Much 16 bit Ada useage?

Much 16 bit Ada useage?

[Mike Silva]

Question from a non-Ada (but curious) type: is there much use of Ada in
the 16 bit world?  My specific interest (today) is the Siemens C167, but
I don't want to limit the question to that chip.  I'm asking because
I've only run across references to 32 bit chips so far.  Thanks.

Mike

Re: Much 16 bit Ada useage?

[Niklas Holsti]

John McCabe wrote:
> 
> Mike Silva <mjsilva@jps.net> wrote:
> >Question from a non-Ada (but curious) type: is there much use of Ada in
> >the 16 bit world?  My specific interest (today) is the Siemens C167, but
> >I don't want to limit the question to that chip.  I'm asking because
> >I've only run across references to 32 bit chips so far.  Thanks.
> 
> There is fairly significant use of Ada on projects using MIL-STD-1750A
> 16-bit processors such as the GPS MA31750, PACE1750A etc. The European
> Space Agency's Envisat program has the MA31750 listed as the recommended
> microprocessor, and Ada (from TLD :-( has been mandated for it.

Just a note that several other ESA satellites use the MA31750,
including XMM (X-ray science), INTEGRAL (gamma-ray science), MetOp
(operational meteorology), ROSETTA (probe to comet Wirtanen),
and no doubt others as well.

However, it seems that the European production of the MA31750 will
stop, so new projects are likely to use the European and space
qualified implementations of the SPARC (ERC-32) or the ADI 21020
DSP. (A port of GNAT for the latter would be nice. Does it exist?)

Niklas Holsti

Re: Much 16 bit Ada useage?

[John McCabe]

Mike Silva <mjsilva@jps.net> wrote:
>Question from a non-Ada (but curious) type: is there much use of Ada in
>the 16 bit world?  My specific interest (today) is the Siemens C167, but
>I don't want to limit the question to that chip.  I'm asking because
>I've only run across references to 32 bit chips so far.  Thanks.

There is fairly significant use of Ada on projects using MIL-STD-1750A  
16-bit processors such as the GPS MA31750, PACE1750A etc. The European 
Space Agency's Envisat program has the MA31750 listed as the recommended 
microprocessor, and Ada (from TLD :-( has been mandated for it. Also I 
believe Lockheed are using Tartan (TI) Ada for the MIL-STD-1750A on the 
F22 program (or something like that).

-- 
Best Regards
John McCabe
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Marconi Electronic Systems
Simulation & Training Division
=====================================================================
Not necessarily my company or service providers opinions.
=====================================================================

Re: Much 16 bit Ada useage?

[John McCabe]

Niklas Holsti <nholsti@icon.fi> wrote:
>John McCabe wrote:
>> 
>> Mike Silva <mjsilva@jps.net> wrote:
>> >Question from a non-Ada (but curious) type: is there much use of Ada
>> >in the 16 bit world?  My specific interest (today) is the Siemens
>> >C167, but I don't want to limit the question to that chip.  I'm
>> >asking because I've only run across references to 32 bit chips so
>> >far.  Thanks.
>> 
>> There is fairly significant use of Ada on projects using MIL-STD-1750A
>> 16-bit processors such as the GPS MA31750, PACE1750A etc. The European
>> Space Agency's Envisat program has the MA31750 listed as the 
>> recommended microprocessor, and Ada (from TLD :-( has been mandated
>> for it.

>Just a note that several other ESA satellites use the MA31750,
>including XMM (X-ray science), INTEGRAL (gamma-ray science), MetOp
>(operational meteorology), ROSETTA (probe to comet Wirtanen),
>and no doubt others as well.

Thank you for that. It is now over a year since I left the european space 
industry and I kind of lost touch with what was going on.

>However, it seems that the European production of the MA31750 will
>stop,

That is correct. In actual fact I thought it had already happened. GPS, 
manufacturers of the MA31750 were sold off to Mitel of the US in February 
this year, and I can't see them continuing with the MA31750. There was 
talk about GPS producing a space qualified ARM processor, but I don't 
know what happened to that.

>so new projects are likely to use the European and space
>qualified implementations of the SPARC (ERC-32) or the ADI 21020
>DSP. (A port of GNAT for the latter would be nice. Does it exist?)

I don't know if it exists, but Tartan were working on Ada for the SHARC 
(AD 21060) before being bought by TI, so I don't know what's happened to 
that.

I can still see a market for 16-bit processors in space applications, and 
I'm sure they'll be supported by Ada compiler - although maybe not Ada95. 
One of the last jobs I worked on used the MA31750 because of its low 
power consumption and size, the availability of Ada (83) compilers, and 
the fact that you didn't need a lot of support circuitry. 

The problem with ERC-32 is that it's a multi-chip affair which uses 
masses of power. With the 21020 it has a form of Harvard architecture 
with quite wide address and data busses so could end up using a lot of 
real estate.


-- 
Best Regards
John McCabe
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Marconi Electronic Systems
Simulation & Training Division
=====================================================================
Not necessarily my company or service providers opinions.
=====================================================================

Re: Much 16 bit Ada useage?

[Tucker Taft]

John McCabe (john@assen.demon.co.uk) wrote:

: ...
: I don't know if it exists, but Tartan were working on Ada for the SHARC 
: (AD 21060) before being bought by TI, so I don't know what's happened to 
: that.

Intermetrics took over the SHARC Ada contract when TI bought Tartan.  A beta
version of the product is now available from ADI (lori.berenson@analog.com).

However, the SHARC is definitely not a 16-bit processor.  It is 32-bit
through and through, though its small size and low power consumption 
rival typical 16-bit processors, I believe.

: I can still see a market for 16-bit processors in space applications, and 
: I'm sure they'll be supported by Ada compiler - although maybe not Ada95. 

If there is genuine interest, an Ada 95 compiler could be developed
relatively quickly, using either the GNAT/GCC approach, or the
Intermetrics AdaMagic front end generating ANSI C as an intermediate.
The basic problem is finding that first customer who wants to
help foot the bill...  We welcome such inquiries.

: Best Regards
: John McCabe
: ---------------------------------------------------------------------
: Marconi Electronic Systems
: Simulation & Training Division
: =====================================================================
: Not necessarily my company or service providers opinions.
: =====================================================================

--
-Tucker Taft   stt@inmet.com   http://www.inmet.com/~stt/
Intermetrics, Inc.  Burlington, MA  USA
An AverStar Company

Re: Much 16 bit Ada useage?

[John McCabe]

stt@houdini.camb.inmet.com (Tucker Taft) wrote:

>>>However, it seems that the European production of the MA31750 will
>>>stop, so new projects are likely to use the European and space
>>>qualified implementations of the SPARC (ERC-32) or the ADI 21020
>>>DSP. (A port of GNAT for the latter would be nice. Does it exist?)

>: I don't know if it exists, but Tartan were working on Ada for the
>: SHARC (AD 21060) before being bought by TI, so I don't know what's
>: happened to that.
>
>Intermetrics took over the SHARC Ada contract when TI bought Tartan.  A
>beta version of the product is now available from ADI 
>(lori.berenson@analog.com).
>
>However, the SHARC is definitely not a 16-bit processor.
<..snip..>

Of course - I wasn't trying to imply that it was. My comment was simply 
in response to the previous comment regarding the 21020. What I was 
trying to get over was that, at the time I looked at it, no one produced 
an Ada compiler for the 21020, and the closest I could see to that being 
a possibility was the Tartan SHARC compiler.

>: I can still see a market for 16-bit processors in space applications,
>: and I'm sure they'll be supported by Ada compiler - although maybe not
>: Ada95.

>If there is genuine interest, an Ada 95 compiler could be developed
>relatively quickly, using either the GNAT/GCC approach, or the
>Intermetrics AdaMagic front end generating ANSI C as an intermediate.
>The basic problem is finding that first customer who wants to
>help foot the bill...  We welcome such inquiries.

Last I heard, TLD were supposed to be getting together with ACT to come 
up with an Ada95 compiler for the MIL-STD-1750 processors build on the 
GNAT technology. I don't know if that happened or not. Anyone else know?

I was never particularly impressed with TLD's Ada 83 for MIL-STD-1750 as 
a product, but when the code it generated worked, it was s**t hot.

Re: Much 16 bit Ada useage?

[Andi Kleen]

John McCabe <john@assen.demon.co.uk> writes:
> 
> Last I heard, TLD were supposed to be getting together with ACT to come 
> up with an Ada95 compiler for the MIL-STD-1750 processors build on the 
> GNAT technology. I don't know if that happened or not. Anyone else know?

gcc already has a 1750a backend so it probably won't be that hard.

-Andi

Re: Much 16 bit Ada useage?

[Niklas Holsti]

John McCabe wrote:
  [ snip ]
> Last I heard, TLD were supposed to be getting together with ACT to come
> up with an Ada95 compiler for the MIL-STD-1750 processors build on the
> GNAT technology. I don't know if that happened or not. Anyone else know?

I don't know what is happening with TLD and GNAT.

The European Space Agency contracted Chris Nettleton Software (UK) to
develop a GCC/1750+threads; the C compiler and kernel are now complete,
I believe. A follow-on project to include GNAT was planned but has
not yet started, I think. I have heard rumours that a GNAT/1750 exists,
but I don't know how current it is, or was.

About the European production of the MA31750, at DASIA'97 there
were indications from ESA that some other European foundry might
continue production, but this doesn't seem to be happening.

Niklas Holsti