Re: Unsolicited email from Ian Joyner

Re: Unsolicited email from Ian Joyner

[Andrzej Lewandowski]

Ian Joyner <ijoyner@mpce.mq.edu.au> wrote:

>cjames@cec-services.com wrote:

>>Subject:
>>             Unsolicited email from Ian Joyner

>This is an interesting definition of "unsolicited". If you post on a newsgroup,
>then you are bound to get replies, either personally or in the newsgroup itself.
>As you were abusive, I chose to keep it personal, and not waste everybody else's
>time. My mail was reasonably polite.

>>Organization:
>>             Robert C. Martin and Ian Joyner are paranoid assholes

>It is an observation in life that those who make accusations of this type are
>usually exactly what they are accusing others of. I cannot understand your

All this is really interesting. Exciting. Clever. BUT WHY DO YOU POST
THIS CRAP TO 4 PROFESSIONAL GROUPS???

Gentleman - back to the kindergarden with your "discussion".

A.L.

Re: Unsolicited email from Ian Joyner

[Ian Joyner]

cjames@cec-services.com wrote:

>Subject:
>             Unsolicited email from Ian Joyner

This is an interesting definition of "unsolicited". If you post on a newsgroup,
then you are bound to get replies, either personally or in the newsgroup itself.
As you were abusive, I chose to keep it personal, and not waste everybody else's
time. My mail was reasonably polite.

>Organization:
>             Robert C. Martin and Ian Joyner are paranoid assholes

It is an observation in life that those who make accusations of this type are
usually exactly what they are accusing others of. I cannot understand your
over-reaction to a simple request to keep newspostings of a higher quality. Even
though Robert and I don't agree on everything, I have always found that his
responses are written with great courtesy, so I have a lot of respect for him.

I shall ask again, and plead with others not to follow the bad example. Please
keep newspostings of a higher quality, and do not resort to personal abuse.

I don't think anymore needs to be said on this subject.

Thank you.

I wrote:

> Dear Mr. James,
>
> This does not add to the quality of any of these NGs. Please refrain.
>
> Thank you.
>
> cjames@cec-services.com wrote:
>
> > "Robert Martin" <rmartin@oma.com>:
> > :
> > >  I have.  How about this one:
> > >
> > >  ---------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >  Author:   Ell
> > >  Email: ell@access.digex.net
> > >  Date: 1998/06/17
> > >  Forums: comp.object
> > >  Message-ID:   <358b04ea.1529278@news.erols.com>
> > >  Organization:   Universe
> > >  References:   <6m2abn$kef$1@news.interlog.com>
> > <6m35i5$ca4$1@hirame.wwa.com>
> > >  <35870B95.925FFB22@palladion.com>
> > <3588e518.14231523@news.erols.com>
> > >  <6m8f28$am9$1@hirame.wwa.com>
> > >  Reply-To:   ell@access.digex.net
> > >  X-Complaints-To:   abuse@erols.com
> > >  X-Trace:   winter.news.erols.com 898124862 10511 207.172.87.200
> (17
> > Jun 1998
> > >  23:07:43 GMT)
> > >
> > >  "Robert Martin" <rmartin@oma.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >  >As for the rest of Elliott's article, well (Reaganesque
> chuckle),
> > >  >who really cares?  Readers are welcome to peruse the articles
> > >  >on my website to see if they draw the same conclusions that
> > >  >Elliott does.
> > >
> > >  The ones who care Ronny are the ones who will make you pay for
> your
> > >  backward, reactionary crimes against human progress.
> > >
> > >  Elliott
> > >
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >  I saw enough of a personal threat in this particular post to make
> > sure that
> > >  my lawyer had a copy.
> > >
> > >
> > >  Robert C. Martin    | Design Consulting   | Training courses
> > offered:
> > >  Object Mentor       | rmartin@oma.com     |   Object Oriented
> > Design
> > >  14619 N Somerset Cr | Tel: (800) 338-6716 |   C++
> > >  Green Oaks IL 60048 | Fax: (847) 918-1023 | http://www.oma.com
> > >
> > >  "One of the great commandments of science is:
> > >      'Mistrust arguments from authority.'" -- Carl Sagan
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Which proves that Robert C. Martin is a paranoid (and a consummate
> > asshole).

--
Ian Joyner
i.joyner@acm.org

Re: Unsolicited email from Ian Joyner

[Bertrand Meyer]

Andrzej Lewandowski wrote:

> 
> All this is really interesting. Exciting. Clever. BUT WHY DO YOU POST
> THIS CRAP TO 4 PROFESSIONAL GROUPS???
> 
> Gentlem[e]n - back to the kindergarden with your "discussion".

This is rather unfair. Ian Joyner was the object of
an absurd and unwarranted personal attack. He
was obviously entitled to defend himself
by posting one message, on the same channels on which
the original attack came. The message was exactly
as it had to be -- calm, polite, and sticking to the point.

After that there was nothing else to say. It is the message
quoted above that creates noise and risks generating more noise
(such at the present message, which simply hopes to
reestablish the obvious --  not trigger even more
messages with no technical content).

All this is none of my business but I was struck by the tone
of the above message, especially with its use of the
word "Gentlemen" which creates a false symmetry between
a normal, considerate poster (Ian Joyner) and Usenet
abusers. This is exactly the aim that these abusers
seek and they should not be helped. Defending oneself,
simply and factually against personal attacks is perfectly
legitimate and can in no way be construed as "POSTING CRAP".

This is *not* an attack on Mr. Lewandowski as I think
he simply didn't see all the context. I really hope
no more is said on the issue and the group discussions
limit themselves to technical topics.

--
Bertrand Meyer, Interactive Software Engineering
ISE Building, 2nd floor, 270 Storke Road, Goleta CA 93117
805-685-1006, fax 805-685-6869, <Bertrand.Meyer@eiffel.com>
http://eiffel.com

Re: Unsolicited email from Ian Joyner

[Andrzej Lewandowski]

Bertrand Meyer <Bertrand.Meyer@eiffel.com> wrote:

>Andrzej Lewandowski wrote:

>> 
>> All this is really interesting. Exciting. Clever. BUT WHY DO YOU POST
>> THIS CRAP TO 4 PROFESSIONAL GROUPS???
>> 
>> Gentlem[e]n - back to the kindergarden with your "discussion".

>This is rather unfair. Ian Joyner was the object of
>an absurd and unwarranted personal attack. He
>was obviously entitled to defend himself
 

>This is *not* an attack on Mr. Lewandowski as I think
>he simply didn't see all the context. I really hope
>no more is said on the issue and the group discussions
>limit themselves to technical topics.

I am really not sensitive on personal attacks. On the net I am looking
for PROFESSIONAL discussion about PROFESSIONAL topics. Such places
as comp.lang.* should be not forums for discussions that are on the
level of a kindergarden.  I don't care about the context of these
"discussions". I am really surprised that serious people with known an
prominent names dare to respond to messages from individuals that are
known for years that they net abusers. I don't care who started what.
Personal discussion should take place on private platform not on the
net. I am tired of playing with filters and kill files.

A.L.

Re: Unsolicited email from Ian Joyner

[Paul Johnson]

In article <35FF2D65.63A643AE@mpce.mq.edu.au>, Ian Joyner
<ijoyner@mpce.mq.edu.au> writes
>cjames@cec-services.com wrote:
[Lots of drivel]

Don't worry.  Its just Colin James 3rd (CJ3) crawling out of the
woodwork again.  Its been some time since we last saw him.  He will
probably have emailed your boss, your ISP, and anyone else he can think
of with complaints and threats of legal action.  He will also have
trawled Deja-News for any of your past postings which might be
considered even slightly unwise, in the hope of using them against you.
He will now do the same to me.  Stand by for a collection of my posts on
the subject of censorship and implications that I am some sort of
pervert.

However I suppose we should be grateful that we only have one kook on
these groups.  Some groups attract hundreds.

Incidentally, you are in good company.  Bertrand Meyer is a regular
target, and ISTR that Robert Martin and Grady Booch have also been the
subject of such attacks.

Someone has written a CJ3 FAQ to reassure his targets.  I think it needs
posting again.

Whats the matter Colin?  Forgotton to take your meds again?

Paul.
--------------------------------+---------------------------------
Paul Johnson                    | You are lost in a maze of twisty
Email: Paul@treetop.demon.co.uk | little standards, all different.
       paul.johnson@gecm.com    |