From: Robert Bernecky <bernecky@acm.org>
To: Jan Karman <karman@knoware.nl>
Subject: Re: Programming language vote - results
Date: 1997/10/28
Date: 1997-10-28T00:00:00+00:00 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <34565F22.5B66C13E@acm.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 01bce3bb$5d33da00$25a43a91@basil.omroep.nl
Jan Karman wrote:
> Bernecky's hypothesis
>
> "APL still requires an oddball character set
> "[..]
> "I suspect that if we [the APL design community] had not been so blind to
> the realities
> "of ergonomics, psychology, and display engineering, that we would have
> abandoned
> "the APL character set long ago, and perhaps thereby made APL a far more
> popular
> "language.
> is easily be refuted.
>
> Proof #1
> It would have been as easy for APL vendors to deliver a free, suitable
> keyboard
I am talking about history and what DID happen. There was no serious
attempt by any vendor to make APL fit into the ascii terminal world.
There is NO doubt in my mind that this seriously hampered APL's acceptance
as a popular language in the 70's and 80's.
> I beleive IBM did in the old days, or was it only caps?, and DEC and Data
Decals (to tell you where the right parenthesis key is when it is not where
you expect it to be... Duuhh) did NOT solve the problems of:
- Using ascii-only terminals
- transmitting APL programs across ascii-based networks.
> Because knowledge of APL characters is only relevant to programmers, this
Not so. See above. It affects users and system administrators. Ever triedto
explain to someone back in the dark ages why your APL system couldn't print
a report with someone's name in Upper Case and Lower Case because APL
only had upper case and underbarred characters?
> Proof #2, by counter example, i.e. J
> Could you say e.g.: "Let's give APL common ASCII-characters and it would
> become as popular as Yahoo?"
Read my message again. I was discussing history. What DID and DID NOT
happen. I am not attempting to peddle APL characters in the 90's. It's too late
for that. Marketing and trendiness have taken over from technical superiority.
Bob
next prev parent reply other threads:[~1997-10-28 0:00 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 147+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
[not found] <343fbb5a.0@news.iprolink.ch>
1997-10-11 0:00 ` Programming language vote - results Gary L. Scott
1997-10-12 0:00 ` Jack Rudd
1997-10-13 0:00 ` safetran
1997-10-13 0:00 ` FRS DES
1997-10-13 0:00 ` Jack Rudd
1997-10-14 0:00 ` Philip Brashear
1997-10-14 0:00 ` Gary L. Scott
1997-10-13 0:00 ` Gary L. Scott
1997-10-13 0:00 ` Robert Munck
1997-10-13 0:00 ` Jack Rudd
1997-10-13 0:00 ` Gary L. Scott
[not found] ` <3442B745.5352@lmco.com>
1997-10-15 0:00 ` Gary L. Scott
1997-10-16 0:00 ` James Giles
1997-10-16 0:00 ` Andrew Haley
1997-10-13 0:00 ` Matthew Heaney
1997-10-14 0:00 ` Gary L. Scott
1997-10-13 0:00 ` Robert S. White
1997-10-13 0:00 ` Gary L. Scott
1997-10-13 0:00 ` David Ness
1997-10-14 0:00 ` Randy MacDonald
1997-10-14 0:00 ` Jan Karman
1997-10-15 0:00 ` Alan E & Carmel J Brain
1997-10-15 0:00 ` D'Arcy J.M. Cain
1997-10-15 0:00 ` FRS DES
1997-10-15 0:00 ` Mark Stephen
1997-10-17 0:00 ` Randy MacDonald
1997-10-16 0:00 ` Alan E & Carmel J Brain
1997-10-16 0:00 ` FRS DES
1997-10-17 0:00 ` Jerry van Dijk
1997-10-16 0:00 ` John Sullivan
1997-10-17 0:00 ` Randy MacDonald
1997-10-17 0:00 ` Alan E & Carmel J Brain
1997-10-17 0:00 ` John Sullivan
1997-10-17 0:00 ` Randy MacDonald
1997-10-20 0:00 ` Alan E & Carmel J Brain
1997-10-20 0:00 ` Lawrence Kirby
1997-10-20 0:00 ` Kaz
1997-10-21 0:00 ` Alan E & Carmel J Brain
1997-10-23 0:00 ` Ada Readability (Re: Programming language vote - results) Ray Blaak
1997-10-21 0:00 ` Programming language vote - results Alan E & Carmel J Brain
1997-10-20 0:00 ` FRS DES
1997-10-21 0:00 ` Alan E & Carmel J Brain
1997-10-21 0:00 ` Randy MacDonald
1997-10-22 0:00 ` Don Guinn
1997-10-29 0:00 ` Randy MacDonald
[not found] ` <01bce1bf$5c2baaa0$95b66bcf@dkelly.ark.com>
1997-10-29 0:00 ` FRS DES
1997-10-29 0:00 ` Don Guinn
1997-10-29 0:00 ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
1997-10-31 0:00 ` Documenting Code (was:Programming language vote - results) Alan E & Carmel J Brain
1997-10-30 0:00 ` Charles Lin
1997-10-30 0:00 ` James L. Ryan
1997-10-31 0:00 ` Robert Bernecky
1997-10-31 0:00 ` Robert Bernecky
1997-11-01 0:00 ` Randy MacDonald
1997-11-01 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-11-03 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-10-25 0:00 ` Programming language vote - results Alan E & Carmel J Brain
1997-10-26 0:00 ` functionality of Java (was Re: Programming language vote - results) Randy MacDonald
1997-10-23 0:00 ` Programming language vote - results Jack Rudd
1997-10-25 0:00 ` Alan E & Carmel J Brain
1997-10-25 0:00 ` Kaz
1997-10-26 0:00 ` FRS DES
1997-10-27 0:00 ` Robert Bernecky
1997-10-27 0:00 ` APL argument W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-10-28 0:00 ` Randy MacDonald
1997-10-28 0:00 ` Programming language vote - results Jan Karman
1997-10-28 0:00 ` Robert Bernecky [this message]
1997-10-28 0:00 ` James L. Ryan
1997-10-29 0:00 ` Robert Bernecky
[not found] ` <bosworth-2910972044300001@access59.accsyst.com>
1997-10-30 0:00 ` Robert Bernecky
1997-10-30 0:00 ` James L. Ryan
1997-10-31 0:00 ` Robert Bernecky
1997-10-31 0:00 ` James L. Ryan
1997-10-29 0:00 ` Jack Rudd
1997-10-25 0:00 ` Peter Seebach
1997-11-18 0:00 ` Ingemar Ragnemalm
1997-11-18 0:00 ` Lawrence Kirby
1997-11-24 0:00 ` Martin M Dowie
1997-11-25 0:00 ` Mark Wilden
1997-11-25 0:00 ` Martin M Dowie
1997-11-26 0:00 ` Lawrence Kirby
1997-11-26 0:00 ` FRS DES
1997-11-25 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-11-26 0:00 ` Peter Seebach
1997-12-02 0:00 ` ANDREAS LEITNER
1997-12-02 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-12-02 0:00 ` Lawrence Kirby
1997-12-03 0:00 ` Billy Chambless
1997-12-03 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-12-05 0:00 ` John Sullivan
1997-11-18 0:00 ` Kevin Swan
1997-11-29 0:00 ` Ingemar Ragnemalm
1998-09-10 0:00 ` Steven Katz
1997-11-18 0:00 ` firewind
1997-11-18 0:00 ` Larry Elmore
1997-11-20 0:00 ` firewind
1997-11-18 0:00 ` Kevin Swan
1997-11-19 0:00 ` Alan E & Carmel J Brain
1997-11-19 0:00 ` Mike Smith
1997-11-19 0:00 ` Matt
1997-11-20 0:00 ` firewind
[not found] ` <3474C71B.536B12F6@cgocable.net>
1997-11-21 0:00 ` CVigue
1997-11-23 0:00 ` Lawrence Kirby
1997-11-24 0:00 ` FRS DES
1997-11-20 0:00 ` Terry Richards
1997-11-20 0:00 ` Andy Knight
1997-11-23 0:00 ` Alex Krol
1997-11-25 0:00 ` William Tanksley
1997-11-26 0:00 ` Ron Natalie
1997-11-27 0:00 ` William Tanksley
1997-11-27 0:00 ` Lawrence Kirby
[not found] ` <65keij$mkd$1@nerd.apk.net>
1997-11-27 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-11-28 0:00 ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
1997-12-01 0:00 ` FRS DES
1997-11-20 0:00 ` Andy Knight
1997-11-20 0:00 ` firewind
1997-11-20 0:00 ` Coding for Obscurity Alan E & Carmel J Brain
1997-11-20 0:00 ` firewind
1997-11-20 0:00 ` Jos A. Horsmeier
1997-11-20 0:00 ` Stephan Wilms
1997-11-21 0:00 ` Jos A. Horsmeier
1997-11-23 0:00 ` Alex Krol
1997-11-24 0:00 ` Jim Johnson
1997-11-24 0:00 ` Mark Wilden
1997-11-26 0:00 ` Robert S. White
1997-11-26 0:00 ` Mark Wilden
1997-11-26 0:00 ` Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
1997-12-01 0:00 ` ISONE
1997-12-01 0:00 ` ISONE
1997-11-26 0:00 ` Leon Jones
1997-11-26 0:00 ` Ron Natalie
1997-11-27 0:00 ` Joerg Rodemann
1997-11-26 0:00 ` Lawrence Kirby
1997-11-27 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1997-11-23 0:00 ` Al Christians
1997-11-24 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1997-11-24 0:00 ` Matt
1997-11-24 0:00 ` Ed Falis
1997-11-24 0:00 ` Samuel T. Harris
1997-11-24 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-11-25 0:00 ` Samuel T. Harris
1997-11-19 0:00 ` Programming language vote - results Alan E & Carmel J Brain
1997-11-19 0:00 ` Peter Seebach
1997-10-16 0:00 ` Randy MacDonald
[not found] ` <01bcdad2$fa9fdf60$25a43a91@basil.omroep.nl>
1997-10-17 0:00 ` D'Arcy J.M. Cain
1997-10-17 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-10-19 0:00 ` William Rapp
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