comp.lang.ada
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: Tim Ottinger <tottinge@dave-world.net>
Subject: Re: The great Java showcase (re: 2nd historic mistake)
Date: 1997/09/15
Date: 1997-09-15T00:00:00+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <341D7271.C55A4622@dave-world.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: dewar.872872744@merv


Robert Dewar wrote:

> No you can't win with an inferior product, winning or success with
> products
> is how superiority is measured.

I think this is a sad statement. Is the ability to generate revenue the
only kind of superiority?

For a company banking on a product, that's the "most important thing",
granted.

It leads us to think that only market leaders are of value to us. By
this statement, we should never have left the Z80-CPU CP/M machines. One
time, the PC was just a new idea. Likewise the Mac. Once there was no
UNIX market, so we should have stayed with the mainframes.

It leads us to think that there is nothing valuable about products which
did not win market share because of poor packaging or marketing.  In
fact, it seems to "prove" that all research projects are inferior, and
therefore invalid, because they're not focused on generating revenue,
but on developing technically-superior solutions. But research is very
valuable. It leads to new generations of revenue-producing products.

Technical superiority and market dominance are clearly not the same
thing. They're not even clearly related.  No product has ever failed
because it was built well. Some have succeeded even though they weren't.

Blaming fitness-to-market problems on engineers is often also futile,
because most engineers receive their specifications from marketing
departments, and do not invent them for themselves. Also, engineers tend
not to participate in the success of their products in any way (other
than continuing to draw the same paycheck because the company doesn't go
under). They often have neither a say in the product direction, nor a
stake in the game, nor the opportunity to meet real users.

A business seems to me to have to provide a well-balanced compromise
between concerns. Inappropriate focus on one concern to the exclusion of
the other seems to be a bad idea. But not because the thing you focused
on was unimportant. Rather because you should have doneone, without
forsaking the other.

> [...]
> I saw an interview with one of the guys from the MIT Media lab a few
> yearsago, saying that he thought that HDTV was completely
> mis-directed. His question: "Ask someone on the street what is wrong
> with TV, they will not say 'lack of definition'". I always remember
> this, because I thought it was an excellent lesson in not focussing on
> technical excellence.

Also, Stephen Poplawski (the inventor of the first blender-like device)
was told that there was no market for his device because it didn't help
to capture the soda fountain market. He lost out on millions of
potential dollars when Fred Osius developed and marketed a similar
device with Fred Waring (the Waring Blendor).

Likewise, Elisha Grey was told by the telegraph company that employeed
him that there was no need in the world for voice communications. This
led to his not patenting the device for many months, and Alexander Bell
beating him to the punch.

People don't know what they want. They don't know what they need. Until
a product has hit the market, it's often impossible to tell if it's
really useful and good or not. And useful and good products fail all of
the time due to marketing and management. Superiority is no guarantor of
success, and neither is inferiority. There are too many variables.

After all, a weak, buggy, incomplete, and nearly unusable product I've
heard of is (in a marketing sense) superior to a clean, tight, useful,
complete, and comfortable product I've never heard of. At least by your
definition of marketing success being the definition of success.  This
seems a balancing act.

If superiority is created on full-page, glossy add pages in magazines,
we can all give up design, hack away, and quit testing code now.  ;-)

Tim








  parent reply	other threads:[~1997-09-15  0:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 112+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
1997-08-29  0:00 The great Java showcase (re: 2nd historic mistake) Ell
1997-08-29  0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-29  0:00   ` Jay Martin
1997-08-30  0:00   ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-08-30  0:00   ` Patrick Doyle
1997-08-30  0:00     ` Jay Martin
1997-09-01  0:00   ` Paul Johnson
1997-09-01  0:00     ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-02  0:00       ` Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
1997-09-02  0:00       ` Jeff Kotula
1997-09-02  0:00       ` Martin Tom Brown
1997-09-02  0:00       ` Matthew S. Whiting
1997-09-03  0:00         ` Robert Munck
1997-09-05  0:00         ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-08  0:00       ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1997-09-13  0:00         ` Mark S. Hathaway
1997-09-16  0:00           ` Des  Kenny
1997-10-28  0:00           ` John English
1997-09-16  0:00         ` Des  Kenny
1997-09-16  0:00           ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-05  0:00     ` Darren New
1997-09-02  0:00   ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-05  0:00     ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-05  0:00       ` happens too often to call it historic W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-15  0:00   ` Tim Ottinger [this message]
1997-09-16  0:00     ` The great Java showcase (re: 2nd historic mistake) Joachim Durchholz
1997-09-18  0:00       ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-16  0:00     ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-29  0:00 ` Brett J. Stonier
1997-08-29  0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
1997-09-17  0:00 Ell
1997-09-17  0:00 Ell
1997-09-16  0:00 ` Mark Wilden
1997-09-17  0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-09-17  0:00 ` Robert B. Love 
1997-09-17  0:00 Ell
1997-09-15  0:00 Ell
1997-09-16  0:00 ` Tim Ottinger
1997-09-17  0:00 ` Doc
     [not found] <97090916235363@psavax.pwfl.com>
1997-09-11  0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-04  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
1997-08-30  0:00 BruceMount
1997-08-29  0:00 Ell
     [not found] <5tvvsj$lh2$1@news2.digex.net>
1997-08-27  0:00 ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-08-27  0:00   ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-08-27  0:00 ` Jeff Brown
1997-08-28  0:00   ` Patrick Doyle
1997-08-28  0:00     ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-28  0:00 ` Brett J. Stonier
1997-08-28  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-29  0:00     ` James P. White
1997-08-29  0:00   ` Paul Johnson
1997-08-29  0:00     ` Dennis Weldy
1997-08-29  0:00     ` Brett J. Stonier
     [not found]     ` <5u6ovi$5kb$1@news2.digex.net>
1997-09-01  0:00       ` Paul Johnson
1997-08-25  0:00 Bertrand Meyer
1997-08-26  0:00 ` BruceMount
     [not found]   ` <5u0nil$atg@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU>
1997-08-28  0:00     ` not
1997-08-28  0:00     ` Richard A. O'Keefe
     [not found]       ` <5u3o1n$hu5@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU>
1997-08-28  0:00         ` Nick Leaton
1997-09-15  0:00       ` Tim Ottinger
1997-09-16  0:00         ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-08-28  0:00   ` Brett J. Stonier
     [not found]     ` <JSA.97Aug28182029@alexandria.organon.com>
     [not found]       ` <3406C150.3EE5EE0E@stratasys.com>
1997-08-29  0:00         ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-29  0:00           ` Jay Martin
1997-08-29  0:00             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-02  0:00             ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-15  0:00       ` Tim Ottinger
1997-08-26  0:00 ` Flavius.Vespasianus
     [not found] ` <JSA.97Aug26153546@alexandria.organon.com>
     [not found]   ` <34034658.7DE14518@eiffel.com>
1997-08-27  0:00     ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-27  0:00 ` James P. White
1997-08-27  0:00   ` Robert Dewar
     [not found]   ` <34047A7D.62319AC4@eiffel.com>
1997-08-27  0:00     ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-08-27  0:00       ` Matthew S. Whiting
1997-08-28  0:00         ` Flavius.Vespasianus
1997-08-28  0:00       ` Mike Coffin
1997-08-29  0:00         ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-30  0:00           ` James P. White
1997-08-31  0:00           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-28  0:00       ` James P. White
1997-08-29  0:00       ` Dennis Weldy
1997-09-03  0:00         ` Charles Ditzel
     [not found]   ` <01bcb38a$8ddc1200$1c10d30a@ntwneil>
1997-08-28  0:00     ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-28  0:00       ` James P. White
1997-08-30  0:00         ` Bert Bril
1997-08-31  0:00           ` Jay Martin
1997-08-29  0:00       ` Lee Webber
1997-08-29  0:00       ` Mike Charlton
     [not found]         ` <N.19970829.uput@sisyphus.demon.co.uk>
1997-09-02  0:00           ` Mike Charlton
1997-09-03  0:00             ` Dave Sparks
     [not found]       ` <EFn8CI.D9p@ecf.toronto.edu>
1997-08-29  0:00         ` Arthur Nelson
1997-08-29  0:00           ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-01  0:00             ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-29  0:00         ` Laurent Guerby
     [not found]           ` <EFonoz.AFC@ecf.toronto.edu>
1997-08-29  0:00             ` Samuel Mize
1997-08-29  0:00         ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-30  0:00           ` Patrick Doyle
1997-08-31  0:00           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-01  0:00             ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-02  0:00               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-05  0:00                 ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-06  0:00                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-29  0:00         ` Peter Hermann
1997-08-28  0:00     ` James P. White
1997-08-28  0:00     ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-29  0:00       ` Lee Webber
     [not found] ` <3402FD4D.C196785B@brightwood.com>
1997-08-27  0:00   ` Patrick Doyle
1997-08-28  0:00   ` Paul Johnson
1997-08-28  0:00     ` Brett J. Stonier
1997-08-28  0:00     ` Jeff Brown
1997-08-28  0:00     ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-29  0:00       ` Paul Johnson
replies disabled

This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox