From: Ken Garlington <kennieg@flash.net>
Subject: Re: Safety-critical development in Ada and Eiffel
Date: 1997/07/21
Date: 1997-07-21T00:00:00+00:00 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <33D3F842.5F70@flash.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 97072110371803@psavax.pwfl.com
Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96 wrote:
>
> Ken Garlington <kennieg@FLASH.NET> writes:
> >> What does this have to do with the problem under discussion? I agree that
> >> this can happen, but why does the ability to enable and disable assertions
> >> cause any new problems?
> >
> >Because I have seen compilers that generate correct code with one set of
> >compiler options enabled, and a different (incorrect) set with a
> >different
> >set of options enabled. As with the timing issue above, I can do all of
> >my testing with assertions enabled, and have no clue whether or not the
> >code will still work after I disable those assertions (due to a compiler
> >bug). Again, this is a Bad Thing for safety-critical systems.
> >
> Let me ask a question about the way you work in your environment.
> I presume you have some group who is responsible for verification
> of whatever code you produce. Would they find it at all acceptable
> to change the contents of so much as one bit in an image without
> requiring some level of reverification of that image?
No.
>
> We sort of tolerate *some* change, limited to a set of constants
> which need to be tuned for engine trim - sometimes overall trim
> for a type of engine, sometimes trim for a specific engine.
> (Depends on the project) But even then, the constants are given
> their own part number and are run through some abbreviated set of
> tests in the lab before being accepted as safe to send out the
> door.
Yes. We do the same thing, under the same conditions (in fact, on one
project I
work, the data file contains the expected version of the Pratt engine
software,
so that we can do on-board cross-checking of the environment
consistency!)
>
> But the question of changing even a single word in the program
> image is unacceptable to our test group unless I can guarantee
> that by changing that word there is no conceivable way of causing
> the engine to come to harm or otherwise causing the control to
> malfunction. Since I can't do that, we never change an image in
> any way without reverification. Hence, verifying with compiler
> switch X set to "assertions enabled" then recompiling with switch
> X set to "assertions disabled" and presuming this is O.K. is not
> an option. Verification for us is also quite expensive and will
> eventually involve engine test stand time, so doing it twice is
> not economically viable.
Exactly correct, as I said above.
>
> What I'd like to know is if we're unique in this requirement. Your
> IRS computers are also tasked with mission critical
> responsibilities and I'd like to get the thumbnail sketch as to
> what your verification and CM people find acceptable.
Actually, I build flight controls that integrate with IRSs (and engines
:),
but we hold all three organizations to the process you describe. The
IRSs, by the say, are safety-critical on one project I work.
Say hello to Louie Celiberti for me!
>
> MDC
>
> Marin David Condic, Senior Computer Engineer ATT: 561.796.8997
> Pratt & Whitney GESP, M/S 731-96, P.O.B. 109600 Fax: 561.796.4669
> West Palm Beach, FL, 33410-9600 Internet: CONDICMA@PWFL.COM
> ===============================================================================
> "You spend a billion here and a billion there. Sooner or later it
> adds up to real money."
> -- Everett Dirksen
> ===============================================================================
next prev parent reply other threads:[~1997-07-21 0:00 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 255+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
1997-07-21 0:00 Safety-critical development in Ada and Eiffel Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
1997-07-21 0:00 ` Ken Garlington [this message]
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
1997-08-24 0:00 Robert Dewar
1997-07-24 0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
1997-07-21 0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
1997-07-21 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-18 0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
1997-07-18 0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
1997-07-22 0:00 ` Karel Th�nissen
1997-07-18 0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
1997-07-18 0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
1997-07-17 0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
1997-07-17 0:00 ` Samuel Mize
1997-07-17 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-09 0:00 Is ADA as good for graphics programming as C? (WAS: Re: Avoiding the second historic mistake) Tucker Taft
1997-07-10 0:00 ` Safety-critical development in Ada and Eiffel Don Harrison
1997-07-10 0:00 ` Mike Stark
1997-07-11 0:00 ` Donovan Baarda
1997-07-13 0:00 ` Steve Furlong
1997-07-16 0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-17 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-17 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-18 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-18 0:00 ` Nick Leaton
1997-07-18 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-18 0:00 ` John Nagle
1997-07-18 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-10 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-11 0:00 ` Ted Velkoff
1997-07-12 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-13 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-14 0:00 ` Wes Groleau
1997-07-15 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-15 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-15 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-16 0:00 ` Paul Johnson
1997-07-16 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-17 0:00 ` Paul Johnson
1997-07-17 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-18 0:00 ` Paul Johnson
1997-07-18 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-18 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-21 0:00 ` Paul Johnson
1997-07-17 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
[not found] ` <EDHqKo.K52@world.std.com>
1997-07-18 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-19 0:00 ` Robert A Duff
1997-07-20 0:00 ` Tucker Taft
1997-07-10 0:00 ` Joe Gwinn
1997-07-11 0:00 ` Robert S. White
1997-07-15 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-15 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-16 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-11 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-11 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-11 0:00 ` James Graves
1997-07-14 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-12 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-15 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-15 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-16 0:00 ` Jean-Marc Jezequel
1997-07-16 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-17 0:00 ` "Paul E. Bennett"
1997-07-17 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-17 0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-19 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-21 0:00 ` Robert S. White
1997-07-20 0:00 ` nabbasi
1997-07-21 0:00 ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-07-18 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-18 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-22 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-21 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-23 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-23 0:00 ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-07-24 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-24 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-26 0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-31 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-28 0:00 ` Nick Leaton
1997-07-28 0:00 ` Steve Jones - JON
1997-07-31 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-29 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-31 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-07 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-08-07 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-09 0:00 ` Jim Cochrane
1997-08-11 0:00 ` Paul Johnson
1997-08-11 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-12 0:00 ` Mark A Biggar
1997-08-19 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-19 0:00 ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-08-19 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-20 0:00 ` Nick Leaton
1997-08-21 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-22 0:00 ` Nick Leaton
1997-08-21 0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-08-20 0:00 ` Lee Webber
1997-08-21 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-08-23 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-19 0:00 ` Nick Leaton
1997-08-20 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-26 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1997-08-13 0:00 ` Paul Johnson
1997-08-13 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-15 0:00 ` Paul Johnson
1997-08-15 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-18 0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-08-19 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-20 0:00 ` Nick Leaton
1997-08-20 0:00 ` Nasser
1997-08-21 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-22 0:00 ` Nick Leaton
1997-08-23 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-21 0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-08-23 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-12 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-08-12 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-12 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-13 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-08-13 0:00 ` Samuel Mize
1997-08-13 0:00 ` Robert A Duff
1997-08-14 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-15 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-08-16 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-13 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-15 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-08-16 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-13 0:00 ` Ted Velkoff
1997-08-13 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-13 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-13 0:00 ` Ted Velkoff
1997-08-14 0:00 ` Matt Austern
1997-08-14 0:00 ` Ted Velkoff
1997-08-18 0:00 ` Matt Austern
1997-08-20 0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-08-21 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-22 0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-08-15 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-16 0:00 ` Ted Velkoff
1997-08-16 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-16 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-16 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-18 0:00 ` Ted Velkoff
1997-08-18 0:00 ` Ted Velkoff
1997-08-19 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-14 0:00 ` Nick Leaton
1997-08-16 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-18 0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-08-19 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-21 0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-08-23 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-23 0:00 ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-08-23 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-23 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-25 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-15 0:00 ` Wes Groleau
1997-07-15 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-16 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-16 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-16 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-17 0:00 ` Paul Johnson
1997-07-17 0:00 ` Stuart Palin
1997-07-18 0:00 ` Paul Johnson
1997-07-18 0:00 ` Ian Rae
1997-07-17 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-18 0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-18 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-20 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-18 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-07-21 0:00 ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-07-16 0:00 ` Warwick Pulley
1997-07-16 0:00 ` Nick Leaton
1997-07-16 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-20 0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-24 0:00 ` Paul M Gover
1997-07-26 0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-28 0:00 ` Robert S. White
1997-08-09 0:00 ` Marinos J. Yannikos
1997-08-10 0:00 ` Robert S. White
1997-08-11 0:00 ` Peter Hamer
1997-08-11 0:00 ` "Paul E. Bennett"
1997-07-29 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-24 0:00 ` Joe Buck
1997-07-21 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-17 0:00 ` Warwick Pulley
1997-07-17 0:00 ` Warwick Pulley
1997-07-17 0:00 ` Nick Leaton
1997-07-17 0:00 ` Richie Bielak
1997-07-17 0:00 ` Karel Th�nissen
1997-07-17 0:00 ` Samuel Tardieu
1997-07-17 0:00 ` Richie Bielak
1997-07-23 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-23 0:00 ` Karel Th�nissen
1997-07-24 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-24 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-24 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-29 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-29 0:00 ` Ron Kohl
1997-07-29 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-30 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-31 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-07 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-08-07 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-13 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-08-13 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-14 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-08-15 0:00 ` Lee Webber
1997-08-19 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-08-19 0:00 ` Lee Webber
1997-08-15 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-08-15 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-16 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-19 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-08-20 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-15 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-19 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-08-19 0:00 ` Lee Webber
1997-08-20 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-21 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-23 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-25 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-23 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-24 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-24 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-17 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-23 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-23 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-25 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-23 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-23 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-25 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-17 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
[not found] ` <JSA.97Jul17174044@alexandria.organon.com>
1997-07-18 0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-18 0:00 ` Nick Leaton
1997-07-17 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-17 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-22 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-17 0:00 ` Karel Th�nissen
1997-07-21 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-17 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-18 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-19 0:00 ` Robert A Duff
1997-07-21 0:00 ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-07-21 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-21 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-21 0:00 ` Brian Rogoff
1997-07-16 0:00 ` Alan Brain
1997-07-18 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-22 0:00 ` Alan Brain
1997-07-22 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-23 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-24 0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-25 0:00 ` Alan Brain
1997-07-25 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-11 0:00 ` Kazimir Majorinc
1997-07-12 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
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