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From: Lynn Killingbeck <killbeck@phoenix.net>
To: Matthew Heaney <mheaney@ni.net>
Subject: Re: floating point comparison
Date: 1997/08/02
Date: 1997-08-02T00:00:00+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <33E3F11A.1329@phoenix.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: mheaney-ya023680003007972240570001@news.ni.net

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Matthew Heaney wrote:
> 
> In article <dewar.870304869@merv>, dewar@merv.cs.nyu.edu (Robert Dewar) wrote:
> 
> >As for when it makes sense to compare floating-point values for equality,
> >that is a matter for the programmer to understand. Floating-point arithmetic
> >on modern IEEE machines is not some kind of approximate hocus-pocus, it
> >is a well defined arithmetic systenm, with well defined, well behaved
> >results, in which equality has a perfectly reasonable meaning.
> 
> OK, so if  do this
> 
> declare
>    m1, m2 : slope;
> begin
>    if m1 = m2 then
> 
> and I'm using IEEE floating point types (I'm on a SUN box), can I assume
> that the lines are parallel?
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> Matthew Heaney
> Software Development Consultant
> <mailto:matthew_heaney@acm.org>
> (818) 985-1271

The slopes might compare equal when they are, in reality, different.
Just to be fair, the slopes also might compare unequal when they are, in
reality, the same. The following examples show this in decimal; but the
general problems exists in binary and all other bases, too.

Suppose you compute the slope of the line going through the origin (0,0)
and the point (1,2). The slope is simply 2. But, suppose the two points
are the origin (0,0) and the point (1, 2.00000...0001). To machine
accuracy, the second point (given enough implied zeroes) is
indistinguishable from the first. The distinct lines will appear to be
not just parallel, but also coincident.

Now try specifiying the first line, above, by two other points, such as
(1/3, 2/3) and (2/3, 4/3). To machine accuracy, these are
(0.333...333,0.666...667) and (0.666...667,1.333...333). Computing the
slope will give (0.666...6666/0.333...334) - watch the final digit
carefully - which is slightly less than a slope of 2, and not going
through the origin. A single line, here, appears to be distinct lines.
In general, depending on the exact two points and the effects of
rounding on all the numbers, you can get any results (e.g., the slope is
less than 2, equal to 2, or greater than 2). The slopes are all
approximately equal, but not idential.

I don�t know of any �easy answers� to floating point accuracy. I use
tests for exact equality when appropriate - based on understanding of
whatever problem I�m trying to solve, not rote translation of some
equation or procedure from a pure-math (i.e., infinite precision) to a
practical program. Exact equality is often not appropriate, at which
point some combination of absolute difference and relative difference is
generally effective - again, with the numeric tolerances based on
understanding of the problem being solved. I�ve even been able to use
"... even if off by a factor of a few billion, ..." - which is a
humungous percentage error.

Lynn Killingbeck




  parent reply	other threads:[~1997-08-02  0:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 105+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
1997-07-29  0:00 floating point comparison Matthew Heaney
1997-07-30  0:00 ` Jan Galkowski
1997-07-31  0:00   ` Don Taylor
1997-07-31  0:00     ` Russ Lyttle
1997-08-01  0:00       ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-08-02  0:00         ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-02  0:00           ` Matthew Heaney
1997-08-03  0:00             ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-04  0:00           ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-08-05  0:00             ` Jan-Christoph Puchta
1997-08-05  0:00               ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-08-05  0:00                 ` Samuel Mize
1997-08-06  0:00                 ` Chris L. Kuszmaul
1997-08-07  0:00                   ` Dave Sparks
1997-08-08  0:00                     ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-08  0:00                     ` Mark Eichin
1997-08-08  0:00                     ` Jan-Christoph Puchta
1997-08-09  0:00                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-10  0:00                       ` Lynn Killingbeck
     [not found]                   ` <5sbb90$qsc@redtail.cruzio.com>
     [not found]                     ` <5scugs$jdc$1@cnn.nas.nasa.gov>
1997-08-07  0:00                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-08  0:00                     ` Gerhard Heinzel
1997-08-08  0:00                       ` schlafly
1997-08-08  0:00                       ` Daniel Villeneuve
1997-08-09  0:00                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-09  0:00                         ` David Ullrich
1997-08-10  0:00                           ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-16  0:00                             ` Andrew V. Nesterov
1997-08-18  0:00                               ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-19  0:00                                 ` Hans Olsson
1997-08-19  0:00                                 ` Jim Carr
1997-08-21  0:00                                   ` Christian Bau
1997-08-21  0:00                                     ` Jim Carr
1997-08-21  0:00                                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-22  0:00                                         ` Jim Carr
1997-08-22  0:00                                           ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-23  0:00                                             ` Jim Carr
1997-08-24  0:00                                               ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-29  0:00                                                 ` Andrew V. Nesterov
1997-08-29  0:00                                                   ` Robert Dewar
     [not found]                                                     ` <340DF1DD.2736@iop.com>
1997-09-07  0:00                                                       ` Get_Immediate Robert Dewar
1997-09-07  0:00                                                       ` Get_Immediate Robert Dewar
1997-09-08  0:00                                                       ` Get_Immediate J Giffen
     [not found]                                                 ` <5u4eq6$30b$1@news.lth.se>
1997-08-29  0:00                                                   ` floating point comparison Robert Dewar
1997-09-01  0:00                                                     ` Chris RL Morgan
1997-09-01  0:00                                                 ` Jim Carr
     [not found]                                                   ` <checkerEFx6xI.FCM@netcom.com>
1997-09-03  0:00                                                     ` Chris L. Kuszmaul
1997-09-05  0:00                                                       ` Malome Khomo
1997-09-07  0:00                                                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-05  0:00                                                   ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-10  0:00                                                     ` Jim Carr
1997-09-12  0:00                                                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-15  0:00                                                         ` James Pauley
1997-09-16  0:00                                                           ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-23  0:00                                         ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-08-23  0:00                                           ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-30  0:00                                 ` Paul Eggert
1997-08-06  0:00                 ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-07  0:00                   ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
1997-08-08  0:00                     ` Peter Shenkin
1997-08-09  0:00                       ` Albert Y.C. Lai
1997-08-06  0:00             ` Robert Dewar
     [not found]               ` <33E8E3E1.17EA@pseserv3.fw.hac.com>
     [not found]                 ` <5sbgpk$q0n$1@goanna.cs.rmit.edu.au>
1997-08-07  0:00                   ` Robert Dewar
     [not found]                     ` <33FE4603.1B6B@pseserv3.fw.hac.com>
1997-08-23  0:00                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-08  0:00                   ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-08-06  0:00             ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-07  0:00               ` Dr. Rex A. Dwyer
     [not found]               ` <33E8DFF6.6F44@pseserv3.fw.hac.com>
1997-08-07  0:00                 ` Robert Dewar
     [not found]                 ` <33EA1251.3466@link.com>
     [not found]                   ` <33EA46CC.226@pseserv3.fw.hac.com>
1997-08-08  0:00                     ` Christian Bau
1997-08-12  0:00                     ` Martin Tom Brown
1997-08-23  0:00                       ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-08-23  0:00                         ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-05  0:00                         ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-09-06  0:00                           ` schlafly
1997-09-09  0:00                             ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-07  0:00                           ` M. J. Saltzman
1997-09-11  0:00                           ` Robin Rosenberg
1997-08-07  0:00             ` Do-While Jones
1997-08-03  0:00         ` Brian Rogoff
1997-08-03  0:00           ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-30  0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-30  0:00   ` Matthew Heaney
1997-07-31  0:00     ` Samuel Mize
1997-07-31  0:00     ` Bob Binder  (remove .mapson to email)
1997-07-31  0:00       ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-01  0:00         ` Dale Stanbrough
1997-08-04  0:00         ` Paul Eggert
1997-08-06  0:00           ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-14  0:00             ` Paul Eggert
1997-08-01  0:00       ` user
1997-08-02  0:00         ` Peter L. Montgomery
1997-08-04  0:00           ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-08-05  0:00             ` Bob Binder  (remove .mapson to email)
1997-08-02  0:00         ` Lynn Killingbeck
1997-08-03  0:00           ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-03  0:00           ` Bob Binder  (remove .mapson to email)
1997-08-03  0:00             ` Charles R. Lyttle
1997-07-31  0:00     ` Martin Tom Brown
1997-07-31  0:00     ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-02  0:00     ` Lynn Killingbeck [this message]
1997-07-30  0:00   ` Matthew Heaney
1997-07-31  0:00     ` Jim Carr
1997-07-31  0:00   ` Gerald Kasner
1997-07-31  0:00     ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-02  0:00 ` Michael Sierchio
1997-08-08  0:00 ` floating point conversions Mark Lusti
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