* Ethics & Isaac Asimov @ 1999-01-20 0:00 G.M. Wallace 1999-01-20 0:00 ` Tom Moran 1999-01-20 0:00 ` Carl Bauman 0 siblings, 2 replies; 7+ messages in thread From: G.M. Wallace @ 1999-01-20 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Does military software/hardware violate one or more of these laws of robotics ? ################################################################ 1. A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm. 2. A robot must obey the orders given it by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law. 3. A robot must protect its own existence, as long as such protection does not conflict with either the First or the Second Law. ################################################################# -GMW. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: Ethics & Isaac Asimov 1999-01-20 0:00 Ethics & Isaac Asimov G.M. Wallace @ 1999-01-20 0:00 ` Tom Moran 1999-01-20 0:00 ` Marin David Condic 1999-01-20 0:00 ` Carl Bauman 1 sibling, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread From: Tom Moran @ 1999-01-20 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) If a thrown stone is allowed as a (particularly dumb) robot, then it surely may violate the first law, and the laws of physics may cause it to violate the human's *intent* in the second law (though we in computers have lots of experience with the difference between following a human's orders literally vs doing what he wanted). The stone generally tries, to the best of its ability, not to violate the second law. The same applies of course to other things (General Patton's car caused his death). As to software, I suppose a copy of Pagemaker used to make a recruiting poster might eventually cause harm to a human, so, being very generous about interpreting words like "cause", software also can violate the first law. Same as above re the second law, and software usually tries even less hard to obey the third law. Perhaps Asimov's laws need a little work. ;) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: Ethics & Isaac Asimov 1999-01-20 0:00 ` Tom Moran @ 1999-01-20 0:00 ` Marin David Condic 1999-01-20 0:00 ` Larry Elmore 1999-01-21 0:00 ` robert_dewar 0 siblings, 2 replies; 7+ messages in thread From: Marin David Condic @ 1999-01-20 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Talk about drifting off topic! ;-) Asimov's laws are, of course, based on the assumption that machines "think", have "identity" and can make moral decisions. This is, at best, wishful thinking. It's a machine. You can't bargain with it or reason with it. It doesn't feel pity or remorse... (place those lines if you can! ;-) You can lead a computer to data, but you can't make it think. And besides, who elected Asimov to be chief legislator of Robotic Law? And who's he going to get to enforce that Robotic Law if I decide to build robots willing to ignore the law and wage war against his pacifist robots? Game over, man! (Tongue firmly planted in cheek...) MDC Tom Moran wrote: > > If a thrown stone is allowed as a (particularly dumb) robot, then it > surely may violate the first law, and the laws of physics may cause it > to violate the human's *intent* in the second law (though we in > computers have lots of experience with the difference between > following a human's orders literally vs doing what he wanted). The > stone generally tries, to the best of its ability, not to violate the > second law. The same applies of course to other things (General > Patton's car caused his death). > As to software, I suppose a copy of Pagemaker used to make a > recruiting poster might eventually cause harm to a human, so, being > very generous about interpreting words like "cause", software also can > violate the first law. Same as above re the second law, and software > usually tries even less hard to obey the third law. > Perhaps Asimov's laws need a little work. ;) -- Marin David Condic Real Time & Embedded Systems, Propulsion Systems Analysis United Technologies, Pratt & Whitney, Large Military Engines M/S 731-95, P.O.B. 109600, West Palm Beach, FL, 33410-9600 Ph: 561.796.8997 Fx: 561.796.4669 ***To reply, remove "bogon" from the domain name.*** "Airplanes are interesting toys but of no military value." -- Marechal Ferdinand Foch, Professor of Strategy, Ecole Superieure de Guerre. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: Ethics & Isaac Asimov 1999-01-20 0:00 ` Marin David Condic @ 1999-01-20 0:00 ` Larry Elmore 1999-01-20 0:00 ` Marin David Condic 1999-01-21 0:00 ` robert_dewar 1 sibling, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread From: Larry Elmore @ 1999-01-20 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Marin David Condic wrote in message <36A605FA.818C9328@pwfl.com>... >Talk about drifting off topic! ;-) > >Asimov's laws are, of course, based on the assumption that machines >"think", have "identity" and can make moral decisions. This is, at best, >wishful thinking. It's a machine. You can't bargain with it or reason >with it. It doesn't feel pity or remorse... (place those lines if you >can! ;-) You can lead a computer to data, but you can't make it think. > >And besides, who elected Asimov to be chief legislator of Robotic Law? >And who's he going to get to enforce that Robotic Law if I decide to >build robots willing to ignore the law and wage war against his pacifist >robots? Game over, man! (Tongue firmly planted in cheek...) But there's nothing in Asimov's Laws saying that robots are pacifistic! Only that they can't harm people. They can certainly defend themselves against non-human threats (see 3rd "Law") unless ordered not to do so. They can even defend humans from other humans, if it's possible in a non-harmful manner. > "Airplanes are interesting toys but of no military value." > > -- Marechal Ferdinand Foch, Professor of Strategy, Ecole >Superieure > de Guerre. IIRC, he was Colonel Foch when he made this statement. He only became a Marshal of France well after the start of WWI, didn't he? Larry ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: Ethics & Isaac Asimov 1999-01-20 0:00 ` Larry Elmore @ 1999-01-20 0:00 ` Marin David Condic 0 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread From: Marin David Condic @ 1999-01-20 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Larry Elmore wrote: > > "Airplanes are interesting toys but of no military value." > > > > -- Marechal Ferdinand Foch, Professor of Strategy, Ecole > >Superieure > > de Guerre. > > IIRC, he was Colonel Foch when he made this statement. He only became a > Marshal of France well after the start of WWI, didn't he? > You've got me there. The quote was given to me to add to my long collection of quotes and I simply took it for granted that it was accurately attributed. I have little knowledge of French military history. MDC -- Marin David Condic Real Time & Embedded Systems, Propulsion Systems Analysis United Technologies, Pratt & Whitney, Large Military Engines M/S 731-95, P.O.B. 109600, West Palm Beach, FL, 33410-9600 Ph: 561.796.8997 Fx: 561.796.4669 ***To reply, remove "bogon" from the domain name.*** "Airplanes are interesting toys but of no military value." -- Marechal Ferdinand Foch, Professor of Strategy, Ecole Superieure de Guerre. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: Ethics & Isaac Asimov 1999-01-20 0:00 ` Marin David Condic 1999-01-20 0:00 ` Larry Elmore @ 1999-01-21 0:00 ` robert_dewar 1 sibling, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread From: robert_dewar @ 1999-01-21 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <36A605FA.818C9328@pwfl.com>, diespammer@pwfl.com wrote: > Talk about drifting off topic! ;-) Oh dear, it looks like this will end up being another successful troll on comp.lang.ada. Please move this to some more appropriate group. Yes, yes, I know, messages like this never work, oh well ... -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: Ethics & Isaac Asimov 1999-01-20 0:00 Ethics & Isaac Asimov G.M. Wallace 1999-01-20 0:00 ` Tom Moran @ 1999-01-20 0:00 ` Carl Bauman 1 sibling, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread From: Carl Bauman @ 1999-01-20 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) G.M. Wallace wrote in message <36A56985.1B891566@interact.net.au>... | |Does military software/hardware violate one or more of these laws of |robotics ? ... snip ... 1. Military (soft/hard)ware does not come anywhere close to being a robot, so the "three laws of robotics", should they ever be implemented, doesn't apply. 2. Since the reason for this (soft/hard)ware's existence is to cause harm and destruction, it is counter-productive to try to apply them. BTW, including the "zeroth" law of robotics, there are 4 laws. :-> -CB ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~1999-01-21 0:00 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 7+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 1999-01-20 0:00 Ethics & Isaac Asimov G.M. Wallace 1999-01-20 0:00 ` Tom Moran 1999-01-20 0:00 ` Marin David Condic 1999-01-20 0:00 ` Larry Elmore 1999-01-20 0:00 ` Marin David Condic 1999-01-21 0:00 ` robert_dewar 1999-01-20 0:00 ` Carl Bauman
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox