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From: Ken Garlington <kennieg@flash.net>
Subject: Re: Safety-critical development in Ada and Eiffel
Date: 1997/07/17
Date: 1997-07-17T00:00:00+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <33CEB710.6A14@flash.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 33CE8ECD.41DE@link.com


Samuel Mize wrote:
> 
> The Ariane crash proves that properly-managed DBC would be
> better than DBMG (Design By Management Guesswork).  It neither
> supports nor refutes the thesis that DBC is better than other
> responsible/traditional engineering methods.
> 
> I can't say that Meyer et al. intended to imply otherwise, but
> it is certainly a reasonable inference for the reader to draw,
> given the paper.  That inference angered some people.

By the way, if anyone wants to read the two papers for themselves:

Ariane V final report:

   http://www.esrin.esa.it/htdocs/tidc/Press/Press96/ariane5rep.html

Eiffel paper on Ariane V:

  
http://www.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/contract/ariane/index.html

which contains the now-infamous quote:

   "Does this mean that the crash would automatically have been
   avoided had the mission used a language and method supporting
built-in
   assertions and Design by Contract? Although it is always risky to
draw
   such after-the-fact conclusions, the answer is probably yes:"

Note the term "language and method." As explained later in the paper,
only Eiffel meets the required criteria. Both are required, per Meyer.

> 
> Samuel Mize




  reply	other threads:[~1997-07-17  0:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 255+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
1997-07-17  0:00 Safety-critical development in Ada and Eiffel Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
1997-07-17  0:00 ` Samuel Mize
1997-07-17  0:00   ` Ken Garlington [this message]
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
1997-08-24  0:00 Robert Dewar
1997-07-24  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
1997-07-21  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
1997-07-21  0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-21  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
1997-07-21  0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-18  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
1997-07-18  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
1997-07-18  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
1997-07-22  0:00 ` Karel Th�nissen
1997-07-18  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
1997-07-09  0:00 Is ADA as good for graphics programming as C? (WAS: Re: Avoiding the second historic mistake) Tucker Taft
1997-07-10  0:00 ` Safety-critical development in Ada and Eiffel Don Harrison
1997-07-10  0:00   ` Mike Stark
1997-07-11  0:00     ` Donovan Baarda
1997-07-13  0:00       ` Steve Furlong
1997-07-16  0:00         ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-17  0:00           ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-17  0:00           ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-18  0:00           ` John Nagle
1997-07-18  0:00             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-18  0:00           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-18  0:00             ` Nick Leaton
1997-07-18  0:00               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-10  0:00   ` Joe Gwinn
1997-07-11  0:00     ` Robert S. White
1997-07-15  0:00       ` Don Harrison
1997-07-15  0:00         ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-16  0:00           ` Don Harrison
1997-07-10  0:00   ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-11  0:00     ` Ted Velkoff
1997-07-12  0:00       ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-13  0:00         ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-14  0:00           ` Wes Groleau
1997-07-15  0:00             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-15  0:00           ` Don Harrison
1997-07-15  0:00             ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-16  0:00           ` Paul Johnson
1997-07-16  0:00             ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-17  0:00               ` Paul Johnson
1997-07-17  0:00                 ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-18  0:00                   ` Paul Johnson
1997-07-18  0:00                     ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-21  0:00                       ` Paul Johnson
1997-07-18  0:00                     ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-17  0:00             ` Jon S Anthony
     [not found]               ` <EDHqKo.K52@world.std.com>
1997-07-18  0:00                 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-19  0:00                   ` Robert A Duff
1997-07-20  0:00                     ` Tucker Taft
1997-07-11  0:00   ` Don Harrison
1997-07-11  0:00   ` Don Harrison
1997-07-11  0:00     ` James Graves
1997-07-14  0:00       ` Don Harrison
1997-07-12  0:00     ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-15  0:00       ` Don Harrison
1997-07-15  0:00         ` Wes Groleau
1997-07-15  0:00           ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-16  0:00           ` Don Harrison
1997-07-16  0:00             ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-16  0:00               ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-17  0:00                 ` Paul Johnson
1997-07-17  0:00                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-17  0:00                   ` Stuart Palin
1997-07-18  0:00                     ` Ian Rae
1997-07-18  0:00                     ` Paul Johnson
1997-07-18  0:00                   ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-18  0:00                 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-20  0:00                 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-18  0:00           ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-07-21  0:00             ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-07-15  0:00         ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-16  0:00           ` Jean-Marc Jezequel
1997-07-16  0:00             ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-17  0:00               ` "Paul E. Bennett"
1997-07-17  0:00                 ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-17  0:00           ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-19  0:00             ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-21  0:00             ` Robert S. White
1997-07-20  0:00               ` nabbasi
1997-07-21  0:00                 ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-07-18  0:00           ` Don Harrison
1997-07-18  0:00             ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-22  0:00               ` Don Harrison
1997-07-21  0:00                 ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-23  0:00                   ` Don Harrison
1997-07-23  0:00                     ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-25  0:00                       ` Don Harrison
1997-07-23  0:00                     ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-07-24  0:00                       ` Don Harrison
1997-07-24  0:00                         ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-26  0:00                           ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-31  0:00                             ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-28  0:00                           ` Nick Leaton
1997-07-28  0:00                             ` Steve Jones - JON
1997-07-31  0:00                             ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-29  0:00                           ` Don Harrison
1997-07-31  0:00                             ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-07  0:00                               ` Don Harrison
1997-08-07  0:00                                 ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-09  0:00                                   ` Jim Cochrane
1997-08-11  0:00                                     ` Paul Johnson
1997-08-11  0:00                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-12  0:00                                         ` Mark A Biggar
1997-08-19  0:00                                           ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-19  0:00                                             ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-08-19  0:00                                               ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-20  0:00                                                 ` Nick Leaton
1997-08-21  0:00                                                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-22  0:00                                                     ` Nick Leaton
1997-08-21  0:00                                                   ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-08-20  0:00                                                 ` Lee Webber
1997-08-21  0:00                                                   ` Don Harrison
1997-08-23  0:00                                                     ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-19  0:00                                             ` Nick Leaton
1997-08-20  0:00                                             ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-26  0:00                                             ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1997-08-13  0:00                                         ` Paul Johnson
1997-08-13  0:00                                           ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-15  0:00                                             ` Paul Johnson
1997-08-15  0:00                                               ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-18  0:00                                                 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-08-19  0:00                                                   ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-20  0:00                                                     ` Nick Leaton
1997-08-20  0:00                                                       ` Nasser
1997-08-21  0:00                                                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-22  0:00                                                         ` Nick Leaton
1997-08-23  0:00                                                           ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-21  0:00                                                     ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-08-23  0:00                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-12  0:00                                   ` Don Harrison
1997-08-12  0:00                                     ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-12  0:00                                     ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-13  0:00                                       ` Ted Velkoff
1997-08-13  0:00                                         ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-13  0:00                                         ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-13  0:00                                           ` Ted Velkoff
1997-08-14  0:00                                             ` Matt Austern
1997-08-14  0:00                                               ` Ted Velkoff
1997-08-18  0:00                                                 ` Matt Austern
1997-08-20  0:00                                                   ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-08-21  0:00                                                     ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-22  0:00                                                       ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-08-15  0:00                                             ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-16  0:00                                               ` Ted Velkoff
1997-08-16  0:00                                                 ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-16  0:00                                                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-16  0:00                                                     ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-18  0:00                                                     ` Ted Velkoff
1997-08-18  0:00                                                   ` Ted Velkoff
1997-08-19  0:00                                                     ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-14  0:00                                           ` Nick Leaton
1997-08-16  0:00                                             ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-18  0:00                                             ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-08-19  0:00                                               ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-21  0:00                                                 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-08-23  0:00                                                   ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-13  0:00                                       ` Don Harrison
1997-08-13  0:00                                         ` Samuel Mize
1997-08-13  0:00                                           ` Robert A Duff
1997-08-14  0:00                                             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-15  0:00                                             ` Don Harrison
1997-08-16  0:00                                               ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-13  0:00                                         ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-15  0:00                                           ` Don Harrison
1997-08-16  0:00                                             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-23  0:00                                     ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-08-23  0:00                                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-16  0:00         ` Warwick Pulley
1997-07-16  0:00           ` Nick Leaton
1997-07-16  0:00             ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-20  0:00               ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-24  0:00                 ` Paul M Gover
1997-07-26  0:00                   ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-28  0:00                     ` Robert S. White
1997-08-09  0:00                       ` Marinos J. Yannikos
1997-08-10  0:00                         ` Robert S. White
1997-08-11  0:00                         ` Peter Hamer
1997-08-11  0:00                           ` "Paul E. Bennett"
1997-07-29  0:00                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-24  0:00                 ` Joe Buck
1997-07-21  0:00               ` Don Harrison
1997-07-17  0:00             ` Warwick Pulley
1997-07-17  0:00               ` Nick Leaton
1997-07-17  0:00                 ` Richie Bielak
1997-07-17  0:00                   ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-23  0:00                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-23  0:00                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-25  0:00                         ` Don Harrison
1997-07-17  0:00                   ` Karel Th�nissen
1997-07-17  0:00                   ` Samuel Tardieu
1997-07-17  0:00                     ` Richie Bielak
1997-07-23  0:00                       ` Don Harrison
1997-07-23  0:00                         ` Karel Th�nissen
1997-07-24  0:00                           ` Don Harrison
1997-07-24  0:00                             ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-29  0:00                               ` Don Harrison
1997-07-29  0:00                                 ` Ron Kohl
1997-07-29  0:00                                   ` Don Harrison
1997-07-30  0:00                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-31  0:00                                 ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-07  0:00                                   ` Don Harrison
1997-08-07  0:00                                     ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-13  0:00                                       ` Don Harrison
1997-08-13  0:00                                         ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-14  0:00                                           ` Don Harrison
1997-08-15  0:00                                             ` Don Harrison
1997-08-15  0:00                                               ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-16  0:00                                                 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-19  0:00                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-08-20  0:00                                                   ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-15  0:00                                             ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-19  0:00                                               ` Don Harrison
1997-08-19  0:00                                                 ` Lee Webber
1997-08-20  0:00                                                 ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-21  0:00                                                   ` Don Harrison
1997-08-15  0:00                                             ` Lee Webber
1997-08-19  0:00                                               ` Don Harrison
1997-08-19  0:00                                                 ` Lee Webber
1997-07-24  0:00                             ` Don Harrison
1997-07-23  0:00                         ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-25  0:00                           ` Don Harrison
1997-07-23  0:00                         ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-24  0:00                           ` Don Harrison
1997-07-24  0:00                             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-23  0:00                   ` Don Harrison
1997-07-23  0:00                     ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-25  0:00                       ` Don Harrison
1997-07-17  0:00                 ` Ken Garlington
     [not found]                 ` <JSA.97Jul17174044@alexandria.organon.com>
1997-07-18  0:00                   ` Nick Leaton
1997-07-18  0:00                   ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-17  0:00               ` Warwick Pulley
1997-07-17  0:00           ` Don Harrison
1997-07-17  0:00             ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-18  0:00               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-19  0:00                 ` Robert A Duff
1997-07-21  0:00                   ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-07-21  0:00               ` Don Harrison
1997-07-21  0:00                 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-21  0:00                   ` Brian Rogoff
1997-07-17  0:00             ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-22  0:00               ` Don Harrison
1997-07-17  0:00             ` Karel Th�nissen
1997-07-21  0:00               ` Don Harrison
1997-07-16  0:00     ` Alan Brain
1997-07-18  0:00       ` Don Harrison
1997-07-22  0:00         ` Alan Brain
1997-07-22  0:00           ` Don Harrison
1997-07-23  0:00             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-24  0:00               ` Don Harrison
1997-07-25  0:00               ` Alan Brain
1997-07-25  0:00                 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-11  0:00   ` Kazimir Majorinc
1997-07-12  0:00     ` Ken Garlington
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