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From: Scott Stanchfield <scotts@metaware.com>
Subject: Re: Software Engineering is not a hoax...
Date: 1997/05/27
Date: 1997-05-27T00:00:00+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <338B2118.41C67EA6@metaware.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 5mc1a2$icf$1@dbs1.sma.ch


Laurent Gasser wrote:

> In the domain of codification of thought, computer scientist have made progress.
> In my daily work, I sometimes encounter very old Fortran 77 code, not respecting
> the principles of structured programming.  Once, it took me one hour on a 100 LOC

[snip]

> 
> I am pretty sure that in 15 years from now, a programmer looking at code will
> immediatly complain if the module is not following the principles of OO or is
> not designed as an Abstract Data Type.

I'd say this is more akin to "using acceptable grammar" than applying
engineering techniques.

Think about "Ugh! Me Kronk" versus "Hello, my name is Scott."  Did I
engineer that sentence?  I applied grammatical rules, but I wouldn't say
that it was engineered.

The problem I have with the notion of Software "Engineering" is when
people say software development is just like building cars.
That's just a plain bad analogy.  Think about car production.  Cars do
one thing -- transport.  Sure, some can be more fun than others, some
may be better at towing, some may carry more people, but they are all
basically the same.  The parts used to make them are basically the same.

Car production is basically doing the same thing over and over and over
and over.  Things get a bit better and specialized sometimes, but it's
still building something to do the same task.

I've never written more than one program to do exactly the same task
(unless I'm rewriting it to improve it.)  Each time I sit down to code
something the goal is different.  This, in turn, implies the combination
of parts needed to construct it, and the order in which those parts are
put together is different. (These "parts" I refer to are language
constructs, known algorithms and simple reusable objects like
containers.  Nothing too big, or you're getting into doing the same task
again.) 

Sure, we can use common algorithms and objects such as containers and
math packages.  But the overall product is not something that has been
done before, and therefore, there is no proven, repeatable method to
"engineer" that work.

This leads to my belief that SW development is an art, rather than a
science, and is a highly creative field.  As in painting, for example,
we use common techniques and styles, and we use standard tools.  But
we're not painting the same picture over and over.  We need creative
thought to produce the painting we seek.  The same is true for
programming.

Yes, techniques are useful.  Yes, some pieces can be reused.  (In a
painting, I'd say this relates to the "paint" with which the piece is
composed -- the reusable parts are small, atomic chunks like algorithms
and simple containers.)  But unless you're writing the same program over
and over, and can have a "cookie cutter" or mold to produce the code,
you're not engineering it.   You're creating it.  And that's not a bad
thing.

-- Scott

-- 
Scott Stanchfield
(The opinions expressed herein are not necessarily those of MetaWare)




  parent reply	other threads:[~1997-05-27  0:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 185+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
1997-05-15  0:00 Any research putting c above ada? Jon S Anthony
1997-05-15  0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-15  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
     [not found]   ` <01bc6189$b074f500$LocalHost@xhv46.dial.pipex.com>
1997-05-16  0:00     ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-16  0:00       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-18  0:00         ` Nick Roberts
1997-05-19  0:00           ` NOT about "c above ada" W. Wesley Groleau (Wes)
1997-05-19  0:00         ` Any research putting c above ada? Michael Norrish
1997-05-20  0:00           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-20  0:00             ` Michael Norrish
1997-05-20  0:00               ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-20  0:00                 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-21  0:00                   ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-21  0:00                 ` Craig Franck
1997-05-22  0:00                 ` Software Engineering is not a hoax... (was Re: Any research putting c above ada?) Robert I. Eachus
1997-05-22  0:00                   ` Software Engineering and Dreamers Nick Roberts
1997-05-22  0:00                     ` Tom Moran
1997-05-25  0:00                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-05-26  0:00                         ` David Ray
1997-05-23  0:00                     ` Mark Allen Framness
1997-05-23  0:00                       ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-23  0:00                     ` Mark Allen Framness
1997-05-23  0:00                     ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-05-23  0:00                       ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-24  0:00                         ` jason hummel
1997-05-24  0:00                         ` Robert Dewar
1997-05-25  0:00                         ` Craig Franck
1997-05-26  0:00                           ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-26  0:00                             ` Craig Franck
1997-05-27  0:00                               ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-28  0:00                               ` Fritz W Feuerbacher
1997-05-29  0:00                                 ` Craig Franck
1997-05-29  0:00                                   ` Robert Dewar
1997-05-26  0:00                             ` Robert Dewar
1997-05-27  0:00                               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-27  0:00                                 ` Dann Corbit
1997-05-26  0:00                         ` Fritz W Feuerbacher
1997-05-26  0:00                           ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-26  0:00                             ` tstcroix
1997-05-27  0:00                               ` Robert Dewar
1997-05-27  0:00                                 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-28  0:00                                   ` Robert Dewar
1997-05-31  0:00                                   ` Nick Roberts
1997-06-02  0:00                                     ` Jon S Anthony
1997-06-09  0:00                                   ` Ralph Silverman
1997-05-27  0:00                             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-28  0:00                               ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-05-27  0:00                             ` system
1997-05-27  0:00                               ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-28  0:00                                 ` Rich Miller
1997-05-28  0:00                                   ` Bryce Bardin
1997-05-28  0:00                                     ` Lawrence Kirby
1997-05-29  0:00                                       ` Matthew S. Whiting
1997-05-29  0:00                                       ` Nick Leaton
1997-05-28  0:00                                     ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-28  0:00                             ` Fritz W Feuerbacher
1997-05-29  0:00                             ` Robert Dewar
1997-05-29  0:00                               ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-30  0:00                             ` Vibrating Bum-Faced Goats
1997-05-30  0:00                               ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-02  0:00                                 ` Nick Roberts
1997-06-07  0:00                                   ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-02  0:00                                 ` Mathew Hendry
1997-06-03  0:00                                   ` Matthew S. Whiting
1997-06-03  0:00                                     ` Spaceman Spiff
1997-06-03  0:00                                   ` John Winters
1997-06-02  0:00                                     ` Mathew Hendry
1997-06-03  0:00                                       ` Martin C. Carlisle
1997-06-08  0:00                                         ` Joe Charlier
1997-06-09  0:00                                         ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-17  0:00                                           ` Nick Roberts
1997-06-04  0:00                                       ` John Winters
1997-06-06  0:00                                       ` Volker Hetzer
1997-06-06  0:00                                         ` Mathew Hendry
1997-06-08  0:00                                           ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-09  0:00                                             ` Jonathan Guthrie
1997-06-09  0:00                                               ` Mathew Hendry
1997-06-11  0:00                                                 ` Crocodiles [was: Re: Software Engineering and Dreamers] Anonymous
1997-06-11  0:00                                                   ` Off topic: Crocodiles Mukesh Prasad
1997-06-11  0:00                                                     ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-11  0:00                                                       ` Mukesh Prasad
1997-06-12  0:00                                                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-06-11  0:00                                                   ` Crocodiles [was: Re: Software Engineering and Dreamers] Spam Hater
1997-06-12  0:00                                                     ` Anonymous
1997-06-11  0:00                                                 ` Software Engineering and Dreamers Jonathan Guthrie
1997-06-11  0:00                                                   ` Mathew Hendry
1997-06-17  0:00                                               ` Nick Roberts
1997-06-09  0:00                                             ` Craig Franck
1997-06-08  0:00                                               ` John G. Volan
1997-06-09  0:00                                                 ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-09  0:00                                                   ` John G. Volan
1997-06-10  0:00                                                     ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-09  0:00                                                   ` SE, Dreamers, and on and on and on W. Wesley Groleau (Wes)
1997-06-08  0:00                                               ` Software Engineering and Dreamers Jason Shankel
1997-06-09  0:00                                                 ` Robert Dewar
     [not found]                                         ` <19970606.49CA70..12B91@ae124.du.pipex.com>
1997-06-07  0:00                                           ` Lawrence Kirby
1997-06-09  0:00                                             ` W. Wesley Groleau (Wes)
1997-06-10  0:00                                               ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-10  0:00                                                 ` W. Wesley Groleau (Wes)
1997-06-07  0:00                                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-08  0:00                                         ` Mathew Hendry
1997-06-03  0:00                                     ` Ed Prochak - Woodland Consultants
1997-06-03  0:00                                   ` Craig Franck
1997-06-02  0:00                                 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-06-02  0:00                               ` Jon S Anthony
     [not found]                                 ` <01bc7042$609289e0$cb61e426@DCorbit.solutionsiq.com>
1997-06-03  0:00                                   ` Off topic response to an off topic message--> was:Re: " H. Blakely Williford
1997-06-04  0:00                                     ` Craig Franck
1997-06-03  0:00                                       ` Spaceman Spiff
1997-06-09  0:00                                         ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-06-09  0:00                                         ` Ceri Stagg
1997-06-12  0:00                                           ` Philip Brashear
1997-07-21  0:00                                             ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
1997-06-09  0:00                                         ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-10  0:00                                       ` Vibrating Bum-Faced Goats
1997-06-04  0:00                                   ` Vibrating Bum-Faced Goats
1997-06-04  0:00                                     ` �Stephen!
1997-06-05  0:00                                       ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-06-06  0:00                                         ` Volker Hetzer
     [not found]                                     ` <01bc7a5b$9ccdd900$21320f9b@mindlin>
     [not found]                                       ` <5o7ahj$oos$1@news12.gte.net>
1997-06-18  0:00                                         ` Spam Hater
1997-06-18  0:00                                           ` Spaceman Spiff
1997-06-19  0:00                                             ` Stephan Wilms
1997-06-20  0:00                                             ` Spam Hater
1997-06-19  0:00                                           ` Mukesh Prasad
1997-06-18  0:00                                         ` Philip Hindman
1997-06-19  0:00                                         ` Craig Franck
1997-06-18  0:00                                           ` Spaceman Spiff
1997-06-19  0:00                                             ` Steve Howard
1997-06-19  0:00                                               ` Anonymous
1997-06-20  0:00                                             ` Spam Hater
1997-06-21  0:00                                               ` Spaceman Spiff
1997-06-23  0:00                                               ` root
1997-06-22  0:00                                             ` Alicia Carla Longstreet
1997-06-19  0:00                                           ` Stephan Wilms
1997-06-24  0:00                                           ` David Thornley
1997-06-06  0:00                                 ` Fritz W Feuerbacher
1997-06-06  0:00                                   ` Joe Charlier
1997-06-04  0:00                             ` S. Norby
1997-05-30  0:00                         ` Vibrating Bum-Faced Goats
1997-05-24  0:00                     ` Bill Anderson
1997-05-23  0:00                   ` Software Engineering is not a hoax... (was Re: Any research putting c above ada?) Jeff Carter
1997-05-23  0:00                     ` William M.Gordon
1997-05-23  0:00                       ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-23  0:00                         ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-05-25  0:00                           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-23  0:00                         ` John Bode
1997-05-25  0:00                           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-25  0:00                           ` Craig Franck
1997-05-25  0:00                           ` Robert Dewar
1997-05-26  0:00                           ` Software Engineering is not a hoax Laurent Gasser
1997-05-26  0:00                             ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-27  0:00                             ` Scott Stanchfield [this message]
1997-05-27  0:00                               ` Dan Evens
1997-05-27  0:00                                 ` Scott Stanchfield
1997-05-27  0:00                               ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-27  0:00                                 ` Scott Stanchfield
1997-05-29  0:00                                 ` Dean Runzel
1997-05-29  0:00                                   ` Scott Stanchfield
1997-05-29  0:00                                   ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-30  0:00                                     ` Robert Dewar
1997-05-30  0:00                                       ` John G. Volan
1997-05-30  0:00                                   ` Lord Shaman
1997-05-28  0:00                             ` Alan Bowler
1997-05-29  0:00                               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-24  0:00                         ` Software Engineering is not a hoax... (was Re: Any research putting c above ada?) W. Wesley Groleau (Wes)
1997-05-24  0:00                         ` Fritz W Feuerbacher
1997-05-24  0:00                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-12  0:00                         ` Software Engineering is not a hoax Keith Shillington
1997-06-12  0:00                           ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-06-17  0:00                           ` brucemo
1997-06-17  0:00                             ` Richard Turner
1997-06-17  0:00                               ` Spam Hater
1997-06-17  0:00                                 ` Richard Turner
1997-06-12  0:00                   ` Ralph Silverman
     [not found]                   ` <33859489.7FB8@spam.inno <5nplh1$276@nntp.seflin.org>
1997-06-13  0:00                     ` Paul Mesken
1997-06-13  0:00                     ` Michael Tippach
1997-05-20  0:00               ` Any research putting c above ada? Jon S Anthony
1997-05-20  0:00             ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-20  0:00               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-20  0:00   ` Les Hazlewood
1997-05-20  0:00     ` Jason A Cunningham
1997-05-21  0:00       ` Stephan Wilms
1997-05-21  0:00         ` Jason A Cunningham
1997-05-20  0:00     ` Newsthread integrity Nick Roberts
1997-05-16  0:00 ` Any research putting c above ada? T Wheeley
1997-05-16  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
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