comp.lang.ada
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: Ken Garlington <keg0@flash.net>
Subject: Re: Safety-critical development in Ada and Eiffel
Date: 1997/07/16
Date: 1997-07-16T00:00:00+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <33CC64CE.44A3@flash.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: EDE06A.5zt@syd.csa.com.au


Don Harrison wrote:
> 
> More than likely the Ariane bug would
> have been picked up by traditional means (since it's fairly obvious) but in
> the event that it wasn't, it would certainly have been identified if
> the assumption was identified and coded as an assertion.

...and the same traditional means (testing to the actual Ariane V data)
were used to test the system (otherwise the assertion would never have
been exercised). Thus:

1. If the assertion was not identified and coded as an assertion, but
traditional means were used, the problem would have been discovered.

2. If the assertion had been identified and coded as an assertion, but
traditional means were NOT used, the problem would NOT have been
discovered.

So, since traditional methods were required anyway, how did adding the
assertion (either the Ada "Operand_Error" or your Eiffel equivalent)
help for this example?

Meyer et. al. argues that, if the system was written in Eiffel, that
the assertion would have been added despite the lack of foundation for
doing so in the specification, and that reviews of the code would have
found the inconsistency between the code and specification, causing the
designers to ask the specification writers why they thought the Ariane V
profile was the same as the Ariane IV. Thus, even without the testing,
the Eiffel system would have uncovered the fault. My argument is that
no designer of a non-trivial safety-critical software system could be
expected to either (a) have such an all-encompassing knowledge of the
total platform to either write or analyze such a complex and subtle
assertion or (b) be willing to add assertions willy-nilly with no basis
in the specification (extranous code being identified as a potential
safety issue in more than one certification scheme).

(As an amusing aside, the defenders of the Eiffel faith were reduced to
calling my objections "casuistry," or using an inappropriate specific
case to prove a general statement. This argument, of course, is using
a specific case to prove a _specific case_. One could argue that the
Eiffel paper produced by Meyer et. al. was a better definition of
casuistry, however!)

> 
> :Or in your own words:
> :
> :> No use of assertions will stop you misinterpreting requirements.
> 
> True, though irrelevant to the point I wasn't making. :)

Not at all irrelevant, unless you claim that assertion writing
is not coupled to requirements (which is a very dangerous claim!).
If you look at failures in safety-critical aerospace software systems
(and I've done more than one study on this),  they tend to be
requirements-driven (e.g. F-18, YF-22, Gripen, Ariane V). More than
one controlled N-version academic study has shown this as well. (One
of the best was where multiple teams implemented a set of flight
control laws, using a basic safety-critical software development
process along the lines of DO-178. There was only one common
fault among all of them - a period in the requirements had been
misinterpreted as a comma due to the poor quality of the paper
version of the control laws!)

You could argue that assertions make the process of eliminating
design faults easier, thus allowing your finite test time to
focus on requirements issues earlier. However, I've talked to
people who build safety-critical aerospace systems (and also read
Safeware,
et. al.) and those kind of issues are usually resolved fairly
quickly in *any* good safety-critical software development process.
There may be some benefit to assertions in this environment, but
it's pretty small when measured against the potential risks.

Again, for a non-safety-critical system, where there may be a
higher proportion of design faults, then you probably do see a
larger benefit (I know I do) for dynamic assertions. For
safety-critical systems that can fail-safe, vs. those that must
fail-operate, I could also see some benefits (although that
class of systems seems to be shirnking every day). However,
beware casuistry! :)

> 
> Don.
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> Don Harrison             donh@syd.csa.com.au




  reply	other threads:[~1997-07-16  0:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 576+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <33957A33.1C31AB44@oma.com>
     [not found] ` <865898351snz@nezumi.demon.co.uk>
     [not found]   ` <339ED54C.215A5F85@oma.com>
     [not found]     ` <5noc8u$a8m$3@miranda.gmrc.gecm.com>
     [not found]       ` <33A032AC.2D8BA85C@oma.com>
     [not found]         ` <5nrn86$cvo$3@miranda.gmrc.gecm.com>
     [not found]           ` <33A1CBBB.B0602EC@oma.com>
     [not found]             ` <5o2uls$ku3$2@miranda.gmrc.gecm.com>
     [not found]               ` <33A6ADDA.2099EEB9@oma.com>
     [not found]                 ` <EBxM3y.8Eo@i2.COM>
     [not found]                   ` <33A7D2DE.545B@polaroid.com>
     [not found]                     ` <JSA.97Jun18155730@alexandria.organon.com>
1997-06-19  0:00                       ` Is ADA as good for graphics programming as C? (WAS: Re: Avoiding the second historic mistake) Mukesh Prasad
1997-06-19  0:00                         ` Is Ada " Jon S Anthony
1997-06-19  0:00                         ` Is ADA " Steve Jones - JON
1997-06-19  0:00                           ` Mukesh Prasad
1997-06-20  0:00                         ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-22  0:00                           ` Is ADA as good for graphics programming as C? (WAS: Jerry van Dijk
1997-06-21  0:00                         ` Is ADA as good for graphics programming as C? (WAS: Re: Avoiding the second historic mistake) Tim Harrison
1997-06-23  0:00                           ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-06-24  0:00                           ` John Goodsen
1997-06-25  0:00                             ` Michael Levasseur
1997-06-26  0:00                               ` Chris Brand
1997-07-02  0:00                               ` Matthew Heaney
1997-07-03  0:00                                 ` Donovan Baarda
1997-07-04  0:00                                   ` Matthew Heaney
1997-07-04  0:00                                     ` Donovan Baarda
1997-07-04  0:00                                       ` Brian Rogoff
1997-07-07  0:00                                         ` Donovan Baarda
1997-07-08  0:00                                           ` Brian Rogoff
1997-07-08  0:00                                           ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-09  0:00                                           ` Don Harrison
1997-07-05  0:00                                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-07  0:00                                         ` Donovan Baarda
1997-07-08  0:00                                           ` Canada Bass
1997-07-08  0:00                                             ` Dale Pontius
1997-07-08  0:00                                             ` Martin Tom Brown
1997-07-09  0:00                                           ` Matthew Heaney
1997-07-10  0:00                                             ` Nick Leaton
1997-07-10  0:00                                               ` Matthew Heaney
1997-07-11  0:00                                                 ` Nick Leaton
1997-07-14  0:00                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-15  0:00                                                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-15  0:00                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-15  0:00                                                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-15  0:00                                                   ` Matthew Heaney
1997-07-15  0:00                                                     ` Brian Rogoff
1997-07-16  0:00                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-17  0:00                                                       ` Matthew Heaney
1997-07-18  0:00                                                         ` Composition vs. Inheritance (was Re: Is ADA as good for graphics programming as C?) Robert I. Eachus
1997-07-19  0:00                                                         ` Is ADA as good for graphics programming as C? (WAS: Re: Avoiding the second historic mistake) Nasser
1997-07-20  0:00                                                           ` Brian Rogoff
1997-07-21  0:00                                                             ` Andrew Dunstan
1997-07-21  0:00                                                             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-21  0:00                                                           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-21  0:00                                                         ` Robert C. Martin
     [not found]                                                         ` <01bc94e1$46912100$53aa20cc@default>
1997-07-20  0:00                                                           ` Is ADA as good for graphics programming as C? Matthew Heaney
1997-07-21  0:00                                                             ` Dennis Weldy
1997-07-21  0:00                                                           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-22  0:00                                                         ` Relative complexity - Eiffel and Ada Don Harrison
1997-07-15  0:00                                               ` Is ADA as good for graphics programming as C? (WAS: Re: Avoiding the second historic mistake) Robert I. Eachus
1997-07-05  0:00                                       ` John Nagle
1997-07-09  0:00                                       ` Don Harrison
1997-07-09  0:00                                         ` Tucker Taft
1997-07-10  0:00                                           ` Safety-critical development in Ada and Eiffel Don Harrison
1997-07-10  0:00                                             ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-11  0:00                                               ` Ted Velkoff
1997-07-12  0:00                                                 ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-13  0:00                                                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-14  0:00                                                     ` Wes Groleau
1997-07-15  0:00                                                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-15  0:00                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-15  0:00                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-16  0:00                                                     ` Paul Johnson
1997-07-16  0:00                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-17  0:00                                                         ` Paul Johnson
1997-07-17  0:00                                                           ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-18  0:00                                                             ` Paul Johnson
1997-07-18  0:00                                                               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-18  0:00                                                               ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-21  0:00                                                                 ` Paul Johnson
1997-07-17  0:00                                                       ` Jon S Anthony
     [not found]                                                         ` <EDHqKo.K52@world.std.com>
1997-07-18  0:00                                                           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-19  0:00                                                             ` Robert A Duff
1997-07-20  0:00                                                               ` Tucker Taft
1997-07-10  0:00                                             ` Joe Gwinn
1997-07-11  0:00                                               ` Robert S. White
1997-07-15  0:00                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-15  0:00                                                   ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-16  0:00                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-10  0:00                                             ` Mike Stark
1997-07-11  0:00                                               ` Donovan Baarda
1997-07-13  0:00                                                 ` Steve Furlong
1997-07-16  0:00                                                   ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-17  0:00                                                     ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-17  0:00                                                     ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-18  0:00                                                     ` John Nagle
1997-07-18  0:00                                                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-18  0:00                                                     ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-18  0:00                                                       ` Nick Leaton
1997-07-18  0:00                                                         ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-11  0:00                                             ` Kazimir Majorinc
1997-07-12  0:00                                               ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-11  0:00                                             ` Don Harrison
1997-07-11  0:00                                               ` James Graves
1997-07-14  0:00                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-12  0:00                                               ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-15  0:00                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-15  0:00                                                   ` Wes Groleau
1997-07-15  0:00                                                     ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-16  0:00                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-16  0:00                                                       ` Ken Garlington [this message]
1997-07-16  0:00                                                         ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-17  0:00                                                           ` Paul Johnson
1997-07-17  0:00                                                             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-17  0:00                                                             ` Stuart Palin
1997-07-18  0:00                                                               ` Ian Rae
1997-07-18  0:00                                                               ` Paul Johnson
1997-07-18  0:00                                                             ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-18  0:00                                                           ` Don Harrison
1997-07-20  0:00                                                           ` Don Harrison
1997-07-18  0:00                                                     ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-07-21  0:00                                                       ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-07-15  0:00                                                   ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-16  0:00                                                     ` Jean-Marc Jezequel
1997-07-16  0:00                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-17  0:00                                                         ` The stupidity of all the Ariane 5 analysts Thaddeus L. Olczyk
     [not found]                                                           ` <33CEAF05.6389@flash.net>
1997-07-20  0:00                                                             ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-07-21  0:00                                                               ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-31  0:00                                                                 ` Al Christians
1997-08-01  0:00                                                                   ` "Paul E. Bennett"
1997-08-01  0:00                                                                     ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-21  0:00                                                               ` Robert S. White
1997-07-21  0:00                                                                 ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-21  0:00                                                                   ` The presuppositions " Samuel Mize
1997-07-21  0:00                                                                     ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-22  0:00                                                                     ` Luther Hampton
1997-07-23  0:00                                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-23  0:00                                                                       ` Samuel Mize
1997-07-21  0:00                                                                 ` The stupidity " Ken Garlington
1997-07-23  0:00                                                                   ` Robert S. White
1997-07-23  0:00                                                                     ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-25  0:00                                                                       ` Robert S. White
1997-07-23  0:00                                                                     ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-24  0:00                                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-29  0:00                                                                       ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
1997-07-31  0:00                                                                         ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-01  0:00                                                                           ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
1997-08-04  0:00                                                                           ` Larry Kilgallen
1997-07-31  0:00                                                                         ` Warts was " Richard Irvine
1997-07-31  0:00                                                                           ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-05  0:00                                                                           ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
     [not found]                                                                             ` <5scqlr$ju@news.sei.cmu.edu>
1997-08-07  0:00                                                                               ` Brian Rogoff
1997-08-08  0:00                                                                                 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-08  0:00                                                                                   ` Brian Rogoff
1997-08-10  0:00                                                                                 ` Matthew Heaney
1997-08-10  0:00                                                                                   ` Brian Rogoff
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                     ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
     [not found]                                                                               ` <Pine.SGI.3.95.970807191944.13419A-100000@shellx <JSA.97Aug8161709@alexandria.organon.com>
1997-08-08  0:00                                                                                 ` Robert A Duff
1997-08-11  0:00                                                                                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-08  0:00                                                                         ` Don Harrison
1997-08-11  0:00                                                                           ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
1997-07-25  0:00                                                                     ` Ariane 5,Eiffel, Ada Alan Brain
1997-07-22  0:00                                                                 ` The stupidity of all the Ariane 5 analysts W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-07-21  0:00                                                               ` Ian Begg
1997-07-21  0:00                                                                 ` Usefullness of design-by-contract (was Re: The stupidity of all the Ariane 5 analysts.) Jim Cochrane
1997-07-22  0:00                                                                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-22  0:00                                                                   ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-23  0:00                                                               ` The stupidity of all the Ariane 5 analysts Joerg Rodemann
1997-07-17  0:00                                                         ` Safety-critical development in Ada and Eiffel "Paul E. Bennett"
1997-07-17  0:00                                                           ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-18  0:00                                                         ` Safety-critical development in Ada and Eiffel - Ariane crash Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-18  0:00                                                           ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-17  0:00                                                     ` Safety-critical development in Ada and Eiffel Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-19  0:00                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-21  0:00                                                         ` Ada vs Eiffel (was: Safety-critical development in ...) W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-07-22  0:00                                                           ` Matt Kennel (Remove 'NOSPAM' to reply)
1997-07-21  0:00                                                       ` Safety-critical development in Ada and Eiffel Robert S. White
1997-07-20  0:00                                                         ` nabbasi
1997-07-21  0:00                                                           ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-07-18  0:00                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-18  0:00                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-22  0:00                                                         ` Don Harrison
1997-07-21  0:00                                                           ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-23  0:00                                                             ` Don Harrison
1997-07-23  0:00                                                               ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-07-24  0:00                                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-24  0:00                                                                   ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-26  0:00                                                                     ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-31  0:00                                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-28  0:00                                                                     ` Nick Leaton
1997-07-28  0:00                                                                       ` Steve Jones - JON
1997-07-31  0:00                                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-29  0:00                                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-31  0:00                                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-07  0:00                                                                         ` Don Harrison
1997-08-07  0:00                                                                           ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-09  0:00                                                                             ` Jim Cochrane
1997-08-11  0:00                                                                               ` Paul Johnson
1997-08-11  0:00                                                                                 ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-12  0:00                                                                                   ` Mark A Biggar
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                     ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                       ` Nick Leaton
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                       ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                         ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-20  0:00                                                                                           ` Nick Leaton
1997-08-21  0:00                                                                                             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-22  0:00                                                                                               ` Nick Leaton
1997-08-21  0:00                                                                                             ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-08-20  0:00                                                                                           ` Lee Webber
1997-08-21  0:00                                                                                             ` Don Harrison
1997-08-23  0:00                                                                                               ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-20  0:00                                                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-26  0:00                                                                                       ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                                   ` Paul Johnson
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                                     ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-15  0:00                                                                                       ` Paul Johnson
1997-08-15  0:00                                                                                         ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-18  0:00                                                                                           ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                             ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-20  0:00                                                                                               ` Nick Leaton
1997-08-20  0:00                                                                                                 ` Nasser
1997-08-21  0:00                                                                                                 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-22  0:00                                                                                                   ` Nick Leaton
1997-08-23  0:00                                                                                                     ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-21  0:00                                                                                               ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-08-23  0:00                                                                                                 ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-12  0:00                                                                             ` Don Harrison
1997-08-12  0:00                                                                               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                                 ` Ted Velkoff
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                                   ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                                     ` Ted Velkoff
1997-08-14  0:00                                                                                       ` Matt Austern
1997-08-14  0:00                                                                                         ` Ted Velkoff
1997-08-18  0:00                                                                                           ` Matt Austern
1997-08-20  0:00                                                                                             ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-08-21  0:00                                                                                               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-22  0:00                                                                                                 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-08-15  0:00                                                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-16  0:00                                                                                         ` Ted Velkoff
1997-08-16  0:00                                                                                           ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-16  0:00                                                                                             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-16  0:00                                                                                               ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-18  0:00                                                                                               ` Ted Velkoff
1997-08-18  0:00                                                                                             ` Ted Velkoff
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                               ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-14  0:00                                                                                     ` Nick Leaton
1997-08-16  0:00                                                                                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-18  0:00                                                                                       ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                         ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-21  0:00                                                                                           ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-08-23  0:00                                                                                             ` Ken Garlington
     [not found]                                                                                               ` <JSA.97Aug25181856@alexandria.organon.com>
     [not found]                                                                                                 ` <34023A1F.41C67EA6@eiffel.com>
1997-08-25  0:00                                                                                                   ` Design by Contract Bertrand Meyer
1997-08-25  0:00                                                                                                   ` Bertrand Meyer
     [not found]                                                                                                     ` <JSA.97Aug26151833@alexandria.organon.com>
1997-08-27  0:00                                                                                                       ` Patrick Doyle
1997-08-25  0:00                                                                                                   ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-08-25  0:00                                                                                                     ` Steve Stringfellow
1997-08-26  0:00                                                                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-08-25  0:00                                                                                                   ` Bertrand Meyer
     [not found]                                                                                                     ` <3402d123.0@news.uni-ulm.de>
1997-08-26  0:00                                                                                                       ` Nick Leaton
     [not found]                                                                                                         ` <3402e51d.0@news.uni-ulm.de>
     [not found]                                                                                                           ` <3402E8C9.3384D976@calfp.co.uk>
     [not found]                                                                                                             ` <dewar.872631036@merv>
     [not found]                                                                                                               ` <3403F668.F6B57D97@calfp.co.uk>
     [not found]                                                                                                                 ` <34041331.0@news.uni-ulm.de>
     [not found]                                                                                                                   ` <3404696D.4487EB71@eiffel.com>
1997-08-27  0:00                                                                                                                     ` Interface/Implementation (was Re: Design by Contract) Bertrand Meyer
     [not found]                                                                                                                       ` <34048FDC.13728473@eiffel.com>
1997-08-27  0:00                                                                                                                         ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-08-28  0:00                                                                                                                           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-29  0:00                                                                                                                             ` Robert Dewar
     [not found]                                                                                                                             ` <EForsv.Fqo@ecf.toronto.edu>
     [not found]                                                                                                                               ` <JSA.97Aug29191413@alexandria.organon.com>
     [not found]                                                                                                                                 ` <EFqDAG.2zn@ecf.toronto.edu>
1997-08-30  0:00                                                                                                                                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-02  0:00                                                                                                                                   ` Don Harrison
1997-09-02  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-03  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` Don Harrison
     [not found]                                                                                                                                     ` <EFwuzD.BxE@ecf.toronto.edu>
1997-09-04  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` Don Harrison
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                                         ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` Don Harrison
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Samuel Mize
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Don Harrison
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Joerg Rodemann
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                                   ` Joerg Rodemann
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                                                                                   ` Matt Austern
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                                     ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-13  0:00                                                                                                                                                     ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Robert S. White
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-13  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-13  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-16  0:00                                                                                                                                                   ` Brian Rogoff
1997-09-04  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` John G. Volan
1997-09-04  0:00                                                                                                                                         ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-06  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-08  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Paul Johnson
1997-09-06  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-08  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Robert S. White
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Paul Johnson
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Paul Johnson
1997-09-14  0:00                                                                                                                                                   ` Ken Garlington
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Matthew Heaney
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` Matt Kennel (Remove 'NOSPAM' to reply)
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` John Viega
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Matt Kennel (Remove 'NOSPAM' to reply)
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                                         ` Franck Arnaud
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                                         ` Patrick Doyle
1997-08-28  0:00                                                                                                                           ` Patrick Doyle
1997-08-28  0:00                                                                                                                             ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-08-28  0:00                                                                                                                       ` Tucker Taft
1997-08-28  0:00                                                                                                                         ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-08-28  0:00                                                                                                                           ` Jon S Anthony
     [not found]                                                                                                                             ` <EFnK8D.Lsv@ecf.toronto.edu>
1997-08-29  0:00                                                                                                                               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-30  0:00                                                                                                                                 ` Patrick Doyle
1997-08-30  0:00                                                                                                                                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-01  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` Patrick Doyle
1997-08-29  0:00                                                                                                                             ` Suzanne Zampella
1997-08-29  0:00                                                                                                                               ` Jon S Anthony
     [not found]                                                                                                                             ` <340E9BA2.32B3@rbgg252.rbg1.siemens.de>
1997-09-07  0:00                                                                                                                               ` Robert Dewar
     [not found]                                                                                                                         ` <3406A707.787D@dmu.ac.uk>
1997-08-29  0:00                                                                                                                           ` Joerg Rodemann
1997-08-29  0:00                                                                                                                             ` Ralph Paul
1997-08-29  0:00                                                                                                                           ` a fairy tale (was: Re: Interface/Implementation ) Fred Long
1997-09-01  0:00                                                                                                                           ` Interface/Implementation (was Re: Design by Contract) Don Harrison
1997-09-01  0:00                                                                                                                           ` In defence of plain ascii files ( was " Chris RL Morgan
1997-08-27  0:00                                                                                                               ` Design by Contract Ted Velkoff
1997-08-27  0:00                                                                                                               ` Matt Kennel (Remove 'NOSPAM' to reply)
     [not found]                                                                                                               ` <34050F3C.5A3A@invest.amp.com.au>
1997-08-28  0:00                                                                                                                 ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-29  0:00                                                                                                                   ` Paul Johnson
1997-08-31  0:00                                                                                                                     ` Matt Kennel (Remove 'NOSPAM' to reply)
1997-09-01  0:00                                                                                                                       ` John F. Bell III
1997-09-02  0:00                                                                                                                         ` Ken Garlington
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                           ` Robert Dewar
     [not found]                                                                                                                     ` <dewar.872887402@merv>
1997-09-02  0:00                                                                                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-09-03  0:00                                                                                                                         ` Thomas Beale
     [not found]                                                                                                                           ` <EFxx8q.2sw@ecf.toronto.edu>
1997-09-04  0:00                                                                                                                             ` Thomas Beale
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                         ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                           ` Ken Garlington
     [not found]                                                                                                         ` <340306E1.5FB64D70@XYZZYcalfp.com>
1997-08-28  0:00                                                                                                           ` Mark Bennison
1997-08-28  0:00                                                                                                             ` Separation of IF and Imp: process issue? Jeff Kotula
     [not found]                                                                                                               ` <x7vd8myyrzx.fsf@pogner.demon.co.uk>
1997-08-30  0:00                                                                                                                 ` Patrick Doyle
1997-08-31  0:00                                                                                                                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-01  0:00                                                                                                                     ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-01  0:00                                                                                                                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-02  0:00                                                                                                                         ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-03  0:00                                                                                                                           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                           ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                             ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-08  0:00                                                                                                                             ` Erik Magnuson
1997-09-02  0:00                                                                                                                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-03  0:00                                                                                                                         ` Patrick Doyle
     [not found]                                                                                                                   ` <x7vzppy250u.fsf@pogner.demon.co.uk>
1997-09-01  0:00                                                                                                                     ` Patrick Doyle
     [not found]                                                                                                                       ` <mheaney-ya023680000209972131260001@news.ni.net>
1997-09-03  0:00                                                                                                                         ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-04  0:00                                                                                                                           ` Matthew Heaney
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                             ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-08  0:00                                                                                                                               ` John G. Volan
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                 ` Nick Leaton
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                             ` Darren New
1997-09-06  0:00                                                                                                                               ` Matthew Heaney
1997-09-07  0:00                                                                                                                                 ` Darren New
1997-09-08  0:00                                                                                                                                   ` Darren New
1997-09-08  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` Matthew Heaney
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` John G. Volan
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` Robert S. White
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` Darren New
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                         ` Nick Leaton
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Samuel T. Harris
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                         ` Mark A Biggar
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Peter Hermann
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` Darren New
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Joerg Rodemann
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Darren New
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Joerg Rodemann
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                                   ` Darren New
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                         ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Robert A Duff
1997-09-13  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` Matt Kennel (Remove 'NOSPAM' to reply)
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Brian Rogoff
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                         ` news_check.py
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                                                                         ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-16  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` Owen Fellows
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` Fergus Henderson
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` Paul Johnson
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-08  0:00                                                                                                                                   ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                   ` Joerg Rodemann
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` Precondition Checking For Ada 0X (Was: Separation of IF and Imp: process issue?) Matthew Heaney
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                         ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-15  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-16  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-16  0:00                                                                                                                                         ` Don Harrison
1997-09-16  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` Joerg Rodemann
1997-09-16  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Roger Browne
1997-09-16  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Robert A Duff
1997-09-17  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-09-17  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Franck Arnaud
1997-09-18  0:00                                                                                                                                                   ` Don Harrison
1997-09-18  0:00                                                                                                                                                     ` Robert A Duff
1997-09-18  0:00                                                                                                                                                       ` Juergen Schlegelmilch
1997-09-18  0:00                                                                                                                                                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-20  0:00                                                                                                                                                       ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-09-17  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Lee Webber
1997-09-16  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Owen Fellows
1997-09-16  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-09-17  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Don Harrison
1997-09-17  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Paul Johnson
1997-09-20  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` Matthew Heaney
1997-09-25  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Don Harrison
1997-09-25  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Matthew Heaney
1997-09-26  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-09-29  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` John G. Volan
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` Separation of IF and Imp: process issue? Joerg Rodemann
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` Nick Leaton
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-18  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                   ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` Walter Mallory
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` Darren New
     [not found]                                                                                                                               ` <dewar.873826268@merv>
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                 ` Samuel Mize
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                   ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` Scott Ingram
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                         ` Scott Ingram
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                                                                   ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-06  0:00                                                                                                                             ` Matt Kennel (Remove 'NOSPAM' to reply)
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                             ` Samuel Mize
1997-09-06  0:00                                                                                                                               ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-06  0:00                                                                                                                             ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-06  0:00                                                                                                                               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-07  0:00                                                                                                                                 ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-08  0:00                                                                                                                                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` Matthew Heaney
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` Samuel Mize
1997-09-06  0:00                                                                                                                             ` Matt Kennel (Remove 'NOSPAM' to reply)
1997-09-06  0:00                                                                                                                               ` Jon S Anthony
     [not found]                                                                                                               ` <5u4941$9m1@gcsin3.geccs.gecm.com>
1997-09-15  0:00                                                                                                                 ` Michael Gacsaly
     [not found]                                                                                                     ` <34026DE7.7D07@pseserv3.fw.hac.com>
     [not found]                                                                                                       ` <3402C404.56812AFB@XYZZYcalfp.com>
1997-08-27  0:00                                                                                                         ` A DBC experience (was Re: Design by Contract) Simon Wright
     [not found]                                                                                                         ` <5tvfdt$79g@inet-server.sit.fi>
     [not found]                                                                                                           ` <34050D8B.569F@deakin.edu.au>
1997-08-28  0:00                                                                                                             ` Richie Bielak
1997-08-29  0:00                                                                                                               ` Peter Horan
     [not found]                                                                                                     ` <bengtk-2708972209500001@sl35.modempool.kth.se>
1997-08-28  0:00                                                                                                       ` Design by Contract Nick Leaton
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                                 ` Safety-critical development in Ada and Eiffel Don Harrison
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                                   ` Samuel Mize
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                                     ` Robert A Duff
1997-08-14  0:00                                                                                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-15  0:00                                                                                       ` Don Harrison
1997-08-16  0:00                                                                                         ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-15  0:00                                                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-08-16  0:00                                                                                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-12  0:00                                                                               ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-23  0:00                                                                               ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-08-23  0:00                                                                                 ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-23  0:00                                                               ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-25  0:00                                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-16  0:00                                                   ` Warwick Pulley
1997-07-16  0:00                                                     ` Nick Leaton
1997-07-16  0:00                                                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-20  0:00                                                         ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-24  0:00                                                           ` Paul M Gover
1997-07-26  0:00                                                             ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-28  0:00                                                               ` Robert S. White
1997-08-09  0:00                                                                 ` Marinos J. Yannikos
1997-08-10  0:00                                                                   ` Robert S. White
1997-08-11  0:00                                                                   ` Peter Hamer
1997-08-11  0:00                                                                     ` "Paul E. Bennett"
1997-07-29  0:00                                                               ` Don Harrison
1997-07-24  0:00                                                           ` Joe Buck
1997-07-21  0:00                                                         ` Don Harrison
1997-07-17  0:00                                                       ` Warwick Pulley
1997-07-17  0:00                                                         ` Warwick Pulley
1997-07-17  0:00                                                         ` Nick Leaton
1997-07-17  0:00                                                           ` Richie Bielak
1997-07-17  0:00                                                             ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-23  0:00                                                               ` Don Harrison
1997-07-23  0:00                                                                 ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-25  0:00                                                                   ` Don Harrison
1997-07-17  0:00                                                             ` Samuel Tardieu
1997-07-17  0:00                                                               ` Richie Bielak
1997-07-23  0:00                                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-23  0:00                                                                   ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-25  0:00                                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-23  0:00                                                                   ` Karel Th�nissen
1997-07-24  0:00                                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-24  0:00                                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-29  0:00                                                                         ` Don Harrison
1997-07-29  0:00                                                                           ` Ron Kohl
1997-07-29  0:00                                                                             ` Don Harrison
1997-07-30  0:00                                                                               ` Don Harrison
1997-07-31  0:00                                                                           ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-07  0:00                                                                             ` Don Harrison
1997-08-07  0:00                                                                               ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                                   ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-14  0:00                                                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-08-15  0:00                                                                                       ` Don Harrison
1997-08-15  0:00                                                                                         ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-16  0:00                                                                                           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                           ` Don Harrison
1997-08-20  0:00                                                                                             ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-15  0:00                                                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                         ` Don Harrison
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                           ` Lee Webber
1997-08-20  0:00                                                                                           ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-21  0:00                                                                                             ` Don Harrison
1997-08-15  0:00                                                                                       ` Lee Webber
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                         ` Don Harrison
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                           ` Lee Webber
1997-07-24  0:00                                                                       ` Don Harrison
1997-07-23  0:00                                                                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-24  0:00                                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-24  0:00                                                                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-17  0:00                                                             ` Karel Th�nissen
1997-07-23  0:00                                                             ` Don Harrison
1997-07-23  0:00                                                               ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-25  0:00                                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-17  0:00                                                           ` Ken Garlington
     [not found]                                                           ` <JSA.97Jul17174044@alexandria.organon.com>
1997-07-18  0:00                                                             ` Nick Leaton
1997-07-18  0:00                                                             ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-17  0:00                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-17  0:00                                                       ` Karel Th�nissen
1997-07-21  0:00                                                         ` Don Harrison
1997-07-17  0:00                                                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-22  0:00                                                         ` Don Harrison
1997-07-17  0:00                                                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-18  0:00                                                         ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-19  0:00                                                           ` Robert A Duff
1997-07-20  0:00                                                             ` Use use type? (Was Re: Safety-critical development in Ada and Eiffel) Brian Rogoff
1997-07-21  0:00                                                               ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-21  0:00                                                               ` Robert A Duff
1997-07-21  0:00                                                                 ` Brian Rogoff
1997-07-24  0:00                                                                 ` Morgan Palaeo Associates
1997-07-24  0:00                                                                   ` Jon S Anthony
     [not found]                                                                     ` <199707251337.PAA20933@basement.replay.com>
1997-07-26  0:00                                                                       ` Karel Th�nissen
1997-08-01  0:00                                                                     ` J-P. Rosen
1997-08-01  0:00                                                                       ` Robert A Duff
1997-08-02  0:00                                                                         ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-21  0:00                                                               ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-21  0:00                                                                 ` Brian Rogoff
1997-07-22  0:00                                                                   ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-21  0:00                                                             ` Safety-critical development in Ada and Eiffel W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-07-21  0:00                                                         ` Don Harrison
1997-07-21  0:00                                                           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-21  0:00                                                             ` Brian Rogoff
1997-07-16  0:00                                               ` Alan Brain
1997-07-18  0:00                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-22  0:00                                                   ` Alan Brain
1997-07-22  0:00                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-23  0:00                                                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-24  0:00                                                         ` Don Harrison
1997-07-25  0:00                                                         ` Alan Brain
1997-07-25  0:00                                                           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-11  0:00                                             ` Don Harrison
     [not found]                                     ` <slrn5rq1gc.che.abo@minkirri. <slrn5s1132.hf1.abo@minkirri.apana.org.au>
1997-07-08  0:00                                       ` Is ADA as good for graphics programming as C? (WAS: Re: Avoiding the second historic mistake) Richard Kenner
1997-07-08  0:00                                 ` Dale Pontius
     [not found]                             ` <33B16CBB.417A@gdesys <slrn5rn570.j6j.abo@minkirri.apana.org.au>
1997-07-04  0:00                               ` Samuel Mize
     [not found]                             ` <33B16CBB <slrn5rq1gc.che.abo@minkirri.apana.org.au>
1997-07-05  0:00                               ` Larry Kilgallen
1997-07-17  0:00 Safety-critical development in Ada and Eiffel Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
1997-07-17  0:00 ` Samuel Mize
1997-07-17  0:00   ` Ken Garlington
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
1997-07-18  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
1997-07-22  0:00 ` Karel Th�nissen
1997-07-18  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
1997-07-18  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
1997-07-18  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
1997-07-21  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
1997-07-21  0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-21  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
1997-07-21  0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-24  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
1997-08-24  0:00 Robert Dewar
replies disabled

This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox