Re: Eiffel anyone? - Who uses it?

[Ian Nelson <"Ian Nelson">]

ivory@tower.com wrote:
> 
> My friend's son is looking at colleges, and was startled to see
> that RIT appears to have a heavy focus on the language Eiffel for
> the first 2-3 years.  He's using this as a black mark against the
> school.  The thinking is that he'd rather be learning a 'real'
> language that has real-life value on the job market.
> 
> He's asked me for my opinion, and I'd have to say that I somewhat
> agree.  I've never met an Eiffel programer, and don't see a lot of
> ads for them in the classifieds.  Note: I'm not debating whether or
> not Eiffel is a good language; that's not the concern.  The concern
> is whether or not the job market will see this as having been time
> well spent.
> 
> So, what's the (reality based) counter argument?
> 
> [obviously, I seldom (ever) read each of the newsgroups I posted this
> to, so please e-mail responses as well as re-post.  thanks]
> 
> John

The reality based counter argument is that any programmer that claims to
be a professional and is worth hiring will use what you tell him to and
pick it up fairly quickly.  Further, I have a fair amount of experience
in Standard-ML, Prolog,  and Lisp (SML programmers are in even less
demand than Eiffel programmers) from CMU, and it has not hindered my
ability for find work one bit. 

Generally, after you learn several different programming paradigms and
their techniques, switching languages is like switching gears in a car
(almost.)  It never takes that long to dive into a new langauge and if
you have a job that mandates it, then it is even easier because you have
real motivation.  

The idea is to learn that languages are a small piece of the puzzle that
can cause big problems if you have the wrong attitude.  There is no
'best' language that can solve all of your problems but there most
certainly are 'worst' languages that can make projects far tougher than
they need to be.  While C++ and Java look good on a resume, they are
awful at some tasks.  Having a wide range of experience with different
tools makes you a better programmer, even if you aren't on the bleeding
edge of the latest trend.

It's also not really the job of the college (or at least most probably
don't do what is considered a good job at it) to create a resume for the
student.  The student is there to learn principles and how to apply
them,  if the market is demanding java programmers over Eiffel then he
should be motivated enough to learn it regardless of whether or not it
is taught to him at college.  O'Reilly books aren't that expensive.  

If it is real-world-job-finding-resume-fodder that he is interested in,
370asm and COBOL seem to be the hot job winners right now and I don't
think that he'd have learned those at any college anywhere over the last
few years.