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From: Ken Garlington <kennieg@flash.net>
Subject: Re: The stupidity of all the Ariane 5 analysts.
Date: 1997/07/24
Date: 1997-07-24T00:00:00+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <33D7F5E9.5F38@flash.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: dewar.869670840@merv


Robert Dewar wrote:
> 
> Robert White said
> 
> <<  One could argue that the above is just a nit (flawed example) and
> the overall premise of DBC/Eiffel as a "silver bullet" panacea versus
> conventional "aerospace industry software engineering process" is
> the real issue.
> >>
> 
> Unfortunately the Ariane crash was the result of just such a nit!
> 
> I would think experience would teach us to be very suspicious of any
> claims by anyone to have a silver bullet panacea wjhen it comes to
> software engineering for large systems.
> 
> However tools and techniques that help, even a little bit, are welcome
> even if they are not a panacea (I consider Ada to be in this category,
> and I always find it annoying when people advertise Ada as being
> a silver bullet panacea).

I agree with this, but I also think every tool and technique has both
advantages _and risks_. Failing to understand the risks, and where they
are (and aren't) important, can lead to extremely dangerous choices made
with the best of intentions. I view executable assertions (Ada, Eiffel,
etc.) in this category. In some environments, they are clear wins. In
other
environments, I think it is at least debatable whether their advantages
outweigh their risks.

Complicating this factor is that many people confuse the abstract Good
Thing
(e.g. well-documented assumptions) with a specific implementation of the
Good Thing. They consider the Good Thing so obvious that they don't
consider
(a) what Bad Things may also be associated with the _implementation_ --
the
proponents of the implementation aren't always candid about this part
(or are
sometimes just blind to it) and (b) whether, for a given project, there
are better
ways to achieve the Good Thing.

As you've said in the past, Computer Science is in part a misnomer in
that
there doesn't seem to be much in the way of controlled experiments. So,
a
lot of these risk/reward analyses are based on incomplete data, at best.
This doesn't mean that they shouldn't be done, however. Ignoring the
risks
(or worse, dismisssing them as "they just haven't seen the light yet,"
as
Mr. Meyer did recently) is not smart in any environment, and certainly
not
in safety-critical systems.




  reply	other threads:[~1997-07-24  0:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 565+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <33957A33.1C31AB44@oma.com>
     [not found] ` <865898351snz@nezumi.demon.co.uk>
     [not found]   ` <339ED54C.215A5F85@oma.com>
     [not found]     ` <5noc8u$a8m$3@miranda.gmrc.gecm.com>
     [not found]       ` <33A032AC.2D8BA85C@oma.com>
     [not found]         ` <5nrn86$cvo$3@miranda.gmrc.gecm.com>
     [not found]           ` <33A1CBBB.B0602EC@oma.com>
     [not found]             ` <5o2uls$ku3$2@miranda.gmrc.gecm.com>
     [not found]               ` <33A6ADDA.2099EEB9@oma.com>
     [not found]                 ` <EBxM3y.8Eo@i2.COM>
     [not found]                   ` <33A7D2DE.545B@polaroid.com>
     [not found]                     ` <JSA.97Jun18155730@alexandria.organon.com>
1997-06-19  0:00                       ` Is ADA as good for graphics programming as C? (WAS: Re: Avoiding the second historic mistake) Mukesh Prasad
1997-06-19  0:00                         ` Is Ada " Jon S Anthony
1997-06-19  0:00                         ` Is ADA " Steve Jones - JON
1997-06-19  0:00                           ` Mukesh Prasad
1997-06-20  0:00                         ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-22  0:00                           ` Is ADA as good for graphics programming as C? (WAS: Jerry van Dijk
1997-06-21  0:00                         ` Is ADA as good for graphics programming as C? (WAS: Re: Avoiding the second historic mistake) Tim Harrison
1997-06-23  0:00                           ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-06-24  0:00                           ` John Goodsen
1997-06-25  0:00                             ` Michael Levasseur
1997-06-26  0:00                               ` Chris Brand
1997-07-02  0:00                               ` Matthew Heaney
1997-07-03  0:00                                 ` Donovan Baarda
1997-07-04  0:00                                   ` Matthew Heaney
1997-07-04  0:00                                     ` Donovan Baarda
1997-07-04  0:00                                       ` Brian Rogoff
1997-07-07  0:00                                         ` Donovan Baarda
1997-07-08  0:00                                           ` Brian Rogoff
1997-07-08  0:00                                           ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-09  0:00                                           ` Don Harrison
1997-07-05  0:00                                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-07  0:00                                         ` Donovan Baarda
1997-07-08  0:00                                           ` Canada Bass
1997-07-08  0:00                                             ` Dale Pontius
1997-07-08  0:00                                             ` Martin Tom Brown
1997-07-09  0:00                                           ` Matthew Heaney
1997-07-10  0:00                                             ` Nick Leaton
1997-07-10  0:00                                               ` Matthew Heaney
1997-07-11  0:00                                                 ` Nick Leaton
1997-07-14  0:00                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-15  0:00                                                   ` Matthew Heaney
1997-07-15  0:00                                                     ` Brian Rogoff
1997-07-16  0:00                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-17  0:00                                                       ` Matthew Heaney
1997-07-18  0:00                                                         ` Composition vs. Inheritance (was Re: Is ADA as good for graphics programming as C?) Robert I. Eachus
1997-07-19  0:00                                                         ` Is ADA as good for graphics programming as C? (WAS: Re: Avoiding the second historic mistake) Nasser
1997-07-20  0:00                                                           ` Brian Rogoff
1997-07-21  0:00                                                             ` Andrew Dunstan
1997-07-21  0:00                                                             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-21  0:00                                                           ` Jon S Anthony
     [not found]                                                         ` <01bc94e1$46912100$53aa20cc@default>
1997-07-20  0:00                                                           ` Is ADA as good for graphics programming as C? Matthew Heaney
1997-07-21  0:00                                                             ` Dennis Weldy
1997-07-21  0:00                                                           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-21  0:00                                                         ` Is ADA as good for graphics programming as C? (WAS: Re: Avoiding the second historic mistake) Robert C. Martin
1997-07-22  0:00                                                         ` Relative complexity - Eiffel and Ada Don Harrison
1997-07-15  0:00                                                   ` Is ADA as good for graphics programming as C? (WAS: Re: Avoiding the second historic mistake) Jon S Anthony
1997-07-15  0:00                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-15  0:00                                                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-15  0:00                                               ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-07-05  0:00                                       ` John Nagle
1997-07-09  0:00                                       ` Don Harrison
1997-07-09  0:00                                         ` Tucker Taft
1997-07-10  0:00                                           ` Safety-critical development in Ada and Eiffel Don Harrison
1997-07-10  0:00                                             ` Joe Gwinn
1997-07-11  0:00                                               ` Robert S. White
1997-07-15  0:00                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-15  0:00                                                   ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-16  0:00                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-10  0:00                                             ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-11  0:00                                               ` Ted Velkoff
1997-07-12  0:00                                                 ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-13  0:00                                                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-14  0:00                                                     ` Wes Groleau
1997-07-15  0:00                                                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-15  0:00                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-15  0:00                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-16  0:00                                                     ` Paul Johnson
1997-07-16  0:00                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-17  0:00                                                         ` Paul Johnson
1997-07-17  0:00                                                           ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-18  0:00                                                             ` Paul Johnson
1997-07-18  0:00                                                               ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-21  0:00                                                                 ` Paul Johnson
1997-07-18  0:00                                                               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-17  0:00                                                       ` Jon S Anthony
     [not found]                                                         ` <EDHqKo.K52@world.std.com>
1997-07-18  0:00                                                           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-19  0:00                                                             ` Robert A Duff
1997-07-20  0:00                                                               ` Tucker Taft
1997-07-10  0:00                                             ` Mike Stark
1997-07-11  0:00                                               ` Donovan Baarda
1997-07-13  0:00                                                 ` Steve Furlong
1997-07-16  0:00                                                   ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-17  0:00                                                     ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-17  0:00                                                     ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-18  0:00                                                     ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-18  0:00                                                       ` Nick Leaton
1997-07-18  0:00                                                         ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-18  0:00                                                     ` John Nagle
1997-07-18  0:00                                                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-11  0:00                                             ` Don Harrison
1997-07-11  0:00                                               ` James Graves
1997-07-14  0:00                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-12  0:00                                               ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-15  0:00                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-15  0:00                                                   ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-16  0:00                                                     ` Jean-Marc Jezequel
1997-07-16  0:00                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-17  0:00                                                         ` "Paul E. Bennett"
1997-07-17  0:00                                                           ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-17  0:00                                                         ` The stupidity of all the Ariane 5 analysts Thaddeus L. Olczyk
     [not found]                                                           ` <33CEAF05.6389@flash.net>
1997-07-20  0:00                                                             ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-07-21  0:00                                                               ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-31  0:00                                                                 ` Al Christians
1997-08-01  0:00                                                                   ` "Paul E. Bennett"
1997-08-01  0:00                                                                     ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-21  0:00                                                               ` Ian Begg
1997-07-21  0:00                                                                 ` Usefullness of design-by-contract (was Re: The stupidity of all the Ariane 5 analysts.) Jim Cochrane
1997-07-22  0:00                                                                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-22  0:00                                                                   ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-21  0:00                                                               ` The stupidity of all the Ariane 5 analysts Robert S. White
1997-07-21  0:00                                                                 ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-21  0:00                                                                   ` The presuppositions " Samuel Mize
1997-07-21  0:00                                                                     ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-22  0:00                                                                     ` Luther Hampton
1997-07-23  0:00                                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-23  0:00                                                                       ` Samuel Mize
1997-07-21  0:00                                                                 ` The stupidity " Ken Garlington
1997-07-23  0:00                                                                   ` Robert S. White
1997-07-23  0:00                                                                     ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-25  0:00                                                                       ` Robert S. White
1997-07-23  0:00                                                                     ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-24  0:00                                                                       ` Ken Garlington [this message]
1997-07-29  0:00                                                                       ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
1997-07-31  0:00                                                                         ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-01  0:00                                                                           ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
1997-08-04  0:00                                                                           ` Larry Kilgallen
1997-07-31  0:00                                                                         ` Warts was " Richard Irvine
1997-07-31  0:00                                                                           ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-05  0:00                                                                           ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
     [not found]                                                                             ` <5scqlr$ju@news.sei.cmu.edu>
1997-08-07  0:00                                                                               ` Brian Rogoff
1997-08-08  0:00                                                                                 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-08  0:00                                                                                   ` Brian Rogoff
1997-08-10  0:00                                                                                 ` Matthew Heaney
1997-08-10  0:00                                                                                   ` Brian Rogoff
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                     ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
     [not found]                                                                               ` <Pine.SGI.3.95.970807191944.13419A-100000@shellx <JSA.97Aug8161709@alexandria.organon.com>
1997-08-08  0:00                                                                                 ` Robert A Duff
1997-08-11  0:00                                                                                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-08  0:00                                                                         ` Don Harrison
1997-08-11  0:00                                                                           ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
1997-07-25  0:00                                                                     ` Ariane 5,Eiffel, Ada Alan Brain
1997-07-22  0:00                                                                 ` The stupidity of all the Ariane 5 analysts W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-07-23  0:00                                                               ` Joerg Rodemann
1997-07-18  0:00                                                         ` Safety-critical development in Ada and Eiffel - Ariane crash Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-18  0:00                                                           ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-17  0:00                                                     ` Safety-critical development in Ada and Eiffel Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-19  0:00                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-21  0:00                                                         ` Ada vs Eiffel (was: Safety-critical development in ...) W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-07-22  0:00                                                           ` Matt Kennel (Remove 'NOSPAM' to reply)
1997-07-21  0:00                                                       ` Safety-critical development in Ada and Eiffel Robert S. White
1997-07-20  0:00                                                         ` nabbasi
1997-07-21  0:00                                                           ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-07-18  0:00                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-18  0:00                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-22  0:00                                                         ` Don Harrison
1997-07-21  0:00                                                           ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-23  0:00                                                             ` Don Harrison
1997-07-23  0:00                                                               ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-07-24  0:00                                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-24  0:00                                                                   ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-26  0:00                                                                     ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-31  0:00                                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-28  0:00                                                                     ` Nick Leaton
1997-07-28  0:00                                                                       ` Steve Jones - JON
1997-07-31  0:00                                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-29  0:00                                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-31  0:00                                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-07  0:00                                                                         ` Don Harrison
1997-08-07  0:00                                                                           ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-09  0:00                                                                             ` Jim Cochrane
1997-08-11  0:00                                                                               ` Paul Johnson
1997-08-11  0:00                                                                                 ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-12  0:00                                                                                   ` Mark A Biggar
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                     ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                       ` Nick Leaton
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                       ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                         ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-20  0:00                                                                                           ` Lee Webber
1997-08-21  0:00                                                                                             ` Don Harrison
1997-08-23  0:00                                                                                               ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-20  0:00                                                                                           ` Nick Leaton
1997-08-21  0:00                                                                                             ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-08-21  0:00                                                                                             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-22  0:00                                                                                               ` Nick Leaton
1997-08-20  0:00                                                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-26  0:00                                                                                       ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                                   ` Paul Johnson
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                                     ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-15  0:00                                                                                       ` Paul Johnson
1997-08-15  0:00                                                                                         ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-18  0:00                                                                                           ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                             ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-20  0:00                                                                                               ` Nick Leaton
1997-08-20  0:00                                                                                                 ` Nasser
1997-08-21  0:00                                                                                                 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-22  0:00                                                                                                   ` Nick Leaton
1997-08-23  0:00                                                                                                     ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-21  0:00                                                                                               ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-08-23  0:00                                                                                                 ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-12  0:00                                                                             ` Don Harrison
1997-08-12  0:00                                                                               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-15  0:00                                                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-08-16  0:00                                                                                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                                   ` Samuel Mize
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                                     ` Robert A Duff
1997-08-14  0:00                                                                                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-15  0:00                                                                                       ` Don Harrison
1997-08-16  0:00                                                                                         ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                                 ` Ted Velkoff
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                                   ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                                     ` Ted Velkoff
1997-08-14  0:00                                                                                       ` Matt Austern
1997-08-14  0:00                                                                                         ` Ted Velkoff
1997-08-18  0:00                                                                                           ` Matt Austern
1997-08-20  0:00                                                                                             ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-08-21  0:00                                                                                               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-22  0:00                                                                                                 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-08-15  0:00                                                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-16  0:00                                                                                         ` Ted Velkoff
1997-08-16  0:00                                                                                           ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-16  0:00                                                                                             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-16  0:00                                                                                               ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-18  0:00                                                                                               ` Ted Velkoff
1997-08-18  0:00                                                                                             ` Ted Velkoff
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                               ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-14  0:00                                                                                     ` Nick Leaton
1997-08-16  0:00                                                                                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-18  0:00                                                                                       ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                         ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-21  0:00                                                                                           ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-08-23  0:00                                                                                             ` Ken Garlington
     [not found]                                                                                               ` <JSA.97Aug25181856@alexandria.organon.com>
     [not found]                                                                                                 ` <34023A1F.41C67EA6@eiffel.com>
1997-08-25  0:00                                                                                                   ` Design by Contract Bertrand Meyer
1997-08-25  0:00                                                                                                   ` Bertrand Meyer
     [not found]                                                                                                     ` <3402d123.0@news.uni-ulm.de>
1997-08-26  0:00                                                                                                       ` Nick Leaton
     [not found]                                                                                                         ` <3402e51d.0@news.uni-ulm.de>
     [not found]                                                                                                           ` <3402E8C9.3384D976@calfp.co.uk>
     [not found]                                                                                                             ` <dewar.872631036@merv>
1997-08-27  0:00                                                                                                               ` Matt Kennel (Remove 'NOSPAM' to reply)
     [not found]                                                                                                               ` <3403F668.F6B57D97@calfp.co.uk>
     [not found]                                                                                                                 ` <34041331.0@news.uni-ulm.de>
     [not found]                                                                                                                   ` <3404696D.4487EB71@eiffel.com>
1997-08-27  0:00                                                                                                                     ` Interface/Implementation (was Re: Design by Contract) Bertrand Meyer
     [not found]                                                                                                                       ` <34048FDC.13728473@eiffel.com>
1997-08-27  0:00                                                                                                                         ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-08-28  0:00                                                                                                                           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-29  0:00                                                                                                                             ` Robert Dewar
     [not found]                                                                                                                             ` <EForsv.Fqo@ecf.toronto.edu>
     [not found]                                                                                                                               ` <JSA.97Aug29191413@alexandria.organon.com>
     [not found]                                                                                                                                 ` <EFqDAG.2zn@ecf.toronto.edu>
1997-08-30  0:00                                                                                                                                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-02  0:00                                                                                                                                   ` Don Harrison
1997-09-02  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-03  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` Don Harrison
     [not found]                                                                                                                                     ` <EFwuzD.BxE@ecf.toronto.edu>
1997-09-04  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` Don Harrison
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                                         ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` Don Harrison
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Samuel Mize
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Don Harrison
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Joerg Rodemann
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                                   ` Joerg Rodemann
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                                                                                   ` Matt Austern
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                                     ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-13  0:00                                                                                                                                                     ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Robert S. White
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-13  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-13  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-16  0:00                                                                                                                                                   ` Brian Rogoff
1997-09-04  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` John G. Volan
1997-09-04  0:00                                                                                                                                         ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-06  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-08  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Paul Johnson
1997-09-06  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-08  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Matthew Heaney
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Paul Johnson
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Paul Johnson
1997-09-14  0:00                                                                                                                                                   ` Ken Garlington
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Robert S. White
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` Matt Kennel (Remove 'NOSPAM' to reply)
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` John Viega
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Matt Kennel (Remove 'NOSPAM' to reply)
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                                         ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                                         ` Franck Arnaud
1997-08-28  0:00                                                                                                                           ` Patrick Doyle
1997-08-28  0:00                                                                                                                             ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-08-28  0:00                                                                                                                       ` Tucker Taft
1997-08-28  0:00                                                                                                                         ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-08-28  0:00                                                                                                                           ` Jon S Anthony
     [not found]                                                                                                                             ` <EFnK8D.Lsv@ecf.toronto.edu>
1997-08-29  0:00                                                                                                                               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-30  0:00                                                                                                                                 ` Patrick Doyle
1997-08-30  0:00                                                                                                                                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-01  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` Patrick Doyle
1997-08-29  0:00                                                                                                                             ` Suzanne Zampella
1997-08-29  0:00                                                                                                                               ` Jon S Anthony
     [not found]                                                                                                                             ` <340E9BA2.32B3@rbgg252.rbg1.siemens.de>
1997-09-07  0:00                                                                                                                               ` Robert Dewar
     [not found]                                                                                                                         ` <3406A707.787D@dmu.ac.uk>
1997-08-29  0:00                                                                                                                           ` a fairy tale (was: Re: Interface/Implementation ) Fred Long
1997-08-29  0:00                                                                                                                           ` Interface/Implementation (was Re: Design by Contract) Joerg Rodemann
1997-08-29  0:00                                                                                                                             ` Ralph Paul
1997-09-01  0:00                                                                                                                           ` In defence of plain ascii files ( was " Chris RL Morgan
1997-09-01  0:00                                                                                                                           ` Don Harrison
1997-08-27  0:00                                                                                                               ` Design by Contract Ted Velkoff
     [not found]                                                                                                               ` <34050F3C.5A3A@invest.amp.com.au>
1997-08-28  0:00                                                                                                                 ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-29  0:00                                                                                                                   ` Paul Johnson
1997-08-31  0:00                                                                                                                     ` Matt Kennel (Remove 'NOSPAM' to reply)
1997-09-01  0:00                                                                                                                       ` John F. Bell III
1997-09-02  0:00                                                                                                                         ` Ken Garlington
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                           ` Robert Dewar
     [not found]                                                                                                                     ` <dewar.872887402@merv>
1997-09-02  0:00                                                                                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-09-03  0:00                                                                                                                         ` Thomas Beale
     [not found]                                                                                                                           ` <EFxx8q.2sw@ecf.toronto.edu>
1997-09-04  0:00                                                                                                                             ` Thomas Beale
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                         ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                           ` Ken Garlington
     [not found]                                                                                                         ` <340306E1.5FB64D70@XYZZYcalfp.com>
1997-08-28  0:00                                                                                                           ` Mark Bennison
1997-08-28  0:00                                                                                                             ` Separation of IF and Imp: process issue? Jeff Kotula
     [not found]                                                                                                               ` <x7vd8myyrzx.fsf@pogner.demon.co.uk>
1997-08-30  0:00                                                                                                                 ` Patrick Doyle
1997-08-31  0:00                                                                                                                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-01  0:00                                                                                                                     ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-01  0:00                                                                                                                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-02  0:00                                                                                                                         ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-03  0:00                                                                                                                           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                           ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                             ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-08  0:00                                                                                                                             ` Erik Magnuson
1997-09-02  0:00                                                                                                                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-03  0:00                                                                                                                         ` Patrick Doyle
     [not found]                                                                                                                   ` <x7vzppy250u.fsf@pogner.demon.co.uk>
1997-09-01  0:00                                                                                                                     ` Patrick Doyle
     [not found]                                                                                                                       ` <mheaney-ya023680000209972131260001@news.ni.net>
1997-09-03  0:00                                                                                                                         ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-04  0:00                                                                                                                           ` Matthew Heaney
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                             ` Darren New
1997-09-06  0:00                                                                                                                               ` Matthew Heaney
1997-09-07  0:00                                                                                                                                 ` Darren New
1997-09-08  0:00                                                                                                                                   ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-08  0:00                                                                                                                                   ` Darren New
1997-09-08  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` Matthew Heaney
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` John G. Volan
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` Fergus Henderson
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` Paul Johnson
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` Robert S. White
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` Darren New
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                         ` Nick Leaton
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Samuel T. Harris
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                         ` Mark A Biggar
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` Darren New
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Joerg Rodemann
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Darren New
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Joerg Rodemann
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                                   ` Darren New
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Peter Hermann
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                         ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` Matt Kennel (Remove 'NOSPAM' to reply)
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Brian Rogoff
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Robert A Duff
1997-09-13  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                         ` news_check.py
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                                                                         ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-16  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` Owen Fellows
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                   ` Joerg Rodemann
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` Precondition Checking For Ada 0X (Was: Separation of IF and Imp: process issue?) Matthew Heaney
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                         ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-15  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-16  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-16  0:00                                                                                                                                         ` Don Harrison
1997-09-16  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` Joerg Rodemann
1997-09-16  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-09-16  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Roger Browne
1997-09-16  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Robert A Duff
1997-09-17  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Franck Arnaud
1997-09-18  0:00                                                                                                                                                   ` Don Harrison
1997-09-18  0:00                                                                                                                                                     ` Robert A Duff
1997-09-18  0:00                                                                                                                                                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-18  0:00                                                                                                                                                       ` Juergen Schlegelmilch
1997-09-20  0:00                                                                                                                                                       ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-09-17  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-09-17  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Lee Webber
1997-09-16  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Owen Fellows
1997-09-17  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Don Harrison
1997-09-17  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Paul Johnson
1997-09-20  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` Matthew Heaney
1997-09-25  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Don Harrison
1997-09-25  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Matthew Heaney
1997-09-26  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-09-29  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` John G. Volan
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` Separation of IF and Imp: process issue? Joerg Rodemann
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` Nick Leaton
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-18  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                   ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` Darren New
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` Walter Mallory
     [not found]                                                                                                                               ` <dewar.873826268@merv>
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                 ` Samuel Mize
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                   ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` Scott Ingram
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                         ` Scott Ingram
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                                                                   ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                             ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-08  0:00                                                                                                                               ` John G. Volan
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                 ` Nick Leaton
1997-09-06  0:00                                                                                                                             ` Matt Kennel (Remove 'NOSPAM' to reply)
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                             ` Samuel Mize
1997-09-06  0:00                                                                                                                               ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-06  0:00                                                                                                                             ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-06  0:00                                                                                                                               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-07  0:00                                                                                                                                 ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-08  0:00                                                                                                                                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` Matthew Heaney
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` Samuel Mize
1997-09-06  0:00                                                                                                                             ` Matt Kennel (Remove 'NOSPAM' to reply)
1997-09-06  0:00                                                                                                                               ` Jon S Anthony
     [not found]                                                                                                               ` <5u4941$9m1@gcsin3.geccs.gecm.com>
1997-09-15  0:00                                                                                                                 ` Michael Gacsaly
     [not found]                                                                                                     ` <34026DE7.7D07@pseserv3.fw.hac.com>
     [not found]                                                                                                       ` <3402C404.56812AFB@XYZZYcalfp.com>
1997-08-27  0:00                                                                                                         ` A DBC experience (was Re: Design by Contract) Simon Wright
     [not found]                                                                                                         ` <5tvfdt$79g@inet-server.sit.fi>
     [not found]                                                                                                           ` <34050D8B.569F@deakin.edu.au>
1997-08-28  0:00                                                                                                             ` Richie Bielak
1997-08-29  0:00                                                                                                               ` Peter Horan
     [not found]                                                                                                     ` <bengtk-2708972209500001@sl35.modempool.kth.se>
1997-08-28  0:00                                                                                                       ` Design by Contract Nick Leaton
1997-08-25  0:00                                                                                                   ` Bertrand Meyer
     [not found]                                                                                                     ` <JSA.97Aug26151833@alexandria.organon.com>
1997-08-27  0:00                                                                                                       ` Patrick Doyle
1997-08-25  0:00                                                                                                   ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-08-25  0:00                                                                                                     ` Steve Stringfellow
1997-08-26  0:00                                                                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                                   ` Safety-critical development in Ada and Eiffel Jon S Anthony
1997-08-12  0:00                                                                               ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-23  0:00                                                                               ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-08-23  0:00                                                                                 ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-23  0:00                                                               ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-25  0:00                                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-15  0:00                                                   ` Wes Groleau
1997-07-15  0:00                                                     ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-16  0:00                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-16  0:00                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-16  0:00                                                         ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-17  0:00                                                           ` Paul Johnson
1997-07-17  0:00                                                             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-17  0:00                                                             ` Stuart Palin
1997-07-18  0:00                                                               ` Ian Rae
1997-07-18  0:00                                                               ` Paul Johnson
1997-07-18  0:00                                                             ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-18  0:00                                                           ` Don Harrison
1997-07-20  0:00                                                           ` Don Harrison
1997-07-18  0:00                                                     ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-07-21  0:00                                                       ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-07-16  0:00                                                   ` Warwick Pulley
1997-07-16  0:00                                                     ` Nick Leaton
1997-07-16  0:00                                                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-20  0:00                                                         ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-24  0:00                                                           ` Joe Buck
1997-07-24  0:00                                                           ` Paul M Gover
1997-07-26  0:00                                                             ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-28  0:00                                                               ` Robert S. White
1997-08-09  0:00                                                                 ` Marinos J. Yannikos
1997-08-10  0:00                                                                   ` Robert S. White
1997-08-11  0:00                                                                   ` Peter Hamer
1997-08-11  0:00                                                                     ` "Paul E. Bennett"
1997-07-29  0:00                                                               ` Don Harrison
1997-07-21  0:00                                                         ` Don Harrison
1997-07-17  0:00                                                       ` Warwick Pulley
1997-07-17  0:00                                                         ` Warwick Pulley
1997-07-17  0:00                                                         ` Nick Leaton
1997-07-17  0:00                                                           ` Richie Bielak
1997-07-17  0:00                                                             ` Samuel Tardieu
1997-07-17  0:00                                                               ` Richie Bielak
1997-07-23  0:00                                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-23  0:00                                                                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-24  0:00                                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-24  0:00                                                                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-23  0:00                                                                   ` Karel Th�nissen
1997-07-24  0:00                                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-24  0:00                                                                       ` Don Harrison
1997-07-24  0:00                                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-29  0:00                                                                         ` Don Harrison
1997-07-29  0:00                                                                           ` Ron Kohl
1997-07-29  0:00                                                                             ` Don Harrison
1997-07-30  0:00                                                                               ` Don Harrison
1997-07-31  0:00                                                                           ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-07  0:00                                                                             ` Don Harrison
1997-08-07  0:00                                                                               ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                                   ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-14  0:00                                                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-08-15  0:00                                                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                         ` Don Harrison
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                           ` Lee Webber
1997-08-20  0:00                                                                                           ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-21  0:00                                                                                             ` Don Harrison
1997-08-15  0:00                                                                                       ` Lee Webber
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                         ` Don Harrison
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                           ` Lee Webber
1997-08-15  0:00                                                                                       ` Don Harrison
1997-08-15  0:00                                                                                         ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-16  0:00                                                                                           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                           ` Don Harrison
1997-08-20  0:00                                                                                             ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-23  0:00                                                                   ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-25  0:00                                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-17  0:00                                                             ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-23  0:00                                                               ` Don Harrison
1997-07-23  0:00                                                                 ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-25  0:00                                                                   ` Don Harrison
1997-07-17  0:00                                                             ` Karel Th�nissen
1997-07-23  0:00                                                             ` Don Harrison
1997-07-23  0:00                                                               ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-25  0:00                                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-17  0:00                                                           ` Ken Garlington
     [not found]                                                           ` <JSA.97Jul17174044@alexandria.organon.com>
1997-07-18  0:00                                                             ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-18  0:00                                                             ` Nick Leaton
1997-07-17  0:00                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-17  0:00                                                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-18  0:00                                                         ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-19  0:00                                                           ` Robert A Duff
1997-07-20  0:00                                                             ` Use use type? (Was Re: Safety-critical development in Ada and Eiffel) Brian Rogoff
1997-07-21  0:00                                                               ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-21  0:00                                                               ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-21  0:00                                                                 ` Brian Rogoff
1997-07-22  0:00                                                                   ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-21  0:00                                                               ` Robert A Duff
1997-07-21  0:00                                                                 ` Brian Rogoff
1997-07-24  0:00                                                                 ` Morgan Palaeo Associates
1997-07-24  0:00                                                                   ` Jon S Anthony
     [not found]                                                                     ` <199707251337.PAA20933@basement.replay.com>
1997-07-26  0:00                                                                       ` Karel Th�nissen
1997-08-01  0:00                                                                     ` J-P. Rosen
1997-08-01  0:00                                                                       ` Robert A Duff
1997-08-02  0:00                                                                         ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-21  0:00                                                             ` Safety-critical development in Ada and Eiffel W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-07-21  0:00                                                         ` Don Harrison
1997-07-21  0:00                                                           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-21  0:00                                                             ` Brian Rogoff
1997-07-17  0:00                                                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-22  0:00                                                         ` Don Harrison
1997-07-17  0:00                                                       ` Karel Th�nissen
1997-07-21  0:00                                                         ` Don Harrison
1997-07-16  0:00                                               ` Alan Brain
1997-07-18  0:00                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-22  0:00                                                   ` Alan Brain
1997-07-22  0:00                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-23  0:00                                                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-24  0:00                                                         ` Don Harrison
1997-07-25  0:00                                                         ` Alan Brain
1997-07-25  0:00                                                           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-11  0:00                                             ` Don Harrison
1997-07-11  0:00                                             ` Kazimir Majorinc
1997-07-12  0:00                                               ` Ken Garlington
     [not found]                                     ` <slrn5rq1gc.che.abo@minkirri. <slrn5s1132.hf1.abo@minkirri.apana.org.au>
1997-07-08  0:00                                       ` Is ADA as good for graphics programming as C? (WAS: Re: Avoiding the second historic mistake) Richard Kenner
1997-07-08  0:00                                 ` Dale Pontius
     [not found]                             ` <33B16CBB.417A@gdesys <slrn5rn570.j6j.abo@minkirri.apana.org.au>
1997-07-04  0:00                               ` Samuel Mize
     [not found]                             ` <33B16CBB <slrn5rq1gc.che.abo@minkirri.apana.org.au>
1997-07-05  0:00                               ` Larry Kilgallen
1997-08-18  0:00 The stupidity of all the Ariane 5 analysts Joerg Rieling
1997-08-19  0:00 ` Robert S. White
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
1997-08-19  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
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