From: miker3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Rubenstein)
Subject: Re: Which language pays most -- C++ vs. Java?
Date: 1998/02/12
Date: 1998-02-12T14:54:51-06:00 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <34e45ae8.320334566@nntp.ix.netcom.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 6bvdv1$bku@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net
On Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:09:21 -0700, "James Giles"
<jamesgiles@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>Michael Rubenstein wrote in message
><34e37094.260332117@nntp.ix.netcom.com>...
>...
>>Apparently the language was lost a long time ago. The Oxford English
>>Dictionary lists quotes using "they" and "their" with singular
>>antecedants going back to the 14th century.
>
>The OED contains references of all kinds of usage. It is not a
>recommendation that the usage is listed there. I'm sure that
>there are numerous other usages listed there which no one
>would recommend.
>
>On the other hand, most uses of plural pronouns for singular
>antecedants that are listed actually have a pseudo-grammatical
>basis. There are a number of words that are syntactically
>singular, but whose usual application is to a large number of
>people. It is in these cases (and rarely any others) that
>uses of plural pronouns for 'singular' antecedents often
>occurred in the past. These are words like "everyone",
>"no one", "someone", "anyone", etc..
>
>In general, the use of plural pronouns for the singular generic
>does nothing except reduce the efficiency of the language
>for its primary purpose: communication. It's not more polite.
>Indeed, the idea that it's impolite to use the traditional generic
>was *invented* by political activists who wanted a divisive
>rhetorical tool (it's actually deliberately impolite to complain
>about someone's use of the traditional generic).
>
>Now, there *were* (and still are) real sexist abuses of the language.
>To use feminine singular pronouns for generic individuals of only
>certain professions is sexist. To say "the teacher ... she",
>"the nurse ... she", or to refer to the generic secretary with
>"your girl can contact my girl" - these are all sexist. The correct
>traditional generic is to use the masculine singular for the
>generic member of *any* profession or group (with the obvious
>exception of mothers, wives, daughters, etc.). I believe that
>if these genuinely sexists uses of the language weren't ever
>used, the whole issue would never have arisen.
Of course the OED is descriptive and makes no claim to prescribe
correct usage. In fact, in the definition for "their", which I've
quoted in another post, it describes the usage as "not favored by
grammarians."
However, my post did not claim that this is correct usage (I never
even claimed to know what that means). It should have been clear
that I was responding to the statement "[t]he language will be lost,
but it is important to use political correctness." As the OED shows,
this is not a new usage and I have some difficulty attributing most of
the quotes in the OED to "political correctness" nor do I find it
credible that they are a reaction to "your girl can contact my girl."
--
Michael M Rubenstein
next prev parent reply other threads:[~1998-02-12 0:00 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 156+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
1998-01-30 0:00 Which language pays most -- C++ vs. Java? scott
1998-01-30 0:00 ` James Giles
1998-01-30 0:00 ` Charles W. Hall
1998-01-30 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1998-01-30 0:00 ` Art/Jeannie Daly
1998-01-30 0:00 ` Jahfre
1998-02-02 0:00 ` Ian Chivers
1999-07-29 0:00 ` Edwin Purvee
1999-07-30 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1999-07-30 0:00 ` Paul Mesken
1998-02-18 0:00 ` Mad Hamish
1998-02-17 0:00 ` Dennis Weldy
1998-02-18 0:00 ` mei
1998-02-18 0:00 ` Charles W. Hall
1998-02-19 0:00 ` Rennie Allen
1998-02-10 0:00 ` Graham Broadbridge
1998-02-10 0:00 ` dogmat
1998-02-11 0:00 ` Richard Kenner
1998-02-11 0:00 ` The Goobers
1998-02-11 0:00 ` Frank A. Adrian
1998-02-12 0:00 ` Peter Hermann
1998-02-12 0:00 ` docdwarf
1998-02-12 0:00 ` Frank A. Adrian
1998-02-12 0:00 ` docdwarf
1998-02-12 0:00 ` Frank A. Adrian
1998-02-12 0:00 ` docdwarf
1998-02-12 0:00 ` dogmat
1998-02-13 0:00 ` Ethics Gradient
1998-02-13 0:00 ` Steven B Mohler
1998-02-18 0:00 ` Mad Hamish
1998-02-14 0:00 ` Richard Kenner
1998-02-14 0:00 ` The Goobers
1998-02-13 0:00 ` Ethics Gradient
1998-02-15 0:00 ` Flaagg
1998-02-16 0:00 ` The Goobers
1998-02-16 0:00 ` Flaagg
1998-02-16 0:00 ` The Goobers
1998-02-17 0:00 ` Flaagg
1998-02-17 0:00 ` The Goobers
1998-02-17 0:00 ` Anthony Jenkins
1998-02-18 0:00 ` Sakurambo
1998-02-19 0:00 ` Vinay Mutha
1998-02-20 0:00 ` WeeSaul
1998-02-21 0:00 ` Sakurambo
1998-02-21 0:00 ` The Goobers
1998-02-19 0:00 ` Dave Hillstrom
1998-02-16 0:00 ` WeeSaul
1998-02-13 0:00 ` Steven B Mohler
1998-02-14 0:00 ` The Goobers
1998-02-13 0:00 ` Ethics Gradient
1998-02-19 0:00 ` Paulo Pena
1998-02-19 0:00 ` Dik T. Winter
1998-02-19 0:00 ` D J Mann
1998-02-19 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
[not found] ` <6cigl4$m11@news.Hawaii.Edu>
1998-02-20 0:00 ` Paul Stevenson
1998-02-20 0:00 ` The Goobers
1998-02-19 0:00 ` Harold Stevens ** PLEASE SEE SIG **
1998-03-02 0:00 ` Mailuser
1998-02-12 0:00 ` Eric Clayberg
1998-02-11 0:00 ` Dietmar Stumpe
1998-02-11 0:00 ` Patricia Shanahan
1998-02-12 0:00 ` Chris Gray
1998-02-12 0:00 ` Michael Entwistle
1998-02-12 0:00 ` docdwarf
1998-02-12 0:00 ` docdwarf
1998-02-12 0:00 ` Michael Rubenstein
1998-02-12 0:00 ` James Giles
1998-02-12 0:00 ` Michael Rubenstein [this message]
1998-02-12 0:00 ` James Giles
1998-02-13 0:00 ` Michael Rubenstein
1998-02-13 0:00 ` James Giles
1998-02-17 0:00 ` K. C. Putnam
1998-02-17 0:00 ` gypsy
1998-02-13 0:00 ` Benz
1998-02-12 0:00 ` docdwarf
1998-02-12 0:00 ` Michael Rubenstein
1998-02-12 0:00 ` The Goobers
1998-02-13 0:00 ` Tor Iver Wilhelmsen
1998-02-12 0:00 ` Stephen Taylor
1998-02-12 0:00 ` John W. Lewellen
1998-02-12 0:00 ` docdwarf
[not found] ` <01bd37cf$fa30c4e0$56dacdcf@ms112188.mindspring.com>
1998-02-12 0:00 ` docdwarf
1998-02-12 0:00 ` Michael Rot13 Klein
1998-02-12 0:00 ` The Goobers
1998-02-12 0:00 ` Will Rose
1998-02-12 0:00 ` docdwarf
[not found] ` <01bd3803$441d4c30$ee6de288@ato-10098>
1998-02-13 0:00 ` Jeff York
1998-02-13 0:00 ` docdwarf
1998-02-13 0:00 ` M.L. Scott
1998-02-13 0:00 ` The Goobers
1998-02-13 0:00 ` The Goobers
1998-02-16 0:00 ` tgg
1998-02-16 0:00 ` The Goobers
1998-02-17 0:00 ` martin dowie
1998-02-16 0:00 ` tgg
1998-02-16 0:00 ` The Goobers
1998-02-14 0:00 ` cyanide
1998-02-17 0:00 ` Joseph T. Adams
1998-02-17 0:00 ` Richard Kenner
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
1997-12-19 0:00 Which language pays most 17457 " James Giles
1997-12-22 0:00 ` Lawrence Kirby
1997-12-21 0:00 ` James Giles
1997-12-28 0:00 ` Lawrence Kirby
1997-12-30 0:00 ` paulr
1997-12-31 0:00 ` Which language pays most " arnie sherman
1997-12-30 0:00 ` Dann Corbit
1997-12-31 0:00 ` John Slaman
[not found] ` <01bd198f$4050d960$68c8b5cc@dhite.unicomp.net>
1998-01-06 0:00 ` Jedi
1998-01-10 0:00 ` Highlander Consulting
1998-01-11 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1998-01-11 0:00 ` Carsten Arnholm
1998-01-15 0:00 ` Highlander Consulting
1998-01-16 0:00 ` Charles F Hankel
1999-08-09 0:00 ` Paul Groves
1999-08-09 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1998-01-11 0:00 ` Patricia Shanahan
1998-01-11 0:00 ` Barrabazz
1998-01-11 0:00 ` Patricia Shanahan
1998-01-12 0:00 ` Ron Peterson
1998-01-14 0:00 ` anonymous
1998-01-19 0:00 ` Joe Gwinn
[not found] ` <01bd2526$66b70fa0$d6d945cf@juddesk>
1998-01-23 0:00 ` dnns
1998-01-27 0:00 ` Robert Garskof
1998-01-28 0:00 ` Steve Dekorte
1998-01-28 0:00 ` Barrabazz
1998-01-28 0:00 ` dogmat
1998-01-29 0:00 ` Tim Oxler
1998-01-29 0:00 ` Tim Oxler
1998-01-29 0:00 ` Joe Gwinn
1998-01-29 0:00 ` Wayne L. Beavers
1998-01-29 0:00 ` Frank A. Adrian
1998-02-03 0:00 ` GLE
1998-02-03 0:00 ` The Goobers
1998-02-03 0:00 ` Harold Stevens ** PLEASE SEE SIG **
1998-01-29 0:00 ` coryb
1998-01-30 0:00 ` Robert S. White
1998-01-30 0:00 ` Patricia Shanahan
1998-01-31 0:00 ` Paul Van Bellinghen
1998-02-01 0:00 ` Nick Roberts
1998-02-09 0:00 ` cyanide
1998-02-10 0:00 ` dogmat
1998-02-10 0:00 ` Bill Lynch
1998-02-10 0:00 ` Jeff Knaggs
1998-02-10 0:00 ` Michael Rot13 Klein
1998-02-09 0:00 ` cyanide
1998-02-10 0:00 ` dogmat
1999-07-29 0:00 ` Edwin Purvee
[not found] ` <01bd2c3c$6726d520$8101b8c7@MIS-RKW95.spartan.com>
1998-02-10 0:00 ` Steve Dekorte
1998-02-10 0:00 ` Bill Lynch
1998-02-11 0:00 ` dogmat
1998-01-29 0:00 ` Joe Gwinn
1998-01-31 0:00 ` Larry Wiggins
1999-07-29 0:00 ` Ben Pfaff
1999-07-29 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
[not found] ` <6alu5l$onm$1@owl.slip <01bd2c3c$6726d520$8101b8c7@MIS-RKW95.spartan.com>
1998-02-02 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1998-02-02 0:00 ` Michael C. Kasten
[not found] ` <6alu5l$onm$1@owl.slip <34E0D798.E29D6CA0@cableol.co.uk>
1998-02-11 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
[not found] ` <gwinn-1901981219520001@dh5055142. <34CE059C.634DE881@snet.com>
1998-01-27 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1998-01-28 0:00 ` Robert Garskof
1998-02-09 0:00 ` cyanide
1998-01-02 0:00 ` Philip Hunt
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