Re: Learning Windows 95 programming with Ada?

Re: Learning Windows 95 programming with Ada?

[Jerry van Dijk]

In article <348faacf.18643984@news.thegrid.net> xmobay@thegrid.net writes:

>jerry@jvdsys.nextjk.stuyts.nl (Jerry van Dijk) wrote:
>
>>In article <34802dfc.4229989@news.tiac.net> ichbiah@twsolutions.com writes:
>>
>>>> I'd like to learn to do programming for Windows 95.
>>>>[...] Any recommendations?
>>>
>>>Delphi
>>
>>Odd answer...
>
>Not an odd answer at all. In fact, the answer of someone whose clarity
>of thinking and expertise transcend the need to join Language Cults.

Huh ?

>For programming under Windows 95, Delphi is a far better solution than
>any Ada offering.

Actually, it is still odd since the original statements were:

1. Want to program for Win95
2. Know Ada better than C or C++
3. Now program in Ada for DOS
4. Have access to suitable Ada compilers
5. Have no experience using cross language programming

If you translate this to: I want to develop a GUI front-end application
for Win95, Delphi is indeed a suitable choice given a Ada background and
funding or availability.

If, however, you translate this as: I want to learn to program on the Win32
platform, but know Ada better then C++, than clearly Delphi is a strange
recommendation.

Given the senders background and tone, I translated to the second.

>As someone whose Ada experience precedes the release of Ada 83, I vote
>Delphi.

Didn't know this was a contest :-) but my vote goes to whatever helps the
the original author to archieve his goal best.

--

-- Jerry van Dijk | Leiden, Holland
-- Consultant     | Team Ada
-- Ordina Finance | jdijk@acm.org

Re: Learning Windows 95 programming with Ada?

[Jon Jensen]

I would say if you want to develop Win32 based applications which require
database support you should use Visual Basic 5.0 or Delphi 3.0.  If you
want to really learn Windows programming get Charles Petzold's Programming
Windows 95 (or Windows 3.1) and Visual C++ 5.0.

While you may be able to program Windows applications in Ada it doesn't
mean that you should - especially considering it's now legal not to.  If
you know Ada better than C++ I would agree that Delphi is the best choice
to quickly build Windows apps.

IMHO if you want to be good at Windows programming and really understand
what's going on you need to learn it from the C/C++ end.  This forces a
certain level of discipline and understanding that I have never seen from
someone who jumped into it at the VB or Delphi level (or at the Ada or
Modula-2 level).

If Borland had used Ada 95 instead of Object Pascal for Delphi ... well
that's another story.

Re: Learning Windows 95 programming with Ada?

[Larry Kilgallen]

In article <01bd000f$f8a452b0$baeb649b@freeman>, "Jon Jensen" <jon.jensen@hci.utah.edu> writes:

> While you may be able to program Windows applications in Ada it doesn't
> mean that you should - especially considering it's now legal not to.

Sorry, this is not comp.lang.ada.military, and since you post from a .edu
domain I don't understand why you feel there is any notion of "legal"
involved.  I have been using Ada for 9 years without a mandate.

> IMHO if you want to be good at Windows programming and really understand
> what's going on you need to learn it from the C/C++ end.  This forces a
> certain level of discipline and understanding that I have never seen from
> someone who jumped into it at the VB or Delphi level (or at the Ada or
> Modula-2 level).

While that is a fair critique of Microsoft's documentation, things need
not be that way.  Say, all you accomplished Ada authors reading this 
newsgroup -- doesn't the number of people asking Windows-specific
questions make for a larger book-buying public than those looking
to learn abstract data-structures, safety-critical programming, etc.?

I realize the courseware books are a more "pure" form of computer
science, and stooping to discuss an ugly pile of disjoint APIs may
be distasteful.  Wouldn't publishers be attracted to a title like
"Programming for Win32 in Ada" ?  Or do publishers feel any book
with Ada in the title must be something used in CS courses rather
than sold in ordinary bookstores ?

Aside from the income possibilities, you would be doing a great
thing for the popularity of Ada.

Larry Kilgallen

Re: Learning Windows 95 programming with Ada?

[Stanley R. Allen]

Larry Kilgallen wrote:
> 
>  Wouldn't publishers be attracted to a title like
> "Programming for Win32 in Ada" ?  Or do publishers feel any book
> with Ada in the title must be something used in CS courses rather
> than sold in ordinary bookstores ?
>

I've often wished for a "programming windows with Ada" book
since I'm not a windows expert and would like to use Ada as
my learning tool.  (I bought MS C/C++ and later paid for the
upgrades to MS VC++ but just couldn't stomach it.)

If publishers are making money with things like "the Dylan
programmer's bible" then there's got to be hope for an
"Ada for Windows" book.

My suggestions for a book like this:

   1) Cover the bases; include multiple ways of doing the
      programming  (OA GUI Builder, GNAT+Win32Ada API,
      Tk/Tcl in Ada [cf. Pascal Obry], and AdaJava).

   2) Make it a super-thick low-rent all-in-one package aimed
      at the pop programming market (you know what I'm talking
      about: "Ada95 UNLEASHED for Windows Power Programmers").
      Be sure to use the word "power" at least three times on
      the back cover.  The cover is very important, and must
      be an assault on the sense of sight.  By super-thick I
      mean it should have at least 1000 pages.  Of course it
      will be a paperback, 10+ inches tall, etc.

   3) Include a CD ROM with all the latest freeware, GNUware,
      and demo stuff and plenty of examples.

   4) In the words of Tucker Taft, focus more on the "sizzle"
      than the "steak".  There are plenty of "cool" features
      in Ada (multitasking, generics, OO, rep specs), and
      plenty of people are attracted to technologies because
      they are cool.  There are even some folks who, instead
      of stodgily maintaining "I program in Ada because it's
      the best way to produce reliable software", will confess
      after a few drinks that they use Ada because it's cool.
      You might even find this kind of person in a common
      household mirror one day.

-- 
Stanley Allen
mailto:s_allen@hso.link.com

Re: Learning Windows 95 programming with Ada?

[Jerry van Dijk]

In article <1997Dec4.072952.1@eisner> Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam writes:

>                 Wouldn't publishers be attracted to a title like
>"Programming for Win32 in Ada" ?  Or do publishers feel any book
>with Ada in the title must be something used in CS courses rather
>than sold in ordinary bookstores ?

If I though there was any interest, I would start writing tonight, but...

--

-- Jerry van Dijk | Leiden, Holland
-- Consultant     | Team Ada
-- Ordina Finance | jdijk@acm.org

Re: Learning Windows 95 programming with Ada?

[Michael F Brenner]

    >> Publish ... "Programming for Win32 in Ada" ?
     > If I though there was any interest, I would start 
     > writing tonight, 
     >            -- Jerry van Dijk | Leiden, Holland
     >            -- Consultant     | Team Ada

I am ready to order your book, that you are going to start
writing tonight!  

Mike Brenner
Member, Comp.Lang.Ada

                                       

Re: Learning Windows 95 programming with Ada?

[Tom Moran]

>I am ready to order your book, that you are going to start
>writing tonight!  
While waiting for that book, may I modestly suggest section 3 of
"CLAW, a High Level, Portable, Ada 95 Binding for Microsoft Windows"
by Randall Brukardt and myself in the TriAda '97 conference
proceedings?

Re: Learning Windows 95 programming with Ada?

[Richard Toy]

Tom Moran wrote:
> 

> While waiting for that book, may I modestly suggest section 3 of
> "CLAW, a High Level, Portable, Ada 95 Binding for Microsoft Windows"
> by Randall Brukardt and myself in the TriAda '97 conference
> proceedings?

Are these proceedings available on the web ?

-- 
Regards
Richard Toy

Re: Learning Windows 95 programming with Ada?

[Tom Moran]

>> While waiting for that book, may I modestly suggest section 3 of
>> "CLAW, a High Level, Portable, Ada 95 Binding for Microsoft Windows"
>> by Randall Brukardt and myself in the TriAda '97 conference
>> proceedings?

>Are these proceedings available on the web ?
  Apparently not, unless ACM or SIGAda posts them somewhere.  I
believe there is a clause in the agreement specifically allowing
"limited non-commercial" posting, as long as the ACM copyright notice
is included, etc.  A web site doesn't sound very limited.  Sorry.
Guess you'll have to wait for that book after all.

Tri-Ada papers on the web? (was Re: Learning Windows 95 programming with Ada?)

[Ben Brosgol]

Tom Moran wrote:
> 
> >> While waiting for that book, may I modestly suggest section 3 of
> >> "CLAW, a High Level, Portable, Ada 95 Binding for Microsoft Windows"
> >> by Randall Brukardt and myself in the TriAda '97 conference
> >> proceedings?
> 
> >Are these proceedings available on the web ?
>   Apparently not, unless ACM or SIGAda posts them somewhere.  I
> believe there is a clause in the agreement specifically allowing
> "limited non-commercial" posting, as long as the ACM copyright notice
> is included, etc.  A web site doesn't sound very limited.  Sorry.
> Guess you'll have to wait for that book after all.

Although the Tri-Ada proceedings as a whole are not on the web, authors
who want to make their papers available on their own web site can
request permission to do so from ACM.  I suspect that such requests will
be granted without any hassle -- if not, let me know and I'll see what I
can do.

Ben Brosgol, Aonix
Chair, ACM SIGAda
brosgol@aonix.com