. Your experience with it runs contrary to mine. When I installed it, I > fired it up, pointed it at a body of C++ code we had around here and told it to > get started compiling. It did. Maybe the release you got was buggy. It > certainly doesn't speak well of *any* application if the "demo" stuff doesn't > work. Clearly you didn't try it from the command line. By default it doesn't add the environment variables you need compile from the command line. It takes a serious documentation spelunking adventure to find out how to get them added. So you must have done it from the GUI. I *still* haven't figured out how to do that (but I suppose I haven't tried very hard either). -- T.E.D. Home - mailto:dennison@telepath.com Work - mailto:dennison@ssd.fsi.com WWW - http://www.telepath.com/dennison/Ted/TED.html ICQ - 10545591 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: gtkada/glade info needed 2000-10-01 0:00 ` Ted Dennison @ 2000-10-01 0:00 ` Marin David Condic 2000-10-06 0:00 ` Charles Hixson 0 siblings, 1 reply; 26+ messages in thread From: Marin David Condic @ 2000-10-01 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Ted Dennison wrote: > Clearly you didn't try it from the command line. By default it doesn't add the > environment variables you need compile from the command line. It takes a serious > documentation spelunking adventure to find out how to get them added. You can run it from the command line??? :-) Kids these days with their GUI interfaces and fancy-pants install shields and all that. Why when I was a kid, we didn't even have a command line. All we had were punch cards and paper tape. And we were damned glad whe had 'em too! :-) O.K. Like I said - MSVC++ isn't perfect. My experience was very painless. Of course one of the other guys was here to lean over my shoulder and explain stuff to me, so that always helps, but I still had very little trouble just getting it to start up and work. (In-depth usage is a whole other story!) I've had similar experiences with lots of other software I've installed (and written!) for Windows. Then there are apps that are difficult to install and get working and they get annoying. Early versions of Gnat for Windows had you fooling with the registry and other mucking about that I thought was painful. Of course, now it comes with an install shield and pretty much seems to run nicely out of the box. Very easy and painless - the ACT guys should be proud of that. > > So you must have done it from the GUI. I *still* haven't figured out how to do that > (but I suppose I haven't tried very hard either). I guess I really don't want to linger too much on the "painless install" part since that is only one part of the problem. What I think are its more important advantages are things like how everything hangs together and you get adequate documentation with the installation that - even if it may be big and cumbersome - provides a source from which to find answers. We're all fond of saying "Hey pal! RTFM!!!!" but you can't "RTFM" if there is no "FM"! :-) If you use the tool much, there are certain things to like about it. I like how (after waiting several minutes for it to load everything!) you get a "Class View" of your project. You see all the classes you have in a tree form and can open them to see the methods and member variables that go with them. Double click on it and you're right there in the source. You make changes to the Class View and it shows up in your source. You make changes to the source and there it is in the Class View. It has an amazingly nice debugger - which for C++ you need a heck of a lot more than in other languages! Simple to run your program in debug mode, set breakpoints, etc. Want to see what's in a variable? Hang the cursor over it in the source you are editing. You can make changes to the source *while you are running* and automagically its just there. The GUI builder is accessible from the Resource View and I like how it shows you just the pieces you need for a given feature and how it builds code for you to hang the features together. (O.K. its crappy code and you really need to understand the Windows model if you hope to succeed - but a lot of that is inescapable. They made a a valiant effort to try to polish up the Windows model, but no matter how much time you spend polishing it, you are still just polishing a turd. :-) Now AdaGide and Gnat with GDB built in comes a long way in the right direction. I've not used GDB much - partly because with Ada I have a *lot* less need for a debugger and partly because there's no help file for it from the menu. (If it ain't right there, you tend not to think about it.) The debugger seems to have its own view of the source so you're not working from the same source view as what you are editing. It would be nice to point AdaGide at a directory and have it show you all the files in a tree-like structure where you could, for example, click on a package and see a summary of the elements within it - click on them and go to the source. And of course there's no GUI builder integrated with it that you might use to generate code and resources and just kind of have it all show up right there. (The GUI builder would have to sort of propose a model for building an app so you knew exactly where to go to hang your app code from the GUI code. And naturally, once you modify the GUI code, regeneration shouldn't mess it up.) Also, until you actually get the code to compile, there isn't a lot of help in navigating around the various source files. Unfortunately, the time you often need that kind of navigation the most is when you're struggling to find all the problems that are keeping it from compiling. Don't get me wrong - I think AdaGide with GDB and Gnat are a very nice toolset in many respects and they have come a long way. Its just not as seamless and complete as what you'll find with other Windows development kits. One day, it may get there and I certainly hope that happens. In the mean time, I guess I'll just continue to be a nudzh to those who develop toolkits. :-) MDC -- ====================================================================== Marin David Condic - Quadrus Corporation - http://www.quadruscorp.com/ Send Replies To: m c o n d i c @ q u a d r u s c o r p . c o m Visit my web site at: http://www.mcondic.com/ "Giving money and power to Government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys." -- P. J. O'Rourke ====================================================================== ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: gtkada/glade info needed 2000-10-01 0:00 ` Marin David Condic @ 2000-10-06 0:00 ` Charles Hixson 2000-10-07 4:10 ` Robert Dewar 0 siblings, 1 reply; 26+ messages in thread From: Charles Hixson @ 2000-10-06 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1144 bytes --] Marin David Condic wrote: > ... > O.K. Like I said - MSVC++ isn't perfect. My experience was very painless. Of course one > of the other guys was here to lean over my shoulder and explain stuff to me, so that > always helps > ... > > "Giving money and power to Government is like giving whiskey > and car keys to teenage boys." > > -- P. J. O'Rourke > ====================================================================== It sure does help! I suspect that starting with version 6 may help also. I sprang for version ... 3 I think it was. I found it appalling. And virtually unusable. I really believed after using that beast that MS is making a strong effort to force everyone into Visual Basic. (Since I now do a lot of Access work, I guess they were successful with me, but I sure don't love them for it!) I wish I could use Ada at work, but screen painting and printing reports are so important that Ada would be a bad choice. But I sure keep looking for a different one than what I'm currently stuck with! -- (c) Charles Hixson -- Addition of advertisements or hyperlinks to products specifically prohibited [-- Attachment #2: Card for Charles Hixson --] [-- Type: text/x-vcard, Size: 145 bytes --] begin:vcard n:Hixson;Charles x-mozilla-html:FALSE adr:;;;;;; version:2.1 email;internet:charleshixson@earthling.net fn:Charles Hixson end:vcard ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: gtkada/glade info needed 2000-10-06 0:00 ` Charles Hixson @ 2000-10-07 4:10 ` Robert Dewar 2000-10-07 0:00 ` Jerry van Dijk 0 siblings, 1 reply; 26+ messages in thread From: Robert Dewar @ 2000-10-07 4:10 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <39DE2F1C.46DED36F@earthlink.net>, Charles Hixson <charleshixsn@earthlink.net> wrote: > Marin David Condic wrote: > > > ... > > O.K. Like I said - MSVC++ isn't perfect. My experience was > > very painless. Of course one > > of the other guys was here to lean over my shoulder and > >explain stuff to me, so that > > always helps > > ... ================================================================ ====== > > It sure does help! I suspect that starting with version 6 may > help also. ... I wish I could use Ada at work, but screen > painting > and printing reports are so important that Ada would be a bad > choice. But I sure keep > looking for a different one than what I'm currently stuck > with! Actually we are finding that people are very successful in using GtkAda for screen painting (of course to be fair, we do provide the "leaning over shoulder" support function that can indeed be very helpful in succeeding with any of these tools. As for reports, not quite sure what kind of reports you are talking about, but if financial reports, then the picture stuff in Annex G can come in very handy :-) Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: gtkada/glade info needed 2000-10-07 4:10 ` Robert Dewar @ 2000-10-07 0:00 ` Jerry van Dijk 2000-10-09 0:00 ` Charles Hixson 0 siblings, 1 reply; 26+ messages in thread From: Jerry van Dijk @ 2000-10-07 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) > As for reports, not quite sure what kind of reports you > are talking about, but if financial reports, then the picture > stuff in Annex G can come in very handy :-) Or, if you are on windows, you can use GNATCOM to use any of the many standard Controls that are availble for report generation. -- -- Jerry van Dijk | email: jdijk@acm.org -- Team-Ada | web: stad.dsl.nl/~jvandyk -- Paris, France | Leiden, Holland ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: gtkada/glade info needed 2000-10-07 0:00 ` Jerry van Dijk @ 2000-10-09 0:00 ` Charles Hixson 2000-10-09 0:00 ` Jerry van Dijk 2000-10-10 6:52 ` Tarjei T. Jensen 0 siblings, 2 replies; 26+ messages in thread From: Charles Hixson @ 2000-10-09 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1582 bytes --] Could you please elaborate a little bit on "any of the many ...". I don't know of any available report generators. Since I am stuck on windows while at work, this is an interesting option. The ones that I know of are commercial, which, practically speaking, means unavailable (unless they also work on Linux, then I might purchase a copy for my own use, and if the license permitted and a version were available, I could use it also at work). I suppose that I might generate a link into MSAccess, and use their report generator. I've considered this in other contexts. But that looks to me as if it would create either much application instability (depending on finding the correct version at a different site) or great legal issues (including a copy of the needed dll's). That's the real reason that I backed away from doing this in Python. I think that I'd prefer to generate html and have the user print it from a browser. But a more self-contained approach would be much more acceptable. Jerry van Dijk wrote: > > As for reports, not quite sure what kind of reports you > > are talking about, but if financial reports, then the picture > > stuff in Annex G can come in very handy :-) > > Or, if you are on windows, you can use GNATCOM to use any of the many > standard Controls that are availble for report generation. > > -- > -- Jerry van Dijk | email: jdijk@acm.org > -- Team-Ada | web: stad.dsl.nl/~jvandyk > -- Paris, France | Leiden, Holland -- (c) Charles Hixson -- Addition of advertisements or hyperlinks to products specifically prohibited [-- Attachment #2: Card for Charles Hixson --] [-- Type: text/x-vcard, Size: 145 bytes --] begin:vcard n:Hixson;Charles x-mozilla-html:FALSE adr:;;;;;; version:2.1 email;internet:charleshixson@earthling.net fn:Charles Hixson end:vcard ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: gtkada/glade info needed 2000-10-09 0:00 ` Charles Hixson @ 2000-10-09 0:00 ` Jerry van Dijk 2000-10-10 6:52 ` Tarjei T. Jensen 1 sibling, 0 replies; 26+ messages in thread From: Jerry van Dijk @ 2000-10-09 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Charles Hixson <charleshixsn@earthlink.net> writes: > Could you please elaborate a little bit on "any of the many ...". I > don't know of any available report generators. Since I am stuck on > windows while at work, this is an interesting option. The ones that I > know of are commercial, which, practically speaking, means unavailable Indeed, I am not aware of any freeware report generators. > I suppose that I might generate a link into MSAccess, and use their > report generator. I've considered this in other contexts. But that > looks to me as if it would create either much application instability > (depending on finding the correct version at a different site) or great > legal issues (including a copy of the needed dll's). I've use Access in this context also, and it works fine. Of course, it requires the user to have or obtain a copy of it. But that should hardly be a problem in a commercial environment. -- -- Jerry van Dijk | email: jdijk@acm.org -- Team-Ada | web: stad.dsl.nl/~jvandyk -- Paris, France | Leiden, Holland ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: gtkada/glade info needed 2000-10-09 0:00 ` Charles Hixson 2000-10-09 0:00 ` Jerry van Dijk @ 2000-10-10 6:52 ` Tarjei T. Jensen 2000-10-10 0:00 ` Charles Hixson 1 sibling, 1 reply; 26+ messages in thread From: Tarjei T. Jensen @ 2000-10-10 6:52 UTC (permalink / raw) Charles Hixson wrote in message <39E1F46C.414A798E@earthlink.net>... >Could you please elaborate a little bit on "any of the many ...". I >don't know of any available report generators. Since I am stuck on >windows while at work, this is an interesting option. The ones that I >know of are commercial, which, practically speaking, means unavailable >(unless they also work on Linux, then I might purchase a copy for my own >use, and if the license permitted and a version were available, I could >use it also at work). There is a theoretical chance that either TeX og LaTeX could be coopted into becoming the back end of a report generator. That would ofcourse require some programming both to generate the (la)tex source file and various support routines. Worthwhile? Don't know. Depends on how badly you need it. The output would probably be very nice. Greetings, ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: gtkada/glade info needed 2000-10-10 6:52 ` Tarjei T. Jensen @ 2000-10-10 0:00 ` Charles Hixson 2000-10-10 0:00 ` Ted Dennison 0 siblings, 1 reply; 26+ messages in thread From: Charles Hixson @ 2000-10-10 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2578 bytes --] I've looked into that. I've also looked into co-opting Mozilla. But this project has less than one person assigned to it. A part of me. HTML generation is reasonable. gtk is reasonable, but doesn't get me the needed reports. TeX/LaTeX requires additional software installed at many remote locations, and, also, I don't already know it. The solution that I seem to be being driven towards is a web server. I'm sure I could put something up using Apache. The problem is that some of the clients don't have web access, but the number has been decreasing. This would be a more complicated web page than I've ever done before, and the amount of data to be transferred causes me to prefer a more locally based connection. Internally, on our LAN, a web server would be quite a reasonable approach. I'm less certain about over the main internet. Still, these files would be considerably smaller than just about any MP3 file, but if any of the clients are using dial up connections they would probably find the delays inherent in the system to be intolerable. These are database queries, after all. But I seem to be veering away from Ada. Most folk seem to say that gtk on Win32 systems is unreliable. Is this true for the current version of gtkAda? I would prefer to learn the gtk toolkit because it is crossplatform, but if it's unreliable I should probably look elsewhere. Also, are there any special trick to getting glade running on Win95? I haven't yet been successful (though I admit my efforts have been quite dispersed). -- (c) Charles Hixson -- Addition of advertisements or hyperlinks to products specifically prohibited "Tarjei T. Jensen" wrote: > Charles Hixson wrote in message <39E1F46C.414A798E@earthlink.net>... > >Could you please elaborate a little bit on "any of the many ...". I > >don't know of any available report generators. Since I am stuck on > >windows while at work, this is an interesting option. The ones that I > >know of are commercial, which, practically speaking, means unavailable > >(unless they also work on Linux, then I might purchase a copy for my own > >use, and if the license permitted and a version were available, I could > >use it also at work). > > There is a theoretical chance that either TeX og LaTeX could be coopted into > becoming the back end of a report generator. That would ofcourse require some > programming both to generate the (la)tex source file and various support > routines. > > Worthwhile? Don't know. Depends on how badly you need it. The output would > probably be very nice. > > Greetings, [-- Attachment #2: Card for Charles Hixson --] [-- Type: text/x-vcard, Size: 145 bytes --] begin:vcard n:Hixson;Charles x-mozilla-html:FALSE adr:;;;;;; version:2.1 email;internet:charleshixson@earthling.net fn:Charles Hixson end:vcard ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: gtkada/glade info needed 2000-10-10 0:00 ` Charles Hixson @ 2000-10-10 0:00 ` Ted Dennison 2000-10-10 0:00 ` Leonard 0 siblings, 1 reply; 26+ messages in thread From: Ted Dennison @ 2000-10-10 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <39E32F6E.8BCE32F0@earthlink.net>, Charles Hixson <charleshixsn@earthlink.net> wrote: > I've looked into that. I've also looked into co-opting Mozilla. But If a web browser on Win32 would be helpful you can also use COM to control IE. > The solution that I seem to be being driven towards is a web server. > I'm sure I could put something up using Apache. The problem is that There's also the Ada web server AWS. :-) > Most folk seem to say that gtk on Win32 systems is unreliable. Is > this true for the current version of gtkAda? I would prefer to learn > the gtk toolkit because it is crossplatform, but if it's unreliable I > should probably look elsewhere. I don't think anyone was saying that. What we were talking about was the Glade GUI builder being unreliable, and the code generation facilities perhaps lacking a bit of polish. I have only found 1 genuine bug in the Win32 GTK itself. That is minor a menu display glitch when using two monitors (on two different display cards). I doubt you'll be running into that one. :-) I will say that I don't like the fact that all the Win32 GTK windows have that goofy little GTK icon in the upper left corner. If I could change that somehow it'd be nice. But that's the only complaint I have at all for Win32 GTK. If you want a complex multiplatform GUI, its almost certianly the way to go. -- T.E.D. http://www.telepath.com/~dennison/Ted/TED.html Day 5 of Free Europe Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: gtkada/glade info needed 2000-10-10 0:00 ` Ted Dennison @ 2000-10-10 0:00 ` Leonard 0 siblings, 0 replies; 26+ messages in thread From: Leonard @ 2000-10-10 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Ted Dennison <dennison@telepath.com> wrote: <snip> >I will say that I don't like the fact that all the Win32 GTK windows >have that goofy little GTK icon in the upper left corner. If I could >change that somehow it'd be nice. "Resource Hacker is a freeware utility to view, modify, add, delete and extract resources in 32bit Windows executables. It incorporates an internal resource script compiler and decompiler and works on Win95, Win98, WinNT, and Win2000 operating systems." http://www.rpi.net.au/~ajohnson/resourcehacker/ I have not tried GTK, or even Ada yet, but you should be able to replace the GTK icon with a non-goofy one. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2000-10-10 6:52 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 26+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2000-09-30 0:00 gtkada/glade info needed Marin David Condic 2000-09-30 0:00 ` Ted Dennison 2000-09-30 0:00 ` Marin David Condic 2000-10-01 0:00 ` Preben Randhol 2000-10-01 0:00 ` Marin David Condic 2000-10-01 0:00 ` Preben Randhol 2000-10-02 3:45 ` Robert Dewar 2000-10-02 0:00 ` Gautier 2000-10-02 0:00 ` Preben Randhol 2000-10-02 0:00 ` Ted Dennison 2000-10-02 0:00 ` Marin David Condic 2000-10-02 0:00 ` Preben Randhol 2000-10-01 3:07 ` Robert Dewar 2000-10-01 3:36 ` DuckE 2000-10-01 0:00 ` Marin David Condic 2000-10-01 0:00 ` Ted Dennison 2000-10-01 0:00 ` Marin David Condic 2000-10-06 0:00 ` Charles Hixson 2000-10-07 4:10 ` Robert Dewar 2000-10-07 0:00 ` Jerry van Dijk 2000-10-09 0:00 ` Charles Hixson 2000-10-09 0:00 ` Jerry van Dijk 2000-10-10 6:52 ` Tarjei T. Jensen 2000-10-10 0:00 ` Charles Hixson 2000-10-10 0:00 ` Ted Dennison 2000-10-10 0:00 ` Leonard
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