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From: Ted Velkoff <velkoff@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Safety-critical development in Ada and Eiffel
Date: 1997/08/13
Date: 1997-08-13T00:00:00+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <33F27B5C.6A3C@erols.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 33F25933.7F83@flash.net


Ken Garlington responded to an earlier post of mine:
> 
> This is certainly reasonable. However, once the execution capabilities
> are removed, it seems fair to ask what Eiffel provides that comments
> (available in most langauges) don't provide. If there is not a
> significant
> difference, then Eiffel would not be any better (in this context) than
> any other language, so long as the DBC principles were followed.
> 

In my experience, there is a significant difference.  I will not presume 
to make a scientific claim; rather I will offer a personal, anecdotal 
example.

About two years ago, I built a modest enhancement to a system which 
amounted to 4K lines each of Ada and C++.  In the package specs and 
module headers I included preconditions, postconditions and invariants 
as comments.  In the Ada bodies, I wrote if-then-else clauses to test 
preconditions (violations led to a chain of exceptions raised out to 
the main program).  In the C++ implementations, I included conditionally 
compiled calls to the assert macro (which does a core dump and spits out 
a file and line number) for preconditions and trivial 
postconditions.

This approach worked really well for me because I was very motivated and 
willing to do certain things.  Those things included: Step 1) write the 
assertions as comments in the specs; Step 2) update comments in the 
specs when testing revealed missing assertions (it's against the rules 
to introduce a precondition and not tell anyone about it - a contract 
with secret codicils, so to speak); Step 3) write the code to test the 
conditions, raise exceptions and generate a trace (in the Ada code).  

This approach was not without flaws:  Flaw 1) In the Ada code, for 
instance, there was no conditional compilation; to remove the assertion 
monitoring would have been a tedious exercise;  Flaw 2) I didn't even 
attempt to monitor postconditions - this is harder, even for simple ones 
(e.g. count = old count + 1); Flaw 3) as implied above, information had 
to be kept in synch in two places: the specs and bodies.

In my opinion, this won't scale up to a large team.  20% might see the 
benefit and be willing to do the many tedious manual tasks I described; 
20% will see no benefit, and even if they did, wouldn't do it; the other 
60% could be persuaded that it would help but wouldn't tolerate the 
extra upfront burden and wouldn't adopt it (in particular, steps 2 and 
3).  I should say I haven't tried it out on a team; this is pure 
conjecture.  (If anything, this appraisal is optimistic.)

Meanwhile at home I write software in Eiffel, where assertions are built 
into the language.  In Eiffel, all I do is Step 1: write the 
pre/post-conditions and invariants.  I don't need to do Step 2 (keep 
spec and body in synch) since in Eiffel, the spec (properly speaking, 
the short form) is automatically generated by tools.  Step 3, (coding 
the assertion tests, handling failures, providing useful diagnostics) is 
provided automatically by the environment.  Furthermore, the three flaws 
are eliminated: 1) with a compile-time switch I can turn off monitoring 
(I don't have to go through and "comment out" reams of code); 2) it's 
easy to monitor post-conditions, since this is provided by the tools 
(caveat - this is useful for testing and integration; postcondition 
monitoring necessarily incurs a performance penalty); 3) mentioned 
above, there is no spec/body redundancy to be managed by the programmer.

Returning to my view of scalability, I think the same 20% of 
programmers would love to work in a programming environment with these 
capabilities, 20% would still dislike it; but the other 60% - I think 
they would like it.  I say that because the cost/benefit is easier to 
see.  It doesn't take much time to write assertions, so when the rest 
comes for free (documentation and testing), programmers will want to 
write them.

Finally, I'll contrast Eiffel's assertions with comments (in any 
language).  I conjecture that because they can be monitored easily, 
Eiffel's assertions affect programmer psychology.  As a supplier, if I 
write postconditions or invariants as comments, I might be merely making 
promises.  If I know those assertions are easily monitored, I will be 
careful about what I promise: the auditor might show up at any minute.

I can imagine that Eiffel may not be suitable for certain real-time 
applications mentioned in this thread.  Nevertheless, I am convinced 
that a large number of software projects would benefit from employing 
"Design By Contract", and that Eiffel is the only language I know 
that makes its application practical and cost-effective 

-- Ted Velkoff




  reply	other threads:[~1997-08-13  0:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 576+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <33957A33.1C31AB44@oma.com>
     [not found] ` <865898351snz@nezumi.demon.co.uk>
     [not found]   ` <339ED54C.215A5F85@oma.com>
     [not found]     ` <5noc8u$a8m$3@miranda.gmrc.gecm.com>
     [not found]       ` <33A032AC.2D8BA85C@oma.com>
     [not found]         ` <5nrn86$cvo$3@miranda.gmrc.gecm.com>
     [not found]           ` <33A1CBBB.B0602EC@oma.com>
     [not found]             ` <5o2uls$ku3$2@miranda.gmrc.gecm.com>
     [not found]               ` <33A6ADDA.2099EEB9@oma.com>
     [not found]                 ` <EBxM3y.8Eo@i2.COM>
     [not found]                   ` <33A7D2DE.545B@polaroid.com>
     [not found]                     ` <JSA.97Jun18155730@alexandria.organon.com>
1997-06-19  0:00                       ` Is ADA as good for graphics programming as C? (WAS: Re: Avoiding the second historic mistake) Mukesh Prasad
1997-06-19  0:00                         ` Is Ada " Jon S Anthony
1997-06-19  0:00                         ` Is ADA " Steve Jones - JON
1997-06-19  0:00                           ` Mukesh Prasad
1997-06-20  0:00                         ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-22  0:00                           ` Is ADA as good for graphics programming as C? (WAS: Jerry van Dijk
1997-06-21  0:00                         ` Is ADA as good for graphics programming as C? (WAS: Re: Avoiding the second historic mistake) Tim Harrison
1997-06-23  0:00                           ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-06-24  0:00                           ` John Goodsen
1997-06-25  0:00                             ` Michael Levasseur
1997-06-26  0:00                               ` Chris Brand
1997-07-02  0:00                               ` Matthew Heaney
1997-07-03  0:00                                 ` Donovan Baarda
1997-07-04  0:00                                   ` Matthew Heaney
1997-07-04  0:00                                     ` Donovan Baarda
1997-07-04  0:00                                       ` Brian Rogoff
1997-07-07  0:00                                         ` Donovan Baarda
1997-07-08  0:00                                           ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-08  0:00                                           ` Brian Rogoff
1997-07-09  0:00                                           ` Don Harrison
1997-07-05  0:00                                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-07  0:00                                         ` Donovan Baarda
1997-07-08  0:00                                           ` Canada Bass
1997-07-08  0:00                                             ` Dale Pontius
1997-07-08  0:00                                             ` Martin Tom Brown
1997-07-09  0:00                                           ` Matthew Heaney
1997-07-10  0:00                                             ` Nick Leaton
1997-07-10  0:00                                               ` Matthew Heaney
1997-07-11  0:00                                                 ` Nick Leaton
1997-07-14  0:00                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-15  0:00                                                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-15  0:00                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-15  0:00                                                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-15  0:00                                                   ` Matthew Heaney
1997-07-15  0:00                                                     ` Brian Rogoff
1997-07-16  0:00                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-17  0:00                                                       ` Matthew Heaney
1997-07-18  0:00                                                         ` Composition vs. Inheritance (was Re: Is ADA as good for graphics programming as C?) Robert I. Eachus
1997-07-19  0:00                                                         ` Is ADA as good for graphics programming as C? (WAS: Re: Avoiding the second historic mistake) Nasser
1997-07-20  0:00                                                           ` Brian Rogoff
1997-07-21  0:00                                                             ` Andrew Dunstan
1997-07-21  0:00                                                             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-21  0:00                                                           ` Jon S Anthony
     [not found]                                                         ` <01bc94e1$46912100$53aa20cc@default>
1997-07-20  0:00                                                           ` Is ADA as good for graphics programming as C? Matthew Heaney
1997-07-21  0:00                                                             ` Dennis Weldy
1997-07-21  0:00                                                           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-21  0:00                                                         ` Is ADA as good for graphics programming as C? (WAS: Re: Avoiding the second historic mistake) Robert C. Martin
1997-07-22  0:00                                                         ` Relative complexity - Eiffel and Ada Don Harrison
1997-07-15  0:00                                               ` Is ADA as good for graphics programming as C? (WAS: Re: Avoiding the second historic mistake) Robert I. Eachus
1997-07-05  0:00                                       ` John Nagle
1997-07-09  0:00                                       ` Don Harrison
1997-07-09  0:00                                         ` Tucker Taft
1997-07-10  0:00                                           ` Safety-critical development in Ada and Eiffel Don Harrison
1997-07-10  0:00                                             ` Joe Gwinn
1997-07-11  0:00                                               ` Robert S. White
1997-07-15  0:00                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-15  0:00                                                   ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-16  0:00                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-10  0:00                                             ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-11  0:00                                               ` Ted Velkoff
1997-07-12  0:00                                                 ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-13  0:00                                                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-14  0:00                                                     ` Wes Groleau
1997-07-15  0:00                                                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-15  0:00                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-15  0:00                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-16  0:00                                                     ` Paul Johnson
1997-07-16  0:00                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-17  0:00                                                         ` Paul Johnson
1997-07-17  0:00                                                           ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-18  0:00                                                             ` Paul Johnson
1997-07-18  0:00                                                               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-18  0:00                                                               ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-21  0:00                                                                 ` Paul Johnson
1997-07-17  0:00                                                       ` Jon S Anthony
     [not found]                                                         ` <EDHqKo.K52@world.std.com>
1997-07-18  0:00                                                           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-19  0:00                                                             ` Robert A Duff
1997-07-20  0:00                                                               ` Tucker Taft
1997-07-10  0:00                                             ` Mike Stark
1997-07-11  0:00                                               ` Donovan Baarda
1997-07-13  0:00                                                 ` Steve Furlong
1997-07-16  0:00                                                   ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-17  0:00                                                     ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-17  0:00                                                     ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-18  0:00                                                     ` John Nagle
1997-07-18  0:00                                                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-18  0:00                                                     ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-18  0:00                                                       ` Nick Leaton
1997-07-18  0:00                                                         ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-11  0:00                                             ` Kazimir Majorinc
1997-07-12  0:00                                               ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-11  0:00                                             ` Don Harrison
1997-07-11  0:00                                               ` James Graves
1997-07-14  0:00                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-12  0:00                                               ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-15  0:00                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-15  0:00                                                   ` Wes Groleau
1997-07-15  0:00                                                     ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-16  0:00                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-16  0:00                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-16  0:00                                                         ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-17  0:00                                                           ` Paul Johnson
1997-07-17  0:00                                                             ` Stuart Palin
1997-07-18  0:00                                                               ` Ian Rae
1997-07-18  0:00                                                               ` Paul Johnson
1997-07-17  0:00                                                             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-18  0:00                                                             ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-18  0:00                                                           ` Don Harrison
1997-07-20  0:00                                                           ` Don Harrison
1997-07-18  0:00                                                     ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-07-21  0:00                                                       ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-07-15  0:00                                                   ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-16  0:00                                                     ` Jean-Marc Jezequel
1997-07-16  0:00                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-17  0:00                                                         ` "Paul E. Bennett"
1997-07-17  0:00                                                           ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-17  0:00                                                         ` The stupidity of all the Ariane 5 analysts Thaddeus L. Olczyk
     [not found]                                                           ` <33CEAF05.6389@flash.net>
1997-07-20  0:00                                                             ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-07-21  0:00                                                               ` Robert S. White
1997-07-21  0:00                                                                 ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-23  0:00                                                                   ` Robert S. White
1997-07-23  0:00                                                                     ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-24  0:00                                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-29  0:00                                                                       ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
1997-07-31  0:00                                                                         ` Warts was " Richard Irvine
1997-07-31  0:00                                                                           ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-05  0:00                                                                           ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
     [not found]                                                                             ` <5scqlr$ju@news.sei.cmu.edu>
1997-08-07  0:00                                                                               ` Brian Rogoff
1997-08-08  0:00                                                                                 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-08  0:00                                                                                   ` Brian Rogoff
1997-08-10  0:00                                                                                 ` Matthew Heaney
1997-08-10  0:00                                                                                   ` Brian Rogoff
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                     ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
     [not found]                                                                               ` <Pine.SGI.3.95.970807191944.13419A-100000@shellx <JSA.97Aug8161709@alexandria.organon.com>
1997-08-08  0:00                                                                                 ` Robert A Duff
1997-08-11  0:00                                                                                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-31  0:00                                                                         ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-01  0:00                                                                           ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
1997-08-04  0:00                                                                           ` Larry Kilgallen
1997-08-08  0:00                                                                         ` Don Harrison
1997-08-11  0:00                                                                           ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
1997-07-23  0:00                                                                     ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-25  0:00                                                                       ` Robert S. White
1997-07-25  0:00                                                                     ` Ariane 5,Eiffel, Ada Alan Brain
1997-07-21  0:00                                                                 ` The stupidity of all the Ariane 5 analysts Robert Dewar
1997-07-21  0:00                                                                   ` The presuppositions " Samuel Mize
1997-07-21  0:00                                                                     ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-22  0:00                                                                     ` Luther Hampton
1997-07-23  0:00                                                                       ` Samuel Mize
1997-07-23  0:00                                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-22  0:00                                                                 ` The stupidity " W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-07-21  0:00                                                               ` Ian Begg
1997-07-21  0:00                                                                 ` Usefullness of design-by-contract (was Re: The stupidity of all the Ariane 5 analysts.) Jim Cochrane
1997-07-22  0:00                                                                   ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-22  0:00                                                                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-21  0:00                                                               ` The stupidity of all the Ariane 5 analysts Ken Garlington
1997-07-31  0:00                                                                 ` Al Christians
1997-08-01  0:00                                                                   ` "Paul E. Bennett"
1997-08-01  0:00                                                                     ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-23  0:00                                                               ` Joerg Rodemann
1997-07-18  0:00                                                         ` Safety-critical development in Ada and Eiffel - Ariane crash Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-18  0:00                                                           ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-17  0:00                                                     ` Safety-critical development in Ada and Eiffel Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-19  0:00                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-21  0:00                                                         ` Ada vs Eiffel (was: Safety-critical development in ...) W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-07-22  0:00                                                           ` Matt Kennel (Remove 'NOSPAM' to reply)
1997-07-21  0:00                                                       ` Safety-critical development in Ada and Eiffel Robert S. White
1997-07-20  0:00                                                         ` nabbasi
1997-07-21  0:00                                                           ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-07-18  0:00                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-18  0:00                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-22  0:00                                                         ` Don Harrison
1997-07-21  0:00                                                           ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-23  0:00                                                             ` Don Harrison
1997-07-23  0:00                                                               ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-25  0:00                                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-23  0:00                                                               ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-07-24  0:00                                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-24  0:00                                                                   ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-26  0:00                                                                     ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-31  0:00                                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-28  0:00                                                                     ` Nick Leaton
1997-07-28  0:00                                                                       ` Steve Jones - JON
1997-07-31  0:00                                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-29  0:00                                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-31  0:00                                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-07  0:00                                                                         ` Don Harrison
1997-08-07  0:00                                                                           ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-09  0:00                                                                             ` Jim Cochrane
1997-08-11  0:00                                                                               ` Paul Johnson
1997-08-11  0:00                                                                                 ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-12  0:00                                                                                   ` Mark A Biggar
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                     ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                       ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                         ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-20  0:00                                                                                           ` Lee Webber
1997-08-21  0:00                                                                                             ` Don Harrison
1997-08-23  0:00                                                                                               ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-20  0:00                                                                                           ` Nick Leaton
1997-08-21  0:00                                                                                             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-22  0:00                                                                                               ` Nick Leaton
1997-08-21  0:00                                                                                             ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                       ` Nick Leaton
1997-08-20  0:00                                                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-26  0:00                                                                                       ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                                   ` Paul Johnson
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                                     ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-15  0:00                                                                                       ` Paul Johnson
1997-08-15  0:00                                                                                         ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-18  0:00                                                                                           ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                             ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-20  0:00                                                                                               ` Nick Leaton
1997-08-20  0:00                                                                                                 ` Nasser
1997-08-21  0:00                                                                                                 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-22  0:00                                                                                                   ` Nick Leaton
1997-08-23  0:00                                                                                                     ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-21  0:00                                                                                               ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-08-23  0:00                                                                                                 ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-12  0:00                                                                             ` Don Harrison
1997-08-12  0:00                                                                               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                                 ` Ted Velkoff
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                                   ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                                     ` Ted Velkoff [this message]
1997-08-14  0:00                                                                                       ` Matt Austern
1997-08-14  0:00                                                                                         ` Ted Velkoff
1997-08-18  0:00                                                                                           ` Matt Austern
1997-08-20  0:00                                                                                             ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-08-21  0:00                                                                                               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-22  0:00                                                                                                 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-08-15  0:00                                                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-16  0:00                                                                                         ` Ted Velkoff
1997-08-16  0:00                                                                                           ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-16  0:00                                                                                             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-16  0:00                                                                                               ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-18  0:00                                                                                               ` Ted Velkoff
1997-08-18  0:00                                                                                             ` Ted Velkoff
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                               ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-14  0:00                                                                                     ` Nick Leaton
1997-08-16  0:00                                                                                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-18  0:00                                                                                       ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                         ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-21  0:00                                                                                           ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-08-23  0:00                                                                                             ` Ken Garlington
     [not found]                                                                                               ` <JSA.97Aug25181856@alexandria.organon.com>
     [not found]                                                                                                 ` <34023A1F.41C67EA6@eiffel.com>
1997-08-25  0:00                                                                                                   ` Design by Contract Bertrand Meyer
     [not found]                                                                                                     ` <3402d123.0@news.uni-ulm.de>
1997-08-26  0:00                                                                                                       ` Nick Leaton
     [not found]                                                                                                         ` <3402e51d.0@news.uni-ulm.de>
     [not found]                                                                                                           ` <3402E8C9.3384D976@calfp.co.uk>
     [not found]                                                                                                             ` <dewar.872631036@merv>
1997-08-27  0:00                                                                                                               ` Matt Kennel (Remove 'NOSPAM' to reply)
     [not found]                                                                                                               ` <3403F668.F6B57D97@calfp.co.uk>
     [not found]                                                                                                                 ` <34041331.0@news.uni-ulm.de>
     [not found]                                                                                                                   ` <3404696D.4487EB71@eiffel.com>
1997-08-27  0:00                                                                                                                     ` Interface/Implementation (was Re: Design by Contract) Bertrand Meyer
     [not found]                                                                                                                       ` <34048FDC.13728473@eiffel.com>
1997-08-27  0:00                                                                                                                         ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-08-28  0:00                                                                                                                           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-29  0:00                                                                                                                             ` Robert Dewar
     [not found]                                                                                                                             ` <EForsv.Fqo@ecf.toronto.edu>
     [not found]                                                                                                                               ` <JSA.97Aug29191413@alexandria.organon.com>
     [not found]                                                                                                                                 ` <EFqDAG.2zn@ecf.toronto.edu>
1997-08-30  0:00                                                                                                                                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-02  0:00                                                                                                                                   ` Don Harrison
1997-09-02  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-03  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` Don Harrison
     [not found]                                                                                                                                     ` <EFwuzD.BxE@ecf.toronto.edu>
1997-09-04  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` Don Harrison
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                                         ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` Don Harrison
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Samuel Mize
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Don Harrison
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Joerg Rodemann
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                                   ` Joerg Rodemann
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                                                                                   ` Matt Austern
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                                     ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-13  0:00                                                                                                                                                     ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Robert S. White
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-13  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-13  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-16  0:00                                                                                                                                                   ` Brian Rogoff
1997-09-04  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` John G. Volan
1997-09-04  0:00                                                                                                                                         ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-06  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-08  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Paul Johnson
1997-09-06  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-08  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Robert S. White
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Paul Johnson
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Paul Johnson
1997-09-14  0:00                                                                                                                                                   ` Ken Garlington
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Matthew Heaney
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` Matt Kennel (Remove 'NOSPAM' to reply)
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` John Viega
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Matt Kennel (Remove 'NOSPAM' to reply)
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                                         ` Franck Arnaud
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                                         ` Patrick Doyle
1997-08-28  0:00                                                                                                                           ` Patrick Doyle
1997-08-28  0:00                                                                                                                             ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-08-28  0:00                                                                                                                       ` Tucker Taft
1997-08-28  0:00                                                                                                                         ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-08-28  0:00                                                                                                                           ` Jon S Anthony
     [not found]                                                                                                                             ` <EFnK8D.Lsv@ecf.toronto.edu>
1997-08-29  0:00                                                                                                                               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-30  0:00                                                                                                                                 ` Patrick Doyle
1997-08-30  0:00                                                                                                                                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-01  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` Patrick Doyle
1997-08-29  0:00                                                                                                                             ` Suzanne Zampella
1997-08-29  0:00                                                                                                                               ` Jon S Anthony
     [not found]                                                                                                                             ` <340E9BA2.32B3@rbgg252.rbg1.siemens.de>
1997-09-07  0:00                                                                                                                               ` Robert Dewar
     [not found]                                                                                                                         ` <3406A707.787D@dmu.ac.uk>
1997-08-29  0:00                                                                                                                           ` Joerg Rodemann
1997-08-29  0:00                                                                                                                             ` Ralph Paul
1997-08-29  0:00                                                                                                                           ` a fairy tale (was: Re: Interface/Implementation ) Fred Long
1997-09-01  0:00                                                                                                                           ` Interface/Implementation (was Re: Design by Contract) Don Harrison
1997-09-01  0:00                                                                                                                           ` In defence of plain ascii files ( was " Chris RL Morgan
1997-08-27  0:00                                                                                                               ` Design by Contract Ted Velkoff
     [not found]                                                                                                               ` <34050F3C.5A3A@invest.amp.com.au>
1997-08-28  0:00                                                                                                                 ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-29  0:00                                                                                                                   ` Paul Johnson
1997-08-31  0:00                                                                                                                     ` Matt Kennel (Remove 'NOSPAM' to reply)
1997-09-01  0:00                                                                                                                       ` John F. Bell III
1997-09-02  0:00                                                                                                                         ` Ken Garlington
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                           ` Robert Dewar
     [not found]                                                                                                                     ` <dewar.872887402@merv>
1997-09-02  0:00                                                                                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-09-03  0:00                                                                                                                         ` Thomas Beale
     [not found]                                                                                                                           ` <EFxx8q.2sw@ecf.toronto.edu>
1997-09-04  0:00                                                                                                                             ` Thomas Beale
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                         ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                           ` Ken Garlington
     [not found]                                                                                                         ` <340306E1.5FB64D70@XYZZYcalfp.com>
1997-08-28  0:00                                                                                                           ` Mark Bennison
1997-08-28  0:00                                                                                                             ` Separation of IF and Imp: process issue? Jeff Kotula
     [not found]                                                                                                               ` <x7vd8myyrzx.fsf@pogner.demon.co.uk>
1997-08-30  0:00                                                                                                                 ` Patrick Doyle
1997-08-31  0:00                                                                                                                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-01  0:00                                                                                                                     ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-01  0:00                                                                                                                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-02  0:00                                                                                                                         ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-03  0:00                                                                                                                           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                           ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                             ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-08  0:00                                                                                                                             ` Erik Magnuson
1997-09-02  0:00                                                                                                                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-03  0:00                                                                                                                         ` Patrick Doyle
     [not found]                                                                                                                   ` <x7vzppy250u.fsf@pogner.demon.co.uk>
1997-09-01  0:00                                                                                                                     ` Patrick Doyle
     [not found]                                                                                                                       ` <mheaney-ya023680000209972131260001@news.ni.net>
1997-09-03  0:00                                                                                                                         ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-04  0:00                                                                                                                           ` Matthew Heaney
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                             ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-08  0:00                                                                                                                               ` John G. Volan
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                 ` Nick Leaton
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                             ` Darren New
1997-09-06  0:00                                                                                                                               ` Matthew Heaney
1997-09-07  0:00                                                                                                                                 ` Darren New
1997-09-08  0:00                                                                                                                                   ` Darren New
1997-09-08  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` Matthew Heaney
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` John G. Volan
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` Robert S. White
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` Darren New
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                         ` Nick Leaton
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Samuel T. Harris
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                         ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Robert A Duff
1997-09-13  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` Matt Kennel (Remove 'NOSPAM' to reply)
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Brian Rogoff
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                         ` Mark A Biggar
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` Darren New
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Joerg Rodemann
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Darren New
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Joerg Rodemann
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                                   ` Darren New
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Peter Hermann
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                         ` news_check.py
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                                                                         ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-16  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` Owen Fellows
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` Fergus Henderson
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` Paul Johnson
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-08  0:00                                                                                                                                   ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                   ` Joerg Rodemann
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` Nick Leaton
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` Precondition Checking For Ada 0X (Was: Separation of IF and Imp: process issue?) Matthew Heaney
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                         ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-15  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-16  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-16  0:00                                                                                                                                         ` Don Harrison
1997-09-16  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` Joerg Rodemann
1997-09-16  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Owen Fellows
1997-09-16  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-09-16  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Roger Browne
1997-09-16  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Robert A Duff
1997-09-17  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Franck Arnaud
1997-09-18  0:00                                                                                                                                                   ` Don Harrison
1997-09-18  0:00                                                                                                                                                     ` Robert A Duff
1997-09-18  0:00                                                                                                                                                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-18  0:00                                                                                                                                                       ` Juergen Schlegelmilch
1997-09-20  0:00                                                                                                                                                       ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-09-17  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Lee Webber
1997-09-17  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-09-17  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Paul Johnson
1997-09-17  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Don Harrison
1997-09-20  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` Matthew Heaney
1997-09-25  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Don Harrison
1997-09-25  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Matthew Heaney
1997-09-26  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-09-29  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` John G. Volan
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` Separation of IF and Imp: process issue? Joerg Rodemann
1997-09-18  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                   ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` Walter Mallory
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` Darren New
     [not found]                                                                                                                               ` <dewar.873826268@merv>
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                 ` Samuel Mize
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                   ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` Scott Ingram
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                         ` Scott Ingram
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                                                                   ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-06  0:00                                                                                                                             ` Matt Kennel (Remove 'NOSPAM' to reply)
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                             ` Samuel Mize
1997-09-06  0:00                                                                                                                               ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-06  0:00                                                                                                                             ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-06  0:00                                                                                                                               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-07  0:00                                                                                                                                 ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-08  0:00                                                                                                                                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` Samuel Mize
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` Matthew Heaney
1997-09-06  0:00                                                                                                                             ` Matt Kennel (Remove 'NOSPAM' to reply)
1997-09-06  0:00                                                                                                                               ` Jon S Anthony
     [not found]                                                                                                               ` <5u4941$9m1@gcsin3.geccs.gecm.com>
1997-09-15  0:00                                                                                                                 ` Michael Gacsaly
     [not found]                                                                                                     ` <34026DE7.7D07@pseserv3.fw.hac.com>
     [not found]                                                                                                       ` <3402C404.56812AFB@XYZZYcalfp.com>
1997-08-27  0:00                                                                                                         ` A DBC experience (was Re: Design by Contract) Simon Wright
     [not found]                                                                                                         ` <5tvfdt$79g@inet-server.sit.fi>
     [not found]                                                                                                           ` <34050D8B.569F@deakin.edu.au>
1997-08-28  0:00                                                                                                             ` Richie Bielak
1997-08-29  0:00                                                                                                               ` Peter Horan
     [not found]                                                                                                     ` <bengtk-2708972209500001@sl35.modempool.kth.se>
1997-08-28  0:00                                                                                                       ` Design by Contract Nick Leaton
1997-08-25  0:00                                                                                                   ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-08-25  0:00                                                                                                     ` Steve Stringfellow
1997-08-26  0:00                                                                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-08-25  0:00                                                                                                   ` Bertrand Meyer
     [not found]                                                                                                     ` <JSA.97Aug26151833@alexandria.organon.com>
1997-08-27  0:00                                                                                                       ` Patrick Doyle
1997-08-25  0:00                                                                                                   ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                                 ` Safety-critical development in Ada and Eiffel Don Harrison
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                                   ` Samuel Mize
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                                     ` Robert A Duff
1997-08-14  0:00                                                                                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-15  0:00                                                                                       ` Don Harrison
1997-08-16  0:00                                                                                         ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-15  0:00                                                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-08-16  0:00                                                                                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-12  0:00                                                                               ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-23  0:00                                                                               ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-08-23  0:00                                                                                 ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-16  0:00                                                   ` Warwick Pulley
1997-07-16  0:00                                                     ` Nick Leaton
1997-07-16  0:00                                                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-20  0:00                                                         ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-24  0:00                                                           ` Joe Buck
1997-07-24  0:00                                                           ` Paul M Gover
1997-07-26  0:00                                                             ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-28  0:00                                                               ` Robert S. White
1997-08-09  0:00                                                                 ` Marinos J. Yannikos
1997-08-10  0:00                                                                   ` Robert S. White
1997-08-11  0:00                                                                   ` Peter Hamer
1997-08-11  0:00                                                                     ` "Paul E. Bennett"
1997-07-29  0:00                                                               ` Don Harrison
1997-07-21  0:00                                                         ` Don Harrison
1997-07-17  0:00                                                       ` Warwick Pulley
1997-07-17  0:00                                                         ` Nick Leaton
1997-07-17  0:00                                                           ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-17  0:00                                                           ` Richie Bielak
1997-07-17  0:00                                                             ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-23  0:00                                                               ` Don Harrison
1997-07-23  0:00                                                                 ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-25  0:00                                                                   ` Don Harrison
1997-07-17  0:00                                                             ` Samuel Tardieu
1997-07-17  0:00                                                               ` Richie Bielak
1997-07-23  0:00                                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-23  0:00                                                                   ` Karel Th�nissen
1997-07-24  0:00                                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-24  0:00                                                                       ` Don Harrison
1997-07-24  0:00                                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-29  0:00                                                                         ` Don Harrison
1997-07-29  0:00                                                                           ` Ron Kohl
1997-07-29  0:00                                                                             ` Don Harrison
1997-07-30  0:00                                                                               ` Don Harrison
1997-07-31  0:00                                                                           ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-07  0:00                                                                             ` Don Harrison
1997-08-07  0:00                                                                               ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                                   ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-14  0:00                                                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-08-15  0:00                                                                                       ` Lee Webber
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                         ` Don Harrison
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                           ` Lee Webber
1997-08-15  0:00                                                                                       ` Don Harrison
1997-08-15  0:00                                                                                         ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-16  0:00                                                                                           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                           ` Don Harrison
1997-08-20  0:00                                                                                             ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-15  0:00                                                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                         ` Don Harrison
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                           ` Lee Webber
1997-08-20  0:00                                                                                           ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-21  0:00                                                                                             ` Don Harrison
1997-07-23  0:00                                                                   ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-25  0:00                                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-23  0:00                                                                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-24  0:00                                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-24  0:00                                                                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-17  0:00                                                             ` Karel Th�nissen
1997-07-23  0:00                                                             ` Don Harrison
1997-07-23  0:00                                                               ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-25  0:00                                                                 ` Don Harrison
     [not found]                                                           ` <JSA.97Jul17174044@alexandria.organon.com>
1997-07-18  0:00                                                             ` Nick Leaton
1997-07-18  0:00                                                             ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-17  0:00                                                         ` Warwick Pulley
1997-07-17  0:00                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-17  0:00                                                       ` Karel Th�nissen
1997-07-21  0:00                                                         ` Don Harrison
1997-07-17  0:00                                                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-22  0:00                                                         ` Don Harrison
1997-07-17  0:00                                                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-18  0:00                                                         ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-19  0:00                                                           ` Robert A Duff
1997-07-20  0:00                                                             ` Use use type? (Was Re: Safety-critical development in Ada and Eiffel) Brian Rogoff
1997-07-21  0:00                                                               ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-21  0:00                                                               ` Robert A Duff
1997-07-21  0:00                                                                 ` Brian Rogoff
1997-07-24  0:00                                                                 ` Morgan Palaeo Associates
1997-07-24  0:00                                                                   ` Jon S Anthony
     [not found]                                                                     ` <199707251337.PAA20933@basement.replay.com>
1997-07-26  0:00                                                                       ` Karel Th�nissen
1997-08-01  0:00                                                                     ` J-P. Rosen
1997-08-01  0:00                                                                       ` Robert A Duff
1997-08-02  0:00                                                                         ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-21  0:00                                                               ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-21  0:00                                                                 ` Brian Rogoff
1997-07-22  0:00                                                                   ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-21  0:00                                                             ` Safety-critical development in Ada and Eiffel W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-07-21  0:00                                                         ` Don Harrison
1997-07-21  0:00                                                           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-21  0:00                                                             ` Brian Rogoff
1997-07-16  0:00                                               ` Alan Brain
1997-07-18  0:00                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-22  0:00                                                   ` Alan Brain
1997-07-22  0:00                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-23  0:00                                                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-24  0:00                                                         ` Don Harrison
1997-07-25  0:00                                                         ` Alan Brain
1997-07-25  0:00                                                           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-11  0:00                                             ` Don Harrison
     [not found]                                     ` <slrn5rq1gc.che.abo@minkirri. <slrn5s1132.hf1.abo@minkirri.apana.org.au>
1997-07-08  0:00                                       ` Is ADA as good for graphics programming as C? (WAS: Re: Avoiding the second historic mistake) Richard Kenner
1997-07-08  0:00                                 ` Dale Pontius
     [not found]                             ` <33B16CBB.417A@gdesys <slrn5rn570.j6j.abo@minkirri.apana.org.au>
1997-07-04  0:00                               ` Samuel Mize
     [not found]                             ` <33B16CBB <slrn5rq1gc.che.abo@minkirri.apana.org.au>
1997-07-05  0:00                               ` Larry Kilgallen
1997-07-17  0:00 Safety-critical development in Ada and Eiffel Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
1997-07-17  0:00 ` Samuel Mize
1997-07-17  0:00   ` Ken Garlington
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
1997-07-18  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
1997-07-18  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
1997-07-22  0:00 ` Karel Th�nissen
1997-07-18  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
1997-07-18  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
1997-07-21  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
1997-07-21  0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-21  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
1997-07-21  0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-24  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
1997-08-24  0:00 Robert Dewar
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