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From: Ken Garlington <keg0@flash.net>
Subject: Re: Safety-critical development in Ada and Eiffel
Date: 1997/07/12
Date: 1997-07-12T00:00:00+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <33C835A5.362A@flash.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: ED5AGp.5MJ@syd.csa.com.au


Don Harrison wrote:
> 
> If even this small overhead is unacceptable, you can force static binding
> where necessary by freezing routines.
> Although you forgo the flexibility of
> polymorphism, you can still take advantage of inheritance by virtue of Eiffel
> synonyms - these allow you to declare a routine under different names.

But I can do this in Ada, as well, so I don't see the benefit.

 :Does this "pre-allocated memory pool" mean that you will know exactly
> :what address
> :each object's data will reside at, or merely that you dynamically
> :allocate memory
> :at initialization and do not dynamically allocate after initialization
> :is complete?
> 
> The latter. You don't actually need to know *where* objects are allocated,
> merely that there is sufficient memory to allocate them.

Actually, in my systems, I do need to know where they are allocated, so
that
I can examine them from the hideously crude display in the cockpit
during
troubleshooting.

> Maybe general assertions are more common than you imagine. However, I agree
> that range constraints are roughly covered by Ada subtypes. I use them liberally
> for just that purpose.

Maybe, but again, I would like to see how these complex assertions are
used. Again,
the code I've seen to date doesn't seem to use them that much.

> Correct me I misunderstand you.. Are you wondering whether contracting
> helps you to identify more bugs? I can offer my own experience which has
> firmly convinced me of this.

Contracting definitely identifies more bugs. However, my concern with
Eiffel
assertions (and Ada assertions, for that matter) is that, once raised,
it's
not always clear what to do about them. In a safety-critical system such
as
we build, you can't just generate a core dump, or ask the user what to
do next.
You have to generate a correct response to the assertion failure, and
you have
to do it very quickly. Static assertion checks, of course, can be
detected and
corrected during development, which is why I like Ada's strong static
type checking.

There is a school of thought that says to add in assertions, test the
system, and
then remove/suppress the exceptions. I have seen too many cases of code
that works
with the assertions active, and then breaks (due to timing differences,
or more
likely code generation errors) to have much confidence in this approach.

Another consequence of using assertions is that you have to develop and
test the
assertions. As a result, you need confidence that the benefits of the
assertions
outweigh the dilution of your test effort. One of the advantages of
Ada's simpler
approach (at least, it seems simpler to me) to simple
pre/post-conditions (range
checks in particular) is that the cost of adding them is somewhat
reduced. However,
in both languages, overuse of assertions may be just as bad as underuse.

(As you can tell, I'm somewhat of an assertions heretic. However, I will
say that
for non-real-time, non-safety-critical systems, they are outstanding. My
tool code
is lousy with them.)

> Consequently, when we (a team of 5) recently
> reached the end of a 5 month long development effort of incremental coding
> and integration testing, the parts of the system that used contracting work
> flawlessly apart from problems resulting from misinterpretation of requirements.

Most of the problems we see in formal testing are from misinterpretation
of
requirements - which is another issue I have with assertions as a magic
safety wand.
Of course, Bertand Meyer's Eiffel website insists that even
misinterpretation of
requirements (Ariane V) will be a problem no longer when Eiffel is used!
:)




  parent reply	other threads:[~1997-07-12  0:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 576+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <33957A33.1C31AB44@oma.com>
     [not found] ` <865898351snz@nezumi.demon.co.uk>
     [not found]   ` <339ED54C.215A5F85@oma.com>
     [not found]     ` <5noc8u$a8m$3@miranda.gmrc.gecm.com>
     [not found]       ` <33A032AC.2D8BA85C@oma.com>
     [not found]         ` <5nrn86$cvo$3@miranda.gmrc.gecm.com>
     [not found]           ` <33A1CBBB.B0602EC@oma.com>
     [not found]             ` <5o2uls$ku3$2@miranda.gmrc.gecm.com>
     [not found]               ` <33A6ADDA.2099EEB9@oma.com>
     [not found]                 ` <EBxM3y.8Eo@i2.COM>
     [not found]                   ` <33A7D2DE.545B@polaroid.com>
     [not found]                     ` <JSA.97Jun18155730@alexandria.organon.com>
1997-06-19  0:00                       ` Is ADA as good for graphics programming as C? (WAS: Re: Avoiding the second historic mistake) Mukesh Prasad
1997-06-19  0:00                         ` Is Ada " Jon S Anthony
1997-06-19  0:00                         ` Is ADA " Steve Jones - JON
1997-06-19  0:00                           ` Mukesh Prasad
1997-06-20  0:00                         ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-22  0:00                           ` Is ADA as good for graphics programming as C? (WAS: Jerry van Dijk
1997-06-21  0:00                         ` Is ADA as good for graphics programming as C? (WAS: Re: Avoiding the second historic mistake) Tim Harrison
1997-06-23  0:00                           ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-06-24  0:00                           ` John Goodsen
1997-06-25  0:00                             ` Michael Levasseur
1997-06-26  0:00                               ` Chris Brand
1997-07-02  0:00                               ` Matthew Heaney
1997-07-03  0:00                                 ` Donovan Baarda
1997-07-04  0:00                                   ` Matthew Heaney
1997-07-04  0:00                                     ` Donovan Baarda
1997-07-04  0:00                                       ` Brian Rogoff
1997-07-07  0:00                                         ` Donovan Baarda
1997-07-08  0:00                                           ` Brian Rogoff
1997-07-08  0:00                                           ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-09  0:00                                           ` Don Harrison
1997-07-05  0:00                                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-07  0:00                                         ` Donovan Baarda
1997-07-08  0:00                                           ` Canada Bass
1997-07-08  0:00                                             ` Martin Tom Brown
1997-07-08  0:00                                             ` Dale Pontius
1997-07-09  0:00                                           ` Matthew Heaney
1997-07-10  0:00                                             ` Nick Leaton
1997-07-10  0:00                                               ` Matthew Heaney
1997-07-11  0:00                                                 ` Nick Leaton
1997-07-14  0:00                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-15  0:00                                                   ` Matthew Heaney
1997-07-15  0:00                                                     ` Brian Rogoff
1997-07-16  0:00                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-17  0:00                                                       ` Matthew Heaney
1997-07-18  0:00                                                         ` Composition vs. Inheritance (was Re: Is ADA as good for graphics programming as C?) Robert I. Eachus
1997-07-19  0:00                                                         ` Is ADA as good for graphics programming as C? (WAS: Re: Avoiding the second historic mistake) Nasser
1997-07-20  0:00                                                           ` Brian Rogoff
1997-07-21  0:00                                                             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-21  0:00                                                             ` Andrew Dunstan
1997-07-21  0:00                                                           ` Jon S Anthony
     [not found]                                                         ` <01bc94e1$46912100$53aa20cc@default>
1997-07-20  0:00                                                           ` Is ADA as good for graphics programming as C? Matthew Heaney
1997-07-21  0:00                                                             ` Dennis Weldy
1997-07-21  0:00                                                           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-21  0:00                                                         ` Is ADA as good for graphics programming as C? (WAS: Re: Avoiding the second historic mistake) Robert C. Martin
1997-07-22  0:00                                                         ` Relative complexity - Eiffel and Ada Don Harrison
1997-07-15  0:00                                                   ` Is ADA as good for graphics programming as C? (WAS: Re: Avoiding the second historic mistake) Jon S Anthony
1997-07-15  0:00                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-15  0:00                                                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-15  0:00                                               ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-07-05  0:00                                       ` John Nagle
1997-07-09  0:00                                       ` Don Harrison
1997-07-09  0:00                                         ` Tucker Taft
1997-07-10  0:00                                           ` Safety-critical development in Ada and Eiffel Don Harrison
1997-07-10  0:00                                             ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-11  0:00                                               ` Ted Velkoff
1997-07-12  0:00                                                 ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-13  0:00                                                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-14  0:00                                                     ` Wes Groleau
1997-07-15  0:00                                                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-15  0:00                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-15  0:00                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-16  0:00                                                     ` Paul Johnson
1997-07-16  0:00                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-17  0:00                                                         ` Paul Johnson
1997-07-17  0:00                                                           ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-18  0:00                                                             ` Paul Johnson
1997-07-18  0:00                                                               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-18  0:00                                                               ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-21  0:00                                                                 ` Paul Johnson
1997-07-17  0:00                                                       ` Jon S Anthony
     [not found]                                                         ` <EDHqKo.K52@world.std.com>
1997-07-18  0:00                                                           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-19  0:00                                                             ` Robert A Duff
1997-07-20  0:00                                                               ` Tucker Taft
1997-07-10  0:00                                             ` Joe Gwinn
1997-07-11  0:00                                               ` Robert S. White
1997-07-15  0:00                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-15  0:00                                                   ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-16  0:00                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-10  0:00                                             ` Mike Stark
1997-07-11  0:00                                               ` Donovan Baarda
1997-07-13  0:00                                                 ` Steve Furlong
1997-07-16  0:00                                                   ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-17  0:00                                                     ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-17  0:00                                                     ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-18  0:00                                                     ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-18  0:00                                                       ` Nick Leaton
1997-07-18  0:00                                                         ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-18  0:00                                                     ` John Nagle
1997-07-18  0:00                                                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-11  0:00                                             ` Don Harrison
1997-07-11  0:00                                               ` James Graves
1997-07-14  0:00                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-12  0:00                                               ` Ken Garlington [this message]
1997-07-15  0:00                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-15  0:00                                                   ` Wes Groleau
1997-07-15  0:00                                                     ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-16  0:00                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-16  0:00                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-16  0:00                                                         ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-17  0:00                                                           ` Paul Johnson
1997-07-17  0:00                                                             ` Stuart Palin
1997-07-18  0:00                                                               ` Ian Rae
1997-07-18  0:00                                                               ` Paul Johnson
1997-07-17  0:00                                                             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-18  0:00                                                             ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-18  0:00                                                           ` Don Harrison
1997-07-20  0:00                                                           ` Don Harrison
1997-07-18  0:00                                                     ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-07-21  0:00                                                       ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-07-15  0:00                                                   ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-16  0:00                                                     ` Jean-Marc Jezequel
1997-07-16  0:00                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-17  0:00                                                         ` The stupidity of all the Ariane 5 analysts Thaddeus L. Olczyk
     [not found]                                                           ` <33CEAF05.6389@flash.net>
1997-07-20  0:00                                                             ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-07-21  0:00                                                               ` Robert S. White
1997-07-21  0:00                                                                 ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-21  0:00                                                                   ` The presuppositions " Samuel Mize
1997-07-21  0:00                                                                     ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-22  0:00                                                                     ` Luther Hampton
1997-07-23  0:00                                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-23  0:00                                                                       ` Samuel Mize
1997-07-21  0:00                                                                 ` The stupidity " Ken Garlington
1997-07-23  0:00                                                                   ` Robert S. White
1997-07-23  0:00                                                                     ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-24  0:00                                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-29  0:00                                                                       ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
1997-07-31  0:00                                                                         ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-01  0:00                                                                           ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
1997-08-04  0:00                                                                           ` Larry Kilgallen
1997-07-31  0:00                                                                         ` Warts was " Richard Irvine
1997-07-31  0:00                                                                           ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-05  0:00                                                                           ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
     [not found]                                                                             ` <5scqlr$ju@news.sei.cmu.edu>
1997-08-07  0:00                                                                               ` Brian Rogoff
1997-08-08  0:00                                                                                 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-08  0:00                                                                                   ` Brian Rogoff
1997-08-10  0:00                                                                                 ` Matthew Heaney
1997-08-10  0:00                                                                                   ` Brian Rogoff
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                     ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
     [not found]                                                                               ` <Pine.SGI.3.95.970807191944.13419A-100000@shellx <JSA.97Aug8161709@alexandria.organon.com>
1997-08-08  0:00                                                                                 ` Robert A Duff
1997-08-11  0:00                                                                                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-08  0:00                                                                         ` Don Harrison
1997-08-11  0:00                                                                           ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
1997-07-23  0:00                                                                     ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-25  0:00                                                                       ` Robert S. White
1997-07-25  0:00                                                                     ` Ariane 5,Eiffel, Ada Alan Brain
1997-07-22  0:00                                                                 ` The stupidity of all the Ariane 5 analysts W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-07-21  0:00                                                               ` Ian Begg
1997-07-21  0:00                                                                 ` Usefullness of design-by-contract (was Re: The stupidity of all the Ariane 5 analysts.) Jim Cochrane
1997-07-22  0:00                                                                   ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-22  0:00                                                                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-21  0:00                                                               ` The stupidity of all the Ariane 5 analysts Ken Garlington
1997-07-31  0:00                                                                 ` Al Christians
1997-08-01  0:00                                                                   ` "Paul E. Bennett"
1997-08-01  0:00                                                                     ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-23  0:00                                                               ` Joerg Rodemann
1997-07-17  0:00                                                         ` Safety-critical development in Ada and Eiffel "Paul E. Bennett"
1997-07-17  0:00                                                           ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-18  0:00                                                         ` Safety-critical development in Ada and Eiffel - Ariane crash Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-18  0:00                                                           ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-17  0:00                                                     ` Safety-critical development in Ada and Eiffel Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-19  0:00                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-21  0:00                                                         ` Ada vs Eiffel (was: Safety-critical development in ...) W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-07-22  0:00                                                           ` Matt Kennel (Remove 'NOSPAM' to reply)
1997-07-21  0:00                                                       ` Safety-critical development in Ada and Eiffel Robert S. White
1997-07-20  0:00                                                         ` nabbasi
1997-07-21  0:00                                                           ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-07-18  0:00                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-18  0:00                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-22  0:00                                                         ` Don Harrison
1997-07-21  0:00                                                           ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-23  0:00                                                             ` Don Harrison
1997-07-23  0:00                                                               ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-25  0:00                                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-23  0:00                                                               ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-07-24  0:00                                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-24  0:00                                                                   ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-26  0:00                                                                     ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-31  0:00                                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-28  0:00                                                                     ` Nick Leaton
1997-07-28  0:00                                                                       ` Steve Jones - JON
1997-07-31  0:00                                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-29  0:00                                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-31  0:00                                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-07  0:00                                                                         ` Don Harrison
1997-08-07  0:00                                                                           ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-09  0:00                                                                             ` Jim Cochrane
1997-08-11  0:00                                                                               ` Paul Johnson
1997-08-11  0:00                                                                                 ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-12  0:00                                                                                   ` Mark A Biggar
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                     ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                       ` Nick Leaton
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                       ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                         ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-20  0:00                                                                                           ` Lee Webber
1997-08-21  0:00                                                                                             ` Don Harrison
1997-08-23  0:00                                                                                               ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-20  0:00                                                                                           ` Nick Leaton
1997-08-21  0:00                                                                                             ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-08-21  0:00                                                                                             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-22  0:00                                                                                               ` Nick Leaton
1997-08-20  0:00                                                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-26  0:00                                                                                       ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                                   ` Paul Johnson
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                                     ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-15  0:00                                                                                       ` Paul Johnson
1997-08-15  0:00                                                                                         ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-18  0:00                                                                                           ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                             ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-20  0:00                                                                                               ` Nick Leaton
1997-08-20  0:00                                                                                                 ` Nasser
1997-08-21  0:00                                                                                                 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-22  0:00                                                                                                   ` Nick Leaton
1997-08-23  0:00                                                                                                     ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-21  0:00                                                                                               ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-08-23  0:00                                                                                                 ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-12  0:00                                                                             ` Don Harrison
1997-08-12  0:00                                                                               ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-12  0:00                                                                               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                                   ` Samuel Mize
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                                     ` Robert A Duff
1997-08-14  0:00                                                                                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-15  0:00                                                                                       ` Don Harrison
1997-08-16  0:00                                                                                         ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-15  0:00                                                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-08-16  0:00                                                                                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                                 ` Ted Velkoff
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                                   ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                                     ` Ted Velkoff
1997-08-14  0:00                                                                                       ` Matt Austern
1997-08-14  0:00                                                                                         ` Ted Velkoff
1997-08-18  0:00                                                                                           ` Matt Austern
1997-08-20  0:00                                                                                             ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-08-21  0:00                                                                                               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-22  0:00                                                                                                 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-08-15  0:00                                                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-16  0:00                                                                                         ` Ted Velkoff
1997-08-16  0:00                                                                                           ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-16  0:00                                                                                             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-16  0:00                                                                                               ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-18  0:00                                                                                               ` Ted Velkoff
1997-08-18  0:00                                                                                             ` Ted Velkoff
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                               ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-14  0:00                                                                                     ` Nick Leaton
1997-08-16  0:00                                                                                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-18  0:00                                                                                       ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                         ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-21  0:00                                                                                           ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-08-23  0:00                                                                                             ` Ken Garlington
     [not found]                                                                                               ` <JSA.97Aug25181856@alexandria.organon.com>
     [not found]                                                                                                 ` <34023A1F.41C67EA6@eiffel.com>
1997-08-25  0:00                                                                                                   ` Design by Contract Bertrand Meyer
     [not found]                                                                                                     ` <3402d123.0@news.uni-ulm.de>
1997-08-26  0:00                                                                                                       ` Nick Leaton
     [not found]                                                                                                         ` <3402e51d.0@news.uni-ulm.de>
     [not found]                                                                                                           ` <3402E8C9.3384D976@calfp.co.uk>
     [not found]                                                                                                             ` <dewar.872631036@merv>
     [not found]                                                                                                               ` <3403F668.F6B57D97@calfp.co.uk>
     [not found]                                                                                                                 ` <34041331.0@news.uni-ulm.de>
     [not found]                                                                                                                   ` <3404696D.4487EB71@eiffel.com>
1997-08-27  0:00                                                                                                                     ` Interface/Implementation (was Re: Design by Contract) Bertrand Meyer
     [not found]                                                                                                                       ` <34048FDC.13728473@eiffel.com>
1997-08-27  0:00                                                                                                                         ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-08-28  0:00                                                                                                                           ` Patrick Doyle
1997-08-28  0:00                                                                                                                             ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-08-28  0:00                                                                                                                           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-29  0:00                                                                                                                             ` Robert Dewar
     [not found]                                                                                                                             ` <EForsv.Fqo@ecf.toronto.edu>
     [not found]                                                                                                                               ` <JSA.97Aug29191413@alexandria.organon.com>
     [not found]                                                                                                                                 ` <EFqDAG.2zn@ecf.toronto.edu>
1997-08-30  0:00                                                                                                                                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-02  0:00                                                                                                                                   ` Don Harrison
1997-09-02  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-03  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` Don Harrison
     [not found]                                                                                                                                     ` <EFwuzD.BxE@ecf.toronto.edu>
1997-09-04  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` Don Harrison
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                                         ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` Don Harrison
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Samuel Mize
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Don Harrison
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Joerg Rodemann
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                                   ` Joerg Rodemann
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                                                                                   ` Matt Austern
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                                     ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-13  0:00                                                                                                                                                     ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Robert S. White
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-13  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-13  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-16  0:00                                                                                                                                                   ` Brian Rogoff
1997-09-04  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` John G. Volan
1997-09-04  0:00                                                                                                                                         ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-06  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-08  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Paul Johnson
1997-09-06  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-08  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Matthew Heaney
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Paul Johnson
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Paul Johnson
1997-09-14  0:00                                                                                                                                                   ` Ken Garlington
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Robert S. White
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` Matt Kennel (Remove 'NOSPAM' to reply)
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` John Viega
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Matt Kennel (Remove 'NOSPAM' to reply)
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                                         ` Franck Arnaud
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                                         ` Patrick Doyle
1997-08-28  0:00                                                                                                                       ` Tucker Taft
1997-08-28  0:00                                                                                                                         ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-08-28  0:00                                                                                                                           ` Jon S Anthony
     [not found]                                                                                                                             ` <EFnK8D.Lsv@ecf.toronto.edu>
1997-08-29  0:00                                                                                                                               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-30  0:00                                                                                                                                 ` Patrick Doyle
1997-08-30  0:00                                                                                                                                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-01  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` Patrick Doyle
1997-08-29  0:00                                                                                                                             ` Suzanne Zampella
1997-08-29  0:00                                                                                                                               ` Jon S Anthony
     [not found]                                                                                                                             ` <340E9BA2.32B3@rbgg252.rbg1.siemens.de>
1997-09-07  0:00                                                                                                                               ` Robert Dewar
     [not found]                                                                                                                         ` <3406A707.787D@dmu.ac.uk>
1997-08-29  0:00                                                                                                                           ` Joerg Rodemann
1997-08-29  0:00                                                                                                                             ` Ralph Paul
1997-08-29  0:00                                                                                                                           ` a fairy tale (was: Re: Interface/Implementation ) Fred Long
1997-09-01  0:00                                                                                                                           ` Interface/Implementation (was Re: Design by Contract) Don Harrison
1997-09-01  0:00                                                                                                                           ` In defence of plain ascii files ( was " Chris RL Morgan
1997-08-27  0:00                                                                                                               ` Design by Contract Ted Velkoff
1997-08-27  0:00                                                                                                               ` Matt Kennel (Remove 'NOSPAM' to reply)
     [not found]                                                                                                               ` <34050F3C.5A3A@invest.amp.com.au>
1997-08-28  0:00                                                                                                                 ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-29  0:00                                                                                                                   ` Paul Johnson
1997-08-31  0:00                                                                                                                     ` Matt Kennel (Remove 'NOSPAM' to reply)
1997-09-01  0:00                                                                                                                       ` John F. Bell III
1997-09-02  0:00                                                                                                                         ` Ken Garlington
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                           ` Robert Dewar
     [not found]                                                                                                                     ` <dewar.872887402@merv>
1997-09-02  0:00                                                                                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-09-03  0:00                                                                                                                         ` Thomas Beale
     [not found]                                                                                                                           ` <EFxx8q.2sw@ecf.toronto.edu>
1997-09-04  0:00                                                                                                                             ` Thomas Beale
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                         ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                           ` Ken Garlington
     [not found]                                                                                                         ` <340306E1.5FB64D70@XYZZYcalfp.com>
1997-08-28  0:00                                                                                                           ` Mark Bennison
1997-08-28  0:00                                                                                                             ` Separation of IF and Imp: process issue? Jeff Kotula
     [not found]                                                                                                               ` <x7vd8myyrzx.fsf@pogner.demon.co.uk>
1997-08-30  0:00                                                                                                                 ` Patrick Doyle
1997-08-31  0:00                                                                                                                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-01  0:00                                                                                                                     ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-01  0:00                                                                                                                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-02  0:00                                                                                                                         ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-03  0:00                                                                                                                           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                           ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                             ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-08  0:00                                                                                                                             ` Erik Magnuson
1997-09-02  0:00                                                                                                                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-03  0:00                                                                                                                         ` Patrick Doyle
     [not found]                                                                                                                   ` <x7vzppy250u.fsf@pogner.demon.co.uk>
1997-09-01  0:00                                                                                                                     ` Patrick Doyle
     [not found]                                                                                                                       ` <mheaney-ya023680000209972131260001@news.ni.net>
1997-09-03  0:00                                                                                                                         ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-04  0:00                                                                                                                           ` Matthew Heaney
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                             ` Darren New
1997-09-06  0:00                                                                                                                               ` Matthew Heaney
1997-09-07  0:00                                                                                                                                 ` Darren New
1997-09-08  0:00                                                                                                                                   ` Darren New
1997-09-08  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` Matthew Heaney
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` John G. Volan
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` Fergus Henderson
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` Paul Johnson
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` Robert S. White
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` Darren New
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                         ` Mark A Biggar
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Peter Hermann
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` Darren New
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Joerg Rodemann
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Darren New
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Joerg Rodemann
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                                   ` Darren New
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                         ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Robert A Duff
1997-09-13  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` Matt Kennel (Remove 'NOSPAM' to reply)
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Brian Rogoff
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                         ` Nick Leaton
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Samuel T. Harris
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                         ` news_check.py
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                                                                         ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-16  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` Owen Fellows
1997-09-08  0:00                                                                                                                                   ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                   ` Joerg Rodemann
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` Nick Leaton
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` Joerg Rodemann
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` Precondition Checking For Ada 0X (Was: Separation of IF and Imp: process issue?) Matthew Heaney
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                         ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-15  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-16  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-16  0:00                                                                                                                                         ` Don Harrison
1997-09-16  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` Joerg Rodemann
1997-09-16  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Roger Browne
1997-09-16  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Robert A Duff
1997-09-17  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Lee Webber
1997-09-17  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Franck Arnaud
1997-09-18  0:00                                                                                                                                                   ` Don Harrison
1997-09-18  0:00                                                                                                                                                     ` Robert A Duff
1997-09-18  0:00                                                                                                                                                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-18  0:00                                                                                                                                                       ` Juergen Schlegelmilch
1997-09-20  0:00                                                                                                                                                       ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-09-17  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-09-16  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Owen Fellows
1997-09-16  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-09-17  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Don Harrison
1997-09-17  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Paul Johnson
1997-09-20  0:00                                                                                                                                           ` Matthew Heaney
1997-09-25  0:00                                                                                                                                             ` Don Harrison
1997-09-25  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` Matthew Heaney
1997-09-26  0:00                                                                                                                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-09-29  0:00                                                                                                                                               ` John G. Volan
1997-09-18  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` Separation of IF and Imp: process issue? Robert Dewar
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                   ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` Walter Mallory
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` Darren New
     [not found]                                                                                                                               ` <dewar.873826268@merv>
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                 ` Samuel Mize
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                   ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` Scott Ingram
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-12  0:00                                                                                                                                         ` Scott Ingram
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                                                                   ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                             ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-08  0:00                                                                                                                               ` John G. Volan
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                 ` Nick Leaton
1997-09-06  0:00                                                                                                                             ` Matt Kennel (Remove 'NOSPAM' to reply)
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                                                                             ` Samuel Mize
1997-09-06  0:00                                                                                                                               ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-06  0:00                                                                                                                             ` Matt Kennel (Remove 'NOSPAM' to reply)
1997-09-06  0:00                                                                                                                               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-06  0:00                                                                                                                             ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-06  0:00                                                                                                                               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-07  0:00                                                                                                                                 ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-08  0:00                                                                                                                                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                     ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` Samuel Mize
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                                                                       ` Matthew Heaney
     [not found]                                                                                                               ` <5u4941$9m1@gcsin3.geccs.gecm.com>
1997-09-15  0:00                                                                                                                 ` Michael Gacsaly
     [not found]                                                                                                     ` <34026DE7.7D07@pseserv3.fw.hac.com>
     [not found]                                                                                                       ` <3402C404.56812AFB@XYZZYcalfp.com>
1997-08-27  0:00                                                                                                         ` A DBC experience (was Re: Design by Contract) Simon Wright
     [not found]                                                                                                         ` <5tvfdt$79g@inet-server.sit.fi>
     [not found]                                                                                                           ` <34050D8B.569F@deakin.edu.au>
1997-08-28  0:00                                                                                                             ` Richie Bielak
1997-08-29  0:00                                                                                                               ` Peter Horan
     [not found]                                                                                                     ` <bengtk-2708972209500001@sl35.modempool.kth.se>
1997-08-28  0:00                                                                                                       ` Design by Contract Nick Leaton
1997-08-25  0:00                                                                                                   ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-08-25  0:00                                                                                                     ` Steve Stringfellow
1997-08-26  0:00                                                                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-08-25  0:00                                                                                                   ` Bertrand Meyer
     [not found]                                                                                                     ` <JSA.97Aug26151833@alexandria.organon.com>
1997-08-27  0:00                                                                                                       ` Patrick Doyle
1997-08-25  0:00                                                                                                   ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                                   ` Safety-critical development in Ada and Eiffel Jon S Anthony
1997-08-23  0:00                                                                               ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-08-23  0:00                                                                                 ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-16  0:00                                                   ` Warwick Pulley
1997-07-16  0:00                                                     ` Nick Leaton
1997-07-16  0:00                                                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-20  0:00                                                         ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-24  0:00                                                           ` Paul M Gover
1997-07-26  0:00                                                             ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-28  0:00                                                               ` Robert S. White
1997-08-09  0:00                                                                 ` Marinos J. Yannikos
1997-08-10  0:00                                                                   ` Robert S. White
1997-08-11  0:00                                                                   ` Peter Hamer
1997-08-11  0:00                                                                     ` "Paul E. Bennett"
1997-07-29  0:00                                                               ` Don Harrison
1997-07-24  0:00                                                           ` Joe Buck
1997-07-21  0:00                                                         ` Don Harrison
1997-07-17  0:00                                                       ` Warwick Pulley
1997-07-17  0:00                                                         ` Nick Leaton
1997-07-17  0:00                                                           ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-17  0:00                                                           ` Richie Bielak
1997-07-17  0:00                                                             ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-23  0:00                                                               ` Don Harrison
1997-07-23  0:00                                                                 ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-25  0:00                                                                   ` Don Harrison
1997-07-17  0:00                                                             ` Samuel Tardieu
1997-07-17  0:00                                                               ` Richie Bielak
1997-07-23  0:00                                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-23  0:00                                                                   ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-25  0:00                                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-23  0:00                                                                   ` Karel Th�nissen
1997-07-24  0:00                                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-24  0:00                                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-29  0:00                                                                         ` Don Harrison
1997-07-29  0:00                                                                           ` Ron Kohl
1997-07-29  0:00                                                                             ` Don Harrison
1997-07-30  0:00                                                                               ` Don Harrison
1997-07-31  0:00                                                                           ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-07  0:00                                                                             ` Don Harrison
1997-08-07  0:00                                                                               ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                                   ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-14  0:00                                                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-08-15  0:00                                                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                         ` Don Harrison
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                           ` Lee Webber
1997-08-20  0:00                                                                                           ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-21  0:00                                                                                             ` Don Harrison
1997-08-15  0:00                                                                                       ` Don Harrison
1997-08-15  0:00                                                                                         ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-16  0:00                                                                                           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                           ` Don Harrison
1997-08-20  0:00                                                                                             ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-15  0:00                                                                                       ` Lee Webber
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                         ` Don Harrison
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                                           ` Lee Webber
1997-07-24  0:00                                                                       ` Don Harrison
1997-07-23  0:00                                                                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-24  0:00                                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-24  0:00                                                                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-17  0:00                                                             ` Karel Th�nissen
1997-07-23  0:00                                                             ` Don Harrison
1997-07-23  0:00                                                               ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-25  0:00                                                                 ` Don Harrison
     [not found]                                                           ` <JSA.97Jul17174044@alexandria.organon.com>
1997-07-18  0:00                                                             ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-18  0:00                                                             ` Nick Leaton
1997-07-17  0:00                                                         ` Warwick Pulley
1997-07-17  0:00                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-17  0:00                                                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-22  0:00                                                         ` Don Harrison
1997-07-17  0:00                                                       ` Karel Th�nissen
1997-07-21  0:00                                                         ` Don Harrison
1997-07-17  0:00                                                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-18  0:00                                                         ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-19  0:00                                                           ` Robert A Duff
1997-07-20  0:00                                                             ` Use use type? (Was Re: Safety-critical development in Ada and Eiffel) Brian Rogoff
1997-07-21  0:00                                                               ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-21  0:00                                                               ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-21  0:00                                                                 ` Brian Rogoff
1997-07-22  0:00                                                                   ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-21  0:00                                                               ` Robert A Duff
1997-07-21  0:00                                                                 ` Brian Rogoff
1997-07-24  0:00                                                                 ` Morgan Palaeo Associates
1997-07-24  0:00                                                                   ` Jon S Anthony
     [not found]                                                                     ` <199707251337.PAA20933@basement.replay.com>
1997-07-26  0:00                                                                       ` Karel Th�nissen
1997-08-01  0:00                                                                     ` J-P. Rosen
1997-08-01  0:00                                                                       ` Robert A Duff
1997-08-02  0:00                                                                         ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-21  0:00                                                             ` Safety-critical development in Ada and Eiffel W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-07-21  0:00                                                         ` Don Harrison
1997-07-21  0:00                                                           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-21  0:00                                                             ` Brian Rogoff
1997-07-16  0:00                                               ` Alan Brain
1997-07-18  0:00                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-22  0:00                                                   ` Alan Brain
1997-07-22  0:00                                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-23  0:00                                                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-24  0:00                                                         ` Don Harrison
1997-07-25  0:00                                                         ` Alan Brain
1997-07-25  0:00                                                           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-11  0:00                                             ` Kazimir Majorinc
1997-07-12  0:00                                               ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-11  0:00                                             ` Don Harrison
     [not found]                                     ` <slrn5rq1gc.che.abo@minkirri. <slrn5s1132.hf1.abo@minkirri.apana.org.au>
1997-07-08  0:00                                       ` Is ADA as good for graphics programming as C? (WAS: Re: Avoiding the second historic mistake) Richard Kenner
1997-07-08  0:00                                 ` Dale Pontius
     [not found]                             ` <33B16CBB.417A@gdesys <slrn5rn570.j6j.abo@minkirri.apana.org.au>
1997-07-04  0:00                               ` Samuel Mize
     [not found]                             ` <33B16CBB <slrn5rq1gc.che.abo@minkirri.apana.org.au>
1997-07-05  0:00                               ` Larry Kilgallen
1997-07-17  0:00 Safety-critical development in Ada and Eiffel Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
1997-07-17  0:00 ` Samuel Mize
1997-07-17  0:00   ` Ken Garlington
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
1997-07-18  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
1997-07-18  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
1997-07-18  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
1997-07-22  0:00 ` Karel Th�nissen
1997-07-18  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
1997-07-21  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
1997-07-21  0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-21  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
1997-07-21  0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-24  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
1997-08-24  0:00 Robert Dewar
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