GUI Builder

GUI Builder

[johnnie_go_ro]

where can i find a good GUI Builder for Ada 95. i am using a windows OS.
i have the objectada 7.1 from Aonix and the GUI Builder there is only a
demo where you can't save any files.

perhaps somebody has a better idea how i can program nice graphical
applications with Ada 95.

i would be glad if someone could tell me where i can find some good
references (tutorials) online.

thanks

and i hope u can help me.



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Re: GUI Builder

[John English]

johnnie_go_ro@my-deja.com wrote:
> 
> where can i find a good GUI Builder for Ada 95. i am using a windows OS.
> i have the objectada 7.1 from Aonix and the GUI Builder there is only a
> demo where you can't save any files.
> 
> perhaps somebody has a better idea how i can program nice graphical
> applications with Ada 95.
> 
> i would be glad if someone could tell me where i can find some good
> references (tutorials) online.

Try http://www.it.bton.ac.uk/staff/je/jewl/.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
 John English              | mailto:je@brighton.ac.uk
 Senior Lecturer           | http://www.it.bton.ac.uk/staff/je
 Dept. of Computing        | ** NON-PROFIT CD FOR CS STUDENTS **
 University of Brighton    |    -- see http://burks.bton.ac.uk
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: GUI Builder

[Gautier]

johnnie_go_ro@my-deja.com:

> where can i find a good GUI Builder for Ada 95. i am using a windows OS.
> i have the objectada 7.1 from Aonix and the GUI Builder there is only a
> demo where you can't save any files.

There is CLAW - you can save files in the demo version and 4 compilers
are supported!

-> http://www.rrsoftware.com/html/prodinf/claw/claw.htm

_____________________________________________
Gautier  --  http://members.xoom.com/gdemont/

Java volant, Ada manent

Re: GUI Builder

[Ed Falis]

johnnie_go_ro@my-deja.com wrote:
> where can i find a good GUI Builder for Ada 95. i am using a windows
> OS. i have the objectada 7.1 from Aonix and the GUI Builder there is
> only a demo where you can't save any files.
> 
> perhaps somebody has a better idea how i can program nice graphical
> applications with Ada 95.
> 
> i would be glad if someone could tell me where i can find some good
> references (tutorials) online.
> 
> thanks
> 
> and i hope u can help me.
> 
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Try GTKAda. Cross-platform. Start at www.adapower.com to locate the
download.

- Ed

Re: GUI Builder

[Pascal Obry]

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<johnnie_go_ro@my-deja.com> a �crit dans le message :
8gk7k1$uls$1@nnrp1.deja.com...
> where can i find a good GUI Builder for Ada 95. i am using a windows OS.

It is nice to see all these answers, remember not so far ago this question
would have
no answer at all !!

Now we have: Aonix, JEWL, GTKAda, CLAW and we could add Visual Ada.

Not so bad :)

Pascal.

--

--|------------------------------------------------------------
--| Pascal Obry                               Team-Ada Member |
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Re: GUI Builder

[Pascal Obry]

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Pascal Obry <p.obry@der.edf.fr> a �crit dans le message :
8gm5i3$cds$1@clnews.edf.fr...
>
> <johnnie_go_ro@my-deja.com> a �crit dans le message :
> 8gk7k1$uls$1@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > where can i find a good GUI Builder for Ada 95. i am using a windows OS.
>
> It is nice to see all these answers, remember not so far ago this question
> would have
> no answer at all !!
>
> Now we have: Aonix, JEWL, GTKAda, CLAW and we could add Visual Ada.
>

And I forgot RAPID.

Pascal.

--

--|------------------------------------------------------------
--| Pascal Obry                               Team-Ada Member |
--|                                                           |
--| EDF-DER-IPN-SID- T T I                                    |
--|                       Intranet: http://cln46gb            |
--| Bureau N-023            e-mail: p.obry@der.edf.fr         |
--| 1 Av G�n�ral de Gaulle  voice : +33-1-47.65.50.91         |
--| 92141 Clamart CEDEX     fax   : +33-1-47.65.50.07         |
--| FRANCE                                                    |
--|------------------------------------------------------------
--|
--|         http://perso.wanadoo.fr/pascal.obry
--|
--|   "The best way to travel is by means of imagination"

Re: GUI Builder

[DuckE]

>
> It is nice to see all these answers, remember not so far ago this question
> would have
> no answer at all !!
>
> Now we have: Aonix, JEWL, GTKAda, CLAW and we could add Visual Ada.
>
> Not so bad :)
>

Unless you've actually tried them :-(

I've used Delphi and Visual Basic.

I've tried the Aonix GUI builder, JEWL, GTKAda, and the demo of CLAW.  They
don't even come close to the level of Delphi or Visual Basic on Win32.

I'm sorry to say...

IMHO.

SteveD

Re: GUI Builder

[Marin D. Condic]

DuckE wrote:
> I've tried the Aonix GUI builder, JEWL, GTKAda, and the demo of CLAW.  They
> don't even come close to the level of Delphi or Visual Basic on Win32.
> 
> I'm sorry to say...
> 
As that great philosopher, Mick Jagger, once said: You can't always get
what you want, but if you try real hard, you just might find, you get
what you need. :-)

I'm glad that progress is being made on this front. Maybe if usage goes
up, more features will be forthcoming. It's a chicken and egg thing.....

MDC
-- 
======================================================================
Marin David Condic - Quadrus Corporation - http://www.quadruscorp.com/
Send Replies To: m c o n d i c @ q u a d r u s c o r p . c o m
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    --  Charles Montgomery Burns, [4F10]
======================================================================

Re: GUI Builder

[Robert Dewar]

In article <392f2dd2.0@news.pacifier.com>,
  "DuckE" <nospam_steved@pacifier.com> wrote:

> Unless you've actually tried them :-(
>
> I've used Delphi and Visual Basic.
>
> I've tried the Aonix GUI builder, JEWL, GTKAda, and the demo
> of CLAW.  They don't even come close to the level of Delphi or
> Visual Basic on Win32.
>
> I'm sorry to say...

Sounds like you have done a lot of fiddling and not really
dug in. I would suggest that you concentrate on one of these
tools and really learn it. Because for several of these tools,
I know people who have found them very successful once they
understood the technology well.

Of course a lot depends on what you are trying to do. If you
just want to quickly throw together a trivial application, then
most certainly these are not the ideal tools, although they are
quite servicable for this purpose. But the typical Ada
application is considerably more sophisticated, and requires
much more than a thrown-together interface.

That being said, I have see demos of people using GLADE (not
even mentioned above, but I assume you have used it), which
are pretty impressive in terms of churning out a simple
interface fast.


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Re: GUI Builder

[DuckE]

"Robert Dewar" <robert_dewar@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8go5v0$nds$1@nnrp1.deja.com...

[snip]
>
> That being said, I have see demos of people using GLADE (not
> even mentioned above, but I assume you have used it), which
> are pretty impressive in terms of churning out a simple
> interface fast.
>

Although I didn't mention GLADE, of the Ada GUI builders I've worked with it
appears to be the closest to "showtime".  But as it says in the
documentation, it is not stable on Win32.

My second vote would be for CLAW.  Their demo looks promising, but is buggy.

FYI: Most of the real work of our applications are in Ada.  Our user
interfaces are primarily in Delphi.  We communicate between the two using
our own publish subscribe architechture that runs on TCP/IP sockets.

I would like nothing more than to use Ada for the user interfaces as well,
but to date I haven't seen what I would describe as an appropriate tool.
Yes I know that you can build user win32 user interfaces without GUI
builders, but it is not very productive.

Maybe next year...  I keep looking.

SteveD

Re: GUI Builder

[Brian Rogoff]

On Sat, 27 May 2000, DuckE wrote:
> I would like nothing more than to use Ada for the user interfaces as well,
> but to date I haven't seen what I would describe as an appropriate tool.
> Yes I know that you can build user win32 user interfaces without GUI
> builders, but it is not very productive.

Steve,
    In order to go from the current state to some better state, it might
be helpful for you to provide a list of things that you'd like in an Ada 
GUI building tool, rather than a dismissive "They all suck compared to
Delphi and VB". That way the tool builders have something concrete to 
shoot for. 

    From my POV, Delphi and VB suck. I work in the VLSI design realm, and 
if it doesn't run on Unix it ain't worth using. Well, that's not strictly 
true (FPGAs, schematic capture tools, etc) but its true for the most part. 

-- Brian

Re: GUI Builder

[DuckE]

"Brian Rogoff" <bpr@shell5.ba.best.com> wrote in message
news:Pine.BSF.4.21.0005271019490.21891-100000@shell5.ba.best.com...
> On Sat, 27 May 2000, DuckE wrote:
> > I would like nothing more than to use Ada for the user interfaces as
well,
> > but to date I haven't seen what I would describe as an appropriate tool.
> > Yes I know that you can build user win32 user interfaces without GUI
> > builders, but it is not very productive.
>
> Steve,
>     In order to go from the current state to some better state, it might
> be helpful for you to provide a list of things that you'd like in an Ada
> GUI building tool, rather than a dismissive "They all suck compared to
> Delphi and VB". That way the tool builders have something concrete to
> shoot for.
>

What I want?

Start with GLADE and GtkAda on Win32.

Make every dialog box in the GUI builder environment work.

Make every component in the GUI builder environment work.

Don't require a console window to be running in the background while my GUI
app runs.

Don't let the GUI builder crash while I'm designing screens.

Get rid of the console window in the background of the GUI builder while I'm
designing my interface.

Give the ability to modify the GUI after generating the code and
automatically merge my existing code with the changes.

Do I really need to send this list to someone?  I thought it was obvious.

SteveD


>     From my POV, Delphi and VB suck. I work in the VLSI design realm, and
> if it doesn't run on Unix it ain't worth using. Well, that's not strictly
> true (FPGAs, schematic capture tools, etc) but its true for the most part.
>
> -- Brian
>
>

Re: GUI Builder

[Robert Dewar]

In article <393047b0.0@news.pacifier.com>,
  "DuckE" <nospam_steved@pacifier.com> wrote:
> What I want?
>
> Start with GLADE and GtkAda on Win32.
>
> Make every dialog box in the GUI builder environment work.
>
> Make every component in the GUI builder environment work.
>
> Don't require a console window to be running in the background
while my GUI
> app runs.
>
> Don't let the GUI builder crash while I'm designing screens.
>
> Get rid of the console window in the background of the GUI
builder while I'm
> designing my interface.
>
> Give the ability to modify the GUI after generating the code
and
> automatically merge my existing code with the changes.
>
> Do I really need to send this list to someone?  I thought it
was obvious.


First of all, I think you will find it makes more sense NOT
to use the Windows version of GtkAda to explore this technology
initially, since, as documented, the Windows version is very
much in beta test stage.

Second, what is interesting is to separate your problems that
come from general Windows instability (as usual we can thank
Bill for subtle incompatibilities that make the Windows
environment by far the most difficult to deal with), from those
that are basic design issues.

Note that the NT version is improving rapidly week by week,
so to the extent your comments are on stability, you are right,
they are not helpful. But reading the above list, it seems that
some of these may indeed be design suggestions. If so, write
them up carefully, with suggested improvements and send them
to the GtkAda authors.

Just so people know, two of the three GtkAda authors work full
time for ACT-Europe (Arnaud Charlet and Emmanuel
Briot), and Ada Core Technologies is fully committed to
developing and improving this technology, so it is very
much worth while to send suggestions into report@gnat.com.

Robert Dewar
Ada Core Technologies


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Re: GUI Builder

[Jeff Carter]

DuckE wrote:
> Don't require a console window to be running in the background while my GUI
> app runs.

This is not required. Link with "-mwindows" and you don't get the DOS
window.

The Windows version of GtkAda is explicitly described as not ready for
prime time yet.

-- 
Jeff Carter
"Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries."
Monty Python & the Holy Grail

Re: GUI Builder

[Robert Dewar]

In article <39308858.D72BD389@acm.org>,
  jrcarter@acm.org wrote:
> DuckE wrote:
> > Don't require a console window to be running in the
background while my GUI
> > app runs.
>
> This is not required. Link with "-mwindows" and you don't get
the DOS
> window.

This incidentally is the sort of thing I am referring to when
I suggest that you really need to get to know a technology
well before dismissing it. It is quite common that people
assume there are design shortcomings just from not understanding
all the available options


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Re: GUI Builder

[DuckE]

> > This is not required. Link with "-mwindows" and you don't get
> the DOS
> > window.
>
> This incidentally is the sort of thing I am referring to when
> I suggest that you really need to get to know a technology
> well before dismissing it. It is quite common that people
> assume there are design shortcomings just from not understanding
> all the available options
>

Yeah, right.  This works (get's rid of the console window) when I build my
own
stand alone window's GUI program, but didn't work the last time I tried
using
GLADE as a GUI builder on Win32.

Maybe your results were different?

SteveD

Re: GUI Builder

[John English]

DuckE wrote:
> Don't require a console window to be running in the background while my GUI
> app runs.

This was addressed in a previous thread -- just link using
the -mwindows switch (e.g. gnatmake x.adb -largs -mwindows).

HTH,

-----------------------------------------------------------------
 John English              | mailto:je@brighton.ac.uk
 Senior Lecturer           | http://www.it.bton.ac.uk/staff/je
 Dept. of Computing        | ** NON-PROFIT CD FOR CS STUDENTS **
 University of Brighton    |    -- see http://burks.bton.ac.uk
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: GUI Builder

[tmoran]

>My second vote would be for CLAW.  Their demo looks promising, but is buggy.
  Having developed part of that demo, I'd really appreciate hearing what
part has what bugs.

Re: GUI Builder

[Emmanuel Briot]

Robert Dewar <robert_dewar@my-deja.com> wrote:

> Sounds like you have done a lot of fiddling and not really
> dug in. I would suggest that you concentrate on one of these
> tools and really learn it. Because for several of these tools,
> I know people who have found them very successful once they
> understood the technology well.

Speaking of which: there will be a tutorial on GtkAda at Ada-Europe,
in Berlin (end of June). Those interested to learn more (including some
live demos and step by step interface building) should register for this
tutorial.
I am not sure what the URL for Ada-Europe is, but I am sure that some
people out there know and can help :-)

Emmanuel


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Re: GUI Builder

[Jean-Pierre Rosen]

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Emmanuel Briot <briot@gnat.com> a �crit dans le message : 8gtsp4$e39$1@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Robert Dewar <robert_dewar@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > Sounds like you have done a lot of fiddling and not really
> > dug in. I would suggest that you concentrate on one of these
> > tools and really learn it. Because for several of these tools,
> > I know people who have found them very successful once they
> > understood the technology well.
>
> Speaking of which: there will be a tutorial on GtkAda at Ada-Europe,
> in Berlin (end of June). Those interested to learn more (including some
> live demos and step by step interface building) should register for this
> tutorial.
> I am not sure what the URL for Ada-Europe is, but I am sure that some
> people out there know and can help :-)
>
> Emmanuel
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.

Re: GUI Builder

[Gautier]

Robert Dewar:

> Sounds like you have done a lot of fiddling and not really
> dug in. I would suggest that you concentrate on one of these
> tools and really learn it. Because for several of these tools,
> I know people who have found them very successful once they
> understood the technology well.

These visual tools are not (only) intended for clever and patient
professors who read entire reference manuals before
programming. They must be the most intuitive, self-explaining
possible. Precisely, if you cannot fiddle almost randomly for
2 minutes without crashing the GUI builder or bringing the
project to an unrecoverable state, it's definively not
ripe! Think you should convince pointy-haired bosses and
employees who Scott Adams draws with big eyes...
BTW: I did some constructive reports for CLAW, being an ideal
idiot as for visual programming...

_____________________________________________
Gautier  --  http://members.xoom.com/gdemont/

Re: GUI Builder

[Robert Dewar]

In article <39328392.4B007A4A@maths.unine.ch>,
  Gautier <gautier.demontmollin@maths.unine.ch> wrote:

> These visual tools are not (only) intended for clever and
> patient professors who read entire reference manuals before
> programming. They must be the most intuitive, self-explaining
> possible.

The issue is not patient professors, but serious professionals
doing serious work. That's definitely the audience I think is
the important one to address. People who want to fiddle around
playing without reading the documentation are a much less
important audience.

(it is unfortunately true that many people who consider
themselves serious professionals are actually in the
second category :-)


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Re: GUI Builder

[Gautier]

DuckE:

> I've tried the Aonix GUI builder, JEWL, GTKAda, and the demo of CLAW.  They
> don't even come close to the level of Delphi or Visual Basic on Win32.

> I'm sorry to say...

It's obvious that the people programming the interfaces and those doing
the contents are not the same... For now a good way is to make the interface
in Delphi and the contents in Ada. Anyway in a few years it could be reasonable
to do all in Ada, depending on the needs.
CLAW is in active development - the demo of GUI builder doesn't reflect the
current version. 
What about development of Aonix ?
_____________________________________________
Gautier  --  http://members.xoom.com/gdemont/

Re: GUI Builder

[Robert Dewar]

In article <392FA7C7.13AA9709@maths.unine.ch>,
  Gautier <gautier.demontmollin@maths.unine.ch> wrote:
> Anyway in a few years it could be reasonable
> to do all in Ada, depending on the needs.

Several of our large customers are finding that they can
do it all in Ada now, using GtkAda, which is definitely
under very active development.

One thing to realize is that constructive suggestions are
indeed very valuable, and in particular, the GtkAda team
is very happy to receive suggestions. We get many suggestions
from our customers, many of which have been implemented,
but we are happy to look at suggestions from anyone. Please
send suggestions to report@gnat.com.

Robert Dewar
Ada Core Technologies


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Re: GUI Builder

[Marin D. Condic]

Robert Dewar wrote:
> 
> One thing to realize is that constructive suggestions are
> indeed very valuable, and in particular, the GtkAda team
> is very happy to receive suggestions. We get many suggestions
> from our customers, many of which have been implemented,
> but we are happy to look at suggestions from anyone. Please
> send suggestions to report@gnat.com.
> 
O.K. Dumb question(s): Does GtkAda work on Wondows? Where can I download
it?

I've been playing with CLAW some and am currently using Visual C++, so
I'd like to do some comparisons.

MDC
-- 
======================================================================
Marin David Condic - Quadrus Corporation - http://www.quadruscorp.com/
Send Replies To: m c o n d i c @ q u a d r u s c o r p . c o m
Visit my web site at:  http://www.mcondic.com/

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======================================================================

Re: GUI Builder

[Robert Dewar]

In article <3930668D.F1B16B13@quadruscorp.com>,
  "Marin D. Condic" <mcondic-nospam@quadruscorp.com> wrote:
> O.K. Dumb question(s): Does GtkAda work on Wondows?

Yes, it definitely works on windows. The stability on windows
is much improved, but still behind the Unix versions, but
certainly good enough to evaluate.

> I've been playing with CLAW some and am currently using Visual
> C++, so I'd like to do some comparisons.

Definitely the windows version is suitable for doing these
comparisons.

> Where can I download it?

Check the GtkAda announcement thread that appeared recently
on CLA.


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Re: GUI Builder

[Marin D. Condic]

Robert Dewar wrote:
> Check the GtkAda announcement thread that appeared recently
> on CLA.
> 
Found the link: http://gtkada.eu.org/ Thanks.

MDC
-- 
======================================================================
Marin David Condic - Quadrus Corporation - http://www.quadruscorp.com/
Send Replies To: m c o n d i c @ q u a d r u s c o r p . c o m
Visit my web site at:  http://www.mcondic.com/

"I'd trade it all for just a little more"
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======================================================================

Re: GUI Builder

[Didier Utheza]

The address of GtkAda is: http://gtkada.eu.org/
The window version is coming with glade (http://glade.pn.org/)
But as Mr Dewar said, it is still a version number behind Linux/*BSD.
On Sun, 28 May 2000, Robert Dewar wrote:

> In article <3930668D.F1B16B13@quadruscorp.com>,
>   "Marin D. Condic" <mcondic-nospam@quadruscorp.com> wrote:
> > O.K. Dumb question(s): Does GtkAda work on Wondows?
> 
> Yes, it definitely works on windows. The stability on windows
> is much improved, but still behind the Unix versions, but
> certainly good enough to evaluate.
> 
> > I've been playing with CLAW some and am currently using Visual
> > C++, so I'd like to do some comparisons.
> 
> Definitely the windows version is suitable for doing these
> comparisons.
> 
> > Where can I download it?
> 
> Check the GtkAda announcement thread that appeared recently
> on CLA.
> 
> 
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
> 
> 

Re: GUI Builder

[tmoran]

>I've tried the Aonix GUI builder, JEWL, GTKAda, and the demo of CLAW.  They
>don't even come close to the level of Delphi or Visual Basic on Win32.
  The demo version of CLAW is of course not the same as the full version,
but it's certainly true that CLAW was never intended for the same tasks
Visual Basic is suited for.

Re: GUI Builder

[Geoff Bull]

Pascal Obry wrote:
> 
> Now we have: Aonix, JEWL, GTKAda, CLAW and we could add Visual Ada.


And Martin Carlisle's Rapid.

Re: GUI Builder

[Larry Kilgallen]

In article <8gk7k1$uls$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, johnnie_go_ro@my-deja.com writes:
> where can i find a good GUI Builder for Ada 95. i am using a windows OS.
> i have the objectada 7.1 from Aonix and the GUI Builder there is only a
> demo where you can't save any files.

The Aonix GUI Builder saves files just fine if you buy the more
expensive version.

gui builder

[V�ctor Rivero]

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where can i get a free gui builder for Ada, similar than Claw??

--
V�ctor Rivero Ausucua
www.terra.es/personal2/victor.rivero
vrivero@teleline.es

Re: gui builder

[Paul Hussein]

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http://glade.pn.org/

its free

"V�ctor Rivero" <vrivero@teleline.es> wrote in message
news:aaEn5.5038$NM1.59284@telenews.adm.adm...
> where can i get a free gui builder for Ada, similar than Claw??
>
> --
> V�ctor Rivero Ausucua
> www.terra.es/personal2/victor.rivero
> vrivero@teleline.es
>
>

GUI Builder

[Casper]

Is there any freeware GUI builder for Ada95 for Windows95?

GUI builder

[Warren Ahner]

I was wandering where I can find some help on using the GUI builder in
ObjectAda Enterprise Edition?