ADA grammar

ADA grammar

[Joe Gallagher]

Hello!!
If I'm posting to the wrong newsgroup, please send me nasty mail telling me
so, okay???
I was wondering if someone out there could possibly send me a copy of an
yaccable Ada grammar???  Or, even close to one.  I'm just an experimenter
with Yacc and other parser generators like it.  And, maybe, if I get REAL
ambitious, might write a scanner to go with it!!
Thanks in advance to those who reply.

Joe Gallagher

Ada Grammar

[Rindert Schutten]

To unpack:
  * first decode with: uudecode     name.tar.Z.uu
  * uncompress with:   uncompress   name.tar
  * read with tar:     tar xvf name nam.tar

If you have any grammars for me either in BNF or in YACC 
format I would love to receive them. 

Good luck.

Rindert Schutten 

------------------------  CUT HERE --------------------------
begin 644 ada.tar.Z
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MHK6"'3]CT!$T]@]#8TI14VRD &G9FC2NK?-P]T$0KQU_:T*L$"_$#'%#[! O
!Q+6"
 
end

ada grammar

[gene]

     Can anyone tell me where I can locate a copy of the lex/yacc grammar
specification for Ada?

      Why don't people want to love           |
      That's what life is for                 |         Gene Kostruba
      To become one with another person       |         gene@cornu
      And to do everything for that person.   |

Ada grammar

[sivesh pradhaan]

Hi guys,
	does any of you know how many terminals and non-terminals production 
rules are there in the grammar of Ada? Also how many reserved words are there
in Ada? Please email all responces to b32b!rebels!sivesh@ingr.com as I am
not a frequent reader of this news group. Thanx 

-Sivesh

ADA grammar

[Orsi Jean-Christophe]

I am looking for the rules of the ADA grammar, made with LEX and YACC,
or FLEX and BISON. Could you tell me where could I find this (if it is
possible to have it) ?


 - LEX (or FLEX) is a lexical analyser generator.
 - YACC (or BISON) is a lexical analyser generator that use LEX.

(I mailed to "Michele L. Kee, AdaIC" <adainfo@ajpo.sei.cmu.edu> who
teld me to mail you)


                                          ORSI Jean-Christophe
                                          ORSI@cerisi.cerisi.fr

ADA grammar

[JamesO]

Hello, I'm searching for an ADA grammer I can use with a Lex & YACC for a
project I'm doing.

If anyone can point me in the right direction it would be very helpful.

I'm also searching for the same for C or C++, preferably C++, Basic,
preferably Visual Basic, Java, However I do have an untested grammer with no
lexer for Java.

Thanks in advance.   JamesO

Re: ADA grammar

[Tucker Taft]

JamesO (jmy_hrt@hotmail.com) wrote:
: Hello, I'm searching for an ADA grammer I can use with a Lex & YACC for a
: project I'm doing.

: If anyone can point me in the right direction it would be very helpful.

Take a look at:
   http://wuarchive.wustl.edu/languages/ada/ajpo/standards/95lrm_rat/

In there you will find grammar9x.y and lexer9x.l,
which are (simplified) Yacc and Lex grammars for Ada 95.

: I'm also searching for the same for C or C++, preferably C++, Basic,
: preferably Visual Basic, Java, However I do have an untested grammer with no
: lexer for Java.

A web search might be the best approach.

: Thanks in advance.   JamesO

--
-Tucker Taft   stt@averstar.com   http://www.averstar.com/~stt/
Technical Director, Distributed IT Solutions  (www.averstar.com/tools)
AverStar (formerly Intermetrics, Inc.)   Burlington, MA  USA

Re: ADA grammar

[Tucker Taft]

Tucker Taft (stt@houdini.camb.inmet.com) wrote:
: JamesO (jmy_hrt@hotmail.com) wrote:
: : Hello, I'm searching for an ADA grammer I can use with a Lex & YACC for a
: : project I'm doing.

: : If anyone can point me in the right direction it would be very helpful.

: Take a look at:
:    http://wuarchive.wustl.edu/languages/ada/ajpo/standards/95lrm_rat/

A somewhat shorter URL for the same thing is:

   www.adaic.org/standards/95lrm_rat/

: In there you will find grammar9x.y and lexer9x.l,
: which are (simplified) Yacc and Lex grammars for Ada 95.


--
-Tucker Taft   stt@averstar.com   http://www.averstar.com/~stt/
Technical Director, Distributed IT Solutions  (www.averstar.com/tools)
AverStar (formerly Intermetrics, Inc.)   Burlington, MA  USA

Re: ADA grammar

[JamesO]

Thank-you very much Mr. Taft, that's very helpfull. I was begining to get
discouraged.


Tucker Taft wrote in message ...
>Tucker Taft (stt@houdini.camb.inmet.com) wrote:
>: JamesO (jmy_hrt@hotmail.com) wrote:
>: : Hello, I'm searching for an ADA grammer I can use with a Lex & YACC for
a
>: : project I'm doing.
>
>: : If anyone can point me in the right direction it would be very helpful.
>
>: Take a look at:
>:    http://wuarchive.wustl.edu/languages/ada/ajpo/standards/95lrm_rat/
>
>A somewhat shorter URL for the same thing is:
>
>   www.adaic.org/standards/95lrm_rat/
>
>: In there you will find grammar9x.y and lexer9x.l,
>: which are (simplified) Yacc and Lex grammars for Ada 95.
>
>
>--
>-Tucker Taft   stt@averstar.com   http://www.averstar.com/~stt/
>Technical Director, Distributed IT Solutions  (www.averstar.com/tools)
>AverStar (formerly Intermetrics, Inc.)   Burlington, MA  USA

Re: ADA grammar

[Tom Moran]

>   www.adaic.org/standards/95lrm_rat/

>: In there you will find grammar9x.y and lexer9x.l,
The lexer9x.l does not seem to go with the aflex 1.3a from the
Arcadia project at uci.  Can you suggest a compatible pair, or what
needs to be fixed with one or the other?  (And how about ayacc, also.)

Re: Ada grammar

[tmoran]

There was "A YACC grammar for Ada 9X" posted at Intermetrics.
I have a version usable with ayacc (reserved word tokens changed
to not be reserved words themselves) which I can send.  But look
at www.adapower.com where there is mention of an ayacc/aflex
customized for Gnat - perhaps that has an Ada 95 grammar.  I
also have a version of the UCI ayacc/aflex modified from Ada 83
to Ada 95 if the Gnat version won't work.

Ada grammar

[bradders]

Anyone know where I can get a grammar for Ada 95?
I checked the FAQ and it points to: -

ftp://sw-eng.falls-
church.va.us/public/AdaIC/standards/95lrm_rat/grammar9x.y

This site just has a message telling me that it doesn't have
anything anymore and points me to a web site that also appears
to have no grammar.

Any help appreciated.

Brad

* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!

Re: Ada grammar

[Gautier]

> Anyone know where I can get a grammar for Ada 95?

  http://ftpsearch.lycos.com/cgi-bin/search?form=normal&query=grammar9x

HTH
_____________________________________________
Gautier  --  http://members.xoom.com/gdemont/

Re: Ada grammar

[Ira D. Baxter]

I assume that your intent is to build some kind of parsing engine for some
task.
If thats what you want to do, you might check out the DMS Reengineering
Toolkit,
http://www.semdesigns.com/Products/DMS/DMSToolkit.html.
DMS parses many languages, automatically builds ASTs, can carry out analyses
and transformations on those ASTs, compute new ASTs in other langugaes,
and prettyprint the results.      It already has an Ada95 front end.

I can send slides giving a bigger picture of the tool if you'd like.

Ira Baxter, Ph.D., CTO  idbaxter@semdesigns.com 512-250-1018x140
Semantic Designs, Inc., www.semdesigns.com FAX 512-250-1191
12636 Research Blvd #C214, Austin, Texas 78759


bradders <bradNObrSPAM@england.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:07a73f60.478cecce@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com...
> Anyone know where I can get a grammar for Ada 95?
> I checked the FAQ and it points to: -
>
> ftp://sw-eng.falls-
> church.va.us/public/AdaIC/standards/95lrm_rat/grammar9x.y
>
> This site just has a message telling me that it doesn't have
> anything anymore and points me to a web site that also appears
> to have no grammar.
>
> Any help appreciated.
>
> Brad
>
> * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network
*
> The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
>

Re: Ada grammar

[Robert Dewar]

In article <07a73f60.478cecce@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com>,
  bradders <bradNObrSPAM@england.com.invalid> wrote:
> Anyone know where I can get a grammar for Ada 95?
> I checked the FAQ and it points to: -

It would be interesting to know what you want this
grammar for. If you are building some kind of tool
that deals with Ada, consider using ASIS instead,
it can give you a real jump start over working
from scratch and kludging your way through semantic
issues too complex to do properly in a from-scratch
context.

It is always useful to describe the problem you are
trying to solve, rather than to ask about a particular
solution that may or may not be appropriate.


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Before you buy.

Re: Ada grammar

[bradders]

My company produces a UML based Real-time modelling tool. We
generate and reverse engineer code for C, C++ and Java and soon
we will be supporting Ada 95. Basically I need to be able to
Parse Ada code to build up a symbol table and populate a class
model.

* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!

Re: Ada grammar

[Robert Dewar]

In article <004d942d.2e326cd2@usw-ex0104-026.remarq.com>,
  bradders <bradNObrSPAM@england.com.invalid> wrote:
> My company produces a UML based Real-time modelling tool. We
> generate and reverse engineer code for C, C++ and Java and
soon
> we will be supporting Ada 95. Basically I need to be able to
> Parse Ada code to build up a symbol table and populate a class
> model.


It seems like you would do much better to use ASIS for this
purpose, no?


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

Re: Ada grammar

[Ted Dennison]

In article <8f6cgt$vuq$1@nnrp1.deja.com>,
  Robert Dewar <robert_dewar@my-deja.com> wrote:
> In article <004d942d.2e326cd2@usw-ex0104-026.remarq.com>,
>   bradders <bradNObrSPAM@england.com.invalid> wrote:
> > My company produces a UML based Real-time modelling tool. We
> > generate and reverse engineer code for C, C++ and Java and
> soon
> > we will be supporting Ada 95. Basically I need to be able to
> > Parse Ada code to build up a symbol table and populate a class
> > model.
>
> It seems like you would do much better to use ASIS for this
> purpose, no?

Only if all Ada 95 compilers support that (they don't).

--
T.E.D.

http://www.telepath.com/~dennison/Ted/TED.html


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Before you buy.

Re: Ada grammar

[Ted Dennison]

In article <004d942d.2e326cd2@usw-ex0104-026.remarq.com>,
  bradders <bradNObrSPAM@england.com.invalid> wrote:
> My company produces a UML based Real-time modelling tool. We
> generate and reverse engineer code for C, C++ and Java and soon
> we will be supporting Ada 95. Basically I need to be able to
> Parse Ada code to build up a symbol table and populate a class
> model.

Ahh. So I take it you already have an interface for the other languages
that uses Lex/Yacc grammars, and you are hoping to just plug in an Ada95
Lex/Yacc grammar. That would proably be the cleanest approach in that
circumstance.

The page on this subject at
http://www.adahome.com/Resources/refs/grammar.html says to contact
Tucker Taft if you have questions about the grammar. But AdaHome is a
cobweb, and the email address for Tucker there is old. I believe he's
now at stt@averstar.com . He also hangs out here, so he may just pipe
in.

I'll do a bit of web searching and see what I can come up with. I can't
believe its fallen off the face of the earth.

--
T.E.D.

http://www.telepath.com/~dennison/Ted/TED.html


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Before you buy.

Re: Ada grammar

[baysinger]

Robert,

ASIS would be great,  but not all compiler vendors provide ASIS.  One
of the more popular (at least within Boeing) Ada compilers for
embedded systems does not provide ASIS.  Unless ASIS becomes
universally available, tool vendors will need to providing their own
parsing and analysis capability, or limit their potential customer
base.

On Mon, 08 May 2000 12:38:55 GMT, Robert Dewar
<robert_dewar@my-deja.com> wrote:

>In article <004d942d.2e326cd2@usw-ex0104-026.remarq.com>,
>  bradders <bradNObrSPAM@england.com.invalid> wrote:
>> My company produces a UML based Real-time modelling tool. We
>> generate and reverse engineer code for C, C++ and Java and
>soon
>> we will be supporting Ada 95. Basically I need to be able to
>> Parse Ada code to build up a symbol table and populate a class
>> model.
>
>
>It seems like you would do much better to use ASIS for this
>purpose, no?
>
>
>Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>Before you buy.

Re: Ada grammar

[Samuel T. Harris]

Robert Dewar wrote:
> 
> In article <004d942d.2e326cd2@usw-ex0104-026.remarq.com>,
>   bradders <bradNObrSPAM@england.com.invalid> wrote:
> > My company produces a UML based Real-time modelling tool. We
> > generate and reverse engineer code for C, C++ and Java and
> soon
> > we will be supporting Ada 95. Basically I need to be able to
> > Parse Ada code to build up a symbol table and populate a class
> > model.
> 
> It seems like you would do much better to use ASIS for this
> purpose, no?
> 
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.

I believe when "bradders" considers the complexity
introduced by package rename declarations, he will
quickly deduce that the effort needed to write code
to support the semantic information required to
determine equivalent references to the same object
through various renamed objects will be vastly greater
than the learning curve for ASIS which already
performs this feat, as well as many others,
automagically.

-- 
Samuel T. Harris, Principal Engineer
Raytheon, Aerospace Engineering Services
"If you can make it, We can fake it!"

Re: Ada grammar

[Ted Dennison]

In article <8f6r9r$jqo$1@hobbes2.crc.com>,
  "David C. Hoos, Sr." <david.c.hoos.sr@ada95.com> wrote:
ftp://ftp.fh-mannheim.de/pub/software/languages/ada/docs/standards/95lrm
_rat
> /grammar9x.y
>
> The grammar file is there.

As is the lex syntax. Thanks.

--
T.E.D.

http://www.telepath.com/~dennison/Ted/TED.html


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Before you buy.

Re: Ada grammar

[Robert Dewar]

In article <8f6lem$acm$1@nnrp1.deja.com>,
  Ted Dennison <dennison@telepath.com> wrote:

> Only if all Ada 95 compilers support that (they don't).

Well at this stage most Ada compilers *do* support ASIS. I am
not sure about Greenhills, but certainly ASIS is supported by
Rational, Aonix, and Ada Core Technologies.



Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

Re: Ada grammar

[Ted Dennison]

In article <8f73k1$re7$1@nnrp1.deja.com>,
  Robert Dewar <robert_dewar@my-deja.com> wrote:
> In article <8f6lem$acm$1@nnrp1.deja.com>,
>   Ted Dennison <dennison@telepath.com> wrote:
>
> > Only if all Ada 95 compilers support that (they don't).
>
> Well at this stage most Ada compilers *do* support ASIS. I am
> not sure about Greenhills, but certainly ASIS is supported by
> Rational, Aonix, and Ada Core Technologies.

GreenHills in fact does not. RR Software doesn't mention anything about
supporting it in their product pages. Neither does ICC. DDC-I not only
doesn't mention it, they seem to have their own format for their tools
(ANDF).

--
T.E.D.

http://www.telepath.com/~dennison/Ted/TED.html


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Before you buy.

Re: Ada grammar

[David C. Hoos, Sr.]

Several days ago, Gautier posted a reply to the original message pointing to
http://ftpsearch.lycos.com/cgi-bin/search?form=normal&query=grammar9x

which in turn points to several URLs, one of which is

ftp://ftp.fh-mannheim.de/pub/software/languages/ada/docs/standards/95lrm_rat
/grammar9x.y

The grammar file is there.

bradders <bradNObrSPAM@england.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:004d942d.2e326cd2@usw-ex0104-026.remarq.com...
> My company produces a UML based Real-time modelling tool. We
> generate and reverse engineer code for C, C++ and Java and soon
> we will be supporting Ada 95. Basically I need to be able to
> Parse Ada code to build up a symbol table and populate a class
> model.
>
> * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network
*
> The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
>

Re: Ada grammar

[Tucker Taft]

bradders wrote:
> 
> Anyone know where I can get a grammar for Ada 95?
> I checked the FAQ and it points to: -
> 
> ftp://sw-eng.falls-
> church.va.us/public/AdaIC/standards/95lrm_rat/grammar9x.y
> 
> This site just has a message telling me that it doesn't have
> anything anymore and points me to a web site that also appears
> to have no grammar.
> 
> Any help appreciated.

Try:
    http://www.adaic.org/standards/ada95.html

The AdaIC part of sw-eng.falls-church.va.us site has been 
subsumed by http://www.adaic.org.  Essentially any thing
that used to begin "sw-eng.falls-church.va.us/.../AdaIC/..."
may be found at "www.adaic.org/..." instead.

> 
> Brad

-- 
-Tucker Taft   stt@averstar.com   http://www.averstar.com/~stt/
Technical Director, Commercial Division, AverStar (formerly Intermetrics)
(http://www.averstar.com/services/IT_consulting.html)  Burlington, MA  USA

Re: Ada grammar

[Tucker Taft]

Ted Dennison wrote:
> 
> In article <8f6r9r$jqo$1@hobbes2.crc.com>,
>   "David C. Hoos, Sr." <david.c.hoos.sr@ada95.com> wrote:
> ftp://ftp.fh-mannheim.de/pub/software/languages/ada/docs/standards/95lrm
> _rat
> > /grammar9x.y
> >
> > The grammar file is there.
> 
> As is the lex syntax. Thanks.

Both the lex and yacc are on adaic.org, as mentioned in another response:

lex:  http://www.adaic.org/standards/95lrm_rat/lexer9x.l
yacc: http://www.adaic.org/standards/95lrm_rat/grammar9x.y

These and other useful links:  http://www.adaic.org/standards/ada95.html

> 
> --
> T.E.D.
> 
> http://www.telepath.com/~dennison/Ted/TED.html
-- 
-Tucker Taft   stt@averstar.com   http://www.averstar.com/~stt/
Technical Director, Commercial Division, AverStar (formerly Intermetrics)
(http://www.averstar.com/services/IT_consulting.html)  Burlington, MA  USA

Re: Ada grammar

[Samuel T. Harris]

Pascal Obry wrote:
> 
> Ted Dennison <dennison@telepath.com> a écrit dans le message :
> 8f6lem$acm$1@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > In article <8f6cgt$vuq$1@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> >   Robert Dewar <robert_dewar@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > > In article <004d942d.2e326cd2@usw-ex0104-026.remarq.com>,
> > >   bradders <bradNObrSPAM@england.com.invalid> wrote:
> > > > My company produces a UML based Real-time modelling tool. We
> > > > generate and reverse engineer code for C, C++ and Java and
> > > soon
> > > > we will be supporting Ada 95. Basically I need to be able to
> > > > Parse Ada code to build up a symbol table and populate a class
> > > > model.
> > >
> > > It seems like you would do much better to use ASIS for this
> > > purpose, no?
> >
> > Only if all Ada 95 compilers support that (they don't).
> >
> 
> Sure but ASIS has been designed for that! If more tools were based on ASIS
> it will put the pressure on Ada compiler writers to offer a decent ASIS
> layer :)

ASIS based tools which I have put together to support our
work efforts are becoming so valuable to our development
efforts that ASIS is a stringent requirement for any
development compiler under consideration.

One also must consider that the requirements for a development
environment are separate from the requirements for a target
compiler. A development environment needs many bells and
whistles for aid the developer where-as a target compiler
need only produce efficient code in a reasonable amount
of time with adequate debugging support.

Here, our development environment is Rational Apex and
our target compiler is VADS. I only need ASIS for Apex.
I don't need it for VADS.

Indeed, I used to work on a project using a Rational R1000
for development and two separate target compilers (Alsys
for PCs and VADS for ATT 3B2s).

So, if your target compilers does not support ASIS, then
why not bring in one which does. Since GNAT with ASIS can
be used at no cost, it seems an appropriate vehicle to
gain the ASIS support you need. Once you get used to the
delineation between development work and target work then
it really is not the problem such a separation may appear
to involve.

> 
> Pascal.
> 

-- 
Samuel T. Harris, Principal Engineer
Raytheon, Aerospace Engineering Services
"If you can make it, We can fake it!"

Re: Ada grammar

[Ray Blaak]

bradders <bradNObrSPAM@england.com.invalid> writes:
> My company produces a UML based Real-time modelling tool. We
> generate and reverse engineer code for C, C++ and Java and soon
> we will be supporting Ada 95. Basically I need to be able to
> Parse Ada code to build up a symbol table and populate a class
> model.

Everyone is telling you to use ASIS, but I think you should go for it and parse
the sources directly. I have written both Ada parsers and UML reverse
engineering tools, and in my opinion things are a lot more manageable if your
tool does not require an ASIS-compliant Ada compiler to be installed.  Your
tool is more stand-alone and can work anywhere with a minimum of fuss (no
configuration issues to interface to a client's existing Ada compiler) if it
has minimal external dependencies.

Certainly if one is reverse engineering Ada code, there is bound to be an Ada
compiler nearby, but that is not reason enough to require it. A designer
playing with a UML model is not necessarily the same person as the programmer
compiling the Ada program.

The main reasons you want your own parser are:

- For design purposes you are interested a subset of the language and so can
  cut corners when parsing the uninteresting stuff (e.g. perhaps parsing
  routine bodies just enough to find the correct "end" token, but otherwise
  ignoring statements).

- You can do tricks that a normal parser cannot do, like play games with
  whitespace, reconstructing comments, etc. (How good is ASIS at getting
  perfect reconstruction of the source)?

- Even if ASIS is "perfect" with regards to giving access to absolutely every
  character of the source, having your own parser gives you the freedom to
  tailor your parsing to fit the design of your tool, so you can get access to
  the desired source information in the most natural way.

  Consider, for example, that your tool might require all sources of a project
  to be loaded simultaneously (i.e. if one is doing "interactive"
  forward/reverse engineering from UML to code and vice versa). With your own
  parser and parse trees you can optimize things to reduce space cost
  (e.g. loading on the fly, indirect token references to the source file
  instead of actually having contents in memory, etc.).

  This freedom of design is *the* reason to write your own parser.

An Ada parser is non-trivial, but its not *that* hard. Tedious maybe, but not
hard. The benefits are worth it, in my opinion, for a tool such as you are
describing.

-- 
Cheers,                                        The Rhythm is around me,
                                               The Rhythm has control.
Ray Blaak                                      The Rhythm is inside me,
blaak@infomatch.com                            The Rhythm has my soul.

Re: Ada grammar

[Pascal Obry]

[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1684 bytes --]


Ted Dennison <dennison@telepath.com> a �crit dans le message :
8f6lem$acm$1@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <8f6cgt$vuq$1@nnrp1.deja.com>,
>   Robert Dewar <robert_dewar@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > In article <004d942d.2e326cd2@usw-ex0104-026.remarq.com>,
> >   bradders <bradNObrSPAM@england.com.invalid> wrote:
> > > My company produces a UML based Real-time modelling tool. We
> > > generate and reverse engineer code for C, C++ and Java and
> > soon
> > > we will be supporting Ada 95. Basically I need to be able to
> > > Parse Ada code to build up a symbol table and populate a class
> > > model.
> >
> > It seems like you would do much better to use ASIS for this
> > purpose, no?
>
> Only if all Ada 95 compilers support that (they don't).
>

Sure but ASIS has been designed for that! If more tools were based on ASIS
it will put the pressure on Ada compiler writers to offer a decent ASIS
layer :)

Pascal.

--

--|------------------------------------------------------------
--| Pascal Obry                               Team-Ada Member |
--|                                                           |
--| EDF-DER-IPN-SID- T T I                                    |
--|                       Intranet: http://cln46gb            |
--| Bureau N-023            e-mail: p.obry@der.edf.fr         |
--| 1 Av G�n�ral de Gaulle  voice : +33-1-47.65.50.91         |
--| 92141 Clamart CEDEX     fax   : +33-1-47.65.50.07         |
--| FRANCE                                                    |
--|------------------------------------------------------------
--|
--|         http://perso.wanadoo.fr/pascal.obry
--|
--|   "The best way to travel is by means of imagination"

Re: Ada grammar

[Ira D. Baxter]

Ray Blaak <blaak@infomatch.com> wrote in message
news:m366sn2h95.fsf@ns55.infomatch.bc.ca...
> bradders <bradNObrSPAM@england.com.invalid> writes:
> >  I need to be able to Parse Ada code ...
>
> Everyone is telling you to use ASIS, but I think you should go for it and
parse
> the sources directly.

> Certainly if one is reverse engineering Ada code, there is bound to be an
Ada
> compiler nearby, but that is not reason enough to require it.

> The main reasons you want your own parser are:
>
> - You can do tricks that a normal parser cannot do, like play games with
>   whitespace, reconstructing comments, etc. (How good is ASIS at getting
>   perfect reconstruction of the source)?
>
>   Consider, for example, that your tool might require all sources of a
project
>   to be loaded simultaneously (i.e. if one is doing "interactive"
>   forward/reverse engineering from UML to code and vice versa). With your
own
>   parser and parse trees you can optimize things to reduce space cost
>   (e.g. loading on the fly, indirect token references to the source file
>   instead of actually having contents in memory, etc.).

The DMS Reengineering Toolkit has an Ada95 parser automatically builds
compact ASTs that captures whitespace and comments
"perfectly", and has built in prettyprinters for arbitrary reformatting and
"fidelity printing", reproducing the original layout, or a mixture of the
two.
It can apply source-to-source transforms directly to the tree.

The ASTs are cache-line aligned, typically occupy one cache-line per node,
eliminate non-value bearing tokens and useless unit-reductions eliminated,
list nodes for sequences, etc.)
While we have not done this for Ada, we have read 3500 Java files (some 1.1
million lines)
into a 1Gb address space under Windows/NT for analysis, and similar scale
sources in COBOL, and don't see any reason why DMS can't do the same for
large Ada suites.

See http://www.semdesigns.com/Products/DMS/DMSToolkit.html.


--
Ira Baxter, Ph.D., CTO  idbaxter@semdesigns.com 512-250-1018x140
Semantic Designs, Inc., www.semdesigns.com FAX 512-250-1191
12636 Research Blvd #C214, Austin, Texas 78759

Re: Ada grammar

[Ken Garlington]

"Geoff Bull" <gbull@acenet.com.au> wrote in message
news:3919D285.E046DC9F@acenet.com.au...
> I can't see why they would have to use the clients compiler.
> Couldn't they just bundle gnat with their application?

Depends upon whether GNAT is available on their host platform, of course.

Re: Ada grammar

[Geoff Bull]

Ray Blaak wrote:
>  things are a lot more manageable if your
> tool does not require an ASIS-compliant Ada compiler to be installed.  Your
> tool is more stand-alone and can work anywhere with a minimum of fuss (no
> configuration issues to interface to a client's existing Ada compiler) if it
> has minimal external dependencies.


I can't see why they would have to use the clients compiler.
Couldn't they just bundle gnat with their application?

IMO, building a parser from the ground up, especially with lex/yacc,
is plain silly.

Re: Ada grammar

[dale]

Ken Garlington wrote:

> "Geoff Bull" <gbull@acenet.com.au> wrote in message
> news:3919D285.E046DC9F@acenet.com.au...
> > I can't see why they would have to use the clients compiler.
> > Couldn't they just bundle gnat with their application?
> 
> Depends upon whether GNAT is available on their host platform, of course.


For source code analysis, surely it would be cheaper to buy a computer
that Gnat is available for, copy the source code across, and analyse
it there using an ASIS based tool.

Computers are extremely cheap, source based analysis tools built without 
the help of ASIS (i would contend) will never be.


Dale

Re: Ada grammar

[Ken Garlington]

"dale" <dale@cs.rmit.edu.au> wrote in message
news:dale-221B36.10311111052000@news.rmit.edu.au...
> For source code analysis, surely it would be cheaper to buy a computer
> that Gnat is available for, copy the source code across, and analyse
> it there using an ASIS based tool.
>
> Computers are extremely cheap, source based analysis tools built without
> the help of ASIS (i would contend) will never be.

An extensive analysis tool, perhaps; a simple syntax checker (which I
believe was the suggested application) might not be so expensive. I
certainly written simple parsers for applications like pretty-printers
without much effort, and without using ASIS.

It also depends upon how many users there will be for the tool; whether
there are issues that limit the networking (or other transfer of files)
between different computer systems; and whether there are business issues
related to purchasing hardware (for example, some companies limit the
allowed configurations, so the computers might not be as cheap as you
think!).

Re: Ada grammar

[Ray Blaak]

Geoff Bull <gbull@acenet.com.au> writes:
> I can't see why they would have to use the clients compiler.
> Couldn't they just bundle gnat with their application?

Assuming the product is a commercial one, is one even allowed to do this under
copyleft? I suppose that one can make gnat separately available on the same
website or CD.

The main problem, though, is one of ease of use/installation. For a commerical
product, one would presumably have a trial version on a website somewhere. It
is a lot easier and attractive to clients to be able to download a single
reasonably-sized installable and run it with just a few mouse clicks. Gnat is
pretty big, and its installation is not completely trivial.

Furthermore, most of the machinery of gnat would not be needed by a reverse
eningeering tool.

> IMO, building a parser from the ground up, especially with lex/yacc,
> is plain silly.

It would be silly to not make use of existing resources as opposed to writing
a parser from scratch. But it is definitely reasonable to try to have a parsing
component that fits the design of the tool that is using it, even if that
means custom development.

I am speaking from experience here. I once worked on a very related product
that needed to reverse engineer Java code. The parser was a third-party tool,
used precisely to save on the effort of developing one from scratch. It also
was the major source of bugs, not because of errors in the parser
implementation, but because its design did not fit well with the needs of the
tool that was using it. We ended up writing a Java parser from scratch anyways
so as to have complete control over how information was extracted from the
source files.

Once you have done a number of parsers for a number of languages, writing
another one is less of a daunting task than one would think.  Note too, that
there are better technologies than lex/yacc that are more powerful, allowing
for grammars that are easier to write and faster development times.

If you want a challenging task, try writing a Delphi parser sometime. The
quirks and irregularities of that language make the grammars interesting to
say the least. Ada's grammar is a joy by comparison. Of course, Ada's
overloading and renaming abilities present its own difficulties during
analysis.

-- 
Cheers,                                        The Rhythm is around me,
                                               The Rhythm has control.
Ray Blaak                                      The Rhythm is inside me,
blaak@infomatch.com                            The Rhythm has my soul.

Re: Ada grammar

[Ted Dennison]

In article <uzopxgj6j.fsf@infomatch.com>,
  Ray Blaak <blaak@infomatch.com> wrote:
> Geoff Bull <gbull@acenet.com.au> writes:
> > I can't see why they would have to use the clients compiler.
> > Couldn't they just bundle gnat with their application?
>
> Assuming the product is a commercial one, is one even allowed to do
> this under copyleft? I suppose that one can make gnat separately
> available on the same website or CD.

Sure, as long as they somehow allow access to Gnat's sources. The only
way they could possibly run into trouble would be by making
modifications to the compiler itself, and refusing to provide the
sources for the modifications.


--
T.E.D.

http://www.telepath.com/~dennison/Ted/TED.html


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Re: Ada grammar

[Robert A Duff]

Geoff Bull <gbull@acenet.com.au> writes:

> But I would argue that the instalation IS completely trivial.
> (especially since the user of such a tool can be expected to
>  have a reasonable level of competency).

Hmm.  If it's so trivial, why do we see so many questions on this ng
about how to do it?  (Followed by the inevitable admonishment to follow
the instructions.)

- Bob

Re: Ada grammar

[Ray Blaak]

Geoff Bull <gbull@acenet.com.au> writes:
> I don't see how you can extend this experience to reject the use 
> of ASIS out of hand. ASIS was specifically designed for tools
> such as the originally poster had in mind.

It is not that I am rejecting ASIS so much as defending the position that
writing a custom parser is not unreasonable, especially for a tool that
already has parse engines for other languages and wants to add a new language
parser with minimal impact.

I actually like the idea of ASIS. My knowledge of it is about 8 years out of
date though. Some questions:

01. What is the interface to it? I was understanding it was a collection of
Ada packages. Are there foreign-language bindings to it? I am guessing, for
example that the original poster's reverse engineering tool is not written in
Ada. 

02. Is perfect source reconstruction possible? At the Tri-Ada'92 session I
attended, this was still an eventual goal.

-- 
Cheers,                                        The Rhythm is around me,
                                               The Rhythm has control.
Ray Blaak                                      The Rhythm is inside me,
blaak@infomatch.com                            The Rhythm has my soul.

Re: Ada grammar

[Samuel T. Harris]

Ray Blaak wrote:
> 
> Geoff Bull <gbull@acenet.com.au> writes:
> > I don't see how you can extend this experience to reject the use
> > of ASIS out of hand. ASIS was specifically designed for tools
> > such as the originally poster had in mind.
> 
> It is not that I am rejecting ASIS so much as defending the position that
> writing a custom parser is not unreasonable, especially for a tool that
> already has parse engines for other languages and wants to add a new language
> parser with minimal impact.
> 
> I actually like the idea of ASIS. My knowledge of it is about 8 years out of
> date though. Some questions:
> 
> 01. What is the interface to it? I was understanding it was a collection of
> Ada packages. Are there foreign-language bindings to it? I am guessing, for
> example that the original poster's reverse engineering tool is not written in
> Ada.

The interface is a collection of packages which provide semantic
queries concerning a particular element of code as well as traversal
routines to move up and down the semantic tree and iterators to
cover all elements in a tree.

Interfacing ASIS to foreign languages is the same problem as interfacing
any Ada package to a foreign language. You can either process the data
in Ada and provide the expected data to the reverse engineering tool
or wrap up ASIS with another layer providing exports for the needed
queries. I believe the first option is usually easier.

> 
> 02. Is perfect source reconstruction possible? At the Tri-Ada'92 session I
> attended, this was still an eventual goal.

There are ASIS queries to get the original text file from which
the unit was compiled, the span of text an particular semantic
element within that text file, and the actual text of that element.
These queries are optional and their is a test to see if these
facilities are supported by a particular ASIS implementation.
White space and blank lines can be inferred from the holes.
I don't know about spaces on the end of a line.

> 
> --
> Cheers,                                        The Rhythm is around me,
>                                                The Rhythm has control.
> Ray Blaak                                      The Rhythm is inside me,
> blaak@infomatch.com                            The Rhythm has my soul.

DISCLAIMER: My replies above are limited to my extensive
experience with ASIS for Ada 83 as implemented by Rational Apex.
I have looked at GNAT's implementation of ASIS for Ada 95
and see that there are some differences but most of what I have
seen is nearly identical to what I am used to.

-- 
Samuel T. Harris, Principal Engineer
Raytheon, Aerospace Engineering Services
"If you can make it, We can fake it!"

Re: Ada grammar

[Geoff Bull]

Ray Blaak wrote:
> 
> Geoff Bull <gbull@acenet.com.au> writes:
> > I can't see why they would have to use the clients compiler.
> > Couldn't they just bundle gnat with their application?
> 
> Assuming the product is a commercial one, is one even allowed to do this under
> copyleft?

So long as you don't try to hoard any modifications to gnat.
The GPL is fairly easy to read.

> Gnat is  pretty big, and its installation is not completely trivial.

Ok, it is big.
But I would argue that the instalation IS completely trivial.
(especially since the user of such a tool can be expected to
 have a reasonable level of competency).


> The parser was a third-party tool,
> used precisely to save on the effort of developing one from scratch. It also
> was the major source of bugs, not because of errors in the parser
> implementation, but because its design did not fit well with the needs of the
> tool that was using it. 
> We ended up writing a Java parser from scratch anyways
> so as to have complete control over how information was extracted from the
> source files.

I don't see how you can extend this experience to reject the use 
of ASIS out of hand. ASIS was specifically designed for tools
such as the originally poster had in mind.

> 
> Once you have done a number of parsers for a number of languages, 
> writing another one is less of a daunting task than one would think.

I wrote a VHDL parser and I have had a good look at the gnat source.
I still find the idea of writing an Ada parser daunting.

> Note too, that there are better technologies than lex/yacc that 
> are more powerful, allowing for grammars that are easier to write
> and faster development times.

It is beyond me why people use lex for other than quick and dirty jobs,
writing custom lexers is so easy (and they are sooo much faster!)


> If you want a challenging task, try writing a Delphi parser sometime. The
> quirks and irregularities of that language make the grammars interesting to
> say the least. 
This is especially daunting since , TMK, Delphi's grammar is not
formally defined and changes at the whim of the owner's of that
language (as does the name of their company!).

Re: Ada grammar

[Robert Dewar]

In article <YlmS4.10737$wb7.927150@news.flash.net>,
  "Ken Garlington" <Ken.Garlington@computer.org> wrote:

> Depends upon whether GNAT is available on their host platform,
> of course.

Well there are not many general purpose platforms on which Ada
95 support is available and no GNAT port is available. Yes yes,
we know Ken wants an Ada 95 compiler for his ancient Vaxes :-)
but I would hardly call Vax a general purpose platform at this
stage, so bundling GNAT would work, though in practice the
concern would be here that you would have to make a choice
between bundling the supported version of GNAT, which would
add to the costs for a non-GNAT user, or the unsupported
public version, which would mean that your tool was dependent
on a rather large chunk (hundreds of thousands of lines) of
unsupported software.

The use of ASIS for such tools has clear plusses and minuses

The plus is that you have FAR more information (overloading,
entity relationships in general, data layout etc) potentially
available to you.

The minus is that you do indeed end up being pretty tied to
a particular ASIS technology. Yes, you can build your tool
with several different versions of ASIS, but this is at least
as hard as building your tool with different compilers, and
means in practice distributing multiple versions of the tool
in binary, or having people do non-trivial builds from source.

Really you have to look at a given tool and see if the plus
outweighs the minus for the particular tool requirements.




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Re: Ada grammar

[Robert Dewar]

In article <8fepn4$dta$1@nnrp1.deja.com>,
  Ted Dennison <dennison@telepath.com> wrote:

> Sure, as long as they somehow allow access to Gnat's sources.
> The only way they could possibly run into trouble would be by
> making modifications to the compiler itself, and refusing to
> provide the sources for the modifications.

Ted is saying this without knowing NEARLY enough about how ASIS
works to justify the above opinion.

Indeed it is the case for GNAT that *any* ASIS application is
very definitely a deriviative work of GNAT, since an ASIS
application consists of a program that is aggregated from
tool units, ASIS units, and GNAT compiler units.

If the units of the GNAT compiler were licensed under the
pure GPL, which most units are, then Ted's advice above
would be seriously incorrect. This is a good object lesson
in carefully checking licenses for yourself. You often find
advice on CLA that is definitely NOT properly researched :-)

However, the good news is that, as a result of quite deliberate
Ada Core Technologies policy, we have arranged that those
specific compiler units that are used by ASIS have the modified
GPL. Why? Precisely to allow proprietary tools to be constructed
using the ASIS interface. In fact we consider ASIS to be a good
definition of a reasonable division between the proprietary
and non-proprietary free software worlds when it comes to
the use of GNAT.

So the ultimate conclusion that Ted reaches is correct, though
the reasoning was faulty :-)

Robert Dewar
Ada Core Technologies


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Re: Ada grammar

[Robert Dewar]

In article <wcc4s836aon.fsf@world.std.com>,
  Robert A Duff <bobduff@world.std.com> wrote:

> Hmm.  If it's so trivial, why do we see so many questions on
> this ng about how to do it?  (Followed by the inevitable
> admonishment to follow the instructions.)

It is NOT easy to install GNAT if you fail to read and follow
the installation instructions. Most of the questions on
the ng about GNAT installation result from not following
the instructions carefully. Other questions result from
trying to install from incomplete distributions (quite
often the documentation gets separated and not passed on
for example).

If you want to install GNAT, be *sure* to read the
documentation! We do not consider computers to be
self-documenting :-) Knowldge of english and a willingness
to read are a prerequesite for installing and using GNAT.

Ada Core Technologies


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Re: Ada grammar

[bradders]

Many thanks to everyone who replied and offered their advice.
I've remained quiet up 'til now as a lot of information has been
flying about and I'm trying to take it all in. The first point
to make is that I have already written commercial parsers for C,
C++, Java, Delphi and Powerbuilder so I know what I'm doing and
Ada doesn't scare me ;-)(yet)

Ada will definately bring it's own challenges but at least
there's no preprocessor (C++'s biggest problem).

I think someone said it was pointless to write something that
reverse engineered pure Ada into UML (or words to that or
similar effect). Well, it's not pointless for people that want
to use our UML tool to generate and reverse engineer Ada. It
doesn't matter that there's some tool already available that
will analyse Ada code. That's of no use to our customers at all.

The question then, it seems, is do I deal with pure Ada or use
ASIS? The answer to that will come from our sales and marketing
group. I shall send them a transcript of the last 34 messages
and  let them fight it out!

Many thanks for all your help
Brad

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Re: Ada grammar

[Robert A Duff]

bradders <bradNObrSPAM@england.com.invalid> writes:

> Many thanks to everyone who replied and offered their advice.
> I've remained quiet up 'til now as a lot of information has been
> flying about and I'm trying to take it all in. The first point
> to make is that I have already written commercial parsers for C,
> C++, Java, Delphi and Powerbuilder so I know what I'm doing and
> Ada doesn't scare me ;-)(yet)

An Ada parser isn't all that hard.  It's probably easier than C (because
of the typedef problem), but harder than Pascal.  So long as you don't
need to do name resolution, that is -- just parsing.

- Bob