From: Jeff Carter <carter@spam.innocon.com>
Subject: Re: Software Engineering is not a hoax... (was Re: Any research putting c above ada?)
Date: 1997/05/23
Date: 1997-05-23T00:00:00+00:00 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <33859489.7FB8@spam.innocon.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: EACHUS.97May22113850@spectre.mitre.org
Robert I. Eachus wrote:
>
> In article <5lsjb3$bqc@bcrkh13.bnr.ca> kaz@vision.crest.nt.com (Kaz Kylheku) writes:
>
> > I would go as far as saying that ``software engineering'' is a hoax.
>
> Huh?
>
> > Developing a correct program is much more akin to theorem proving than
> > engineering activity...
>
> Ah, programming is not software engineering. Software engineering
> is all that other stuff which successful projects do that results in
> projects being successful.
[Excellent example deleted.]
I find that programming and software engineering are often confused,
even by those who teach them. Anyone can learn to program, but only
about 2% can become software engineers (in my experience). This is not a
problem in and of itself. But I find that many organizations think that
anyone who can program is qualified to specify requirements, architect
and design software, and so on. That is a problem.
I also find that many organizations expect a new graduate to be able to
do these things "out of the box." The same organizations expect to have
to train new graduate engineers in other disciplines for a year or more
before they can do the equivalent.
--
Jeff Carter PGP:1024/440FBE21
Auntie-spam reply-to; try ( carter @ innocon . com )
"Now go away, or I shall taunt you a second time."
Monty Python & the Holy Grail
next prev parent reply other threads:[~1997-05-23 0:00 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 185+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
1997-05-15 0:00 Any research putting c above ada? Jon S Anthony
1997-05-15 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-15 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
[not found] ` <01bc6189$b074f500$LocalHost@xhv46.dial.pipex.com>
1997-05-16 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-16 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-18 0:00 ` Nick Roberts
1997-05-19 0:00 ` NOT about "c above ada" W. Wesley Groleau (Wes)
1997-05-19 0:00 ` Any research putting c above ada? Michael Norrish
1997-05-20 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-20 0:00 ` Michael Norrish
1997-05-20 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-20 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-20 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-21 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-21 0:00 ` Craig Franck
1997-05-22 0:00 ` Software Engineering is not a hoax... (was Re: Any research putting c above ada?) Robert I. Eachus
1997-05-22 0:00 ` Software Engineering and Dreamers Nick Roberts
1997-05-22 0:00 ` Tom Moran
1997-05-25 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-05-26 0:00 ` David Ray
1997-05-23 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-05-23 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-24 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-05-24 0:00 ` jason hummel
1997-05-25 0:00 ` Craig Franck
1997-05-26 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-26 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-05-27 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-27 0:00 ` Dann Corbit
1997-05-26 0:00 ` Craig Franck
1997-05-27 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-28 0:00 ` Fritz W Feuerbacher
1997-05-29 0:00 ` Craig Franck
1997-05-29 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-05-26 0:00 ` Fritz W Feuerbacher
1997-05-26 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-26 0:00 ` tstcroix
1997-05-27 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-05-27 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-28 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-05-31 0:00 ` Nick Roberts
1997-06-02 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-06-09 0:00 ` Ralph Silverman
1997-05-27 0:00 ` system
1997-05-27 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-28 0:00 ` Rich Miller
1997-05-28 0:00 ` Bryce Bardin
1997-05-28 0:00 ` Lawrence Kirby
1997-05-29 0:00 ` Matthew S. Whiting
1997-05-29 0:00 ` Nick Leaton
1997-05-28 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-27 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-28 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-05-28 0:00 ` Fritz W Feuerbacher
1997-05-29 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-05-29 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-30 0:00 ` Vibrating Bum-Faced Goats
1997-05-30 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-02 0:00 ` Mathew Hendry
1997-06-03 0:00 ` Matthew S. Whiting
1997-06-03 0:00 ` Spaceman Spiff
1997-06-03 0:00 ` John Winters
1997-06-02 0:00 ` Mathew Hendry
1997-06-03 0:00 ` Martin C. Carlisle
1997-06-08 0:00 ` Joe Charlier
1997-06-09 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-17 0:00 ` Nick Roberts
1997-06-04 0:00 ` John Winters
1997-06-06 0:00 ` Volker Hetzer
1997-06-06 0:00 ` Mathew Hendry
1997-06-08 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-09 0:00 ` Jonathan Guthrie
1997-06-09 0:00 ` Mathew Hendry
1997-06-11 0:00 ` Jonathan Guthrie
1997-06-11 0:00 ` Mathew Hendry
1997-06-11 0:00 ` Crocodiles [was: Re: Software Engineering and Dreamers] Anonymous
1997-06-11 0:00 ` Spam Hater
1997-06-12 0:00 ` Anonymous
1997-06-11 0:00 ` Off topic: Crocodiles Mukesh Prasad
1997-06-11 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-11 0:00 ` Mukesh Prasad
1997-06-12 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-06-17 0:00 ` Software Engineering and Dreamers Nick Roberts
1997-06-09 0:00 ` Craig Franck
1997-06-08 0:00 ` Jason Shankel
1997-06-09 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-08 0:00 ` John G. Volan
1997-06-09 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-09 0:00 ` SE, Dreamers, and on and on and on W. Wesley Groleau (Wes)
1997-06-09 0:00 ` Software Engineering and Dreamers John G. Volan
1997-06-10 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
[not found] ` <19970606.49CA70..12B91@ae124.du.pipex.com>
1997-06-07 0:00 ` Lawrence Kirby
1997-06-09 0:00 ` W. Wesley Groleau (Wes)
1997-06-10 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-10 0:00 ` W. Wesley Groleau (Wes)
1997-06-07 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-08 0:00 ` Mathew Hendry
1997-06-03 0:00 ` Ed Prochak - Woodland Consultants
1997-06-03 0:00 ` Craig Franck
1997-06-02 0:00 ` Nick Roberts
1997-06-07 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-02 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-06-02 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
[not found] ` <01bc7042$609289e0$cb61e426@DCorbit.solutionsiq.com>
1997-06-03 0:00 ` Off topic response to an off topic message--> was:Re: " H. Blakely Williford
1997-06-04 0:00 ` Craig Franck
1997-06-03 0:00 ` Spaceman Spiff
1997-06-09 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-06-09 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-09 0:00 ` Ceri Stagg
1997-06-12 0:00 ` Philip Brashear
1997-07-21 0:00 ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
1997-06-10 0:00 ` Vibrating Bum-Faced Goats
1997-06-04 0:00 ` Vibrating Bum-Faced Goats
1997-06-04 0:00 ` �Stephen!
1997-06-05 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-06-06 0:00 ` Volker Hetzer
[not found] ` <01bc7a5b$9ccdd900$21320f9b@mindlin>
[not found] ` <5o7ahj$oos$1@news12.gte.net>
1997-06-18 0:00 ` Philip Hindman
1997-06-18 0:00 ` Spam Hater
1997-06-18 0:00 ` Spaceman Spiff
1997-06-19 0:00 ` Stephan Wilms
1997-06-20 0:00 ` Spam Hater
1997-06-19 0:00 ` Mukesh Prasad
1997-06-19 0:00 ` Craig Franck
1997-06-18 0:00 ` Spaceman Spiff
1997-06-19 0:00 ` Steve Howard
1997-06-19 0:00 ` Anonymous
1997-06-20 0:00 ` Spam Hater
1997-06-21 0:00 ` Spaceman Spiff
1997-06-23 0:00 ` root
1997-06-22 0:00 ` Alicia Carla Longstreet
1997-06-19 0:00 ` Stephan Wilms
1997-06-24 0:00 ` David Thornley
1997-06-06 0:00 ` Fritz W Feuerbacher
1997-06-06 0:00 ` Joe Charlier
1997-06-04 0:00 ` S. Norby
1997-05-30 0:00 ` Vibrating Bum-Faced Goats
1997-05-23 0:00 ` Mark Allen Framness
1997-05-23 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-23 0:00 ` Mark Allen Framness
1997-05-24 0:00 ` Bill Anderson
1997-05-23 0:00 ` Jeff Carter [this message]
1997-05-23 0:00 ` Software Engineering is not a hoax... (was Re: Any research putting c above ada?) William M.Gordon
1997-05-23 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-23 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-05-25 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-23 0:00 ` John Bode
1997-05-25 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-25 0:00 ` Craig Franck
1997-05-25 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-05-26 0:00 ` Software Engineering is not a hoax Laurent Gasser
1997-05-26 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-27 0:00 ` Scott Stanchfield
1997-05-27 0:00 ` Dan Evens
1997-05-27 0:00 ` Scott Stanchfield
1997-05-27 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-27 0:00 ` Scott Stanchfield
1997-05-29 0:00 ` Dean Runzel
1997-05-29 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-30 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-05-30 0:00 ` John G. Volan
1997-05-29 0:00 ` Scott Stanchfield
1997-05-30 0:00 ` Lord Shaman
1997-05-28 0:00 ` Alan Bowler
1997-05-29 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-24 0:00 ` Software Engineering is not a hoax... (was Re: Any research putting c above ada?) W. Wesley Groleau (Wes)
1997-05-24 0:00 ` Fritz W Feuerbacher
1997-05-24 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-12 0:00 ` Software Engineering is not a hoax Keith Shillington
1997-06-12 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-06-17 0:00 ` brucemo
1997-06-17 0:00 ` Richard Turner
1997-06-17 0:00 ` Spam Hater
1997-06-17 0:00 ` Richard Turner
1997-06-12 0:00 ` Ralph Silverman
[not found] ` <33859489.7FB8@spam.inno <5nplh1$276@nntp.seflin.org>
1997-06-13 0:00 ` Paul Mesken
1997-06-13 0:00 ` Michael Tippach
1997-05-20 0:00 ` Any research putting c above ada? Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-20 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-20 0:00 ` Les Hazlewood
1997-05-20 0:00 ` Newsthread integrity Nick Roberts
1997-05-20 0:00 ` Any research putting c above ada? Jason A Cunningham
1997-05-21 0:00 ` Stephan Wilms
1997-05-21 0:00 ` Jason A Cunningham
1997-05-16 0:00 ` T Wheeley
1997-05-16 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
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