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From: Ken Garlington <kennieg@flash.net>
Subject: Re: Safety-critical development in Ada and Eiffel
Date: 1997/07/21
Date: 1997-07-21T00:00:00+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <33D43D93.6A8E@flash.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: EDpBvx.M18@syd.csa.com.au


Don Harrison wrote:
> 
> First, part of the reason it looks complicated is that it is only emulating
> (in Ada83) the real thing. As I've already said, I wouldn't implement assertions
> this way if I had the proper tools to work with. If you express it in Eiffel,
> it becomes simpler.

OK - could you post the Ada equivalent?

> Second, the compound condition represents a single higher level condition
> which can be declared as a function.

But doesn't that just postpone the complexity? Making the assertion
nearest
the point the reviewer is reading less clear, and requiring a search
through
other files to discover the meaning of the higher-level condition?

For that matter, if this is the correct method, why not do it in Ada?

> ..and lose the benefit of being able to execute it?

According to Meyer, the principle benefit is the documentation value.
As to execution (either during test or operation), see sections 3.2 and
3.3 of

   http://www.progsoc.uts.edu.au/~geldridg/eiffel/ariane/

> :... So, unless you propose teaching DBC
> :to all engineers in the program (which might not be a bad idea,
> :actually),
> 
> I agree, it would.

But unlikely, unfortunately, given the history of such attempts.

> I don't know what ADARTS is but it's one thing to be told you have to think
> of all assumptions and another to demonstrate you have as evidenced by coded
> assertions.

Again, from a documentation standpoint, why is writing code better than
documenting the assertions in a form the reviewer understands?

> 
> :I also challenge whether or not you code all of the assertions you can
> :envision.
> :Look at your example from earlier. There's absolutely no other
> :assertions you
> :could consider?
> 
> There may be others but so what? The existence of any I may not have thought
> of doesn't negate the effectiveness of those I *have* thought of.

But how do you draw the line between the assumptions you state and the
assumptions you leave silent?

And what does that do to the oft-said statement that Eiffel programmers
put in assertions for unlikely events?

> :How about the possibility that calling one of the
> :functions
> :in the assertion causes NO_OF_KEYS to become non-zero, just for fun?
> 
> As I don't write functions with side effects, I'm not sure why I would want to
> do that!..

More correctly stated, you don't _intend_ to write assumptions with side
effects, so you _assume_ there's no need to write an assertion to
confirm
that you, in fact, met your intent.

How do you catch software design faults in your code if you assume you
made
no mistakes in your code?

> Documented contracts are a good idea and may be appropriate for your domain.
> Their weakness is that they can't be enforced, so for *other* domains, I would
> prefer executable assertions.

A perfectly reasonable approach, for those domains that (a) can live
with
executable assertions and (b) where the documentation effect is best
expressed in code.

> There already was one, but it would be better to also have a higher level
> one for initialisation. This would aid testing in that if you fed in the
> wrong profile, you could verify that the IRS will not work. It wouldn't rely
> on the more obscure low-level assertion that was actually violated.
> 
> In IRS:
> 
>   set_operational_profile (profile: OPERATIONAL_PROFILE) is
>   require profile_compatible (profile)
>   do .. end

This would require that the profile be stored in memory, wouldn't it?
The profile is a textual/graphical description of the behavior of the
environment.

You might be able to express it as "The horizontal acceleration shall
not exceed xxx..." ... and in fact, it probably would make more sense
to express it exactly that way (in English!) so that it is clear at
the requirements level.

> BTW, this is intended to suggest what ought to done in engineering such
> software. This presupposes (among other things) that someone has actually sat
> down recognised the dependency of the IRS on the rocket dynamics. It is *not* a
> slap-on "remedy" to the non-existent software engineering that was practised
> in reality.
> 
> :  F-18     - divide by zero at Mach 1, due to incorrect control law
> :equation in spec.
> 
> There already was a predefined assertion for this - "you may not divide
> zero" - which presumably resulted in a numeric_error. This assertion correctly
> exposed an incorrect formula(?).

But how would the user write an Eiffel assertion to cover this? I know
that
Ada has pre-defined assertions, but how does the Eiffel coder write an
assertion that says "this equation has no errors?"

> 
> :  YF-22, Gripen - PIO due to incorrect control law equation in spec.
> :  (PIO is a complex lag interaction between the operator and the system -
> 
>   class SOME_CLASS
>     ...
>   invariant not PIO (..)
>   end
> 
> Likewise, this would expose the incorrect formula.

Unfortunately, PIO is not a formula, nor can it be sensed by the system.

It is an interaction between the
operator and the system. The system sees the operator telling it to
ascend, then descend, then ascend a little faster, then descend faster
still... which might be valid commands. However, what is actually
happening is that the pilot's sensory system is a little behind the
dynamics of the airframe. He's trying to level the aircraft, but
he's actually making the problem much worse. There are criteria that
can be used to analyze a system for such potential behavior, but
overcompensating for PIO can make the system too stable (not responsive
enough).

Try writing a post-condition that says, "user's favorite color
displayed on screen" (without being able to ask the user first) and
you'll see what I mean.

> 
> Don.
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> Don Harrison             donh@syd.csa.com.au




  reply	other threads:[~1997-07-21  0:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 576+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <33957A33.1C31AB44@oma.com>
     [not found] ` <865898351snz@nezumi.demon.co.uk>
     [not found]   ` <339ED54C.215A5F85@oma.com>
     [not found]     ` <5noc8u$a8m$3@miranda.gmrc.gecm.com>
     [not found]       ` <33A032AC.2D8BA85C@oma.com>
     [not found]         ` <5nrn86$cvo$3@miranda.gmrc.gecm.com>
     [not found]           ` <33A1CBBB.B0602EC@oma.com>
     [not found]             ` <5o2uls$ku3$2@miranda.gmrc.gecm.com>
     [not found]               ` <33A6ADDA.2099EEB9@oma.com>
     [not found]                 ` <EBxM3y.8Eo@i2.COM>
     [not found]                   ` <33A7D2DE.545B@polaroid.com>
     [not found]                     ` <JSA.97Jun18155730@alexandria.organon.com>
1997-06-19  0:00                       ` Is ADA as good for graphics programming as C? (WAS: Re: Avoiding the second historic mistake) Mukesh Prasad
1997-06-19  0:00                         ` Steve Jones - JON
1997-06-19  0:00                           ` Mukesh Prasad
1997-06-19  0:00                         ` Is Ada " Jon S Anthony
1997-06-20  0:00                         ` Is ADA " Robert Dewar
1997-06-22  0:00                           ` Is ADA as good for graphics programming as C? (WAS: Jerry van Dijk
1997-06-21  0:00                         ` Is ADA as good for graphics programming as C? (WAS: Re: Avoiding the second historic mistake) Tim Harrison
1997-06-23  0:00                           ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-06-24  0:00                           ` John Goodsen
1997-06-25  0:00                             ` Michael Levasseur
1997-06-26  0:00                               ` Chris Brand
1997-07-02  0:00                               ` Matthew Heaney
1997-07-03  0:00                                 ` Donovan Baarda
1997-07-04  0:00                                   ` Matthew Heaney
1997-07-04  0:00                                     ` Donovan Baarda
1997-07-04  0:00                                       ` Brian Rogoff
1997-07-07  0:00                                         ` Donovan Baarda
1997-07-08  0:00                                           ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-08  0:00                                           ` Brian Rogoff
1997-07-09  0:00                                           ` Don Harrison
1997-07-05  0:00                                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-07  0:00                                         ` Donovan Baarda
1997-07-08  0:00                                           ` Canada Bass
1997-07-08  0:00                                             ` Dale Pontius
1997-07-08  0:00                                             ` Martin Tom Brown
1997-07-09  0:00                                           ` Matthew Heaney
1997-07-10  0:00                                             ` Nick Leaton
1997-07-10  0:00                                               ` Matthew Heaney
1997-07-11  0:00                                                 ` Nick Leaton
1997-07-14  0:00                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-15  0:00                                                   ` Matthew Heaney
1997-07-15  0:00                                                     ` Brian Rogoff
1997-07-16  0:00                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-17  0:00                                                       ` Matthew Heaney
1997-07-18  0:00                                                         ` Composition vs. Inheritance (was Re: Is ADA as good for graphics programming as C?) Robert I. Eachus
1997-07-19  0:00                                                         ` Is ADA as good for graphics programming as C? (WAS: Re: Avoiding the second historic mistake) Nasser
1997-07-20  0:00                                                           ` Brian Rogoff
1997-07-21  0:00                                                             ` Andrew Dunstan
1997-07-21  0:00                                                             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-21  0:00                                                           ` Jon S Anthony
     [not found]                                                         ` <01bc94e1$46912100$53aa20cc@default>
1997-07-20  0:00                                                           ` Is ADA as good for graphics programming as C? Matthew Heaney
1997-07-21  0:00                                                             ` Dennis Weldy
1997-07-21  0:00                                                           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-21  0:00                                                         ` Is ADA as good for graphics programming as C? (WAS: Re: Avoiding the second historic mistake) Robert C. Martin
1997-07-22  0:00                                                         ` Relative complexity - Eiffel and Ada Don Harrison
1997-07-15  0:00                                                   ` Is ADA as good for graphics programming as C? (WAS: Re: Avoiding the second historic mistake) Jon S Anthony
1997-07-15  0:00                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-15  0:00                                                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-15  0:00                                               ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-07-05  0:00                                       ` John Nagle
1997-07-09  0:00                                       ` Don Harrison
1997-07-09  0:00                                         ` Tucker Taft
1997-07-10  0:00                                           ` Safety-critical development in Ada and Eiffel Don Harrison
1997-07-10  0:00                                             ` Joe Gwinn
1997-07-11  0:00                                               ` Robert S. White
1997-07-15  0:00                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-15  0:00                                                   ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-16  0:00                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-10  0:00                                             ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-11  0:00                                               ` Ted Velkoff
1997-07-12  0:00                                                 ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-13  0:00                                                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-14  0:00                                                     ` Wes Groleau
1997-07-15  0:00                                                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-15  0:00                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-15  0:00                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-16  0:00                                                     ` Paul Johnson
1997-07-16  0:00                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-17  0:00                                                         ` Paul Johnson
1997-07-17  0:00                                                           ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-18  0:00                                                             ` Paul Johnson
1997-07-18  0:00                                                               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-18  0:00                                                               ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-21  0:00                                                                 ` Paul Johnson
1997-07-17  0:00                                                       ` Jon S Anthony
     [not found]                                                         ` <EDHqKo.K52@world.std.com>
1997-07-18  0:00                                                           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-19  0:00                                                             ` Robert A Duff
1997-07-20  0:00                                                               ` Tucker Taft
1997-07-10  0:00                                             ` Mike Stark
1997-07-11  0:00                                               ` Donovan Baarda
1997-07-13  0:00                                                 ` Steve Furlong
1997-07-16  0:00                                                   ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-17  0:00                                                     ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-17  0:00                                                     ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-18  0:00                                                     ` John Nagle
1997-07-18  0:00                                                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-18  0:00                                                     ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-18  0:00                                                       ` Nick Leaton
1997-07-18  0:00                                                         ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-11  0:00                                             ` Kazimir Majorinc
1997-07-12  0:00                                               ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-11  0:00                                             ` Don Harrison
1997-07-11  0:00                                               ` James Graves
1997-07-14  0:00                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-12  0:00                                               ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-15  0:00                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-15  0:00                                                   ` Wes Groleau
1997-07-15  0:00                                                     ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-16  0:00                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-16  0:00                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-16  0:00                                                         ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-17  0:00                                                           ` Paul Johnson
1997-07-17  0:00                                                             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-17  0:00                                                             ` Stuart Palin
1997-07-18  0:00                                                               ` Paul Johnson
1997-07-18  0:00                                                               ` Ian Rae
1997-07-18  0:00                                                             ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-18  0:00                                                           ` Don Harrison
1997-07-20  0:00                                                           ` Don Harrison
1997-07-18  0:00                                                     ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-07-21  0:00                                                       ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-07-15  0:00                                                   ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-16  0:00                                                     ` Jean-Marc Jezequel
1997-07-16  0:00                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-17  0:00                                                         ` The stupidity of all the Ariane 5 analysts Thaddeus L. Olczyk
     [not found]                                                           ` <33CEAF05.6389@flash.net>
1997-07-20  0:00                                                             ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-07-21  0:00                                                               ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-31  0:00                                                                 ` Al Christians
1997-08-01  0:00                                                                   ` "Paul E. Bennett"
1997-08-01  0:00                                                                     ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-21  0:00                                                               ` Ian Begg
1997-07-21  0:00                                                                 ` Usefullness of design-by-contract (was Re: The stupidity of all the Ariane 5 analysts.) Jim Cochrane
1997-07-22  0:00                                                                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-22  0:00                                                                   ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-21  0:00                                                               ` The stupidity of all the Ariane 5 analysts Robert S. White
1997-07-21  0:00                                                                 ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-21  0:00                                                                   ` The presuppositions " Samuel Mize
1997-07-21  0:00                                                                     ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-22  0:00                                                                     ` Luther Hampton
1997-07-23  0:00                                                                       ` Samuel Mize
1997-07-23  0:00                                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-21  0:00                                                                 ` The stupidity " Ken Garlington
1997-07-23  0:00                                                                   ` Robert S. White
1997-07-23  0:00                                                                     ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-25  0:00                                                                       ` Robert S. White
1997-07-23  0:00                                                                     ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-24  0:00                                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-29  0:00                                                                       ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
1997-07-31  0:00                                                                         ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-01  0:00                                                                           ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
1997-08-04  0:00                                                                           ` Larry Kilgallen
1997-07-31  0:00                                                                         ` Warts was " Richard Irvine
1997-07-31  0:00                                                                           ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-05  0:00                                                                           ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
     [not found]                                                                             ` <5scqlr$ju@news.sei.cmu.edu>
1997-08-07  0:00                                                                               ` Brian Rogoff
1997-08-08  0:00                                                                                 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-08  0:00                                                                                   ` Brian Rogoff
1997-08-10  0:00                                                                                 ` Matthew Heaney
1997-08-10  0:00                                                                                   ` Brian Rogoff
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                     ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
     [not found]                                                                               ` <Pine.SGI.3.95.970807191944.13419A-100000@shellx <JSA.97Aug8161709@alexandria.organon.com>
1997-08-08  0:00                                                                                 ` Robert A Duff
1997-08-11  0:00                                                                                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-08  0:00                                                                         ` Don Harrison
1997-08-11  0:00                                                                           ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
1997-07-25  0:00                                                                     ` Ariane 5,Eiffel, Ada Alan Brain
1997-07-22  0:00                                                                 ` The stupidity of all the Ariane 5 analysts W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-07-23  0:00                                                               ` Joerg Rodemann
1997-07-17  0:00                                                         ` Safety-critical development in Ada and Eiffel "Paul E. Bennett"
1997-07-17  0:00                                                           ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-18  0:00                                                         ` Safety-critical development in Ada and Eiffel - Ariane crash Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-18  0:00                                                           ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-17  0:00                                                     ` Safety-critical development in Ada and Eiffel Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-19  0:00                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-21  0:00                                                         ` Ada vs Eiffel (was: Safety-critical development in ...) W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-07-22  0:00                                                           ` Matt Kennel (Remove 'NOSPAM' to reply)
1997-07-21  0:00                                                       ` Safety-critical development in Ada and Eiffel Robert S. White
1997-07-20  0:00                                                         ` nabbasi
1997-07-21  0:00                                                           ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-07-18  0:00                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-18  0:00                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-22  0:00                                                         ` Don Harrison
1997-07-21  0:00                                                           ` Ken Garlington [this message]
1997-07-23  0:00                                                             ` Don Harrison
1997-07-23  0:00                                                               ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-25  0:00                                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-23  0:00                                                               ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-07-24  0:00                                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-24  0:00                                                                   ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-26  0:00                                                                     ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-31  0:00                                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-28  0:00                                                                     ` Nick Leaton
1997-07-28  0:00                                                                       ` Steve Jones - JON
1997-07-31  0:00                                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-29  0:00                                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-31  0:00                                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-07  0:00                                                                         ` Don Harrison
1997-08-07  0:00                                                                           ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-09  0:00                                                                             ` Jim Cochrane
1997-08-11  0:00                                                                               ` Paul Johnson
1997-08-11  0:00                                                                                 ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-12  0:00                                                                                   ` Mark A Biggar
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                     ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                       ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                         ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-20  0:00                                                                                           ` Lee Webber
1997-08-21  0:00                                                                                             ` Don Harrison
1997-08-23  0:00                                                                                               ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-20  0:00                                                                                           ` Nick Leaton
1997-08-21  0:00                                                                                             ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-08-21  0:00                                                                                             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-22  0:00                                                                                               ` Nick Leaton
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                       ` Nick Leaton
1997-08-20  0:00                                                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-26  0:00                                                                                       ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                                   ` Paul Johnson
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                                     ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-15  0:00                                                                                       ` Paul Johnson
1997-08-15  0:00                                                                                         ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-18  0:00                                                                                           ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                             ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-20  0:00                                                                                               ` Nick Leaton
1997-08-20  0:00                                                                                                 ` Nasser
1997-08-21  0:00                                                                                                 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-22  0:00                                                                                                   ` Nick Leaton
1997-08-23  0:00                                                                                                     ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-21  0:00                                                                                               ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-08-23  0:00                                                                                                 ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-12  0:00                                                                             ` Don Harrison
1997-08-12  0:00                                                                               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                                 ` Ted Velkoff
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                                   ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                                     ` Ted Velkoff
1997-08-14  0:00                                                                                       ` Matt Austern
1997-08-14  0:00                                                                                         ` Ted Velkoff
1997-08-18  0:00                                                                                           ` Matt Austern
1997-08-20  0:00                                                                                             ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-08-21  0:00                                                                                               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-22  0:00                                                                                                 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-08-15  0:00                                                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-16  0:00                                                                                         ` Ted Velkoff
1997-08-16  0:00                                                                                           ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-16  0:00                                                                                             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-16  0:00                                                                                               ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-18  0:00                                                                                               ` Ted Velkoff
1997-08-18  0:00                                                                                             ` Ted Velkoff
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                               ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-14  0:00                                                                                     ` Nick Leaton
1997-08-16  0:00                                                                                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-18  0:00                                                                                       ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                         ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-21  0:00                                                                                           ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-08-23  0:00                                                                                             ` Ken Garlington
     [not found]                                                                                               ` <JSA.97Aug25181856@alexandria.organon.com>
     [not found]                                                                                                 ` <34023A1F.41C67EA6@eiffel.com>
1997-08-25  0:00                                                                                                   ` Design by Contract Bertrand Meyer
1997-08-25  0:00                                                                                                   ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-08-25  0:00                                                                                                     ` Steve Stringfellow
1997-08-26  0:00                                                                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-08-25  0:00                                                                                                   ` Bertrand Meyer
     [not found]                                                                                                     ` <JSA.97Aug26151833@alexandria.organon.com>
1997-08-27  0:00                                                                                                       ` Patrick Doyle
1997-08-25  0:00                                                                                                   ` Bertrand Meyer
     [not found]                                                                                                     ` <3402d123.0@news.uni-ulm.de>
1997-08-26  0:00                                                                                                       ` Nick Leaton
     [not found]                                                                                                         ` <3402e51d.0@news.uni-ulm.de>
     [not found]                                                                                                           ` <3402E8C9.3384D976@calfp.co.uk>
     [not found]                                                                                                             ` <dewar.872631036@merv>
1997-08-27  0:00                                                                                                               ` Matt Kennel (Remove 'NOSPAM' to reply)
1997-08-27  0:00                                                                                                               ` Ted Velkoff
     [not found]                                                                                                               ` <3403F668.F6B57D97@calfp.co.uk>
     [not found]                                                                                                                 ` <34041331.0@news.uni-ulm.de>
     [not found]                                                                                                                   ` <3404696D.4487EB71@eiffel.com>
1997-08-27  0:00                                                                                                                     ` Interface/Implementation (was Re: Design by Contract) Bertrand Meyer
     [not found]                                                                                                                       ` <34048FDC.13728473@eiffel.com>
1997-08-27  0:00                                                                                                                         ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-08-28  0:00                                                                                                                           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-29  0:00                                                                                                                             ` Robert Dewar
     [not found]                                                                                                                             ` <EForsv.Fqo@ecf.toronto.edu>
     [not found]                                                                                                                               ` <JSA.97Aug29191413@alexandria.organon.com>
     [not found]                                                                                                                                 ` <EFqDAG.2zn@ecf.toronto.edu>
1997-08-30  0:00                                                                                                                                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-02  0:00                                                                                                                                   ` Don Harrison
1997-09-02  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-03  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` Don Harrison
     [not found]                                                                                                                                     ` <EFwuzD.BxE@ecf.toronto.edu>
1997-09-04  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` Don Harrison
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                                         ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` Don Harrison
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Samuel Mize
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Don Harrison
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Joerg Rodemann
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                                                                                   ` Matt Austern
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                                     ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-13  0:00                                                                                                                                                     ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                                   ` Joerg Rodemann
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Robert S. White
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-13  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-13  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-16  0:00                                                                                                                                                   ` Brian Rogoff
1997-09-04  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` John G. Volan
1997-09-04  0:00                                                                                                                                         ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-06  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-08  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Paul Johnson
1997-09-06  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-08  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Robert S. White
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Paul Johnson
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Paul Johnson
1997-09-14  0:00                                                                                                                                                   ` Ken Garlington
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Matthew Heaney
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` Matt Kennel (Remove 'NOSPAM' to reply)
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` John Viega
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Matt Kennel (Remove 'NOSPAM' to reply)
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                                         ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                                         ` Franck Arnaud
1997-08-28  0:00                                                                                                                           ` Patrick Doyle
1997-08-28  0:00                                                                                                                             ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-08-28  0:00                                                                                                                       ` Tucker Taft
1997-08-28  0:00                                                                                                                         ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-08-28  0:00                                                                                                                           ` Jon S Anthony
     [not found]                                                                                                                             ` <EFnK8D.Lsv@ecf.toronto.edu>
1997-08-29  0:00                                                                                                                               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-30  0:00                                                                                                                                 ` Patrick Doyle
1997-08-30  0:00                                                                                                                                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-01  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` Patrick Doyle
1997-08-29  0:00                                                                                                                             ` Suzanne Zampella
1997-08-29  0:00                                                                                                                               ` Jon S Anthony
     [not found]                                                                                                                             ` <340E9BA2.32B3@rbgg252.rbg1.siemens.de>
1997-09-07  0:00                                                                                                                               ` Robert Dewar
     [not found]                                                                                                                         ` <3406A707.787D@dmu.ac.uk>
1997-08-29  0:00                                                                                                                           ` a fairy tale (was: Re: Interface/Implementation ) Fred Long
1997-08-29  0:00                                                                                                                           ` Interface/Implementation (was Re: Design by Contract) Joerg Rodemann
1997-08-29  0:00                                                                                                                             ` Ralph Paul
1997-09-01  0:00                                                                                                                           ` Don Harrison
1997-09-01  0:00                                                                                                                           ` In defence of plain ascii files ( was " Chris RL Morgan
     [not found]                                                                                                               ` <34050F3C.5A3A@invest.amp.com.au>
1997-08-28  0:00                                                                                                                 ` Design by Contract Robert Dewar
1997-08-29  0:00                                                                                                                   ` Paul Johnson
1997-08-31  0:00                                                                                                                     ` Matt Kennel (Remove 'NOSPAM' to reply)
1997-09-01  0:00                                                                                                                       ` John F. Bell III
1997-09-02  0:00                                                                                                                         ` Ken Garlington
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                           ` Robert Dewar
     [not found]                                                                                                                     ` <dewar.872887402@merv>
1997-09-02  0:00                                                                                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-09-03  0:00                                                                                                                         ` Thomas Beale
     [not found]                                                                                                                           ` <EFxx8q.2sw@ecf.toronto.edu>
1997-09-04  0:00                                                                                                                             ` Thomas Beale
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                         ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                           ` Ken Garlington
     [not found]                                                                                                         ` <340306E1.5FB64D70@XYZZYcalfp.com>
1997-08-28  0:00                                                                                                           ` Mark Bennison
1997-08-28  0:00                                                                                                             ` Separation of IF and Imp: process issue? Jeff Kotula
     [not found]                                                                                                               ` <x7vd8myyrzx.fsf@pogner.demon.co.uk>
1997-08-30  0:00                                                                                                                 ` Patrick Doyle
1997-08-31  0:00                                                                                                                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-01  0:00                                                                                                                     ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-01  0:00                                                                                                                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-02  0:00                                                                                                                         ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-03  0:00                                                                                                                           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                           ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                             ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-08  0:00                                                                                                                             ` Erik Magnuson
1997-09-02  0:00                                                                                                                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-03  0:00                                                                                                                         ` Patrick Doyle
     [not found]                                                                                                                   ` <x7vzppy250u.fsf@pogner.demon.co.uk>
1997-09-01  0:00                                                                                                                     ` Patrick Doyle
     [not found]                                                                                                                       ` <mheaney-ya023680000209972131260001@news.ni.net>
1997-09-03  0:00                                                                                                                         ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-04  0:00                                                                                                                           ` Matthew Heaney
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                             ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-08  0:00                                                                                                                               ` John G. Volan
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                 ` Nick Leaton
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                             ` Darren New
1997-09-06  0:00                                                                                                                               ` Matthew Heaney
1997-09-07  0:00                                                                                                                                 ` Darren New
1997-09-08  0:00                                                                                                                                   ` Darren New
1997-09-08  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` Matthew Heaney
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` John G. Volan
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` Fergus Henderson
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` Paul Johnson
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` Robert S. White
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` Darren New
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                         ` Nick Leaton
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Samuel T. Harris
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                         ` Mark A Biggar
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Peter Hermann
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` Darren New
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Joerg Rodemann
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Darren New
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Joerg Rodemann
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                                   ` Darren New
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                         ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` Matt Kennel (Remove 'NOSPAM' to reply)
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Brian Rogoff
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Robert A Duff
1997-09-13  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                         ` news_check.py
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                                                                         ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-16  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` Owen Fellows
1997-09-08  0:00                                                                                                                                   ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                   ` Joerg Rodemann
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` Nick Leaton
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` Joerg Rodemann
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` Precondition Checking For Ada 0X (Was: Separation of IF and Imp: process issue?) Matthew Heaney
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                         ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-15  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-16  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-16  0:00                                                                                                                                         ` Don Harrison
1997-09-16  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` Joerg Rodemann
1997-09-16  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-09-16  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Owen Fellows
1997-09-16  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Roger Browne
1997-09-16  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Robert A Duff
1997-09-17  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Lee Webber
1997-09-17  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Franck Arnaud
1997-09-18  0:00                                                                                                                                                   ` Don Harrison
1997-09-18  0:00                                                                                                                                                     ` Robert A Duff
1997-09-18  0:00                                                                                                                                                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-18  0:00                                                                                                                                                       ` Juergen Schlegelmilch
1997-09-20  0:00                                                                                                                                                       ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-09-17  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-09-17  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Paul Johnson
1997-09-17  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Don Harrison
1997-09-20  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` Matthew Heaney
1997-09-25  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Don Harrison
1997-09-25  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Matthew Heaney
1997-09-26  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-09-29  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` John G. Volan
1997-09-18  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` Separation of IF and Imp: process issue? Robert Dewar
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                   ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` Walter Mallory
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` Darren New
     [not found]                                                                                                                               ` <dewar.873826268@merv>
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                 ` Samuel Mize
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                   ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` Scott Ingram
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                         ` Scott Ingram
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                                                                   ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-06  0:00                                                                                                                             ` Matt Kennel (Remove 'NOSPAM' to reply)
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                             ` Samuel Mize
1997-09-06  0:00                                                                                                                               ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-06  0:00                                                                                                                             ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-06  0:00                                                                                                                               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-07  0:00                                                                                                                                 ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-08  0:00                                                                                                                                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` Samuel Mize
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` Matthew Heaney
1997-09-06  0:00                                                                                                                             ` Matt Kennel (Remove 'NOSPAM' to reply)
1997-09-06  0:00                                                                                                                               ` Jon S Anthony
     [not found]                                                                                                               ` <5u4941$9m1@gcsin3.geccs.gecm.com>
1997-09-15  0:00                                                                                                                 ` Michael Gacsaly
     [not found]                                                                                                     ` <34026DE7.7D07@pseserv3.fw.hac.com>
     [not found]                                                                                                       ` <3402C404.56812AFB@XYZZYcalfp.com>
1997-08-27  0:00                                                                                                         ` A DBC experience (was Re: Design by Contract) Simon Wright
     [not found]                                                                                                         ` <5tvfdt$79g@inet-server.sit.fi>
     [not found]                                                                                                           ` <34050D8B.569F@deakin.edu.au>
1997-08-28  0:00                                                                                                             ` Richie Bielak
1997-08-29  0:00                                                                                                               ` Peter Horan
     [not found]                                                                                                     ` <bengtk-2708972209500001@sl35.modempool.kth.se>
1997-08-28  0:00                                                                                                       ` Design by Contract Nick Leaton
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                                   ` Safety-critical development in Ada and Eiffel Jon S Anthony
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-15  0:00                                                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-08-16  0:00                                                                                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                                   ` Samuel Mize
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                                     ` Robert A Duff
1997-08-14  0:00                                                                                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-15  0:00                                                                                       ` Don Harrison
1997-08-16  0:00                                                                                         ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-12  0:00                                                                               ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-23  0:00                                                                               ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-08-23  0:00                                                                                 ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-16  0:00                                                   ` Warwick Pulley
1997-07-16  0:00                                                     ` Nick Leaton
1997-07-16  0:00                                                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-20  0:00                                                         ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-24  0:00                                                           ` Joe Buck
1997-07-24  0:00                                                           ` Paul M Gover
1997-07-26  0:00                                                             ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-28  0:00                                                               ` Robert S. White
1997-08-09  0:00                                                                 ` Marinos J. Yannikos
1997-08-10  0:00                                                                   ` Robert S. White
1997-08-11  0:00                                                                   ` Peter Hamer
1997-08-11  0:00                                                                     ` "Paul E. Bennett"
1997-07-29  0:00                                                               ` Don Harrison
1997-07-21  0:00                                                         ` Don Harrison
1997-07-17  0:00                                                       ` Warwick Pulley
1997-07-17  0:00                                                         ` Nick Leaton
1997-07-17  0:00                                                           ` Richie Bielak
1997-07-17  0:00                                                             ` Karel Th�nissen
1997-07-17  0:00                                                             ` Samuel Tardieu
1997-07-17  0:00                                                               ` Richie Bielak
1997-07-23  0:00                                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-23  0:00                                                                   ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-25  0:00                                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-23  0:00                                                                   ` Karel Th�nissen
1997-07-24  0:00                                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-24  0:00                                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-29  0:00                                                                         ` Don Harrison
1997-07-29  0:00                                                                           ` Ron Kohl
1997-07-29  0:00                                                                             ` Don Harrison
1997-07-30  0:00                                                                               ` Don Harrison
1997-07-31  0:00                                                                           ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-07  0:00                                                                             ` Don Harrison
1997-08-07  0:00                                                                               ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                                   ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-14  0:00                                                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-08-15  0:00                                                                                       ` Don Harrison
1997-08-15  0:00                                                                                         ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-16  0:00                                                                                           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                           ` Don Harrison
1997-08-20  0:00                                                                                             ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-15  0:00                                                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                         ` Don Harrison
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                           ` Lee Webber
1997-08-20  0:00                                                                                           ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-21  0:00                                                                                             ` Don Harrison
1997-08-15  0:00                                                                                       ` Lee Webber
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                         ` Don Harrison
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                           ` Lee Webber
1997-07-24  0:00                                                                       ` Don Harrison
1997-07-23  0:00                                                                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-24  0:00                                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-24  0:00                                                                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-17  0:00                                                             ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-23  0:00                                                               ` Don Harrison
1997-07-23  0:00                                                                 ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-25  0:00                                                                   ` Don Harrison
1997-07-23  0:00                                                             ` Don Harrison
1997-07-23  0:00                                                               ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-25  0:00                                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-17  0:00                                                           ` Ken Garlington
     [not found]                                                           ` <JSA.97Jul17174044@alexandria.organon.com>
1997-07-18  0:00                                                             ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-18  0:00                                                             ` Nick Leaton
1997-07-17  0:00                                                         ` Warwick Pulley
1997-07-17  0:00                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-17  0:00                                                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-22  0:00                                                         ` Don Harrison
1997-07-17  0:00                                                       ` Karel Th�nissen
1997-07-21  0:00                                                         ` Don Harrison
1997-07-17  0:00                                                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-18  0:00                                                         ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-19  0:00                                                           ` Robert A Duff
1997-07-20  0:00                                                             ` Use use type? (Was Re: Safety-critical development in Ada and Eiffel) Brian Rogoff
1997-07-21  0:00                                                               ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-21  0:00                                                                 ` Brian Rogoff
1997-07-22  0:00                                                                   ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-21  0:00                                                               ` Robert A Duff
1997-07-21  0:00                                                                 ` Brian Rogoff
1997-07-24  0:00                                                                 ` Morgan Palaeo Associates
1997-07-24  0:00                                                                   ` Jon S Anthony
     [not found]                                                                     ` <199707251337.PAA20933@basement.replay.com>
1997-07-26  0:00                                                                       ` Karel Th�nissen
1997-08-01  0:00                                                                     ` J-P. Rosen
1997-08-01  0:00                                                                       ` Robert A Duff
1997-08-02  0:00                                                                         ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-21  0:00                                                               ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-21  0:00                                                             ` Safety-critical development in Ada and Eiffel W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-07-21  0:00                                                         ` Don Harrison
1997-07-21  0:00                                                           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-21  0:00                                                             ` Brian Rogoff
1997-07-16  0:00                                               ` Alan Brain
1997-07-18  0:00                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-22  0:00                                                   ` Alan Brain
1997-07-22  0:00                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-23  0:00                                                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-24  0:00                                                         ` Don Harrison
1997-07-25  0:00                                                         ` Alan Brain
1997-07-25  0:00                                                           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-11  0:00                                             ` Don Harrison
     [not found]                                     ` <slrn5rq1gc.che.abo@minkirri. <slrn5s1132.hf1.abo@minkirri.apana.org.au>
1997-07-08  0:00                                       ` Is ADA as good for graphics programming as C? (WAS: Re: Avoiding the second historic mistake) Richard Kenner
1997-07-08  0:00                                 ` Dale Pontius
     [not found]                             ` <33B16CBB.417A@gdesys <slrn5rn570.j6j.abo@minkirri.apana.org.au>
1997-07-04  0:00                               ` Samuel Mize
     [not found]                             ` <33B16CBB <slrn5rq1gc.che.abo@minkirri.apana.org.au>
1997-07-05  0:00                               ` Larry Kilgallen
1997-07-17  0:00 Safety-critical development in Ada and Eiffel Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
1997-07-17  0:00 ` Samuel Mize
1997-07-17  0:00   ` Ken Garlington
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
1997-07-18  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
1997-07-22  0:00 ` Karel Th�nissen
1997-07-18  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
1997-07-18  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
1997-07-18  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
1997-07-21  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
1997-07-21  0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-21  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
1997-07-21  0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-24  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
1997-08-24  0:00 Robert Dewar
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