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From: Robert Bernecky <bernecky@acm.org>
To: "James L. Ryan" <bosworth@waterw.com>
Subject: Re: Programming language vote - results
Date: 1997/10/29
Date: 1997-10-29T00:00:00+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <34576752.11BAACA1@acm.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: bosworth-2810972117300001@access43.accsyst.com




James L. Ryan wrote:

> In article <34565F22.5B66C13E@acm.org>, Robert Bernecky <bernecky@acm.org>
> wrote:



> In the early seventies Burroughs APL had a "keyword" mode which was



> intended to make APL somewhat accessible from an ASCII terminal. When

> keywords were enabled APL letters mapped into ASCII lowercase and APL

The word "somewhat" is indeed true. I may have invented the first
ascii/apltranslator when I wrote Teletype support into SHARP APL in 1971 or 1972.

I included a translation function that took two character matrices [glyphs and
their text representation] and used that to translate text one way to the other.
You reversed translation direction by switching the matrix arguments.
Similar in spirit to Weigang's APLASCII mapping arrays, but more primitive.

> underscored letters mapped into ASCII uppercase. APL's special characters
> were represented by mnemonics embraced by less-than and greater-than
> symbols. Admittedly this was not intended to be a substitute for an APL
> terminal, but was intended to allow "emergency" access to APL from a
> non-APL terminal. With keywords on, and from an ASCII terminal, a line of
> APL might have looked as follows:

ALL of the keyword schemes I saw (ALL of which differed from
vendor to vendor and even within a single vendor's products) had a
number of bad characteristics, such as:
   - incorrect caret placement on error display
   - difficulties with escape characters
   - little (no) attention paid to user-centered design, to
     make the thing inviting to use. As you point out, Jim,
     they were strictly "Emergency use only" interfaces.

> Burroughs also contracted, in the early seventies, with Memorex to build a
> small number of terminals with 188 printing glyphs, 94 for ASCII and 94
> for APL. These terminals could be either hard switched or soft switched

Yes, indeed. The mighty MRX1240, with an 18 inch long ribbon cartridge thatcost a
bundle, inability to see what you were typing or where the cursor was,
and a MTBF of a few hours.

> friends "golf-ball" terminals. Even though Burroughs attempted to sell
> these Memorex dual character set terminals, the market didn't seem
> interested.

Probably the market asked the suckers (like us) who actually bought oneor two of
them first.

> Actually the ability to have computer output with both upper and lower
> case didn't come about until the early sixties. The computers I programmed

Well before the inception of the APL\360 project.

Bob





  reply	other threads:[~1997-10-29  0:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 147+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <343fbb5a.0@news.iprolink.ch>
1997-10-11  0:00 ` Programming language vote - results Gary L. Scott
1997-10-12  0:00   ` Jack Rudd
1997-10-13  0:00     ` Robert Munck
1997-10-13  0:00       ` Gary L. Scott
1997-10-13  0:00       ` Jack Rudd
1997-10-13  0:00     ` Gary L. Scott
1997-10-13  0:00     ` safetran
1997-10-13  0:00       ` FRS DES
1997-10-13  0:00       ` Jack Rudd
1997-10-14  0:00         ` Philip Brashear
1997-10-14  0:00           ` Gary L. Scott
     [not found]     ` <3442B745.5352@lmco.com>
1997-10-15  0:00       ` Gary L. Scott
1997-10-16  0:00       ` James Giles
1997-10-16  0:00         ` Andrew Haley
1997-10-13  0:00   ` David Ness
1997-10-14  0:00     ` Randy MacDonald
1997-10-14  0:00     ` Jan Karman
1997-10-15  0:00       ` Alan E & Carmel J Brain
1997-10-15  0:00         ` D'Arcy J.M. Cain
1997-10-15  0:00           ` Mark Stephen
1997-10-17  0:00             ` Randy MacDonald
1997-10-15  0:00           ` FRS DES
1997-10-16  0:00           ` Randy MacDonald
1997-10-16  0:00           ` Alan E & Carmel J Brain
1997-10-16  0:00             ` John Sullivan
1997-10-17  0:00               ` Alan E & Carmel J Brain
1997-10-17  0:00                 ` John Sullivan
1997-10-17  0:00               ` Randy MacDonald
1997-10-16  0:00             ` FRS DES
1997-10-17  0:00               ` Jerry van Dijk
1997-10-17  0:00             ` Randy MacDonald
1997-10-20  0:00               ` Alan E & Carmel J Brain
1997-10-20  0:00                 ` Lawrence Kirby
1997-10-20  0:00                   ` Kaz
1997-10-21  0:00                     ` Alan E & Carmel J Brain
1997-10-23  0:00                     ` Ada Readability (Re: Programming language vote - results) Ray Blaak
1997-10-21  0:00                   ` Programming language vote - results Alan E & Carmel J Brain
1997-10-20  0:00                 ` FRS DES
1997-10-21  0:00                   ` Alan E & Carmel J Brain
1997-10-21  0:00                 ` Randy MacDonald
1997-10-22  0:00                   ` Don Guinn
1997-10-29  0:00                     ` Randy MacDonald
     [not found]                     ` <01bce1bf$5c2baaa0$95b66bcf@dkelly.ark.com>
1997-10-29  0:00                       ` Don Guinn
1997-10-29  0:00                         ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
1997-10-31  0:00                         ` Documenting Code (was:Programming language vote - results) Alan E & Carmel J Brain
1997-10-30  0:00                           ` Charles Lin
1997-10-30  0:00                             ` James L. Ryan
1997-10-31  0:00                               ` Robert Bernecky
1997-10-31  0:00                             ` Robert Bernecky
1997-11-01  0:00                           ` Randy MacDonald
1997-11-01  0:00                             ` Robert Dewar
1997-11-03  0:00                               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-10-29  0:00                       ` Programming language vote - results FRS DES
1997-10-25  0:00                   ` Alan E & Carmel J Brain
1997-10-26  0:00                     ` functionality of Java (was Re: Programming language vote - results) Randy MacDonald
1997-10-23  0:00                 ` Programming language vote - results Jack Rudd
1997-10-25  0:00                   ` Alan E & Carmel J Brain
1997-10-25  0:00                     ` Kaz
1997-10-26  0:00                       ` FRS DES
1997-10-27  0:00                       ` Robert Bernecky
1997-10-27  0:00                         ` APL argument W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-10-28  0:00                           ` Randy MacDonald
1997-10-28  0:00                         ` Programming language vote - results Jan Karman
1997-10-28  0:00                           ` Robert Bernecky
1997-10-28  0:00                             ` James L. Ryan
1997-10-29  0:00                               ` Robert Bernecky [this message]
     [not found]                                 ` <bosworth-2910972044300001@access59.accsyst.com>
1997-10-30  0:00                                   ` Robert Bernecky
1997-10-30  0:00                                     ` James L. Ryan
1997-10-31  0:00                                       ` Robert Bernecky
1997-10-31  0:00                                         ` James L. Ryan
1997-10-29  0:00                     ` Jack Rudd
1997-10-25  0:00                 ` Peter Seebach
1997-11-18  0:00                   ` Ingemar Ragnemalm
1997-11-18  0:00                     ` Kevin Swan
1997-11-29  0:00                       ` Ingemar Ragnemalm
1998-09-10  0:00                         ` Steven Katz
1997-11-18  0:00                     ` Lawrence Kirby
1997-11-24  0:00                       ` Martin M Dowie
1997-11-25  0:00                         ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-11-26  0:00                           ` Peter Seebach
1997-12-02  0:00                           ` ANDREAS LEITNER
1997-12-02  0:00                             ` Robert Dewar
1997-12-02  0:00                             ` Lawrence Kirby
1997-12-03  0:00                               ` Billy Chambless
1997-12-03  0:00                                 ` Robert Dewar
1997-12-05  0:00                             ` John Sullivan
1997-11-25  0:00                         ` Mark Wilden
1997-11-25  0:00                           ` Martin M Dowie
1997-11-26  0:00                             ` Lawrence Kirby
1997-11-26  0:00                           ` FRS DES
1997-11-18  0:00                     ` firewind
1997-11-18  0:00                       ` Larry Elmore
1997-11-20  0:00                         ` firewind
1997-11-18  0:00                       ` Kevin Swan
1997-11-19  0:00                         ` Alan E & Carmel J Brain
1997-11-19  0:00                       ` Mike Smith
1997-11-19  0:00                         ` Matt
1997-11-20  0:00                         ` firewind
     [not found]                           ` <3474C71B.536B12F6@cgocable.net>
1997-11-21  0:00                             ` CVigue
1997-11-23  0:00                           ` Lawrence Kirby
1997-11-24  0:00                             ` FRS DES
1997-11-20  0:00                       ` Terry Richards
1997-11-20  0:00                         ` Andy Knight
1997-11-23  0:00                         ` Alex Krol
1997-11-25  0:00                         ` William Tanksley
1997-11-26  0:00                           ` Ron Natalie
1997-11-27  0:00                             ` William Tanksley
1997-11-27  0:00                               ` Lawrence Kirby
     [not found]                                 ` <65keij$mkd$1@nerd.apk.net>
1997-11-27  0:00                                   ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-11-28  0:00                               ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
1997-12-01  0:00                                 ` FRS DES
1997-11-20  0:00                       ` Coding for Obscurity Alan E & Carmel J Brain
1997-11-20  0:00                         ` firewind
1997-11-20  0:00                           ` Jos A. Horsmeier
1997-11-20  0:00                         ` Stephan Wilms
1997-11-21  0:00                           ` Jos A. Horsmeier
1997-11-23  0:00                           ` Alex Krol
1997-11-24  0:00                             ` Jim Johnson
1997-11-24  0:00                               ` Mark Wilden
1997-11-26  0:00                                 ` Robert S. White
1997-11-26  0:00                                   ` Leon Jones
1997-11-26  0:00                                     ` Lawrence Kirby
1997-11-26  0:00                                     ` Ron Natalie
1997-11-27  0:00                                       ` Joerg Rodemann
1997-11-26  0:00                                   ` Mark Wilden
1997-11-26  0:00                                   ` Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
1997-12-01  0:00                                     ` ISONE
1997-12-01  0:00                                     ` ISONE
1997-11-27  0:00                                   ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1997-11-23  0:00                           ` Al Christians
1997-11-24  0:00                           ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1997-11-24  0:00                             ` Samuel T. Harris
1997-11-24  0:00                               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-11-25  0:00                                 ` Samuel T. Harris
1997-11-24  0:00                             ` Matt
1997-11-24  0:00                               ` Ed Falis
1997-11-20  0:00                       ` Programming language vote - results Andy Knight
1997-11-20  0:00                         ` firewind
1997-11-19  0:00                     ` Alan E & Carmel J Brain
1997-11-19  0:00                     ` Peter Seebach
     [not found]           ` <01bcdad2$fa9fdf60$25a43a91@basil.omroep.nl>
1997-10-17  0:00             ` D'Arcy J.M. Cain
1997-10-17  0:00         ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-10-13  0:00   ` Matthew Heaney
1997-10-14  0:00     ` Gary L. Scott
1997-10-13  0:00   ` Robert S. White
1997-10-13  0:00     ` Gary L. Scott
1997-10-19  0:00 ` William Rapp
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