Re: The great Java showcase (re: 2nd historic mistake)

[Tim Ottinger <tottinge@dave-world.net>]

Ell wrote:

> Tim Ottinger (tottinge@dave-world.net) wrote:
> : People don't know what they want.
> Believe me most people _do_ know what they _want_.

No. Most people see a thing and then decide they want it. Most companies
want "market share". Like Poplawski's company wanted to corner the
market on soda fountains. But they really didn't want that. Cornering
the market in a doomed industry is nobody's idea of a good time. What
Stephen Poplawski offered them was what they really wanted: a product
that would make them a lot of money and ensure their continuation. But
they didn't recognize it because they didn't understand that what they'd
already seen wasn't what they really wanted.

They concentrated on what has been and what was, the myth of shortage
economies. Had they tried to make some money for themselves rather than
trying to capture the money that was going to others (or had they tried
both) then that company would have done well. As it was, Poplawski ended
up as an engineer at Oster, well after Waring had the market under
pretty good control.

> : They don't know what they need.
> Never?  In all cases?  So only the engineers can tell us what they
> need?

Most people want freedom, compensation, respect, and autonomy. If you
list those out for them. Otherwise, they want safety, simplicity, to be
in comfortable situations where their consequences won't harm them, and
a clear path to follow. Most people want both at the same time and don't
realize that they're contradictory.

Now, when people have settled into comfortable habits with a process or
practice, then they may want to have the same practice or process
automated. These people are frequently successful in getting what they
want, because they want what they already have. Just faster and more
convenient.

What year was it when you realized that you wanted a web browser? By how
many years did it predate the first appearance of the internet? This
shows that new possibilities open up new needs. When something new comes
out, people suddenly have a "need" for it, because they just realized
that it was possible or useful. I use the web like crazy, but didn't
know that I needed it before I had access to it the first time. I just
knew I wanted access to information. Beyond that, it was a set of
engineers somewhere (CERN and UIUC in particular) who showed us what
could be, and then we wanted it.

I've built systems for people who were just starting businesses. They
wanted a single program which was a combination accounting system, game
system, CAD tool, CASE tool, web browser, database, spreadsheet, and
recipe file. In short, they wanted everything they'd ever seen. The
analyst's job in these kinds of systems was to determine (with the
customer) what they really needed and focus them on their real and most
immediate needs. The analyst was a consultant and helped them to plan
processes which would really work, and automation for those processes.
And to convince them that they didn't have to have all of these in a
single program. Having seperate web browser, recipe file, and accounting
system wasn't bad.

Most people want everything they've ever seen. Other people want the
most expensive few things they've already seen. Very few people know
what they want other than selecting from showrooms, catalogs, and
recommendations. Otherwise, people would all design their own clothes,
houses, cars, etc. Fashions in clothing and music would be dead.

> This is a lot like the statement your president RMartin made that "the
>
> engineers should determine the domain model".
>
> I think you are wrong to make such an uqualified assertion.  If you
> said:
> "They _sometimes_ don't know _precisely_ what they need", you would
> be a lot closer to the truth, imo.

I will accept this final answer as being more nearly the problem I had
than the former.  However, as much as I believe in human dignity and as
much as I would like to believe the world a tidy place, I know in my
heart of hearts that this is not true.

In fact, I'm still trying to define what I want in a programming
language, IDE tool, CASE tool, and database. I only know what I've seen
and not what I really want. I'm betting that this is a normal thing,
part of the human condition. How do I decidee? I shop around and look at
different ones. I don't know what I want, but I'll know what's missing
when I see what's available.

Tim