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From: Mike Spille <mspille@tisny.com>
Subject: Re: Software landmines (loops)
Date: 1998/09/08
Date: 1998-09-08T00:00:00+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <35F563D7.C3CA7146@tisny.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 6t0q1h$m5b$1@hirame.wwa.com

Robert Martin wrote:
> 
> Mike Spille wrote in message <35F0484A.2108A9F@tisny.com>...
> >Robert Martin wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> int f(char* name) // returns status value
> >> {
> >>   int status = 0;
> >>   if (File* f = fopen(name, "r"))
> >>   {
> >>     if (char* buffer = malloc(80))
> >>     {
> >>       DoSomethingUseful(f,buffer);
> >>       free(buffer);
> >>     }
> >>     else // malloc failure
> >>     {
> >>       Log("malloc failure");
> >>       status = -2;
> >>     }
> >>     fclose(f);
> >>   }
> >>   else // fopen failure
> >>   {
> >>     Log("Failure to fopen");
> >>     status = -1;
> >>   }
> >>   return status;
> >> }
> >>
> >> Perhaps you think this is cumbersome.  I don't.  Cumbersome is a rather
> >> subjective term.
> >>
> >
> >I find it quite cumbersome, and error prone to boot.  I'd do it as:
> >
> >int f(char* name) // returns status value
> >{
> >  char buf[80];
> >  FILE* f = fopen(name, "r");
> >  if (f == NULL) {
> >    Log("Failure to fopen");
> >    return (-1);
> >  }
> >
> >  DoSomethingUseful(f,buf, sizeof(buf));
> >  fclose (f);
> >}
> >
> >That is, use a stack-based buffer and pass in the size of the char array to
> >do something useful so it doesn't walk off the end of the buffer by mistake
> >(assuming that DoSomethingUseful is smart enough to include a size
> argument).
> 
> Come one Mike, I was using the program as an example.  It's not a real
> program.  If you like I'll add the requirement that the buffer *must* come
> from the heap because stack and heap memory run at different speeds, and the
> 'DoSomethingUseful' function needs the heap speed memory. (Sounds crazy but
> one of my clients has a platform with just such a constraint).  As for
> passing in the size, you have a point -- but its completely irrelevant to
> the topic at hand.    In short, you are clutching at straws.
> 

No, I was pointing out that you lost for the forest for the trees.
While pointing out the possible advantages of single entry/return,
you meanwhile ignored common C/C++ coding practices: keep functions
as small as possible, don't malloc() unnecessarily, always pass
array sizes around with arrays.  By concentrating on the advantages
of your particular style, you managed to write a rather poor
function.

> >My point?  I focused on what the routine was supposed to do, not on a
> >methodology,
> 
> And apparently not on what we were discussing.  We were not discussing
> whether buffers should be stack or heap based.  We were not discussing
> whether size variables should be passed along with buffers.  We were
> discussing whether or not se/se makes a function cumbersome.  I used an
> example to make a point, and you side stepped the point.
> 

Once upon a time a buddy of mine was writing a C coding guidelines
manual for a company we both worked for.  He asked me to proof
read it for him.  I did so, and while I had some mild objections
here and there I found his guidelines reasonable - with one
exception.  At the end of the guide he provided an example that
demonstrated some of the major style-points he had touched upon.
His example did indeed avoid all the downfalls he had warned
against in his writing, and followed the style he'd outlined
perfectly.

Unfortunately, the algorithm he had coded was horrendously
inefficient, and buggy to boot.  In his zeal to promote his
guidelines, he'd forgotten to focus on what the algorithm
was supposed to do.

I would say that you did the same - you focused so much on the
style of the code that you ignored the algorithm.  The end-goal
of writing a function is primarily that it does what you want
it to do, and does it well.  If you focus more on following a
given set of rules than you do on what you're trying to
accomplish, your results are going to reflect your priorities.

> >(And I think it's more readable :-)
> 
> Which makes my point about subjectivity for me.
> 
> --
> 
> Robert C. Martin    | Design Consulting   | Training courses offered:
> Object Mentor       | rmartin@oma.com     |   Object Oriented Design
> 14619 N Somerset Cr | Tel: (800) 338-6716 |   C++
> Green Oaks IL 60048 | Fax: (847) 918-1023 | http://www.oma.com
> 
> "One of the great commandments of science is:
>     'Mistrust arguments from authority.'" -- Carl Sagan

	-Mike




  reply	other threads:[~1998-09-08  0:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 510+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
1998-09-07  0:00 Software landmines (loops) Robert Martin
1998-09-08  0:00 ` Mike Spille [this message]
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
1998-08-06  0:00 Why C++ is successful Robert Dewar
1998-08-07  0:00 ` harald.mueller
1998-08-07  0:00   ` Brian Rogoff
1998-08-07  0:00     ` Timothy Welch
1998-08-08  0:00       ` Robert Dewar
1998-08-08  0:00         ` Jeffrey C. Dege
1998-08-10  0:00           ` Laurent GUERBY
1998-08-12  0:00             ` Andy Ward
1998-08-14  0:00               ` Robert Dewar
1998-08-14  0:00                 ` Software landmines (was: Why C++ is successful) dennison
1998-08-16  0:00                   ` Robert Dewar
1998-08-17  0:00                     ` dennison
1998-08-19  0:00                       ` ell
1998-08-19  0:00                         ` adam
1998-08-19  0:00                           ` Dan Higdon
1998-08-20  0:00                             ` adam
1998-08-20  0:00                               ` Software landmines (loops) Nick Leaton
1998-08-30  0:00                                 ` Matthew Heaney
1998-08-30  0:00                                   ` Robert Martin
1998-08-30  0:00                                     ` Charles Hixson
1998-08-31  0:00                                       ` Robert I. Eachus
1998-08-31  0:00                                     ` Ell
1998-08-31  0:00                                       ` Robert Martin
1998-08-31  0:00                                         ` Stephen Leake
1998-08-31  0:00                                           ` Robert Martin
1998-08-31  0:00                                             ` Agent
1998-09-01  0:00                                               ` Ell
1998-08-31  0:00                                                 ` Robert Martin
1998-09-01  0:00                                                   ` dennison
1998-09-01  0:00                                                     ` Robert Martin
1998-09-02  0:00                                                       ` Andrew Reilly
1998-09-01  0:00                                                         ` Robert Martin
1998-09-02  0:00                                                           ` dennison
1998-09-01  0:00                                                   ` Tim Ottinger
1998-09-01  0:00                                                     ` Robert Martin
     [not found]                                                 ` <6sfqul$ggg$1@hirame. <6sidsq$e6c$1@hirame.wwa.com>
1998-09-03  0:00                                                   ` Patrick Doyle
1998-09-03  0:00                                                     ` Charles Hixson
1998-09-03  0:00                                                       ` John G. Volan
1998-09-01  0:00                                             ` Phil Goodwin
1998-09-01  0:00                                               ` Robert Martin
1998-09-02  0:00                                                 ` Ell
1998-09-01  0:00                                                   ` Robert Martin
1998-09-02  0:00                                                     ` Matthew Heaney
1998-09-02  0:00                                                       ` Robert Martin
1998-09-02  0:00                                                         ` Richard Melvin
1998-09-02  0:00                                                           ` Tim Ottinger
1998-09-02  0:00                                                         ` Matthew Heaney
1998-09-02  0:00                                                     ` dennison
1998-09-02  0:00                                                     ` Richard Melvin
1998-09-02  0:00                                                     ` Richard MacDonald (dogmat)
1998-09-03  0:00                                                       ` Matthew Heaney
1998-09-03  0:00                                                     ` mfinney
     [not found]                                                     ` <gio+van+no+ni+8-0309982244140001@dialup62.tlh.talstar.com>
1998-09-04  0:00                                                       ` Ell
     [not found]                                                 ` <gio+van+no+ni+8-0309982225160001@dialup62.tlh.talstar.com>
1998-09-15  0:00                                                   ` mfinney
1998-09-01  0:00                                             ` Matthew Heaney
1998-10-01  0:00                                             ` Charles H. Sampson
1998-10-02  0:00                                               ` Ell
1998-10-02  0:00                                               ` Robert C. Martin
1998-10-02  0:00                                                 ` Ell
1998-10-03  0:00                                                   ` Ell
1998-10-03  0:00                                                     ` Ell
1998-10-02  0:00                                                 ` John I. Moore, Jr.
1998-10-02  0:00                                                   ` Ell
1998-10-03  0:00                                                   ` John Goodsen
1998-10-03  0:00                                                   ` Robert C. Martin
1998-10-03  0:00                                                     ` Ell
1998-10-03  0:00                                                     ` John I. Moore, Jr.
1998-10-05  0:00                                                       ` Robert C. Martin
1998-10-06  0:00                                                       ` Matt Kennel
1998-10-06  0:00                                                         ` Ell
1998-10-03  0:00                                                     ` Richard D Riehle
1998-10-05  0:00                                                     ` dewarr
1998-10-04  0:00                                                       ` Robert C. Martin
1998-10-05  0:00                                                         ` Ell
1998-10-05  0:00                                                         ` Ell
1998-10-05  0:00                                                           ` Ell
1998-10-09  0:00                                                     ` Matthew Heaney
1998-10-09  0:00                                                       ` Ell
1998-10-02  0:00                                                 ` Charles H. Sampson
1998-10-03  0:00                                                   ` Reimer Behrends
1998-10-04  0:00                                                     ` Charles H. Sampson
1998-10-05  0:00                                                       ` Reimer Behrends
1998-10-05  0:00                                                         ` Patrick Logan
1998-10-06  0:00                                                         ` Charles H. Sampson
1998-10-11  0:00                                                           ` Reimer Behrends
1998-10-05  0:00                                                 ` Graham Perkins
1998-10-08  0:00                                                   ` s350817
1998-10-09  0:00                                                 ` Matthew Heaney
1998-08-31  0:00                                         ` Matthew Heaney
1998-08-31  0:00                                           ` Gene Gajewski
1998-08-31  0:00                                           ` Patrick Logan
1998-09-01  0:00                                             ` dewarr
1998-08-31  0:00                                           ` Ell
1998-08-31  0:00                                             ` Robert Martin
1998-08-31  0:00                                               ` Ell
1998-08-31  0:00                                                 ` Robert Martin
1998-09-03  0:00                                                   ` Steven Perryman
1998-09-01  0:00                                                 ` Charles Hixson
1998-08-31  0:00                                             ` Phlip
1998-08-31  0:00                                               ` Robert Martin
1998-08-31  0:00                                         ` Jeffrey C. Dege
1998-08-31  0:00                                           ` Ell
1998-08-31  0:00                                             ` Jeffrey C. Dege
1998-08-31  0:00                                           ` Ell
1998-08-31  0:00                                             ` Gene Gajewski
1998-09-01  0:00                                       ` Charles Hixson
     [not found]                                     ` <35f51e53.48044143@ <m3af4mq7f4.fsf@mheaney.ni.net>
1998-08-31  0:00                                       ` Andrew Hussey
1998-08-31  0:00                                         ` Matthew Heaney
1998-08-31  0:00                                           ` Tim McDermott
1998-08-31  0:00                                             ` Larry Brasfield
1998-09-01  0:00                                               ` Matthew Heaney
1998-09-01  0:00                                             ` dewar
1998-09-01  0:00                                             ` Matthew Heaney
1998-08-31  0:00                                           ` Robert Martin
1998-08-31  0:00                                             ` Gene Gajewski
1998-09-01  0:00                                             ` Chris Brand
1998-09-01  0:00                                               ` Robert Martin
1998-09-01  0:00                                                 ` Biju Thomas
1998-09-01  0:00                                                   ` Robert Martin
1998-09-01  0:00                                             ` Richard Melvin
1998-09-01  0:00                                               ` Robert Martin
1998-09-02  0:00                                               ` Jim Cochrane
1998-09-02  0:00                                                 ` Richard Melvin
1998-09-02  0:00                                                   ` Jim Cochrane
1998-09-03  0:00                                                     ` Matthew Heaney
1998-09-03  0:00                                                       ` Loryn Jenkins
1998-09-03  0:00                                                       ` Jim Cochrane
1998-09-01  0:00                                             ` Phil Goodwin
1998-09-01  0:00                                               ` Biju Thomas
1998-09-02  0:00                                                 ` Phil Goodwin
1998-09-02  0:00                                                   ` Robert Martin
1998-09-03  0:00                                                     ` Phil Goodwin
1998-09-03  0:00                                                       ` Robert Martin
1998-09-03  0:00                                               ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
1998-09-01  0:00                                             ` Matthew Heaney
1998-08-31  0:00                                               ` Robert Martin
1998-09-01  0:00                                                 ` Gerhard Menzl
1998-09-02  0:00                                                 ` Tres Seaver
1998-09-02  0:00                                                   ` Robert Martin
1998-09-03  0:00                                                     ` sureshvv
1998-09-03  0:00                                                   ` Patrick Logan
1998-09-01  0:00                                             ` Robert I. Eachus
1998-09-01  0:00                                             ` sureshvv
1998-09-01  0:00                                               ` Robert Martin
1998-09-02  0:00                                                 ` sureshvv
1998-09-02  0:00                                                   ` Robert Martin
1998-09-03  0:00                                                     ` Charles Hixson
1998-09-04  0:00                                                       ` Patrick Logan
1998-09-04  0:00                                                       ` adam
1998-09-06  0:00                                                         ` Gerry Quinn
1998-09-04  0:00                                                     ` Rick Smith
1998-09-04  0:00                                                       ` Charles Hixson
1998-09-04  0:00                                                       ` Robert Martin
     [not found]                                                       ` <gio+van+no+ni+8-0809981818260001@dialup75.tlh.talstar.com>
1998-09-08  0:00                                                         ` Rick Smith
1998-09-08  0:00                                                         ` Mark A Biggar
1998-09-08  0:00                                                       ` adam
1998-09-08  0:00                                                         ` Rick Smith
1998-09-02  0:00                                                   ` Robert Martin
1998-09-01  0:00                                           ` Loryn Jenkins
1998-09-01  0:00                                             ` Matthew Heaney
1998-09-01  0:00                                               ` Loryn Jenkins
1998-09-01  0:00                                                 ` Matthew Heaney
1998-09-01  0:00                                                   ` James Weirich
1998-09-01  0:00                                                     ` Mike Spille
1998-09-02  0:00                                                       ` Nick Leaton
1998-09-02  0:00                                                   ` Loryn Jenkins
1998-09-01  0:00                                                     ` Darren New
1998-09-02  0:00                                                       ` Loryn Jenkins
1998-09-02  0:00                                                         ` Matthew Heaney
1998-09-02  0:00                                                           ` Loryn Jenkins
1998-09-01  0:00                                                     ` John Volan
1998-09-01  0:00                                                       ` Robert Martin
1998-09-02  0:00                                                       ` Nick Leaton
1998-09-02  0:00                                                       ` Chris Saunders
1998-09-01  0:00                                                     ` John Volan
1998-09-02  0:00                                                     ` Matthew Heaney
1998-09-02  0:00                                                       ` Loryn Jenkins
1998-09-02  0:00                                                       ` Tim McDermott
1998-09-03  0:00                                                         ` Matthew Heaney
1998-09-03  0:00                                                       ` Joe Gamache
1998-09-04  0:00                                                         ` Charles Hixson
1998-09-05  0:00                                                           ` Patrick Logan
1998-09-05  0:00                                                             ` Charles Hixson
1998-09-04  0:00                                                 ` Charles Hixson
1998-09-05  0:00                                                   ` Loryn Jenkins
1998-09-01  0:00                                               ` dewarr
1998-09-04  0:00                                               ` Jean-Marc Jezequel
1998-09-04  0:00                                                 ` Richard Melvin
1998-09-07  0:00                                                   ` Jean-Marc Jezequel
1998-09-01  0:00                                           ` Don Harrison
1998-08-31  0:00                                         ` Mattias Lundstr�m
1998-08-31  0:00                                           ` Robert Martin
1998-08-31  0:00                                             ` Robert I. Eachus
1998-08-31  0:00                                               ` Robert Martin
1998-09-01  0:00                                                 ` Matthew Heaney
1998-09-01  0:00                                                   ` Stephen Leake
1998-09-01  0:00                                                     ` Robert Martin
1998-09-01  0:00                                               ` Matthew Heaney
1998-09-01  0:00                                             ` Richard Jones
1998-09-02  0:00                                               ` Mattias Lundstr�m
1998-09-02  0:00                                               ` Mattias Lundstr�m
1998-09-02  0:00                                                 ` Patrick Logan
1998-09-02  0:00                                                   ` Robert Martin
1998-09-02  0:00                                               ` Mattias Lundstr�m
1998-09-02  0:00                                               ` Mattias Lundstr�m
1998-09-01  0:00                                             ` Mattias Lundstr�m
1998-09-01  0:00                                               ` Robert Martin
1998-09-01  0:00                                                 ` Robert I. Eachus
1998-09-01  0:00                                                   ` Robert Martin
1998-09-02  0:00                                                 ` Mattias Lundstr�m
1998-09-02  0:00                                                 ` Mattias Lundstr�m
1998-09-02  0:00                                                   ` Robert Martin
1998-09-01  0:00                                           ` Tim Ottinger
1998-09-01  0:00                                         ` dewarr
     [not found]                                     ` <35f51e53.48044143@news.erols.c <m3af4mq7f4.fsf@mheaney.ni.net>
1998-08-31  0:00                                       ` Patrick Doyle
1998-08-31  0:00                                         ` Gene Gajewski
1998-08-31  0:00                                         ` Richard D Riehle
1998-09-01  0:00                                           ` Simon Wright
1998-09-02  0:00                                           ` adam
1998-09-01  0:00                                         ` Matthew Heaney
1998-08-31  0:00                                     ` dennison
1998-08-31  0:00                                       ` Robert Martin
1998-09-01  0:00                                         ` Matthew Heaney
1998-09-06  0:00                                           ` Charles Hixson
1998-09-06  0:00                                             ` Matthew Heaney
1998-09-01  0:00                                       ` Andrew Reilly
1998-09-01  0:00                                         ` dewarr
1998-09-01  0:00                                         ` dennison
1998-09-01  0:00                                         ` Matthew Heaney
     [not found]                                     ` <35f51e53.48044143@ <904556531.666222@miso.it.uq.edu.au>
1998-09-01  0:00                                       ` Gerry Quinn
1998-09-01  0:00                                         ` Robert Martin
1998-09-01  0:00                                           ` Gerry Quinn
1998-09-01  0:00                                             ` Robert Martin
1998-09-02  0:00                                               ` Gerry Quinn
1998-09-02  0:00                                                 ` Robert Martin
1998-09-02  0:00                                                   ` Ell
1998-09-04  0:00                                                     ` Andre Tibben
1998-09-04  0:00                                                       ` Patrick Doyle
1998-09-02  0:00                                                   ` Gerry Quinn
1998-09-02  0:00                                                     ` Robert Martin
1998-09-03  0:00                                                       ` sureshvv
1998-09-03  0:00                                                         ` Patrick Logan
1998-09-04  0:00                                                           ` Matthew Heaney
1998-09-03  0:00                                                         ` Robert Martin
1998-09-03  0:00                                                           ` Mike Spille
1998-09-03  0:00                                                             ` Robert Martin
1998-09-03  0:00                                                               ` Mike Spille
1998-09-03  0:00                                                                 ` Robert Martin
1998-09-04  0:00                                                                 ` sureshvv
1998-09-04  0:00                                                                   ` Robert Martin
1998-09-04  0:00                                                                     ` Mike Spille
1998-09-05  0:00                                                                       ` Ell
1998-09-04  0:00                                                               ` Gerry Quinn
1998-09-04  0:00                                                               ` Ray Blaak
1998-09-06  0:00                                                                 ` Charles Hixson
1998-09-06  0:00                                                                   ` Robert Martin
1998-09-07  0:00                                                                     ` Patrick Logan
     [not found]                                                               ` <EyyLos.2nx@yc.estec.esa.nl>
1998-09-08  0:00                                                                 ` John G. Volan
1998-09-08  0:00                                                                   ` duncan
1998-09-08  0:00                                                                     ` Patrick Doyle
1998-09-08  0:00                                                                 ` Robert Martin
1998-09-06  0:00                                                           ` Charles Hixson
1998-09-06  0:00                                                             ` Robert Martin
1998-09-06  0:00                                                               ` Charles Hixson
1998-09-09  0:00                                                               ` sureshvv
1998-09-03  0:00                                                       ` Ell
1998-09-04  0:00                                                         ` Ell
1998-09-03  0:00                                                           ` Robert Martin
1998-09-04  0:00                                                             ` Ell
1998-09-04  0:00                                                               ` Patrick Doyle
1998-09-05  0:00                                                                 ` Ell
1998-09-05  0:00                                                                   ` Jeffrey C. Dege
1998-09-05  0:00                                                                     ` Matthew Heaney
1998-09-05  0:00                                                                       ` Robert Martin
1998-09-05  0:00                                                                       ` Matthew Heaney
1998-09-05  0:00                                                                         ` Robert Martin
1998-09-06  0:00                                                                           ` Loryn Jenkins
1998-09-05  0:00                                                                             ` Robert Martin
1998-09-06  0:00                                                                               ` Loryn Jenkins
1998-09-06  0:00                                                                                 ` Charles Hixson
1998-09-06  0:00                                                                                   ` Patrick Doyle
1998-09-07  0:00                                                                                 ` Ray Gardner
1998-09-07  0:00                                                                                   ` Patrick Logan
1998-09-08  0:00                                                                         ` Tim McDermott
1998-09-08  0:00                                                                           ` Patrick Doyle
1998-09-08  0:00                                                                             ` Patrick Logan
1998-09-17  0:00                                                                           ` Matthew Heaney
1998-09-09  0:00                                                                       ` Tim Ottinger
1998-09-17  0:00                                                                         ` Matthew Heaney
1998-09-16  0:00                                                                           ` Tim Ottinger
1998-09-05  0:00                                                                   ` Loryn Jenkins
1998-09-05  0:00                                                                     ` Robert Martin
1998-09-06  0:00                                                                       ` Loryn Jenkins
1998-09-05  0:00                                                                         ` Robert Martin
1998-09-06  0:00                                                                           ` Loryn Jenkins
1998-09-04  0:00                                                               ` Robert Martin
1998-09-05  0:00                                                                 ` Loryn Jenkins
1998-09-04  0:00                                                                   ` Ell
1998-09-05  0:00                                                                     ` Loryn Jenkins
     [not found]                                                     ` <6skqf3$ <35F0B5B0.8E2D0166@s054.aone.net.au>
1998-09-06  0:00                                                       ` Will Rose
1998-09-06  0:00                                                         ` Ell
1998-09-06  0:00                                                           ` Jeffrey C. Dege
1998-09-01  0:00                                           ` Mike Spille
1998-09-01  0:00                                             ` Robert Martin
     [not found]                                               ` <gio+van+no+ni+8-0309982212300001@dialup62.tlh.talstar.com>
1998-09-04  0:00                                                 ` Robert I. Eachus
     [not found]                                                   ` <gio+van+no+ni+8-0809981840170001@dialup75.tlh.talstar.com>
1998-09-09  0:00                                                     ` Nick Leaton
     [not found]                                                       ` <gio+van+no+ni+8-1609980026290001@dialup26.tlh.talstar.com>
1998-09-16  0:00                                                         ` Nick Leaton
1998-09-02  0:00                                           ` mfinney
1998-09-02  0:00                                             ` Robert Martin
1998-09-02  0:00                                               ` Ell
1998-09-02  0:00                                                 ` Robert Martin
1998-09-02  0:00                                                   ` Ell
1998-09-02  0:00                                                     ` Robert Martin
1998-09-02  0:00                                                       ` Ell
1998-09-02  0:00                                                         ` Robert Martin
1998-09-03  0:00                                                           ` Joe Gwinn
1998-09-03  0:00                                                             ` Robert Martin
1998-09-04  0:00                                                               ` sureshvv
1998-09-04  0:00                                                               ` Ell
1998-09-04  0:00                                                                 ` Robert Martin
1998-09-04  0:00                                                                   ` Ell
1998-09-06  0:00                                                             ` Charles Hixson
1998-09-06  0:00                                                               ` Matthew Heaney
1998-09-06  0:00                                                                 ` Robert Martin
1998-09-06  0:00                                                                   ` Ell
1998-09-06  0:00                                                                     ` Jeffrey C. Dege
1998-09-11  0:00                                                                   ` Robert I. Eachus
1998-09-12  0:00                                                                     ` Patrick Logan
1998-09-06  0:00                                                               ` Robert Martin
1998-09-06  0:00                                                                 ` Jeffrey C. Dege
1998-09-06  0:00                                                                   ` Robert Martin
1998-09-08  0:00                                                               ` adam
1998-09-09  0:00                                                                 ` Gerry Quinn
     [not found]                                                                   ` <gio+van+no+ni+8-1609980034390001@dialup26.tlh.talstar.com>
1998-09-16  0:00                                                                     ` Biju Thomas
1998-09-17  0:00                                                                       ` dewarr
1998-09-18  0:00                                                                         ` Ell
1998-09-17  0:00                                                                       ` Gerry Quinn
1998-09-17  0:00                                                                         ` dewarr
1998-09-18  0:00                                                                           ` Gerry Quinn
1998-09-18  0:00                                                                             ` Biju Thomas
1998-09-18  0:00                                                                               ` Robert C. Martin
1998-09-19  0:00                                                                                 ` Rick Smith
1998-09-19  0:00                                                                               ` Ell
1998-09-19  0:00                                                                               ` dewarr
1998-09-21  0:00                                                                                 ` Richard D Riehle
1998-09-19  0:00                                                                             ` dewarr
1998-09-03  0:00                                                       ` Malcolm Steel
     [not found]                                                       ` <o1fH1.543$495.1 <gwinn-0309982042490001@d8.dial-4.cmb.ma.ultra.net>
1998-09-04  0:00                                                         ` Samuel Mize
1998-09-04  0:00                                                           ` Ell
1998-09-05  0:00                                                           ` Loryn Jenkins
1998-09-09  0:00                                                             ` Samuel Mize
1998-09-09  0:00                                                               ` sureshvv
1998-09-10  0:00                                                                 ` prochak
1998-09-11  0:00                                                                   ` Patrick Doyle
1998-09-17  0:00                                                                 ` Matthew Heaney
1998-09-10  0:00                                                               ` Tim Ottinger
     [not found]                                                                 ` <01bddccc$98b2dda0$ca3aea9e@tom>
1998-09-10  0:00                                                                   ` Tim Ottinger
1998-09-11  0:00                                                             ` Robert I. Eachus
1998-09-12  0:00                                                               ` Loryn Jenkins
1998-09-11  0:00                                                                 ` alan walkington
1998-09-12  0:00                                                                   ` Loryn Jenkins
1998-09-02  0:00                                                     ` Robert Martin
1998-09-02  0:00                                                       ` Ell
     [not found]                                                     ` <6sjnlu$83l$1@hirame.wwa.c <35EE5F67.80D@gecm.com>
1998-09-03  0:00                                                       ` Patrick Doyle
1998-09-02  0:00                                                   ` Ell
1998-09-03  0:00                                                     ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
1998-09-03  0:00                                                       ` Ell
1998-09-03  0:00                                                         ` Patrick Doyle
1998-09-03  0:00                                                         ` Martin Tom Brown
1998-09-02  0:00                                                 ` Rick Smith
1998-09-02  0:00                                                   ` Robert I. Eachus
1998-09-02  0:00                                                     ` Patrick Logan
1998-09-03  0:00                                                       ` Robert I. Eachus
1998-09-02  0:00                                                 ` adam
1998-09-02  0:00                                                 ` Patrick Doyle
1998-09-02  0:00                                               ` adam
1998-09-02  0:00                                               ` Phil Goodwin
1998-09-02  0:00                                               ` Matthew Heaney
1998-09-02  0:00                                                 ` Robert Martin
1998-09-02  0:00                                                   ` dennison
1998-09-02  0:00                                                   ` Dan Higdon
1998-09-02  0:00                                                   ` Matthew Heaney
1998-09-02  0:00                                                     ` Robert Martin
1998-09-03  0:00                                                       ` Matthew Heaney
1998-09-03  0:00                                                         ` Robert Martin
1998-09-03  0:00                                                           ` Biju Thomas
1998-09-03  0:00                                                           ` Phil Goodwin
1998-09-04  0:00                                                             ` Matthew Heaney
1998-09-04  0:00                                                               ` Jeffrey C. Dege
1998-09-04  0:00                                                                 ` Patrick Logan
1998-09-04  0:00                                                                 ` Ell
1998-09-04  0:00                                                           ` Ell
1998-09-04  0:00                                                             ` Ell
1998-09-05  0:00                                                             ` Loryn Jenkins
1998-09-06  0:00                                                               ` Charles Hixson
1998-09-07  0:00                                                                 ` Loryn Jenkins
     [not found]                                                             ` <35F074C9.E10C <35F2E907.594CD023@earthlink.net>
1998-09-07  0:00                                                               ` Patrick Doyle
1998-09-10  0:00                                                             ` Tim Ottinger
1998-09-10  0:00                                                               ` dewarr
1998-09-11  0:00                                                                 ` prochak
1998-09-12  0:00                                                                 ` Ell
1998-09-12  0:00                                                                   ` dewarr
1998-09-12  0:00                                                                     ` Charles Hixson
1998-09-13  0:00                                                                       ` dewarr
1998-09-14  0:00                                                                     ` Ell
1998-09-03  0:00                                                         ` Robert Martin
1998-09-03  0:00                                                         ` Patrick Logan
1998-09-02  0:00                                                     ` Patrick Logan
1998-09-03  0:00                                                       ` Matthew Heaney
1998-09-03  0:00                                                         ` Patrick Logan
1998-09-03  0:00                                                       ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
1998-09-03  0:00                                                         ` Patrick Logan
1998-09-02  0:00                                               ` adam
1998-09-02  0:00                                                 ` Robert Martin
1998-09-02  0:00                                                   ` Mike Spille
1998-09-03  0:00                                                   ` Richard MacDonald
1998-09-03  0:00                                                   ` Gerry Quinn
1998-09-06  0:00                                                 ` Charles Hixson
1998-09-03  0:00                                               ` mfinney
1998-09-03  0:00                                                 ` Robert Martin
     [not found]                                               ` <gio+van+no+ni+8-0309982311220001@dialup62.tlh.talstar.com>
1998-09-03  0:00                                                 ` Robert Martin
1998-09-02  0:00                                             ` john-clonts
1998-09-03  0:00                                               ` mfinney
1998-09-06  0:00                                                 ` Charles Hixson
1998-09-06  0:00                                                   ` mfinney
1998-09-02  0:00                                             ` Ell
1998-09-02  0:00                                               ` Robert Oliver
1998-09-02  0:00                                                 ` john-clonts
1998-09-02  0:00                                                   ` Darren New
1998-09-02  0:00                                                   ` Robert Martin
1998-09-02  0:00                                                 ` Matthew Heaney
1998-09-02  0:00                                                 ` Ell
1998-09-02  0:00                                                   ` Robert Oliver
1998-09-02  0:00                                                     ` Robert Martin
1998-09-03  0:00                                                       ` sureshvv
1998-09-03  0:00                                                         ` Patrick Logan
1998-09-06  0:00                                                       ` Charles Hixson
1998-09-07  0:00                                                         ` Loryn Jenkins
1998-09-03  0:00                                                     ` Ell
1998-09-03  0:00                                                       ` Jeffrey C. Dege
1998-09-05  0:00                                               ` Ray Gardner
1998-09-05  0:00                                                 ` Matthew Heaney
1998-09-07  0:00                                                   ` Ray Gardner
1998-09-07  0:00                                                     ` Ell
1998-09-07  0:00                                                       ` Patrick Doyle
1998-09-07  0:00                                                         ` dewarr
1998-09-07  0:00                                                       ` Ell
1998-09-09  0:00                                                         ` Adrian P. Morgan
1998-09-09  0:00                                                           ` Charles Hixson
1998-09-10  0:00                                                             ` mfinney
     [not found]                                                               ` <gio+van+no+ni+8-1609981736190001@dialup47.tlh.talstar.com>
1998-09-17  0:00                                                                 ` mfinney
1998-09-07  0:00                                                       ` Ray Gardner
1998-09-07  0:00                                                         ` Ell
1998-09-07  0:00                                                           ` Ell
1998-09-09  0:00                                                           ` Ray Gardner
1998-09-07  0:00                                                       ` dewarr
1998-09-09  0:00                                                         ` Ray Gardner
1998-09-11  0:00                                                           ` Robert I. Eachus
1998-10-09  0:00                                                     ` Matthew Heaney
     [not found]                                               ` <m31zpq4pim.fsf@mheaney.ni.ne <m3af36wtwh.fsf@mheaney.ni.net>
1998-10-11  0:00                                                 ` Patrick Doyle
1998-09-02  0:00                                             ` Ell
1998-09-02  0:00                                           ` Gene Gajewski
1998-09-09  0:00                                     ` Jonas M�ls�
     [not found]                                     ` <35f51e53.48044143@ <6t6l4n$rep@jbm.nada.kth.se>
1998-09-10  0:00                                       ` Mats Weber
1998-09-17  0:00                                       ` Matthew Heaney
     [not found]                                 ` <m3ogt3qgca.fsf@mheaney.ni.n <1dghyt5.oik1lzhxzf2N@n207167116176.inetworld.net>
1998-10-10  0:00                                   ` Patrick Doyle
1998-10-12  0:00                                     ` Charles H. Sampson
1998-10-13  0:00                                       ` Matthew Heaney
1998-10-14  0:00                                       ` Graham Perkins
1998-10-15  0:00                                         ` Reimer Behrends
1998-10-15  0:00                                           ` dewarr
     [not found]                           ` <l5HC1.6840$wN.18 <35F238F7.F57D3EC7@earthlink.net>
1998-09-06  0:00                             ` Patrick Doyle
     [not found]           ` <35f51e53.48044143@ <m3af4mq7f4 <m31zpxqutn.fsf@mheaney.ni.net>
1998-08-31  0:00             ` Jim Cochrane
1998-09-01  0:00               ` Matthew Heaney
1998-09-02  0:00                 ` Jim Cochrane
1998-09-02  0:00                   ` Richard Melvin
1998-09-03  0:00                     ` Jim Cochrane
1998-09-03  0:00                   ` Robert I. Eachus
1998-09-01  0:00               ` Matthew Heaney
     [not found]           ` <35f51e53.48044143@ <m3af4mq7f4 <35EC1590.D50DB8F6@tisny.com>
1998-09-01  0:00             ` Patrick Doyle
     [not found]           ` <35f51e53.48044143@ <m3af4mq7f4 <6shhg4$llp$1@hirame.wwa.com>
1998-09-02  0:00             ` Jim Cochrane
     [not found]           ` <35f51e53.48044143@ <m3af4mq7f4 <6sjms6$7c4$1@hirame.wwa.com>
1998-09-02  0:00             ` Patrick Doyle
1998-09-02  0:00               ` Robert Martin
1998-09-02  0:00                 ` Patrick Logan
1998-09-02  0:00                   ` Robert Martin
1998-09-04  0:00                     ` Patrick Logan
1998-09-02  0:00               ` Patrick Logan
1998-09-02  0:00                 ` Patrick Doyle
1998-09-02  0:00                   ` Robert Martin
1998-09-03  0:00                   ` Patrick Logan
1998-09-03  0:00               ` Matthew Heaney
1998-09-03  0:00                 ` Robert Martin
1998-09-03  0:00                   ` Patrick Logan
1998-09-03  0:00               ` mfinney
1998-09-03  0:00                 ` Patrick Doyle
     [not found]           ` <35f51e53.48044143@ <m3af4mq7f4 <6shunm$47g$1@hirame.wwa.com>
1998-09-02  0:00             ` David E. Wallace
     [not found]           ` <35f51e53.48044143@ <m3af4mq7f4 <m3zpck79xp.fsf@mheaney.ni.net>
1998-09-02  0:00             ` Patrick Doyle
     [not found]           ` <35f51e53.48044143@ <904556531. <m3lno372be.fsf@mheaney.ni.net>
1998-09-03  0:00             ` Patrick Doyle
1998-09-03  0:00             ` Patrick Doyle
1998-09-03  0:00               ` Loryn Jenkins
     [not found]           ` <35f51e53.48044143@ <m3af4mq7f4 <35EDC648.76F03F32@draper.com>
1998-09-03  0:00             ` Patrick Doyle
1998-09-03  0:00               ` Tim McDermott
1998-09-04  0:00                 ` Matthew Heaney
1998-09-04  0:00                   ` Patrick Doyle
1998-09-08  0:00                   ` Tim McDermott
1998-09-17  0:00                     ` Matthew Heaney
1998-09-17  0:00                       ` Reimer Behrends
1998-09-18  0:00                       ` Robert I. Eachus
1998-09-18  0:00                         ` Jeffrey C. Dege
1998-09-04  0:00                 ` Patrick Doyle
1998-09-03  0:00               ` Martin Tom Brown
     [not found]           ` <35f51e53.48044143@ <m3af4mq7f4 <35EC937F.94420C51@ibm.net>
1998-09-07  0:00             ` Michael F Brenner
     [not found]           ` <35f51e53.480 <904556531.66622 <EyyLos.2nx@yc.estec.esa.nl>
1998-09-08  0:00             ` Jim Cochrane
1998-09-09  0:00               ` Charles Hixson
1998-09-10  0:00                 ` Loryn Jenkins
1998-09-17  0:00                 ` Matthew Heaney
1998-09-09  0:00               ` duncan
1998-09-11  0:00                 ` Jim Cochrane
1998-09-11  0:00                   ` duncan
1998-09-08  0:00             ` duncan
1998-09-16  0:00               ` Matthew Heaney
1998-09-17  0:00                 ` Reimer Behrends
1998-09-17  0:00                   ` Ell
     [not found]           ` <35f51e53.480<904556531.666222@ <6t42kg$son$1@hirame.wwa.com>
1998-09-08  0:00             ` Patrick Doyle
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