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From: "Brett J. Stonier" <bretts@brightwood.com>
Subject: Re: The great Java showcase (re: 2nd historic mistake)
Date: 1997/08/28
Date: 1997-08-28T00:00:00+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <3405A268.71A8C313@brightwood.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 872652486.17137@dejanews.com


Bruce -

I can certainly appreciate you opinion.  Although I like playing with it
and see promise for it, I, too, do not think Java to be the end-all,
be-all of development tools.  And, yes, Sun is overhyping it for the
wrong reasons.  And, yes, it can be frustrating when technically
superior products (especially ones you have an interest in, like one in
which you have programming experience) do not win out over inferior
products that have better marketing.  I have a good degree of
programming experience in SQLWindows, for example.  SQLWhat?  "Oh, its
like Powerbuilder or (shudder) VB, but much better."  :-)  Nowadays, its
pretty much dead.  :-(

However, from a fairly unbias observer's standpoint on these Eiffel vs.
Java threads, I am saying that the Eiffel proponents are taking the
wrong approach.  Most of the threads have been kicked off by posts by
Meyer, who presents an arrogant, condescending attititude towards Java.
When you insult Java like that you are insulting Java programmers and
creating resentment towards yourself.

I went into these posts fairly neutral, with a positive image of both
Java and Eiffel, and came out turned off towards Eiffel.  I believe this
is the exact opposite of the effect that is desired.  If this is the
marketing approach that will be used, let's learn a bit from these
technological history lessons everyone's been presenting, and seal the
fate of Eiffel right now.

Brett S.
http://www.mtjeff.com/~calvin/devhbook





  parent reply	other threads:[~1997-08-28  0:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 112+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
1997-08-25  0:00 The great Java showcase (re: 2nd historic mistake) Bertrand Meyer
1997-08-26  0:00 ` Flavius.Vespasianus
1997-08-26  0:00 ` BruceMount
     [not found]   ` <5u0nil$atg@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU>
1997-08-28  0:00     ` not
1997-08-28  0:00     ` Richard A. O'Keefe
     [not found]       ` <5u3o1n$hu5@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU>
1997-08-28  0:00         ` Nick Leaton
1997-09-15  0:00       ` Tim Ottinger
1997-09-16  0:00         ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-08-28  0:00   ` Brett J. Stonier [this message]
     [not found]     ` <JSA.97Aug28182029@alexandria.organon.com>
     [not found]       ` <3406C150.3EE5EE0E@stratasys.com>
1997-08-29  0:00         ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-29  0:00           ` Jay Martin
1997-08-29  0:00             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-02  0:00             ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-15  0:00       ` Tim Ottinger
1997-08-27  0:00 ` James P. White
1997-08-27  0:00   ` Robert Dewar
     [not found]   ` <34047A7D.62319AC4@eiffel.com>
1997-08-27  0:00     ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-08-27  0:00       ` Matthew S. Whiting
1997-08-28  0:00         ` Flavius.Vespasianus
1997-08-28  0:00       ` James P. White
1997-08-28  0:00       ` Mike Coffin
1997-08-29  0:00         ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-30  0:00           ` James P. White
1997-08-31  0:00           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-29  0:00       ` Dennis Weldy
1997-09-03  0:00         ` Charles Ditzel
     [not found]   ` <01bcb38a$8ddc1200$1c10d30a@ntwneil>
1997-08-28  0:00     ` James P. White
1997-08-28  0:00     ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-29  0:00       ` Lee Webber
1997-08-28  0:00     ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-28  0:00       ` James P. White
     [not found]         ` <EFnKuI.4rI@ecf.toronto.edu>
1997-08-29  0:00           ` Memory management techniques -- was Re: The great Java showcase Jon S Anthony
1997-08-30  0:00         ` The great Java showcase (re: 2nd historic mistake) Bert Bril
1997-08-31  0:00           ` Jay Martin
1997-08-29  0:00       ` Lee Webber
     [not found]       ` <EFn8CI.D9p@ecf.toronto.edu>
1997-08-29  0:00         ` Arthur Nelson
1997-08-29  0:00           ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-01  0:00             ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-29  0:00         ` Laurent Guerby
     [not found]           ` <EFonoz.AFC@ecf.toronto.edu>
1997-08-29  0:00             ` Samuel Mize
1997-08-29  0:00         ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-30  0:00           ` Patrick Doyle
1997-08-31  0:00           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-01  0:00             ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-02  0:00               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-05  0:00                 ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-06  0:00                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-29  0:00         ` Peter Hermann
1997-08-29  0:00       ` Mike Charlton
     [not found]         ` <N.19970829.uput@sisyphus.demon.co.uk>
1997-09-02  0:00           ` Mike Charlton
1997-09-03  0:00             ` Dave Sparks
     [not found] ` <JSA.97Aug26153546@alexandria.organon.com>
     [not found]   ` <34034658.7DE14518@eiffel.com>
1997-08-27  0:00     ` Jon S Anthony
     [not found] ` <3402FD4D.C196785B@brightwood.com>
1997-08-27  0:00   ` Patrick Doyle
1997-08-28  0:00   ` Paul Johnson
1997-08-28  0:00     ` Brett J. Stonier
1997-08-28  0:00     ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-29  0:00       ` Paul Johnson
1997-08-28  0:00     ` Jeff Brown
     [not found] <5tvvsj$lh2$1@news2.digex.net>
1997-08-27  0:00 ` Jeff Brown
1997-08-28  0:00   ` Patrick Doyle
1997-08-28  0:00     ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-27  0:00 ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-08-27  0:00   ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-08-28  0:00 ` Brett J. Stonier
1997-08-28  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-29  0:00     ` James P. White
1997-08-29  0:00   ` Paul Johnson
1997-08-29  0:00     ` Brett J. Stonier
1997-08-29  0:00     ` Dennis Weldy
     [not found]     ` <5u6ovi$5kb$1@news2.digex.net>
1997-09-01  0:00       ` Paul Johnson
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
1997-08-29  0:00 Ell
1997-08-29  0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-29  0:00   ` Jay Martin
1997-08-30  0:00   ` Patrick Doyle
1997-08-30  0:00     ` Jay Martin
1997-08-30  0:00   ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-09-01  0:00   ` Paul Johnson
1997-09-01  0:00     ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-02  0:00       ` Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
1997-09-02  0:00       ` Matthew S. Whiting
1997-09-03  0:00         ` Robert Munck
1997-09-05  0:00         ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-02  0:00       ` Martin Tom Brown
1997-09-02  0:00       ` Jeff Kotula
1997-09-08  0:00       ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1997-09-13  0:00         ` Mark S. Hathaway
1997-09-16  0:00           ` Des  Kenny
1997-10-28  0:00           ` John English
1997-09-16  0:00         ` Des  Kenny
1997-09-16  0:00           ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-05  0:00     ` Darren New
1997-09-02  0:00   ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-05  0:00     ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-15  0:00   ` Tim Ottinger
1997-09-16  0:00     ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-09-18  0:00       ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-16  0:00     ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-29  0:00 ` Brett J. Stonier
1997-08-29  0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-29  0:00 Ell
1997-08-30  0:00 BruceMount
1997-09-04  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
     [not found] <97090916235363@psavax.pwfl.com>
1997-09-11  0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-15  0:00 Ell
1997-09-16  0:00 ` Tim Ottinger
1997-09-17  0:00 ` Doc
1997-09-17  0:00 Ell
1997-09-17  0:00 Ell
1997-09-16  0:00 ` Mark Wilden
1997-09-17  0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-09-17  0:00 ` Robert B. Love 
1997-09-17  0:00 Ell
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