* Re: Safety-Critical Market -Size? [not found] ` <34n5rg$1sm@news.ED.RAY.COM> @ 1994-09-09 16:51 ` Bob Kitzberger 1994-09-10 21:13 ` COUGER GORDON 1994-09-16 4:57 ` Dave Davis 0 siblings, 2 replies; 8+ messages in thread From: Bob Kitzberger @ 1994-09-09 16:51 UTC (permalink / raw) Fred Ross-Perry (fredrp@tif527.ed.ray.com) wrote: : : Curtis May (curtism@netcom.com) wrote: : : > Hello All, : : > I am interested in information regarding the size of the safety-critical : : > software market, particulary in the United States (although global : : > information would be helpful as well). Any relevant information along : : > with the source of the information would be highly appreciated. [snip] : But, there would be a market for tools and methodologies that support the : creation of safety-critical software. Perhaps this is what was meant. A good chunk of the Ada tool market is for safety-critical software, and so are parts of the realtime market (trusted kernels and such, e.g. DO-178B certification). You may want to ask over on comp.realtime and comp.lang.ada. As a matter of fact, I'll add them to the distribution list on this note... .Bob. -- Bob Kitzberger Rational Software Corporation "Though the boys throw stones at frogs in sport, yet the frogs do not die in sport but in earnest." - Plutarch ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Safety-Critical Market -Size? 1994-09-09 16:51 ` Safety-Critical Market -Size? Bob Kitzberger @ 1994-09-10 21:13 ` COUGER GORDON 1994-09-11 17:50 ` Michael Feldman 1994-09-12 15:52 ` Dan Trump 1994-09-16 4:57 ` Dave Davis 1 sibling, 2 replies; 8+ messages in thread From: COUGER GORDON @ 1994-09-10 21:13 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <34q3qv$66p@rational.rational.com>, Bob Kitzberger <rlk@rational.com> wrote: >Fred Ross-Perry (fredrp@tif527.ed.ray.com) wrote: >: : Curtis May (curtism@netcom.com) wrote: >: : > Hello All, > >: : > I am interested in information regarding the size of the safety-critical >: : > software market, particulary in the United States (although global >: : > information would be helpful as well). Any relevant information along >: : > with the source of the information would be highly appreciated. The automotive, trucking, farm and industrial equepment are the biggest users of computer cpu's and they all are safety-critical. Most of the code is written by indivugals and I don't know of any software being marketed. It would be a good place for real time kernels but the rest of the software is pretty device specfic. I think. Gordon Gordon Couger senior software specialist Biosystems & Agricultural Engineering. 114 AG Hall Stillwater, OK 74075 gcouger@olesun.agen.okstate.edu 405 744 9763 day 625-2855 evenings ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Safety-Critical Market -Size? 1994-09-10 21:13 ` COUGER GORDON @ 1994-09-11 17:50 ` Michael Feldman 1994-09-12 18:29 ` Thomas Hood 913-4501 1994-09-12 15:52 ` Dan Trump 1 sibling, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread From: Michael Feldman @ 1994-09-11 17:50 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <CvxMzB.vq@osuunx.ucc.okstate.edu>, COUGER GORDON <gcouger@olesun.okstate.edu> wrote: >The automotive, trucking, farm and industrial equepment are the biggest >users of computer cpu's and they all are safety-critical. Most of the code >is written by indivugals and I don't know of any software being marketed. >It would be a good place for real time kernels but the rest of the software >is pretty device specfic. I think. A year or so ago, someone I know in the Ada community mentioned that he had been to an embedded systems conference and heard someone mention, during a session, that some significant amount of automotive code in his company had been written in Ada. According to my source, there was something of a flap over this, and the speaker was nearly fired for letting the cat out of the bag about his employer's use of Ada. Can anyone confirm or refute? Mike Feldman ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Michael B. Feldman - chair, SIGAda Education Working Group Professor, Dept. of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science The George Washington University - Washington, DC 20052 USA 202-994-5253 (voice) - 202-994-0227 (fax) - mfeldman@seas.gwu.edu (Internet) "Pork is all that stuff the government gives the other guys." ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Safety-Critical Market -Size? 1994-09-11 17:50 ` Michael Feldman @ 1994-09-12 18:29 ` Thomas Hood 913-4501 0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread From: Thomas Hood 913-4501 @ 1994-09-12 18:29 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <34vg1i$e2v@felix.seas.gwu.edu>, mfeldman@seas.gwu.edu (Michael Feldman) writes: |> In article <CvxMzB.vq@osuunx.ucc.okstate.edu>, |> COUGER GORDON <gcouger@olesun.okstate.edu> wrote: |> |> >The automotive, trucking, farm and industrial equepment are the biggest |> >users of computer cpu's and they all are safety-critical. Most of the code |> >is written by indivugals and I don't know of any software being marketed. |> >It would be a good place for real time kernels but the rest of the software |> >is pretty device specfic. I think. |> |> A year or so ago, someone I know in the Ada community mentioned that he |> had been to an embedded systems conference and heard someone mention, |> during a session, that some significant amount of automotive code in |> his company had been written in Ada. According to my source, there was |> something of a flap over this, and the speaker was nearly fired for letting |> the cat out of the bag about his employer's use of Ada. Well I got reamed for indicating the potential use of Ada 9X on SBIS here not too long ago (which I hereby deny any knowledge of ;-}, and we are supposed to be an Ada shop... |> |> Can anyone confirm or refute? |> |> Mike Feldman |> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ |> Michael B. Feldman - chair, SIGAda Education Working Group |> Professor, Dept. of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science |> The George Washington University - Washington, DC 20052 USA |> 202-994-5253 (voice) - 202-994-0227 (fax) - mfeldman@seas.gwu.edu (Internet) |> "Pork is all that stuff the government gives the other guys." |> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- Thomas Hood hoodt@lfs.loral.com -- Ada grunt since 1985 -- Member Team Ada since 1994 -- Member Team Human since 1965 -- -- My opinions are not those of my employers, and if they were I'd probably -- reject them out of hand and form new ones. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Safety-Critical Market -Size? 1994-09-10 21:13 ` COUGER GORDON 1994-09-11 17:50 ` Michael Feldman @ 1994-09-12 15:52 ` Dan Trump 1 sibling, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread From: Dan Trump @ 1994-09-12 15:52 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <CvxMzB.vq@osuunx.ucc.okstate.edu>, gcouger@master.ceat.okstate.edu (COUGER GORDON) writes: > In article <34q3qv$66p@rational.rational.com>, > Bob Kitzberger <rlk@rational.com> wrote: > >Fred Ross-Perry (fredrp@tif527.ed.ray.com) wrote: > >: : Curtis May (curtism@netcom.com) wrote: > >: : > Hello All, > > > >: : > I am interested in information regarding the size of the safety-critical > >: : > software market, particulary in the United States (although global > >: : > information would be helpful as well). Any relevant information along > >: : > with the source of the information would be highly appreciated. > > The automotive, trucking, farm and industrial equepment are the biggest > users of computer cpu's and they all are safety-critical. Most of the code > is written by indivugals and I don't know of any software being marketed. > It would be a good place for real time kernels but the rest of the software > is pretty device specfic. I think. > Gordon I don't know about farm or industrial equipment, but most every automotive and trucking safety-critical system to which we, Delco Electronics, contribute (engine controllers, anti-lock brake controllers, transmission controllers, etc) falls into one of two catagories. One approach is to produce the entire system as a single integrated unit. That means that the automotive manufacturer specifies the hardware and software components of the systems and ultimately gets a working system from the parts manufacturer which they then install in the car/truck. The other approach is to provide the hardware part of the system and the auto/truck manufacturer then does the software in-house. The fact that the software is safety-critical leads, I believe, to a concern about legal liability on the part of the automotive/truck manufacturer. For that reason, the manufacturers are *extremely* sensitive about how well the software works. Another issue is that of the software frequently being the key to a competitive advantage. General Motors seems to prefer to keep the expertise for such systems in-house, rather than relying on some other company for their future survival. Whatever the reason or reasons, the automotive manufacturer maintains tight control over the software. I don't know of a single case where just the software for a safety-critical controller has been contracted to an outside vendor. It may have happened, but there doesn't seem to be much of a market for safety critical software by itself in this part of the industry. Please note that this is an observation from a lowly working grunt at the bottom of the organization. I don't pretend to speak with any authority for my employer (Delco Electronics) or for DE's owners (General Motors). Just my $0.02. > > Gordon Couger senior software specialist > Biosystems & Agricultural Engineering. 114 AG Hall Stillwater, OK 74075 > gcouger@olesun.agen.okstate.edu 405 744 9763 day 625-2855 evenings > -- Dan Trump V: (317) 451-0503 GM: 8-322-0503 c23dlt1@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com Delco Electronics Corp (* Software Engineer - Not a DE spokesman *) "If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara desert, within five years there would be a shortage of sand" - Milton Friedman ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Safety-Critical Market -Size? 1994-09-09 16:51 ` Safety-Critical Market -Size? Bob Kitzberger 1994-09-10 21:13 ` COUGER GORDON @ 1994-09-16 4:57 ` Dave Davis 1994-09-18 21:44 ` jensen 1994-09-19 6:08 ` Joseph Skinner 1 sibling, 2 replies; 8+ messages in thread From: Dave Davis @ 1994-09-16 4:57 UTC (permalink / raw) Every airplane and almost every car should be counted. Also, some fraction of all PCs because of their ubiquity and use in non-business areas. Try ACM papers for hard numbers. Possibly the GSA has a paper. This is a good question for the Library of Congress too, they will assist. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Safety-Critical Market -Size? 1994-09-16 4:57 ` Dave Davis @ 1994-09-18 21:44 ` jensen 1994-09-19 6:08 ` Joseph Skinner 1 sibling, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread From: jensen @ 1994-09-18 21:44 UTC (permalink / raw) Do you want to estimate the potential market size in the sense of who would like to have safety-critical computing, or in the sense of who is willing to pay anything for it? Doug ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Safety-Critical Market -Size? 1994-09-16 4:57 ` Dave Davis 1994-09-18 21:44 ` jensen @ 1994-09-19 6:08 ` Joseph Skinner 1 sibling, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread From: Joseph Skinner @ 1994-09-19 6:08 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <35au4v$koc@www.interramp.com> Dave Davis <Dave@.interramp.com> writes: > >Every airplane and almost every car should be counted. Also, some fraction of >all PCs because of their ubiquity and use in non-business areas. Try ACM >papers for hard numbers. Possibly the GSA has a paper. This is a good question >for the Library of Congress too, they will assist. > Is there a bug in netnews or chameleon that causes it to add ^M to the end of lines or is this just a setup problem. I'm curious as this seems to be a common thing that is present with stuff posted using this software. Joe. -- =============================================================================== Joseph Skinner | Invercargill usenet: joe@jsnode.equinox.gen.nz | New Zealand There is no such thing as a wizard who minds his own business - Berengis the Black Court Mage to the Earl Caeline ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~1994-09-19 6:08 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 8+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- [not found] <curtismCvKvnL.D7B@netcom.com> [not found] ` <34ku24$pch@gazette.medtronic.COM> [not found] ` <34n5rg$1sm@news.ED.RAY.COM> 1994-09-09 16:51 ` Safety-Critical Market -Size? Bob Kitzberger 1994-09-10 21:13 ` COUGER GORDON 1994-09-11 17:50 ` Michael Feldman 1994-09-12 18:29 ` Thomas Hood 913-4501 1994-09-12 15:52 ` Dan Trump 1994-09-16 4:57 ` Dave Davis 1994-09-18 21:44 ` jensen 1994-09-19 6:08 ` Joseph Skinner
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